This wouldn't be either. The US isn't going to send in troops in a preemptive strike.
What would follow probably would be though, at great cost to everyone involved.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
NBC News: U.S. May Launch Strike If North Korea Reaches For Nuclear Trigger
- Thread starter iMax
- Start date
- Status
This wouldn't be either. The US isn't going to send in troops in a preemptive strike.
What would follow probably would be though, at great cost to everyone involved.
Even if that were true, I'd rather it happen with a competent President calling the shots. Not Donald fucking Trump.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Dang N.Korea, will they or wont they?!
If they do testing, well that strike group is there to give more options than dickwaving.
It's just with irrational actors like Kim I don't think you can merely disable his launch pad with a bomb and him not go absolutely ballistic and blow Seoul to shit with artillery.
If they do testing, well that strike group is there to give more options than dickwaving.
It's just with irrational actors like Kim I don't think you can merely disable his launch pad with a bomb and him not go absolutely ballistic and blow Seoul to shit with artillery.
Mammoth Jones
Member
It's gonna come to a head eventually. The situation is not sustainable.
Probably not, you didn't specify.
Milly Osworth
Member
This whole North Korea thing suddenly being the center of attention is weird. I bet ISIS is like "Guys, pay attention to us!!!"
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
What I am getting at is that the pretense for preemptively attacking NK is that they have nukes that can hit the US but what good are those Nukes if they can't even get them up in the air?
Frankly, the less media airtime people give ISIS the better.
^They will get them up in the air one day; that would be the pretense. Not that invading is a good answer.
Coriolanus
Banned
Saying that Jong Un isn't a rational actor does not make it so. What has he done to show that he isn't one? Because he kinda has 5+ years of rule showing that he's quite decent at not being batshit crazy, but i mightve missed something.
Yarp. That was hella weird. Especially that bit about SK suppressing internal dissent. Inconclusive af tho. Either way, that's 2010 so it'd be back when Papa Porcupine Haircut was in power.
Yep, several Japanese destroyers to join up with the U.S. Carl Vinson strike group.
I don't think that's the pretense, they are a risk to their neighboring countries namely South Korea. All of which are our allies.
Just_myles
Member
I see what you are saying. This is in regards to the South who will no doubt receive the brunt of any retaliation(should it come to that). They are a huge economy and we do depend on them (Samsung and LG are huge). I would think they would have more to say on the matter. Has there been anything?
NyMartin90
Member
This image always makes me think of what must be going on in Kim Jong Un's head. This from the missile test a few years ago.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
this is only true if you believe we can't live with a NK that can strike the US with nukes. We seems like quite a leap. Tons of other nations have nukes that can reach the US
scotcheggz
Member
People have been saying this for years about the north and yet it's still here. Mainly because the situation is complex as hell and trump wading in is not the solution.
The man's a fucking idiot.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Well they did get hit by a very big bomb today so maybe they don't want the US to pay any more attention to them right now.
Brings back memories of King Jong-Il Looking At Things memes
This image always makes me think of what must be going on in Kim Jong Un's head. This from the missile test a few years ago.
"Where did all my cheese go?"
AnathemicOne
Banned
Okay, let's get into this, but first let me clarify a few things here. I admit, making a personal attack on you was an error on my part but I cannot exactly write out cohesive arguments provided with references on mobile GAF on my commute back home compared to now on my actual desktop with all the necessary tools at my disposal, however with that said, this is what you originally replied to my argument with...
Followed by...
Forgive me if I got a tad bit irritated responding to someone who didn't even bother living up to their onus of providing references in the first place. When arguing with someone you don't tell them to "look it up yourself", I ask you have common courtesy in this because if not, why should I?
But hey, you did provide a reference later on in..
Which is nice, and I thank you for it, but ultimatum the article I find in poor taste as it's ultimately a case of semantics, which it admits too
And waving aside the catastrophe of what would happen in a potential conflict with vague descriptions of "unknown"
But I agree that hyperbole isn't exactly the best way to construct an argument in the case of what I've done. But on the same coin, simply arguing to pre-emptive strikes shouldn't be on the table as well. With that in mind, however, I still hold on to my description of "flattened" in not just a literal sense but an economic sense (which is what I've been emphasizing the majority of what I've posted in this thread).
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-no-one-in-korea-wants-war-2013-4
But let's go into my statements on artillery range and that you should "look up a map" yeah?
Here's the map showing a distance of 121 miles between the two capitals of opposing nations with a distance of Seoul being just 35 miles off the DMZ. As a marine brat I've been graced to visit Seoul a few times; the distance isn't that far. To continue more on the anecdote, I live in suburban California, I drive daily 40 miles to my college campus back and forth at an average of 85 mph, it takes 45 mins to make the trip on car at best and 1 hour at worst due to traffic. Again, by car.
As for NK's artillery capabilities...
NK getting new tech is a cause for alarm to be sure, but advocating preemptive strikes is just as bad if not worse as it serves to throw precedented tactics of appeasement over the half a century out the window in favor of blind warmongering under our contemporary dumbass-in-chief just waiting for an opportunity to wave his military dick around.
I'm a marine brat, I've extended family and friends living in Seoul and Japan, and I'm an Asian american. Anecdote, sure, but I'm well aware of East Asian politics and military capabilities of both sides in accordance with knowledge of the DMZ. While you may claim my argument of "flattening" Seoul to be hyperbolic, I'm under the impression you are failing to recognize the ramifications on a global scale if war were to erupt in East Asia in a NK/SK conflict; economies would be shattered and a power vacuum would come into play, for all intents and purposes "flattening" is an apt descriptor of how this would play out if albeit biased on my part.
And I sincerely doubt you are putting enough effort in argument for even for me to go through constructing this argumentative post. So thanks for riling me up for no reason.
This is what I am wondering now. I was under the impression they can't.
But I just heard on Fox News - they can already hit Japan with a nuke. He said we would definitely preemptively strike if we thought they were gassing up a missle with a nuke on top of it. This was an ex-military dude idk the rank. He also said to "win" we would pretty much have to nuke them. All the simulations they ran we lost a conventional war.
Idk man we just had 2 pretty big middle fingers to the world. Trying not to hype myself up but it's getting pretty fucking tense.
"This isnt going to end well"
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
littleworm
Member
Well, I wouldn't consider two to be tons, unless we want to count our allies France and the UK. Also it wasn't like we had much of a choice in regards to the Soviet Union and China at the time they were developing its own nuclear programs.
The Salt Life
Banned
Sure but they are not going to use them. Everyone has just in case insurance.
People always joke that Trump is going to nuke someone, when in reality if NK had the technology they would have been nuking anyone around them for decades now.
China, Russia, Japan, SK....
It would be cool if the while world united against them.
Jong-Un doesn't have a death wish.
LookAtMeGo
Member
Yeah WWIII would be so awesome
Coriolanus
Banned
Nah b, that was good readin' regardless of that.
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
ThatStupidLion
Gold Member
This moab in afganistan really seems like a trial run for
Nk. This preemptive crap feel a lot like iraqs WMD bs we were handed....
...trump has bombed nk because they had evidence of a nuclear detonation... 18 months later.... word has come about that Nk never had nuclear capabilities in the first place and Un was having the entire population jump at the same time to create seismic activity
Nk. This preemptive crap feel a lot like iraqs WMD bs we were handed....
...trump has bombed nk because they had evidence of a nuclear detonation... 18 months later.... word has come about that Nk never had nuclear capabilities in the first place and Un was having the entire population jump at the same time to create seismic activity
gutterboy44
Member
I get the feeling the MOAB strike was a test for bombing the hardened artillary positions in NK aimed at SK.
Seth Enosh
Member
Israel has fought multiple Arab countries and won several times before and they are definitely prepared to do it again. Syria's army and the Iranian irregulars are completely committed to the battles against the "moderate rebels", Al Qaeda, and ISIS anyway and they can't do anything against Israel. Israel has launched several bombing raids with impunity on Syrian territory in the past few years, Syria knows they can't do anything.
Just what are you talking about?
Yeah, but the difference between NK and other nations is that NK is the only one (in recent years) that openly threatens to use them against the U.S.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
NK has been doing that since the 50's though. They're not going to kill themselves.
Why the hell would they do that? Thanks for contributing to the insane paranoia about countries wanting to strike Israel and apparently commit suicide
AnathemicOne
Banned
Atleast someone appreciates my effort; it annoys me to no end having people talk about military conflict in simple "Yeah we should totes do it!" arguments hinting strongly at a lack of knowledge of recorded military conflicts in the past and contemporary knowledge of what it is today. You don't even have to be a military brat
Though it does help.
Xyrmellon
Member
Russia and China, or the Soviet Union, did not constantly threaten to nuke population centers, murder the President, or premptively strike the mainland. That's why the "We will bury you" speech by Krushchev was such a big deal.
The Salt Life
Banned
You don't think NK would launch nukes if they could? They live in a different reality than our own.
computers putin'
Member
I said I'd be good with dying as long as I get to finish FF15 and Persona 5, just give me one more month to wrap up Persona 5 please....
cooljeanius
Member
I could never play Defcon because it felt too much like a real interface that could actually be used to launch nuclear weapons. Felt like I was in something out of Ender's Game
The people are, but their leaders aren't. Jung-Un needs his cheese and western movies.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
A literal final fantasy.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
No, they want them to gain leverage. With nukes then they can control negotiations with US/China
Launching a nuclear attack would mean the death of that nation. No. They're crazy, but they're not crazy stupid.
NyMartin90
Member
exactly, for NK nukes=diplomatic survival guaranteed.
I honestly wonder if we would be able to have better negotiations if Kim Jong Il didn't die.
I admit that retorting with "look up missile defense system" was not a great idea.
My only real point was that the flattening of Seoul was not guaranteed, given a preemptive attack on NK.
Maybe that was nit-picky of me, but I get irritated when people confuse an educated and valid opinion with concrete fact.
We don't know what would happen, period, that's what's scary about the situation.
I appreciate your perspective and the time you put into your argument/post, I read all of it.
No. You are essentially brainwashed into thinking 'crazy kim' can't wait to nuke the world.
NK has been very clear about what they want: protect their country and regime from US coup/invasion.
Steeped in a Sea of Games
Member
They rattle their saber to try and look relevant to their people and to keep others off their back. Even if secretly they want to launch nukes, they know they'd be wiped off the face of the earth if they did. Most dictators want to stay in power, not martyr themselves pointlessly.
I'm... not so sure about that. Gonna need to see the receipts.
- Status