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NeoGAF's Essential RPGs - 2015 edition

Durante

Member
Just for fun, if we drop the all but the highest-ranked game from any series, the list (so far) looks like this
That's actually exactly one of the ideas I had in mind. Make the highest-ranked game of each franchise represent it as a whole.

One issue with this and why I didn't try it myself is that it still penalizes franchises which have multiple titles of very similar quality, with different ones preferred by different people. On the other hand, options like e.g. simply summing up franchise votes don't work at all as they would lead to a huge preference for series with lots of entries. Looking at that list, I certainly like it more, even with that issue remaining unsolved.

An alternative (which sadly cannot be carried out just by looking at the existing results) would be to only allow votes for one entry per franchise per person, but then sum them up and use the individual votes to decide which game gets to represent the franchise.
 

ilium

Member
1. Chrono Trigger
2. Persona 4
3. Dark Souls
4. Final Fantasy 6
5. Xenoblade
6. Mass Effect
7. Fire Emblem: Awakening
8. Planescape: Torment
9. Fallout: New Vegas
10. Baldur's Gate 2
11. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door
12. Earthbound
13. Final Fantasy Tactics (counting this as separate from mainline FF)
14. The Witcher 2
15. Shin Megami Tensei 3: Nocturne
16. Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines
17. Divinity: Original Sin
18. Pokemon Gold/Silver

So much better.
 

Zach

Member
I thought people liked Demon's Souls more than Dark Souls... Huh...

Anyway, I wonder if I'll ever try playing one of those games again...
 
I thought people liked Demon's Souls more than Dark Souls... Huh...

Anyway, I wonder if I'll ever try playing one of those games again...

more people played Dark Souls because it's also available on 360 and PC and not just on PS3 like Demon's Souls, so that might be the reason.
 

kswiston

Member
The problem with capping votes at 1 game per series/franchise is that it rewards stuff like Planescape Torment or Xenoblade for being one offs. Also, even if you could probably just have Pokemon Gold/Silver represent all Pokemon games (since they basically play the same), what do you do with Final Fantasy or Fallout?
 

Durante

Member
The problem with capping votes at 1 game per series/franchise is that it rewards stuff like Planescape Torment or Xenoblade for being one offs. Also, even if you could probably just have Pokemon Gold/Silver represent all Pokemon games (since they basically play the same), what do you do with Final Fantasy or Fallout?
I don't think my alternative proposed above (only 1 vote per franchise per participant, summing up franchise votes to determine placement and using individual title votes to select the representative game of the franchise) would prefer one-offs, if anything I'd be concerned about the opposite.

Your point about series with massive style changes is clearly valid though, and an issue I don't see an easy answer for.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
You can simply tally up the games like we've been doing but all the ones that are in a franchise that didn't win would be mentioned in the rank. This way we get best of both worlds.

e.g. Persona 4 was the first Person game to rank (#2) and Persona 3 ranked as well but below P4. Persona 3 would get a mention in the Persona 4 section as a recognized title but not counted as a rank. .

I don't think my alternative proposed above (only 1 vote per franchise per participant, summing up franchise votes to determine placement and using individual title votes to select the representative game of the franchise) would prefer one-offs, if anything I'd be concerned about the opposite.

Your point about series with massive style changes is clearly valid though, and an issue I don't see an easy answer for.

That gets too complicated.
 

Jisgsaw

Member
I don't think my alternative proposed above (only 1 vote per franchise per participant, summing up franchise votes to determine placement and using individual title votes to select the representative game of the franchise) would prefer one-offs, if anything I'd be concerned about the opposite.

Your point about series with massive style changes is clearly valid though, and an issue I don't see an easy answer for.

I see two problems with this:
1) The series were each (or a lot) of iteration greatly differ from one to another (e.g. FF)
2) The series with lots of spin-offs (e.g. SMT). How do you decide which should stand as a standalone series, and which is a "simple" spin-off?
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
You should hear some of my other ideas!

It's an interesting game theory challenge to design a "fair", "democratic" voting system which produces the correct results ;)

Or it's because Dark Souls is a much better game :p

I don't think it's the correct results either.
 
You should hear some of my other ideas!

It's an interesting game theory challenge to design a "fair", "democratic" voting system which produces the correct results ;)

I think it's worth discussing a different format or voting rules (no matter how complicated) for the next iteration of the poll. I don't mean that as a criticism of kswiston's rules, which produce pretty good cumulative lists and, more importantly, give a clear picture of individual voters' tastes (valuable when searching for like-minded voters whose ballots I can use for recommendations). But precisely because we've got these polls in the archives any time we want to look at them, there's no harm in trying something different for at least one year. Not that I have any suggestions, mind you.
 
Would kswiston be amiable to posting the raw data he's collected in a digestible format (i.e. what ever he's using to tally the results,) so that others could analyse in the their fashion?

If not, well... the source for his tally is all right in this thread...
 

gngf123

Member
Would kswiston be amiable to posting the raw data he's collected in a digestible format (i.e. what ever he's using to tally the results,) so that others could analyse in the their fashion?

If not, well... the source for his tally is all right in this thread...

He won't be willing to do that until the list is complete. After that, who knows. He might do.
 
I checked over your personal list of games, and it is full of many of my all time favourites. However, I can see why titles like Panzer Dragoon Saga, Lunar:SSSC, and Valkyrie Profile have trouble getting votes. 1) they are 15-20 years old, and 2) they aren't that easy to get a hold of. If you wanted to play Panzer Dragoon Saga, and could get past the really dated visuals, you are looking at a $175-200 investment or piracy.

You also gotta keep in mind that each person is limited to 10-20 slots to cover THE ENTIRETY OF VIDEO & COMPUTER RPG HISTORY! None of those games you mentioned are no-brainer entries even if you have played them. Panzer Dragoon Saga is hideous and the gameplay (though very original) lacks depth due to the lack of a party, Lunar:SSSC isn't as good as the sequel IMO (which I did include on my list), and Valkyrie Profile is very much a love-it-or-hate-it sort of game. I've played all three and while they're all good games and I respect everyone's right to vote for them if they loved them, they just didn't make the cut for me.

2) The series with lots of spin-offs (e.g. SMT). How do you decide which should stand as a standalone series, and which is "simple" a spin-off?

I'd go with...

Core SMT (SMT1-4, Strange Journey, Soul Hackers, If)
Persona (P1, P2, P2-2, P3, P4, and you can throw in PQ in here too if you don't want to put it with EO)
Devil Survivor 1-2
DDS 1-2
The Action/RPG Raidou games

With the possible exception of DDS, each of those categories has a very distinct style to it that's different than the other varieties of SMT.

As far as FF goes, you could split up by generation (1-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10 & 12, 13+) since there are a fair bit of similarities within generations although that's not as cut & dry as the SMT example.
 

Durante

Member
I think it's worth discussing a different format or voting rules (no matter how complicated) for the next iteration of the poll. I don't mean that as a criticism of kswiston's rules, which produce pretty good cumulative lists and, more importantly, give a clear picture of individual voters' tastes (valuable when searching for like-minded voters whose ballots I can use for recommendations). But precisely because we've got these polls in the archives any time we want to look at them, there's no harm in trying something different for at least one year. Not that I have any suggestions, mind you.
Yeah, despite my joking, I think it's interesting to theorize. And I agree that kswiston has been doing a fantastic job!

You also gotta keep in mind that each person is limited to 10-20 slots to cover THE ENTIRETY OF VIDEO & COMPUTER RPG HISTORY!
That would also be one of my more out-there voting ideas: Unlimited slots. I believe it would only work in conjunction with the 1-game-per-franchise rule, but in that combination I don't see what harm it would do.
 
Glad y'all like Fire Emblem Awakening and I'm happy to see it on the list.

Now go play other Fire Emblem games.

Endorsed. I don't see much likelihood of Nintendo making fan favorites Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776* easily accessible to non-Japanese players, and Path of Radiance needs a re-print, but FE7 and Radiant Dawn are both fine options for new players moving on from Awakening.

*Next time, I swear it's taking the FE spot in my top ten. It's just too interesting.
 

gngf123

Member
My ideal voting would work entirely differently:

Unlimited votes.

1-5/10 rating system.

People list as many games they have played that they feel they can rate, 1 being terrible and the other end being great. Done via PM.

Averages are then taken, like how most websites do aggregate scoring.

Top list is then restricted to 1 game per series, unless there are notable huge almost genre shifting changes in gameplay.


Someone mentioned SMT above and how it would fit in a one game per series vote. Simple, I would separate the series just like how Japan does it. Persona, DDS, and SMT are all separate series.
 

Durante

Member
In my experience, anything other than a thumb-up/thumb-down voting system doesn't work. Most votes will always go towards the extremes, and in that process devalue any votes which are not extreme. And since thumb-down is too open for trolling that just leaves thumb-up.

The only major problem with thumb-up-only is that popularity will have a huge influence over the results. I can't really think of a good strategy to mitigate that.

One idea which is pretty insane -- and, sadly, we don't even remotely have the full data to actually try -- would be to do an unlimited slots thumb-up-only voting and then divide the result by the number of copies the game sold :p
 

Jisgsaw

Member
My ideal voting would work entirely differently:

Unlimited votes.

1-5/10 rating system.

People list as many games they have played that they feel they can rate, 1 being terrible and the other end being great. Done via PM.

Averages are then taken, like how most websites do aggregate scoring.

Top list is then restricted to 1 game per series, unless there are notable huge almost genre shifting changes in gameplay.

That'd be no fun, then you wouldn't be able to mock other people's list discuss the individual lists.

Someone mentioned SMT above. Simple, I would separate the series just like how Japan does it. Persona, DDS, and SMT are all separate series.

What about Devil Summoner? Strange Journey (that on's easy)? Devil Survivor? Demi-Kids (yeah, no one's gonna vote for that I guess).

And I'm not expert, but I guess other series are in the same boat (e.g. FF: Four Swords)

Edit: just saw Robert's response. Yeah I agree with tha separation (except for FF X and FF XII. Those two are like antinomes as far as jRPGs go), but it's not obvious per se.
I just wanted to point out that it's not necessarly easy to bundle up games in one series.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Glad y'all like Fire Emblem Awakening and I'm happy to see it on the list.

Now go play other Fire Emblem games.

4, 7, 9, or 10 would have been better choices but FEA is the newest and the best selling entry so what are you gonna do?
 

Steel

Banned
I thought people liked Demon's Souls more than Dark Souls... Huh...

Anyway, I wonder if I'll ever try playing one of those games again...

Having played Dark before Demon's, I think it's simply a matter of:

A: Which you played first: because whichever you play first is more challenging. The process of learning the basics of the controls and the combat is the best thing about the series, so people who played Dark Souls after Demons felt Dark was easier, but in my personal case, I felt like Demon's was far easier than Dark. Hell, I'd say demons is easier than Dark Souls 2.

B: Personal preference: The basic gameplay in Demons is much quicker paced, which to me felt slightly more generic(still good though), but to other people might be more appealing. The concept of being to access every area from the beginning vs the interconnected metroidvania of Dark Souls is also something that influences peoples views. Though I have to say, there were a lot of things I liked better about the look of the areas in Demon's Souls.

In either case, the people who played Demon's first are in the minority(First entry in series on only one console), so it's not surprising that more people like Dark even among those who have played both.

4, 7, 9, or 10 would haven been better choices but FEA is the newest and the best selling entry so what are you gonna do?

It's funny, FEA is the only fire emblem I've played and how easy it is completely turned me off from the series. I know people say the other ones are better, but I just can't.
 

Zach

Member
You should hear some of my other ideas!

It's an interesting game theory challenge to design a "fair", "democratic" voting system which produces the correct results ;)

Or it's because Dark Souls is a much better game :p

Possibly, I dunno. But you're saying if I ever try one of these games again, I should go with the first Dark Souls?

Having played Dark before Demon's, I think it's simply a matter of:

A: Which you played first: because whichever you play first is more challenging. The process of learning the basics of the controls and the combat is the best thing about the series, so people who played Dark Souls after Demons felt Dark was easier, but in my personal case, I felt like Demon's was far easier than Dark. Hell, I'd say demons is easier than Dark Souls 2.

B: Personal preference: The basic gameplay in Demons is much quicker paced, which to me felt slightly more generic(still good though), but to other people might be more appealing. The concept of being to access every area from the beginning vs the interconnected metroidvania of Dark Souls is also something that influences peoples views. Though I have to say, there were a lot of things I liked better about the look of the areas in Demon's Souls.

In either case, the people who played Demon's first are in the minority(First entry in series on only one console), so it's not surprising that more people like Dark even among those who have played both.

You're not helping my predicament. :)
 

Hansel

Banned
Glad y'all like Fire Emblem Awakening and I'm happy to see it on the list.

Now go play other Fire Emblem games.

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but I think Awakening is the one that feels the most like an RPG and that's why we're not seeing the others.
 
Edit: just saw Robert's response. Yeah I agree with tha separation (except for FF X and FF XII. Those two are like antinomes as far as jRPGs go), but it's not obvious per se.
I just wanted to point out that it's not necessarly easy to bundle up games in one series.

Actually, we might be thinking too hard into this. Same system as before but up the honorable mention limit from 10 to say 50. Have two lists - one like it is now & a second list that only includes one game from each series. For the secondary list, spin-offs can be counted as being their own series.

In either case, the people who played Demon's first are in the minority(First entry in series on only one console), so it's not surprising that more people like Dark even among those who have played both.

I played Demon's first (and the King's Field series before that) & I still think Dark Souls 1 is the best game that FROM has released to date.
 
It's funny, FEA is the only fire emblem I've played and how easy it is completely turned me off from the series. I know people say the other ones are better, but I just can't.

Which mode were you on? Bear in mind that the "normal" difficulty being a total snooze is a relatively recent problem for the series. It seems like Intelligent Systems decided after Radiant Dawn that it would be better to tone down the default difficulty and then offer more challenge modes beyond "Hard." Hard mode in Awakening is closer to what long-time Fire Emblem players are used to (although I happen to think the balance is still not quite right).

In any case, fear that you won't get a good challenge should not be the reason you miss out on Thracia 776. It's one of the meanest games I know.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Persona 3's jump is kind of weird. Maybe people wanted to try it after playing P4:Golden?
 

Lunar15

Member
4, 7, 9, or 10 would haven been better choices but FEA is the newest and the best selling entry so what are you gonna do?

I completely get why it is where it is, and I honestly have no problem with that. I'm not saying any other one should be ranked any higher. Just glad to see that FE now has some popularity behind it, and that there are plenty of other great games in the series to check out.

I know this isn't the point of the thread, but I think Awakening is the one that feels the most like an RPG and that's why we're not seeing the others.

I think it's almost entirely due to the number of people who have played awakening compared to the number of people who have played the rest coupled with recency. It's a fine game, but I don't know what makes it "more RPG-ish" than the other games in the series.
 

dreamlock

The hero Los Santos deserves
Just realized that I've played more than half of these games.

Great list. Kinda sad that Baldur's Gate 2 didn't make it into the top10 though, one of the best RPGs ever imo. Highly recommend it, but I can imagine it's hard to get into that kind of game for younger folks these days.
 

stn

Member
My personal list:

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind GOTY Ed.
Star Wars: KOTOR (1-2)
Mass Effect (1-3)
Deus-Ex 1
Deus-Ex: Human Revolution
Demon's Souls
Pokemon: Platinum
Pokemon: FireRed
Alpha Protocol
Dragon Age: Origins
Diablo 3: UEE
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

I've enjoyed all of those.
 

Steel

Banned
You're not helping my predicament. :)

Let me put it this way, and I'll try to be as unbiased as possible about the pluses and minus's:

Demon's Souls pluses:

More beautiful environments: I definitely feel that Demon's souls environments are much prettier than Dark Souls.

Tower of Latria: Creepy wardens ringing bells as you hear someone screaming "Help me" or weird opera singing in the distance all in a multi-level prison? Awesome.

Better hub and characters: You get a nice nexus from which you can go to any of the game's levels at any given time, and you can also interact with the people you bring in from the outside. It's cool looking, and functional.

Demon's Souls YMMV:

Tendency: I still don't quite get how this shit works. There are two types of tendency in the game based on player actions: World tendency and Player Tendency. I never really fully understood how to change it, but the game is easy mode when the tendency is white, harder when it's black. Also certain areas are blocked off when your tendency isn't right.

Human form: Human form allows you to do a variety of things including summoning in both demon's and dark. In demon's, not being human reduces your max health by half. However, your opportunities for becoming human in Demon's Souls are limited to: a very rare limited use item, and beating bosses.

Quicker paced combat: As I said in my previous post, I feel like it's a negative, but other people prefer it.

Item burden: On top of taking into account how much the equipment you have on weighs, the game also takes into account the weight of the items you carry with you. This results in a lot of dumping extra items and equipment back at the bank guy.

Mana: Instead of the limited spell uses in Dark Souls, demon's souls uses the more conventional mana stat for its spells.

Demon's Souls Minuses:
Summoning: Summoning other players in Demon's Souls requires a lot of things to coincide. You have to be human, the other player has to be in soul form, you have to be within a level threshold of the other player and you also have to be looking at the right spot at the right time. It's really more trouble than it's worth.



Dark Souls pluses:
Covenants: Basically guilds that you can get into and increase your rank in for nice stuff. Adds an extra layer to the game and its multiplayer, and allows you to get into the lore a bit. Some of the things they do are quite interesting, like one of them allows you to turn yourself into dragon-human hybrid.

More armor: Self explanatory, there's a lot more armor

More spells: Self explanatory, there's a lot more spells to choose from.

Interconnected world: The way all the areas join together through openable shortcuts will have your jaw on the floor at times. It's absolutely amazing how all the levels in this game weave together in a coherent manner.

Better multiplayer: With the covenants and a summoning system that's actually usable, Dark Souls easily has better multiplayer than Demon's Souls.

Awesome DLC: Artorias of the Abyss is the best expansion pack to be released in years.

Dark Souls YMMV:

Slower combat: Self explanatory. Much weightier than demons.

Poise: Basically a stat attached to armor that give you stagger resistance, so you can take light-medium hits without having your attack interrupted. Personally I feel like it gives medium-heavy armor a point, but a lot of people don't like it.

Limited spell uses: Instead of mana, each spell you have equipped can only be used a certain amount of times between resting.

Dark Souls Minuses:

Lost Izalith: Terrible terrible area of glowing lava with the worst boss in the entire god damned series. Worst area in the game.

Some areas feel rushed: Nothing is as bad as lost Izalith, but some of the areas on the latter part of the game don't feel as well crafted as the first half.



Well I could go on for both, but I think this is enough info. I'll admit I have a bias toward Dark Souls, so even if I tried to keep my bias out of these descriptions it probably still exists.

Which mode were you on? Bear in mind that the "normal" difficulty being a total snooze is a relatively recent problem for the series. It seems like Intelligent Systems decided after Radiant Dawn that it would be better to tone down the default difficulty and then offer more challenge modes beyond "Hard." Hard mode in Awakening is closer to what long-time Fire Emblem players are used to (although I happen to think the balance is still not quite right).

In any case, fear that you won't get a good challenge should not be the reason you miss out on Thracia 776. It's one of the meanest games I know.

I didn't turn on permadeath(because every game I've played with permadeath has been a reload fest) but I did play at the hardest difficulty. It was interesting at first, but once I had my guys leveled up I was bored out of my skull with the combat.
 
Persona 3's jump is kind of weird. Maybe people wanted to try it after playing P4:Golden?

I took a quick look and counted only thirteen timely ballots that listed Persona 3 but not Persona 4. Three of those ballots listed Persona 2, and one was randomkid's all-SMT ballot. But I'm guessing that P3 and P4 had one of the highest rates of co-appearance.
 

Durante

Member
In either case, the people who played Demon's first are in the minority(First entry in series on only one console), so it's not surprising that more people like Dark even among those who have played both.
FWIW, I played Demon's first and still think Dark is much better.
 
One of the things that's always interesting to me about these lists is that they show how much of an effect one critical darling can have on the rest of a series' playrate and popularity. So someone hears the crazy forum hype for a game like Mass Effect 2 or Persona 4, gives it a shot, quite likes it, and decides to make a point of trying out ME1 or Persona 3 soon after, and boom, they get an injection of players several years after release that their contemporaries will never have. Of course this is dependent on those games being cheap and easily accessible - so I'm not so sure if Fire Emblem: Awakening's popularity and acclaim will necessarily translate into a boost for FE9 or 10.*

Please Nintendo, HD double pack for Wii U!
 

vocab

Member
Darks online doesn't even function properly. It doesn't have dedicated servers. It's an inferior game by default. Also, it needed how many patches before itemization had actual balance? A bunch. I just hate the progression in the game. It feels very unrewarding. Easily my biggest disappointment in 2011.

Also persona 3 above other games.

3.0
 

epmode

Member
FWIW, I played Demon's first and still think Dark is much better.

Same.

I much prefer Dark Souls' inventory/equipment weight system, the Estus Flask is precisely 713678236 times better than grass and I really love that connected world design.

edit: OH AND THE MAGIC SYSTEM TOO

God I love Dark Souls.
 
FFXII showed how the JRPG evolution should be. Xenoblade came afterwards and confirmed that. Now they just need to find a good battle system.

The cast was good too in FFXII (except for Vaan/Penelo, but even they were not bad, just bland). Writing and VA was also way ahead of other games in the genre. And I guess people liked the Gambit system too...

I'd say it's essential, it shows how modern JRPGs should be like.

No. We already have people trying to do this with Persona Q. Just no.

That's getting a bit elitist. Plenty of people have played other SMT games and still prefer Persona. It's not like the games fared poorly 5 years ago before all the animes and related media. The fact that some people didn't vote for the games you would have voted for also doesn't point to them having no experience in the genre (unless you think that Robert at Zeboyd or Dark Schala have no experience in the genre, both voted for Persona 4 either this year or the year prior). Personally, I prefer actual party members over a party of captured monsters in JRPGs. I can still enjoy good games despite that mechanic, but it does color my overall impression of a game. Everyone has their own set of preferences.

That tends to be their succor in times of worry. Now the question is: "why is it getting stronger now that that stuff is getting into more and more peoples' hands more easily, and there's no Dogma working against it any more?"

I am also quite curious about this too. I never had a chance to play it before it came out on PSN. Unfortunately that might be the very reason why it hasn't shown on the list yet.

This is a good point, it is fresh on people's minds after the PSN rerelease; why hasn't it went up? Was it mostly us vets double dipping?

I hope not.

Both magic and miracles are from the Old One. YOU HOPES MEAN NOTHING.
:D
 

Steel

Banned
Darks online doesn't even function properly. It doesn't have dedicated servers. It's an inferior game by default. Also, it needed how many patches before itemization had actual balance? A bunch. I just hate the progression in the game. It feels very unrewarding. Easily my biggest disappointment in 2011.

Been a long time since release for dark, multiplayer functions great. Demon's is smoother but the actual in-game conditions for mutliplayer pretty much make that a moot point

edit:

Likewise. I really don't think preferences among the Souls games have much to do with which the player experienced first.

Let me put it this way, how many people have you met who played Dark Souls first prefer Demons? And there are a lot of people who will post at every opportunity about how much better Demon's was. In either case, I put condition B: in my post to account for the people who liked one over the other despite order of play.
 

Dresden

Member
Preferences tend to be split between how much you liked the interconnected world design of Dark versus the hub-world of Demon's, from what I've seen.
 

Heropon

Member
This is a good point, it is fresh on people's minds after the PSN rerelease; why hasn't it went up? Was it mostly us vets double dipping?

It hasn't been released on PSN here yet. :(

I hope it's as good as all the fans are saying. I trust the people here so I think that's very likely.
 

RalchAC

Member
It's weird that after Awakening being the best selling FE title ever there haven't been any major news about the IP. A proper WiiU game (that it's not a cross-over spin-off and it's not vaporware), some HD re-release, eShop release for the Wii titles, Virtual Console releases. Something

I don't think doing a small re-print of the game (which has been bought mainly by scalpers is the right thing to do.

I mean, see Persona 3. It's gone up a lot of places and the main reason is probably that people that loved Persona 4 tried and liked it.

It hasn't been released on PSN here yet. :(

I hope it's as good as all the fans are saying. I trust the people here so I think that's very likely.

Yup, I didn't arrived to Europe in 2014. So it's missing a major region.
 

TaiKH92

Banned
I haven't played Persona 4, I'd really like to know what's so great about it. I mean, it's above FFVI and #2 overall, so there must be something really outstanding about it
 

Steel

Banned
Preferences tend to be split between how much you liked the interconnected world design of Dark versus the hub-world of Demon's, from what I've seen.

That's a factor and definitely the standout difference, though I've heard people say they prefer demon's because the combat is faster and that they dislike poise in Dark Souls.
 
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