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Nintendo = Open Arms, MS/Sony = Folded Arms

Jeff-DSA

Member
I was one of the most bitter people when I heard that HDTV support had been nixed from the Revolution, but in my anger and despair I have been thinking about it a lot at the same time. It seems that it actually might pay off in the end. Here's the way I see it:

The more I think about it, the more I think Nintendo is on to something. Smaller dev houses are going to be hard pressed to create the kind of content required to be on the 360. At BARE MINIMUM they will need to have 720p, Xbox Live support, and they have to still offer a product that measures up to what the competition is offering if they want to compete. Developers on the PS3 will be met with similar demands and constraints. Imagine the disc space needed for textures to look good on an Xbox 360 game with those demands, it's going to fill a DVD rather easily for a large game.

On the other hand, the Revolution doesn't force that on their supporting devs. These guys can implement the bells and whistles to the product as they see fit or to the extent that they can afford it. Basically the evolution of their project is up to them from the concept stage to the day it's sent of for pressing. Teams like Treasure will be able to know that they are welcome to put out niche titles or pet projects that have been in the making for years without the development costs skyrocketing into the multi-million dollar numbers that could limit their freedom. Features won't have to be nixed in order to make time for REQUIRED online implementation in some manner.

It's more of an open-arms approach by Iwata than the demanding and whip-crackin' practice Allard and Kutaragi are presenting. I'm happy that we're assured that most games next-gen are going to be in high-definition and online, but I'm not so sure that it should be a minimum requirement. It's that sort of direction that can get "the next Katamari Damacy" sensation canned before it gets of the ground.

With all that said, I still wish the Revolution AT LEAST supported HDTV resolutions...
 

sly

Banned
Way to spin bro! :lol OK, you have a point but please don't try to make Nintendo's choice not to support HD(which isn't confirmed BTW) sound positive.
 
Creating a game at 720p or 1080i/p costs nothing. It's no different than switching resolutions on your PC. It costs the developer nothing.

This is just ridiculous. Nintendo should be supporting this. I'm pretty shocked.

EDIT: And don't be stupid. Sony and MS aren't forcing anything. It's Nintendo that's forcing developers to lock in at 480p. You call that "open arms"?
 

Jeff-DSA

Member
sly said:
Way to spin bro! :lol OK, you have a point but please don't try to make Nintendo's choice not to support HD(which isn't confirmed BTW) sound positive.

I'm not making it a positive thing that they (maybe) aren't supporting it. I'm making it out to be a positive that they aren't REQUIRING it.

Subtle difference in language, big difference in meaning.
 

Firest0rm

Member
The Revolution should atleast support HD, it doesn't mean they have to force all developers to develop their games with HD in mind.
 
There's no way the Revolution will be the lead platform for development outside of exclusives and 1st party content. Most 3rd party publishers will view what Sony and MS are doing as their development standard.
 

123rl

Member
Jeff-DSA said:
I was one of the most bitter people when I heard that HDTV support had been nixed from the Revolution, but in my anger and despair I have been thinking about it a lot at the same time. It seems that it actually might pay off in the end. Here's the way I see it:

The more I think about it, the more I think Nintendo is on to something. Smaller dev houses are going to be hard pressed to create the kind of content required to be on the 360. At BARE MINIMUM they will need to have 720p, Xbox Live support, and they have to still offer a product that measures up to what the competition is offering if they want to compete. Developers on the PS3 will be met with similar demands and constraints. Imagine the disc space needed for textures to look good on an Xbox 360 game with those demands, it's going to fill a DVD rather easily for a large game.

On the other hand, the Revolution doesn't force that on their supporting devs. These guys can implement the bells and whistles to the product as they see fit or to the extent that they can afford it. Basically the evolution of their project is up to them from the concept stage to the day it's sent of for pressing. Teams like Treasure will be able to know that they are welcome to put out niche titles or pet projects that have been in the making for years without the development costs skyrocketing into the multi-million dollar numbers that could limit their freedom. Features won't have to be nixed in order to make time for REQUIRED online implementation in some manner.

It's more of an open-arms approach by Iwata than the demanding and whip-crackin' practice Allard and Kutaragi are presenting. I'm happy that we're assured that most games next-gen are going to be in high-definition and online, but I'm not so sure that it should be a minimum requirement. It's that sort of direction that can get "the next Katamari Damacy" sensation canned before it gets of the ground.

With all that said, I still wish the Revolution AT LEAST supported HDTV resolutions...


You're right, IMO. Nintendo are trying to make it easier for developers with the Revolution. BUT (and this is a huuuge BUT)...that does not excuse them from denying any developer the chance to make 720p or higher games. Why not enable it and leave it up to the developers to decide? The same idea (in reverse) can be said to MS/Sony...ffs why force a minimum standard that will ramp up resources and costs? Enable it and leave it up to the developers to choose whether or not to have hidef gaming!

As far as I see it...all three of them are fucking idiots. Sony/MS have done one stupid thing, and Nintendo have done the exact opposite - but equally dumb - thing.
 

Rhindle

Member
Totally agree. It goes hand-in-hand with the superb developer support and cut-rate developer royalties that Nintendo is famous for. Nintendo, always putting the struggling third-parties first, bless its heart.
 

sprsk

force push the doodoo rock
Perry.5.jpg
 
God's Hand said:
Creating a game at 720p or 1080i/p costs nothing. It's no different than switching resolutions on your PC. It costs the developer nothing.

This is just ridiculous. Nintendo should be supporting this. I'm pretty shocked.

EDIT: And don't be stupid. Sony and MS aren't forcing anything. It's Nintendo that's forcing developers to lock in at 480p. You call that "open arms"?

None of this post makes sense.
 
Even though HD isn't a huge deal to ME personally, Nintendo is shutting out what will be a huge portion of gamers in the future. Offering different resolutions costs NOTHING. Perhaps the HD output on the Revolution itself costs a measily $5-$10 extra manufacturing, but you put it in there to please the consumer.
 

Jeff-DSA

Member
Rhindle said:
Totally agree. It goes hand-in-hand with the superb developer support and cut-rate developer royalties that Nintendo is famous for. Nintendo, always putting the struggling third-parties first, bless its heart.


Actually, Nintendo has been known for higher licensing fees. That's one of the main reason the PSX had so much more support than the N64.

They may have fixed that by now, but I don't have that information.
 

sangreal

Member
Jeff-DSA said:
Actually, Nintendo has been known for higher licensing fees. That's one of the main reason the PSX had so much more support than the N64.

They may have fixed that by now, but I don't have that information.

I believe that would be sarcasm. ;)
 
God's Hand said:
B.S. My post makes perfect sense. Jeff-DSA claims small developers with no money can't make a SIMPLE RESOLUTION CHANGE for HDTV.

-You're point about it being easy for developers to make a game in HD is BS. It isn't like switching the resolution on your PC.

-MS IS forcing developers to make every game in 720P.

-You said Nintendo is forcing developers to make games in 480P in a thread about Nintendo NOT including HD with Revolution...
 

Ponn

Banned
Yes, i'd much rather have no choice of HD support then a choice. This has to be the most retarded spin/damage control yet.
 
360 and PS3 are STILL going to support and run on 480i displays. Just that 720p is the smallest resolution that they will accept for a game to pass their internal quality checks.
 

Azih

Member
Xbox Live support is free as well. You just have to make sure that people can see their Xbox live contacts from the menu of their single player game. All of those functions are going to be provided by MS since they're standard.
 
Bacon said:
-You're point about it being easy for developers to make a game in HD is BS. It isn't like switching the resolution on your PC.

-MS IS forcing developers to make every game in 720P.

-You said Nintendo is forcing developers to make games in 480P in a thread about Nintendo NOT including HD with Revolution...


Yes it is like switching resolution on a PC.

MS is forcing 720p SUPPORT as a minimum res of 360 but the games will still run in 480i

480p is not HD. It is Standard Definition. If it were 16:9 it would be Enhanced Definition.
 

Jeff-DSA

Member
Ponn01 said:
Yes, i'd much rather have no choice of HD support then a choice. This has to be the most retarded spin/damage control yet.

Well, for you to draw from my post makes me think you didn't finish reading it. I was saying that I wanted them to have the option, just not make it mandatory. Read again...especially the last line.
 
not mandatory means people won't support it....we've learned this lesson in previous generations.

as I said before, it would be one thing if Nintendo is the market leader...but as it stands it seems like Sony/MS will be taking the lionshare of console sales (again) which means their baseline standards will be the minimum target that developers and publishers will shoot for. So what will happen to Revolution ports?
 
Warm Machine said:
Yes it is like switching resolution on a PC.

There could be a visual downside to the switch to high-definition, though, and this may work to Nintendo's benefit. HD games may be hampered by framerate problems, while SD titles rendered by more powerful hardware will probably run smoothly. "This is my single biggest worry," admits Eggebrecht. "Let's put it this way. At 640x480 [standard definition], we're at a point where we can do anything. Anything. Finally. But with high-definition, I think we're at about the same level of challenge when it comes to framerate as we are this generation. You can do a hell of a lot more polygons. You can do a hell of a lot more shaders. But the inherent fill-rate issues are still certainly there. Will it be a 30-frame time? Will it be a 60-frame time? It will be interesting to see."

Funny, it seems a lot easier on my PC.

MS is forcing 720p SUPPORT as a minimum res of 360 but the games will still run in 480i

Yes, but they are forcing something (as is Sony.)

480p is not HD. It is Standard Definition. If it were 16:9 it would be Enhanced Definition.

Nintendo could be forcing 480i for all we know.
 

ManaByte

Member
Bacon said:
Yes, but they are forcing something (as is Sony.)

Here's a reality newsflash for you NINTENDO, MICROSOFT, and SONY all have technical requirements that they FORCE on developers in order to have their game approved for publication on their console. All three have different requirements that MUST be met before the game is allowed to go gold and be published.
 

PS2 KID

Member
If only we could get Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony together. Then we might have the start of something great, or maybe something like the Macarena.
 

Ponn

Banned
Jeff-DSA said:
Well, for you to draw from my post makes me think you didn't finish reading it. I was saying that I wanted them to have the option, just not make it mandatory. Read again...especially the last line.

You were saying Iwata is going at this with open arms by nixing HD support. That's not open arms, thats just taking a feature out. By not supporting it developers have no choice, thats not open arms at all. Even though MS is requiing at least 720p support and we are not sure about Sony yet but they are offering up to 1080p that is a choice. Just because you make a game that supports HD doesn't necessarily mean you spend time and money taking advantage of it. Anyone with some HD Xbox games and a HD TV can tell you some of them support it but it doesn't mean it looks prettier. So it still falls on the developer. And your last sentence is pointless, you put it in there just to cover your ass like you just did when someone calls you on it. You can't want HD support and yet support the no HD support regardless how you spin it.
 
Yeah, someone is going to get an HDTV and get a Revolution and be shocked at how fugly it looks in comparison to the HDTV ready PS3 and X360. That person will pawn it off for more PS3 and X360 games.

Nintendo will probably release a lot of their games in HD formats like they did with Progressive Scan. Although they're a half step behind the rest (with supporting DPL2 instead of 5.1 or anything else) so who knows.
 

jiggle

Member
The perfect solution is DS connectivity of course. 9 screens(4 of which are touchscreens) >>>>> HD on 1 screen.
 
Right now someone somewhere is playing some top tier PC game at 60fps at some insane resolution. If a current gen PC video card can do that I think the 360 card is going to be able to handle it too.
 
ManaByte said:
Here's a reality newsflash for you NINTENDO, MICROSOFT, and SONY all have technical requirements that they FORCE on developers in order to have their game approved for publication on their console. All three have different requirements that MUST be met before the game is allowed to go gold and be published.

No shit, but we're talking about HD right now.
 
The Experiment said:
Yeah, someone is going to get an HDTV and get a Revolution and be shocked at how fugly it looks in comparison to the HDTV ready PS3 and X360. That person will pawn it off for more PS3 and X360 games.

Nintendo will probably release a lot of their games in HD formats like they did with Progressive Scan. Although they're a half step behind the rest (with supporting DPL2 instead of 5.1 or anything else) so who knows.

To be fair most PS2 games don't do DTS or Dolby Digital so the gamecube with its majority DPL2 releases are pretty good. Almost everything on the Xbox is Dolby Digital 5.1

Even if the Revolution ships with component video out it'll still be able to output high res formats as long as the hardware isn't locked at 640x480. How many people play PC games at 640x480 anyway?
 

Amir0x

Banned
The Faceless Master said:
another Nintendo HD thread?

can't we keep this all in the one thread?

No, because then the massive mouthpieces for console-side protection won't be as audible.
 

KingJ2002

Member
Nintendo is definitely not looking at the future with this decision... they are looking at the the current market.... what's out now and what people have now. They should have the option to expand in the future... not make sure there arent any options. People are going to switch TV's sooner or later... not supporting high def will hurt nintendo.
 

Hitokage

Setec Astronomer
Funny, it seems a lot easier on my PC.
And how you ever got to the conclusion that supporting a multi-tiered platform which puts out any number of possible resolutions is easier than supporting only two discrete resolutions on a stable platform base is something I'd rather not guess.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Jeff-DSA said:
I was one of the most bitter people when I heard that HDTV support had been nixed from the Revolution, but in my anger and despair I have been thinking about it a lot at the same time. It seems that it actually might pay off in the end. Here's the way I see it:

The more I think about it, the more I think Nintendo is on to something. Smaller dev houses are going to be hard pressed to create the kind of content required to be on the 360. At BARE MINIMUM they will need to have 720p, Xbox Live support, and they have to still offer a product that measures up to what the competition is offering if they want to compete. Developers on the PS3 will be met with similar demands and constraints. Imagine the disc space needed for textures to look good on an Xbox 360 game with those demands, it's going to fill a DVD rather easily for a large game.

On the other hand, the Revolution doesn't force that on their supporting devs. These guys can implement the bells and whistles to the product as they see fit or to the extent that they can afford it. Basically the evolution of their project is up to them from the concept stage to the day it's sent of for pressing. Teams like Treasure will be able to know that they are welcome to put out niche titles or pet projects that have been in the making for years without the development costs skyrocketing into the multi-million dollar numbers that could limit their freedom. Features won't have to be nixed in order to make time for REQUIRED online implementation in some manner.

It's more of an open-arms approach by Iwata than the demanding and whip-crackin' practice Allard and Kutaragi are presenting. I'm happy that we're assured that most games next-gen are going to be in high-definition and online, but I'm not so sure that it should be a minimum requirement. It's that sort of direction that can get "the next Katamari Damacy" sensation canned before it gets of the ground.

With all that said, I still wish the Revolution AT LEAST supported HDTV resolutions...

Or you could do what MS did - build in the functionality they require for certification in X360 games either into the hardware (720p, 4xAA) or software tools (Live Aware, Dashboard, Custom Soundtracks). That way it makes it easier for small development houses to include those features because of the standard tools. I think Nintendo is just making excuses.
 

Memles

Member
"Open Arms" is probably the wrong way to put it...Nintendo may be, perhaps, giving more developers the ability to create games in their impoverished states, but they're also keeping developers from making games in HD for the system if they really wanted to. That's not really "open arms" now, is it?

I'm more or less ambivalent towards all of this...I am no graphics whore and even if I do own a bigger HDTV at that time (Currently have a 4:3 with component input) I really don't think I'll shed a tear over it.

At the same time, I think that this decision more or less flies in the face of the entire television manufacturing climate of today. The FCC is actually looking to FORCE them to make more HDTVs. Nintendo and Microsoft's stances are so opposite, and both with good intentions that are negative in some way. I, as someone who knows what HDTV means and has no plans of buying another 4:3 TV, would be more likely to side with Microsoft on the issue, even thought it really doesn't bother me either way...but I really don't think the majority of the world feels the same. We, as GAF, are like the WORST sampling of the population on an issue like this.
 

Redbeard

Banned
This belongs on the IGN Gamecube/Revolution boards. :lol

It could join such gems as:

Lack of HD support does NOT mean worse visuals graphicly

and my personal favorite:

to all the HDTV crazies... You might want to think about the developers instead of yourselves
 
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