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Next Gen, Diminishing Returns, and Keanu Reeves.

SlimySnake

Member


Apparently this is either CG or rendered in realtime on UE5 in a 25 GB demo on the PS5 and XSX. We should find out in a couple of days.

But let's assume it isnt CG, but a pre-endered inengine footage like the Hellblade 2 demo a couple of years back. That's a massive leap over what we saw in Cyberpunk last year.



Highly doubtful 10-12 tflops consoles can render this in realtime with all the game logic and open worlds to render, but what's clear is that we are nowhere near maxing out graphics on consoles. There is a lot of room for improvement and maybe it takes 50 tflops consoles to get us there, but hopefully seeing this will stop people from judging next gen potential based solely on cross gen visuals. Diminishing returns might be a real concept, but it wont apply until we get character models that look like that.

P.S This is what Quantic Dream was able to do with only 1.8 tflops. I think a semi-interactive game like Detroit can render something close to that Keanu Reeves model.

 

ParaSeoul

Member
Look at the launch games last gen and the games near the end of the gen,a massive difference and that gen was supposed to be a weaker one in terms of power gained from the previous gen.
 
Look at what Naughty Dog achieved with there past three games, easily the best facial animation and facial designs we’ve seen in video games.

Let’s consider the uplift in performance the next-gen consoles provide over their predecessors as well as the breakthrough of technologies such as micro-polygon rendering systems like Nanite, real-time dynamic bounce lighting, high bandwidth asset streaming and many many others.

This is just speculation for now but I wouldn’t be surprised if next-gen consoles will be able to pull of the kind of visuals we’re seeing with Matrix demo or whatever it is.

When it does happen the talk of what the “10 TF” console is capable of will die down very quickly as well talk of “diminishing returns” just as it has in the past.

It’s just a matter of patience.
 
But let's assume it isnt CG, but a pre-endered inengine footage like the Hellblade 2 demo a couple of years back. That's a massive leap over what we saw in Cyberpunk last year.

Despite certain media outlets' effort to paint Cyberpunk as some divine gift from the gaming heavens in rtx ultra 20fps mode, the game does not represent the best that current consoles or high-end PCs can show.
 

SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.


Apparently this is either CG or rendered in realtime on UE5 in a 25 GB demo on the PS5 and XSX. We should find out in a couple of days.

But let's assume it isnt CG, but a pre-endered inengine footage like the Hellblade 2 demo a couple of years back. That's a massive leap over what we saw in Cyberpunk last year.



Highly doubtful 10-12 tflops consoles can render this in realtime with all the game logic and open worlds to render, but what's clear is that we are nowhere near maxing out graphics on consoles. There is a lot of room for improvement and maybe it takes 50 tflops consoles to get us there, but hopefully seeing this will stop people from judging next gen potential based solely on cross gen visuals. Diminishing returns might be a real concept, but it wont apply until we get character models that look like that.

P.S This is what Quantic Dream was able to do with only 1.8 tflops. I think a semi-interactive game like Detroit can render something close to that Keanu Reeves model.



Even if it's not CGI. You seriously comparing a cinematic that focus of just one face with nothing in the background, to another game that show the dude with many stuffs in the background all 1000% real time? C'mon Bruh you're better than this.

I would find it normal from a kid that never experienced this kind of marketing strats, but from someone who experienced many gaming generations i find it weird to see people impress by this, because in all honesty there is absolutely nothing impressive here.
 
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Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
Imo improving and finding new techniques in game engines and tools will have as much importance as hardware when it comes to improving visuals.

However I do agree theres still a long way to go until cgi let alone realtime computer graphics are indistinguishable from reality. Cgi still has a way to go at things like skin shading in direct daylight and animation.
 

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
Even if it's not CGI. You seriously comparing a cinematic that focus of just one face with nothing in the background, to another game that show the dude with many stuffs in the background all 1000% real time? C'mon Bruh you're better than this.

I would find it normal from a kid that never experienced this kind of marketing stats, but from someone who experienced many gaming generations i find it weird to see people impress by this, because in all honesty there is absolutely nothing impressive here.

Yeah. If u took the Cyberpunk reeves in similar lighting it would look a lot closer.
 
The PS5 and Series X are 2x or better more powerful than the One X and PS4 Pro, respectively --- but that doesn't mean games will look twice as good, and anyone that thinks as much needs to temper their expectations. What we really should see is graphics similar to last gen but with better textures and effects, more modern effects, but also higher frame rates, more objects on screen, vastly improved physics, etc.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
It's just Keanu made with metahuman tech in UE5, Idk why people are losing their shit over it and even debating if it's the real actor or saying it took double takes to realize it's not? It's gonna be an UE5 tech demo/movie ad in one.
 
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SSfox

Lies about why mods reply ban and warn me.
So this wasnt impressive to you?

Yeah that's naughty dog and they already proven themselves long time ago in the graphics area, so ND will show me something i know it's real with no fake BS, but here that's not ND who tells you that it is how Neo will look ingame in this upcoming Matrix game? There are thousands of examples of games that showed something when reveal and the real game was another thing.
 
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M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
I think it can very easily be rendered like this, mostly if there is only character on the screen, but that is not what you want most likely, especially in matrix and shit...
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
Too bad that they eventually start moving and the magic disappear.

P.s. that keanu gif is really not impressive, it looks very fake for some reason, ND are gonna blast that thing by the end of the gen.

Ellie in some parts of tlou2 has more believable facial acting
like when joel tell her the truth and she cry

It looks better than it should because it is a famous actor and you have an actual real life reference, made up faces are harder to make believable imo.
 
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Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
Be aware that the model viewer models are super high quality. These tanked my ps4 slim performance.
These are not even cutscenes models. Amazing detail
Its the reason i posted it, its a similer circumstance to a tech demo.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
Look at what Naughty Dog achieved with there past three games, easily the best facial animation and facial designs we’ve seen in video games.

Let’s consider the uplift in performance the next-gen consoles provide over their predecessors as well as the breakthrough of technologies such as micro-polygon rendering systems like Nanite, real-time dynamic bounce lighting, high bandwidth asset streaming and many many others.

This is just speculation for now but I wouldn’t be surprised if next-gen consoles will be able to pull of the kind of visuals we’re seeing with Matrix demo or whatever it is.

When it does happen the talk of what the “10 TF” console is capable of will die down very quickly as well talk of “diminishing returns” just as it has in the past.

It’s just a matter of patience.

100% the bolded!
 

Falc67

Member
Too bad that they eventually start moving and the magic disappear.

P.s. that keanu gif is really not impressive, it looks very fake for some reason, ND are gonna blast that thing by the end of the gen.

Ellie in some parts of tlou2 has more believable facial acting
like when joel tell her the truth and she cry

It looks better than it should because it is a famous actor and you have an actual real life reference, made up faces are harder to make believable imo.
This neo looks more impressive than the CGI TV spot TLOU2 trailer. Let alone the game 🤣

If you’ve only watched the trailer on your phone, and not on an actual 4K big screen, then I understand. But that shit look almost real.
 
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SlimySnake

Member
This neo looks more impressive than the CGI TV spot TLOU2 trailer. Let alone the game 🤣

If you’ve only watched the trailer on your phone, and not on an actual 4K big screen, then I understand. But that shit look almost real.
Almost? Dude I thought it was real at first. I watched it on my phone and was like really? thats it?

They probably spent their entire 10 tflops rendering budget on this face, so i want to see what the environments look like with a smaller LOD Keanu.
 

GymWolf

Gold Member
This neo looks more impressive than the CGI TV spot TLOU2 trailer. Let alone the game 🤣

If you’ve only watched the trailer on your phone, and not on an actual 4K big screen, then I understand. But that shit look almost real.
It looks fake to me.

Iis more detailed yes, but the digital acting is less realistic than that scene with ellie, i watched the thing on my 4k oled, it still looks super fake for some reason.
 
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BlackTron

Member
This just proves that if they remake Resident Evil 1 yet again the characters can maybe look close to this while using static backgrounds. I mean damn this is a 25GB file to show off a single character with nothing else going on. Of course if they put all system resources into one character it can look insane. In an actual 3D game with a camera and environments above Dreamcast level it won't be possible.
 
This just proves that if they remake Resident Evil 1 yet again the characters can maybe look close to this while using static backgrounds. I mean damn this is a 25GB file to show off a single character with nothing else going on. Of course if they put all system resources into one character it can look insane. In an actual 3D game with a camera and environments above Dreamcast level it won't be possible.

10/10 would buy a RE1 remake using static backgrounds with characters built using MetaHuman.
 
We won’t see true next gen games until devs make the necessary changes at engine level to make use of new technologies introduced this gen. This applies to both consoles though is more of an issue with Xbox. Is there a single game using DirectML, DVI, SFS, Mesh Shading or proper hardware decompression??? Even DXR and VRS are barely implemented in any games. The amount of performance left on the table by not making use of these features is quite frankly embarrassing. Sony doesn’t fare much better either though has been more proactive than Microsoft.
 

Esppiral

Member
This just proves that if they remake Resident Evil 1 yet again the characters can maybe look close to this while using static backgrounds. I mean damn this is a 25GB file to show off a single character with nothing else going on. Of course if they put all system resources into one character it can look insane. In an actual 3D game with a camera and environments above Dreamcast level it won't be possible.
What makes you think that the demo will be just Keanu's face? Lol
 

BlackTron

Member
What makes you think that the demo will be just Keanu's face? Lol

We really don't know yet, but I'm basing my comments on what is known right now. The teaser they provided proves nothing but...well, nothing but what I said.
 
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sncvsrtoip

Member
While cutscenes faces looks amazing and still holds very close to reality during on rail section I'm not that impressed walking on streets section, noisy low resolution, cars models, main character and npc's level below some current games
 
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Stooky

Member
diminishing returns is bullshit. Anybody working in CG/real time graphics will tell you that.
 
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Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Diminishing Returns Squad on Suicide watch.


Looks like a GTA 4 lighting mod, not sure of your point. Not that I agree with the diminishing returns crap, it's just that the current consoles aren't that powerful, shit in the future will blow all this away for sure

It just sucks we'll wait like 10 years for that with concole cycles and until then just get the same old stuff with higher settings on PC and Pro models and crap with the same baseline as now.

If you're unable to point out the reason, then it's actually an Uncanny Valley effect which means it's impressive enough.
Lol, no.
 
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Looks like a GTA 4 lighting mod, not sure of your point. Not that I agree with the diminishing returns crap, it's just that the current consoles aren't that powerful, sht in the future will blow all this away for sure.


Lol, no.
GTA IV doesn't have infinite draw distances with no LOD pop in. That to me was the most impressive part. I kept waiting for it to break down and it just wouldn't.

However, one thing I noticed was some geometry that was made out of straight lines close together like stripes, would cause a screen door effect due to the pixels on the screen. Normally that wouldn't happen because they could swap it out with a lower res model in the distance and then load in the full geometry when you got closer.

Anyway, it's seriously impressive. I didn't expect a full-blown game, so the game world doesn't have to be fully realized.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
There is still lod naturally, it would be silly to have everything in the same detail as that only means you reduce the detail you can have in the actually visible parts closer to you.

It's just super smooth and hidden, like next gen engine level displacement mapping all over every scene for everything, you can see constant polycount changes in nanite view.
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
Diminishing Returns Squad on Suicide watch.
Diminishing returns doesn't mean no graphical evolution, it means the graphical evolution slows down over time, a logarithmic curve.

Compare matrix awakens with Watchdogs 2 that came out 5 years ago


Another one running on ultra settings:

There are improvements? Definitely. Most notably the amount of npcs and less pop ins.

But now compare GTA 4 with GTA SA that also have a 4-5 year difference between them.




The difference is so stark, not only in graphics but also physics, that comparing the two feels almost like a joke
 
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