They are also easily accessible in term of price and platform.
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NeoGAF's Essential RPGs - 2015 edition
- Thread starter kswiston
- Start date
They are also easily accessible in term of price and platform.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Do people need to be reminded again that this was going to be a popularity contest? Unless you want a top 10 list to be kept objective you would need to keep it to RPG experts.
Even curators have their own set of preference, though they will be objective in their preferred games (the good that is).
But yeah, this is a popularity poll, which mean the most accessible and played game will garner more votes despite an existence of better contemporaries.
Dracandros
Banned
I will say that you wouldn't catch me dead saying that Baldur's Gate 2 or KotOR or Morrowind or FFT aren't good games. I know they are, but in the end I did not have that much fun playing them or know that I wouldn't have that much fun playing them.
Mass Effect 1, however, was fun to play despite its flaws because the parts that were good were just simply great (provided that I was playing an Adept-like character but let's not go there). It also qualified enough, to me, as an absolutely necessary game in gaming history and as well above average.
I have never played a game that didn't have flaws. I can just forgive some flaws more than others.
EDIT: I probably have a decent defense for ME1, but I don't understand how it's that high either. There is a great chance that it wouldn't make it back on my essential list in 2 years.
Mass Effect 1, however, was fun to play despite its flaws because the parts that were good were just simply great (provided that I was playing an Adept-like character but let's not go there). It also qualified enough, to me, as an absolutely necessary game in gaming history and as well above average.
I have never played a game that didn't have flaws. I can just forgive some flaws more than others.
EDIT: I probably have a decent defense for ME1, but I don't understand how it's that high either. There is a great chance that it wouldn't make it back on my essential list in 2 years.
I know the Top 10 has some psychological weight, but Mass Effect has been doing well here for years. #13 in the 2012 and 2013 lists, and #6 in the 2011 list. The only real change this time around is that it slipped ahead of PST and Baldur's Gate 2 by a few points. A lot of people on GAF love Mass Effect.
Augemitbutter
Member
yea, it's a pop contest. i'm sure most people in here haven't even finished 10 RPG.
awakening is no more than a good entry level srpg with flat maps. play the other FE and revote P3/4 are better, but try playing through the main series first and try the other spinoffs like digital devil saga and devil summoner. much better. they didn't have an anime to support them, that is their biggest downfall.
awakening is no more than a good entry level srpg with flat maps. play the other FE and revote
P3/4 are better, but try playing through the main series first and try the other spinoffs like digital devil saga and devil summoner. much better. they didn't have an anime to support them, that is their biggest downfall.yea, it's a pop contest. i'm sure most people in here haven't even finished 10 RPG.
awakening is no more than a good entry level srpg with flat maps. play the other FE and revote
That's getting a bit elitist. Plenty of people have played other SMT games and still prefer Persona. It's not like the games fared poorly 5 years ago before all the animes and related media. The fact that some people didn't vote for the games you would have voted for also doesn't point to them having no experience in the genre (unless you think that Robert at Zeboyd or Dark Schala have no experience in the genre, both voted for Persona 4 either this year or the year prior). Personally, I prefer actual party members over a party of captured monsters in JRPGs. I can still enjoy good games despite that mechanic, but it does color my overall impression of a game. Everyone has their own set of preferences.
Augemitbutter
Member
oh, it is elitist. that's the conclusion i get while monitoring these listwars. no need to get upset at results, when it's clear the pop contest always comes out at the end. be cautious if you see a list full of new games. it's more fun to check individual lists anyway.
hint: i'm not upset. just trying to explain.
Admiral Woofington
Member
yea, it's a pop contest. i'm sure most people in here haven't even finished 10 RPG.
awakening is no more than a good entry level srpg with flat maps. play the other FE and revote
I've played plenty of rpgs and have tried other SMT titles, and I still like P4G the best. I liked the sim aspects of it and probably was what brought it up as high as it did, what can I say.
I checked over your personal list of games, and it is full of many of my all time favourites. However, I can see why titles like Panzer Dragoon Saga, Lunar:SSSC, and Valkyrie Profile have trouble getting votes. 1) they are 15-20 years old, and 2) they aren't that easy to get a hold of. If you wanted to play Panzer Dragoon Saga, and could get past the really dated visuals, you are looking at a $175-200 investment or piracy.
I am hoping that Suikoden 2 starts to receive more love now that it is available on PSN.
Maybe if those otherwise lovely banners in the OP didn't include the arrows for yearly change people would focus less on the ordering (who am I kidding, of course people would still focus on it).
But still, people ought to think about how really meaningless the ordering is for a vote consisting of random ballots of varying quality and effort from a tiny <200 subsample of GAF people who noticed and decided to participate in the thread. Looking at yearly trends is even weirder when the raw number of votes each game gets is so small (think about how few people would need to vote differently to wildly change the ordering past the top ten or even top five) and the scoring system is different this year to boot.
Basically people should follow kwiston's advice about the overall results just being for fun and pay more attention to individual ballots. I was keeping track of ballots I liked earlier in the thread, maybe I'll post my list of lists later if I finish going through it.
But still, people ought to think about how really meaningless the ordering is for a vote consisting of random ballots of varying quality and effort from a tiny <200 subsample of GAF people who noticed and decided to participate in the thread. Looking at yearly trends is even weirder when the raw number of votes each game gets is so small (think about how few people would need to vote differently to wildly change the ordering past the top ten or even top five) and the scoring system is different this year to boot.
Basically people should follow kwiston's advice about the overall results just being for fun and pay more attention to individual ballots. I was keeping track of ballots I liked earlier in the thread, maybe I'll post my list of lists later if I finish going through it.
AntiFacebook
Member
What a terrible list.
merahputih
Neo Member
Waiting for this one to come:
http://finalfantasyxv.com/
From the trailer, looks like it's going to be a blast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COZ4VDy5D0A
http://finalfantasyxv.com/
From the trailer, looks like it's going to be a blast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COZ4VDy5D0A
Yeah can't say I'm a fan of the arrows because of that, though I do think adding "NEW" to games new to the list is fine.
derExperte
Member
Since I didn't vote I can't really complain but I find the total lack of Ultima 7 a bit disturbing.
well as others have told me this is a console centric board and most are pretty young, so i assume no one really played that. ¯\_(ツ
_/¯we're at top 25 now and still no elder scrolls. not even skyrim. interesting.
People asked for an indication of rank change in the last version of this thread, hence the arrows. Comparison of ranks between years would have still happened without them. Now those interested don't have to flip between multiple threads.
Ultima 7 was #66. It was 9-10 points short of the Top 50.
Ultima 7 was #66. It was 9-10 points short of the Top 50.
I think the rank change is fine. I like that it is there, if it wasn't I would probably open the old thread and do the comparisons myself.
For those interested, I've started to put together the alternative lists that I said I would. Still have a few votes to add but it is most of the way there.
For those interested, I've started to put together the alternative lists that I said I would. Still have a few votes to add but it is most of the way there.
maverick41
Neo Member
How is Suikoden 2 not in the Top 25? Feels like I saw it in a crapload of people's top 10 lists.
It is the most obvious example of a game either listed as essential or not listed at all, suggesting that the reason it isn't higher is simply because not enough people have played it.
For the record, it came number 1 on my list of games in this thread that got 3 point votes.
Being a digital only title in Europe and releasing a year late must have hurt IV mindshare.
Your post reminds me that I need to star Nocturne as soon as I finish the Digital Devil Saga duology
well as others have told me this is a console centric board and most are pretty young, so i assume no one really played that. ¯\_(ツ
we're at top 25 now and still no elder scrolls. not even skyrim. interesting.
Look at the bright side. Young and naive gamers like us may get some exposure to CRPGs thanks to this thread. Seeing those games so highly rated despite GAF userbase has me interested. I'll probably check them when I get a PC this year.
I am also quite curious about this too. I never had a chance to play it before it came out on PSN. Unfortunately that might be the very reason why it hasn't shown on the list yet.
archnemesis
Member
The Suikoden series was never that popular and three great games (2, 3, 5) are competing for the same points.
What I find concerning isn't just the overall ranking, it is the fact that it seems to be getting worse, not better.
Yeah, GAF is console-centric, and yeah, many people are younger, but these are only explanations for the result, they don't make it any better a list of "essential" RPGs.
Yeah, GAF is console-centric, and yeah, many people are younger, but these are only explanations for the result, they don't make it any better a list of "essential" RPGs.
AntiFacebook
Member
I don't think there is anyone who would place 3 or 5 above 2
archnemesis
Member
I did.
I put 5 on my list, though it was really hard to decide between that and 2.
Where would Suikoden end up if there was only one game?
I played through the original on PS2 in 2012, experiencing the entire second half of the game for the first time, and it's one of my honorable mentions. I think it still holds up really well.
There are multiple people in this thread who did just that. I definitely saw at least one vote for 3 in a list that didn't even mention 2.
EDIT: haha beaten
Waldo Lydecker
Member
These lists cannot change the fact that Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy IX and Dragon Quest VIII are still the best RPG's...
Augemitbutter
Member
yes, i get your point. i don't expect them to be recognized by the majority. except suikoden. suikoden got robbed.
Fedora Royale
Member
I know of a lot of people who rank it above 2. There was a thread on here a few years ago where people ranked the Suikoden games and the results were kinda surprising. I still think 2 was the run-away favorite, but 5 gets its fair share of love, too.
I know you explained it before but do you mind letting me know how it's getting worse specifically?
It isn't a matter of the list being right or wrong, it is more right for some than others. What is essential for you isn't necessarily essential for someone else. A list of essential RPGs made by someone who has played them for decades is not going to offer so much for an average gamer, or an average Gaffer.
The problem is that then it becomes a popularity contest rather than an essential list. The essential list is a culmination of the RPG gamers on GAF who create a legacy of what they have played and acts somewhat as a recommendation to those who have not played it.
A very simple example, just by looking in the top 20, is that we now have 2 Persona games and 2 Mass Effect games in there.
Regardless of what any of us thinks of their quality, having 2 times 2 representatives of extremely similar styles that close to the top clearly reduces the viability of the list as a representation of the entire RPG genre.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Also 2 Souls games.
i'm sorry for derailing the thread with my semantics babble :<
that's the right attitude
that's the right attitude
That is a fair argument. I think this is something we can definitely work towards. If kwiston doesn't do it again next year I want to possibly do it and make this change.
I don't think it would increase the list's usefulness if those who are less into RPGs are supposed to just shut up while being told what they're supposed to like by 'experts'. Less experienced RPG gamers (read: most people on this forum) are not going to like the same stuff as the experienced ones.
Is that even what it's supposed to do? It's a list that represents the tastes and experiences of NGaf, and that is all it can do.
Will be 3 once Bloodbourne arrives, assuming it isnt as devisive as 2.
This is not what I'm saying
Sorry, English is not my first language and I guess I misunderstand easily.
decoyplatypus
Member
I think it's just the nature of this poll that there's going to be some weird churn from year to year and a significant bias toward recent games. And that's before we even take into account the voting population's bias toward consoles, which probably increased since 2012-2013. PST and BG2 both dropped four spots from the last vote. But I agree with you that like titles cluttering the top 25 can be frustrating if you're looking for a list that represents the diversity of the genre.
On the bright side, time may sometimes reveal which titles have enduring appeal and which were only popular for a time. I can think of at least one change this year that is likely to make hardcore RPG fans happy.
Just for fun, if we drop the all but the highest-ranked game from any series, the list (so far) looks like this:
1. Chrono Trigger
2. Persona 4
3. Dark Souls
4. Final Fantasy 6
5. Xenoblade
6. Mass Effect
7. Fire Emblem: Awakening
8. Planescape: Torment
9. Fallout: New Vegas
10. Baldur's Gate 2
11. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
12. Earthbound
13. Final Fantasy Tactics (counting this as separate from mainline FF)
14. The Witcher 2
15. Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne
16. Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines
17. Divinity: Original Sin
18. Pokemon Gold/Silver
I like this version of the list! Very diverse and shows how broad the genre is.
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