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NeoGAF's Essential RPGs - 2015 edition

M

MissDeviling

Member
Ralemont said:
How did TWEWY handle random encounters? I haven't played it.
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There were no random encounters. Normally you traverse on a map with just people...:
29-capture_17092011_210327.png
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...but you can press a button on the bottom right of your screen to enter a plane with monster encounters. On this plane, enemies are represented by symbols that you tap to engage with them (you can tap multiple enemies to battle them consecutively):
1-image046.png
Click to expand...

There were also sliders on the main menu so that you can alter your level (which affects the drop rate) and game difficulty (which affects the types of drops you get).
 
K

kswiston

Member
Raggie said:
I'd say the most influential RPG of all ime is Akalabeth - World of Doom. Not something I'd recommend for anyone but those who are really interested in gaming history.
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Again, even a list of influential games would come down to opinion. Akalabeth is earlier, but I don't necessarily think that it inspired as many copycats/offshoots as Wizardry and Ultima (especially U3) did a couple years later. You could have the same argument about Dune 2 vs Command and Conquer or Warcraft. To me, first doesn't necessarily mean most influential.

Of course, some of this is complicated by the fact that Akalabeth was Richard Garriott's first attempt at a CRPG, so obviously it influenced his later Ultima games.
 
S

skLaFarebear

Member
Ralemont said:
What did Xenogears and TWEWY do that has influenced later RPGs?
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I don't know why you're asking me that. Essential just doesn't mean influence. They both brought something completely unique in their gameplay and/or narrative that you won't find in older games before it(and in twewy's case after), which is why they're essential to play.
 
R

Reveirg

Member
Ralemont said:
Have any games outside the Xeno series implemented the separate battle system method? What about the rest of it? Not saying there are none but no examples come to mind and I'd appreciate some help. :)
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Skies of Arcadia, Nostalgia, Mario & Luigi, White Knight Chronicles, and the 3 Xenosaga's along with Xenoblade X (even though those are actually spiritual successor). And that's just on the top of my head.
I'm fairly sure it hadn't been done in a JRPG before Xenogears, but I could be wrong. Either way, Xenogears has been cited many times as influence by devs, mostly indies.

Skill learning mechanic through usage has been done countless times since, though again, maybe someone did it before Xenogears, but I can't remember of any.

Face button combos have been in a few turn-based jRPGs since, namely Legend of Legaia and its sequel. Even the likes of Xenosaga 2, Shadow Hearts 2 & 3 and Lightning Returns owe some of their battle system to Xenogears.

You could also consider TWEWY as an influence on games like Devil Survivor, but Atlus will answer that S-E are the ones who borrowed from Persona. (They've already said it actually)
 
F

felipepepe

Banned
Raggie said:
I'd say the most influential RPG of all ime is Akalabeth - World of Doom. Not something I'd recommend for anyone but those who are really interested in gaming history.
Click to expand...
It was a pioneer, introducing the concept of overworld/dungeon & first-person view when dungeon-crawling, but calling it teh most influential RPG of all time is an exaggeration.

What I would accept, however, is saying that Richard Garriott is the most influential RPG designer of all time.
 
K

kswiston

Member
#16-20 are up. That's the last that I have time for at the moment. I might be able to update #21-25 tonight. Sorry again for the slower completion this time around.
 
K

kswiston

Member
Thores said:
Oh dang, welcome to the Top 20, Earthbound!
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Notice that the cost this time around is 1/5 instead of 5/5 thanks to the virtual console re-release. Probably had something to do with it :p

Actually, on that note, the majority of the top 20 are available for $20 or less thanks to digital distribution. When I started doing this thread, most of the must play games were $30-150. It's pretty hard to get people to try new things when the price of a used copy is more than the price of the latest AAA release. Digital Distribution is a huge boon for the genre.
 
W

wmlk

Member
A favourites list is much better anyway. It speaks to the audience in the forums, and it also accounts for games that have a better whole than the sum of its parts (ie. NieR).
 
Notorious_Roy

Notorious_Roy

Member
kswiston said:
Notice that the cost this time around is 1/5 instead of 5/5 thanks to the virtual console re-release. Probably had something to do with it :p

Actually, on that note, the majority of the top 20 are available for $20 or less thanks to digital distribution. When I started doing this thread, most of the must play games were $30-150. It's pretty hard to get people to try new things when the price of a used copy is more than the price of the latest AAA release. Digital Distribution is a huge boon for the genre.
Click to expand...

Yup, because of that re-release I was finally able to enjoy the game without some of the less legal options. It really deserves its spot in the top 20 overall.
 
G

Giran

Member
ilium said:
after further reflection (i.e. yelling at clouds) i think my problem with the top 10 simply comes down to semantics.
if we'd change essential to something like favorite i could live with that.
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That's the way I've always looked at it. Neogaf's being the operative part. What ends up being essential for this particular community is what the community loves. I consider it a simple popularity poll, not some genre study and guide, and looking at most of the lists I feel the majority of the voters had the same idea.
 
A

Aaronrules380

Member
I don't get the point on voting based on influence for a list called "essential". I see essential as being the must play experiences. A game can be extraordinarily influential, but that doesn't mean it's still worth playing so many years later. People who want to judge based on influence feel to me like they just want to keep their old nostalgic favorites on top by making criteria that by definition puts newer stuff at a major disadvantage even if the game is better, while putting older stuff at a much bigger advantage even if the game is ass by today's standards
 
D

Dracandros

Banned
kswiston said:
#16-20 are up. That's the last that I have time for at the moment. I might be able to update #21-25 tonight. Sorry again for the slower completion this time around.
Click to expand...

It's fine and it's still a treat to see. Thank you for your work!

Most of my choices were based on the idea that the game was absolutely necessary, but decided to make the criteria if it was absolutely necessary for either myself or gaming history regardless of how votes it was going to get. Still, if I didn't think the game was at least well above average for what I wanted in a game it didn't make the list. That's why a game like Gateway to Apshai or Warrior of Ras: Dunzhin didn't make it.

Perhaps I'm stuck on particulates as well and in the end it's totally cool.
 
A

AndrewPL

Member
Awesome thread, can't wait to see the top50.

I've been meaning to play through a few of these, BG2, Chrono Trigger and Xenoblade especially.

I think I may try and tackle all 50 during 2015!
 
M

Mauricio_Magus

Banned
Paper Mario: TTYD and Earthbound being in the top 20 makes me happier about the list, it's criminal to not have them in any kind of best or essential RPGs of all time list.
 
R

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Shocked that Mass Effect 1 is so high. Unpolished, tons of filler, story ends on a down note, buggy.
 
A

AerialAir

Banned
Been wanting to play Chrono Trigger for a long time. What's the best console to play it on though? All the platforms I have are 3DS and Android.
 
Bl@de

Bl@de

Member
Top 20 up and still no Morrowind? What is this? Some kind of joke?
And just because I'm curious: Did Wizardry 8 even get a point?
 
G

gngf123

Member
Bl@de said:
Top 20 up and still no Morrowind? What is this? Some kind of joke?
And just because I'm curious: Did Wizardry 8 even get a point?
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, it got precisely that. One point.

It did get a couple of unranked mentions on top, though.
 
T

TI82

Banned
Otakumegane said:
As much as I love the game, Awakening doesn't belong.

That Xenoblade hate. It wasn't perfect but it showed actual attempt at an evolution that JRPGs have been lacking for a long ass time. It deserves to be on there.
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What evoltuion? Mmo-lite combat? Final fantasy XII already did that. Nothing about xenoblade was new to the genre...
 
T

threelights

Member
naw said:
will never understand gaf's obsession with ff12
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FFXII showed how the JRPG evolution should be. Xenoblade came afterwards and confirmed that. Now they just need to find a good battle system.

The cast was good too in FFXII (except for Vaan/Penelo, but even they were not bad, just bland). Writing and VA was also way ahead of other games in the genre. And I guess people liked the Gambit system too...

I'd say it's essential, it shows how modern JRPGs should be like.
 
K

kswiston

Member
#21-25 are up now. Thanks to decoyplatypus for the Divinity Original Sin summary.

This is my final update for the day. I'm not sure if I will have any time to work on the thread again until next weekend, but expect more by then at the latest.
 
J

Jamix012

Member
Based on the list so far
Modern WRPGs are up
Atlus RPGS Up
CRPGs Down
Final Fantasy Down
and Pokemon Down.

Exciting list so far. Very surprised to see FFX drop so far despite the HD remake.
 
G

ghibli99

Member
Thanks for doing this! It was fun to participate and see the results. Crazy to see some of those jumps, but equally interesting to see how many stayed the same or were just within 1 or 2 of last year's.

As for the "favorite" vs. "essential" debate... aren't they pretty much the same when it comes to games? Our favorites inevitably are what we would want any fan of said genre to play, because they're so good, unique, or classic. That's how I see it, anyway.

Jamix012 said:
Exciting list so far. Very surprised to see FFX drop so far despite the HD remake.
Click to expand...
I can't get into the HD remake. I loved it back in the early '00s, but just can't hang with it today. While the graphics, soundtrack, and battle system are top-notch, there are a good number of elements that are lacking and tedious. Chrono Trigger, on the other hand, still holds up amazingly well for being 20 years old.
 
P

Pappasman

Member
Its still shocking to me that people think the Mass Effect series is good. Wow.

Persona 3
Mass Effect
Fire Emblem: Awakening

all have no place in the top ten.
 
S

Shengar

Member
Persona 3 jump is so fucking huge o_O
Also GoldSilver/HGSS being the only Pokemon game that managed to get into big 25 is very fitting since they are the best Pokemon for their time of release (and now too).
 
L

LiveFromKyoto

Member
Never saw this thread before today, wish I could have voted. I wouldn't have ranked them in the exact same order, but overall I've gotta say GAF has good taste in Final Fantasies. IX & XII handily beating VII & X is good.

Had I made it in, off the top of my head my list would've included:

Suikoden II
Valkyria Chronicles
Morrowind
Final Fantasy XII
Draqon Warrior (the very first, still as perfectly constructed rpg as I've ever played).


I like Persona 4 a lot, but my memory card got trashed & I lost all my progress & had to restart. Can't make a call until I've finished it.
 
K

kswiston

Member
EDIT; Actually, here are the top 10 sixteen bit console RPGs by points:

1) Chrono Trigger
2) Final Fantasy VI
3) Earthbound
4) Super Mario RPG
5) Dragon Quest 5
6) Secret of Mana
7) Final Fantasy IV
8) Final Fantasy V
9) Lunar 2: Eternal Blue
10) Shining Force 2
 
C

Codeblue

Member
Raging Spaniard said:
Shocked that Mass Effect 1 is so high. Unpolished, tons of filler, story ends on a down note, buggy.
Click to expand...

I don't think Mass Effect is a very good game. Like you said, tons of filler, exploration being tedious and unrewarding, I didn't care for many of the characters, but it built the foundation for something amazing. It was a mediocre game bursting with potential that could be uncovered with some polish and variety. It laid the foundation for something that could become my favorite RPG of all time. Then Bioware pissed it all away in Mass Effect 2.

I'm still so mad at that series.
 
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