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[SeaOfMadness]

Move was a horrible mistake on Sonys part IMO. 3 months in and its already an also ran.

If the intent was for it to compete with the Wii and Kinect (which, let's face it, most people agree on this.. how can you not? Just look at E3 2009), then it was a failure even before it launched. No one wanted to admit it, though.

It's targeted at the hardcore who already own a PS3. So it's an accessory. It's not a system seller. Kinect *is*. That's all it's supposed to be. The fact that people are buying it standalone is gravy as far as MS is concerned (why do you think it's $150 when it's been shown to only have COGs of $50 or so).

These are 2 very different strategies. Expand your audience (MS) or pander to it (Sony). Move was all Sony could muster in terms of competition, and they gave it their best, but it wasn't the right strategy in the first place.

 

[Luckyman]

So Sony is going to cut the price of their consoles first this year?

Cool beans. Then I'll definitely wait until then to purchase a second PS3 for homebrew purposes. Thanks Sony!

I see no reason to cut

 

[Zachack]

Wow Zachack is super butthurt by Epic Mickey's success lol

Not really. I just find the "slap in the face to/refute blah blah" comments to be silly. For the record I think it sold well for it's brand/advertising (better than I expected given competing releases and missing Black Friday), but also stand behind the fact that it has a hugely powerful cultural icon helping to drive its sales, much like Kingdom Hearts did. I'm a bit annoyed that a game I consider deeply sub-par got strong sales, but life would be pretty rough if I got angry when something I didn't think deserved money got a lot of it.

I do think it's... interesting that someone seems so eager to harvest comments solely for fanboy gloating, but if it improves his sense of self-worth then that's great I guess.

 

[Zachack]

I get the vibe from the sells data, or at least the software sells data, that the Move is going become the next EyeToy for Sony.

That would be quite apropos given that Move is an expanded-use EyeToy.

 

[Sadist]

Finally caught up and I'm really surprised Epic Mickey did over a million. I expected 400 - 500k at best.

Donkey Kong CR selling this well is good

 

[Thunder Monkey]

What's Donkey's LTD?

I haven't been paying enough attention I guess.

 

[Baki]

If they fall further behind they'll start to lose developer support. Especially when and if MS is going to push and fund third parties to release more exclusive Kinect games. Both Nintendo and Sony will be kept out of the loop with their wands hanging. Nintendo could fill the 'gap' with a new Mario/Wii__ title, Sony not so much.

Look at this months NPD chart. Developers would be crazy, (and I mean absolutely batshit insane) to abandon the Wii in favour of Kinect.

Kinect has ended that pattern for the foreseeable future.

With the 360 supply issues and the upcoming exclusive games, Sony has a chance of swinging thing back into their court during the 1st 3 months of the year. Especially since Kinect is more of a seasonal product (Sells mostly during times of gift giving, much like the Wii now).

 

[Celine]

Yea I was going to say there is $1.6B left on the books iirc. $1.5B, no matter. Regardless, at this rate I have a feeling they will clear the rest fairly quickly, which is great on the business side because they are going to milk the rest of this generation for all it's worth.

If I did it right then it should be:
-539000000 -1339000000 -1969000000 +426000000 +169000000 +679000000 +382000000 = -2191000000

( it's debatable the inclusion of the first number since it was the FY just before 360 launch without it the sum is -1652000000 )

Sources:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370257&page=2
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401936
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=411501

 

[AniHawk]

Not really. I just find the "slap in the face to/refute blah blah" comments to be silly. For the record I think it sold well for it's brand/advertising (better than I expected given competing releases and missing Black Friday), but also stand behind the fact that it has a hugely powerful cultural icon helping to drive its sales, much like Kingdom Hearts did. I'm a bit annoyed that a game I consider deeply sub-par got strong sales, but life would be pretty rough if I got angry when something I didn't think deserved money got a lot of it.

I'd say it's mostly a case of advertising when it comes to Epic Mickey. That and the fact that the game wasn't completely terrible.

 

[Shiggy]

What's Donkey's LTD?

I haven't been paying enough attention I guess.

November sales according to the November NPD thread:
Donkey Kong Country Returns (Wii) NINTENDO - 430.5K

 

[GhaleonEB]

Appreciate the steady thread title and OP updates as new information comes in. I haven't had time to keep up, so it's nice to see new bits flagged on the front page and well organized on one place.

The low adoption rate of Move is pretty remarkable. I was quite dubious of Kinect, even with the marketing budget, but I think it's becoming increasingly clear that Microsoft choosing a different route was the differentiator they needed for motion controls. Move seems to lack a standout title to help drive it.

 

[Baki]

@ Kagari

Shuhei Yoshida (President) said the PS3 Slim began making a profit in April 2010, but a price cut was unlikely. Instead they would focus on 'added value', with bundles like Move for example.

That strategy clearly hasn't worked, so we should expect something like the 4GB Xbox 360 S (although I still don't believe there will be a $199 PS3 this year).

Shitty bundles don't count. Their BF bundles last year were better.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'd say it's mostly a case of advertising when it comes to Epic Mickey. That and the fact that the game wasn't completely terrible.

Magical Mirror was gorgeous though. ('~')

Was it a game? I can remember.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Well, if Sorcery turns out like they want it too (Killler App) Sony NEEDS to make people aware of it. How? I have no clue. It's there best shot.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

November sales according to the November NPD thread:
Donkey Kong Country Returns (Wii) NINTENDO - 430.5K

Whoa!

So that series is reasonably big then.

Damn. That'd put it at almost 2 million units. Good for Retro. Smart of Nintendo. Their big series are doing badass this gen.

 

[MYE]

Loving all the "Yes but Epic Mickey doesnt count cuz blablabla".
Some people need to fucking deal with it and move on.

Not really. I just find the "slap in the face to/refute blah blah" comments to be silly. For the record I think it sold well for it's brand/advertising (better than I expected given competing releases and missing Black Friday), but also stand behind the fact that it has a hugely powerful cultural icon helping to drive its sales, much like Kingdom Hearts did. I'm a bit annoyed that a game I consider deeply sub-par got strong sales, but life would be pretty rough if I got angry when something I didn't think deserved money got a lot of it.

Really?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Loving all the "Yes but Epic Mickey doesnt count cuz blablabla".
Some people need to fucking deal with it and move on.



Really?

Yes really.

Just like when Call of Duty sells really well I weep myself to sleep. It burns at our very cores when a game we don't like sells really well.

 

[Megadragon15]

Well, if Sorcery turns out like they want it too (Killler App) Sony NEEDS to make people aware of it. How? I have no clue. It's there best shot.

One title doesn't change perceptions of a product once that product gets labeled as something derogatory (Wii too).

 

[BorkBork]

2.73m, December 2002.

Best NPD months:

1.) Wii Dec 2009: 3.81 million
2.) DS Dec 2009: 3.31 million
3.) DS Dec 2008: 3.04 million
4.) PS2 Dec 2002: 2.73 million
5.) DS Dec 2010: 2.5X million
6.) DS Dec 2007: 2.47 million
7.) Wii Dec 2010: 2.36 million
8.) GBA Dec 2003: 2.26 million
9.) Wii Dec 2008: 2.15 million
10.) GBA Dec 2002: 2.14 million
11.) GBA Dec 2004: 2.06 million
12.) Wii Nov 2008: 2.04 million

I think that's every number above 2 million.

That really puts some perspective on things.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Look at this months NPD chart. Developers would be crazy, (and I mean absolutely batshit insane) to abandon the Wii in favour of Kinect.

I think that this generation has proven that the majority of them are indeed batshit insane.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Really?

That he considered it sub-par or that he admits annoyance that it did well despite that?

 

[Sipowicz]

Look at this months NPD chart. Developers would be crazy, (and I mean absolutely batshit insane) to abandon the Wii in favour of Kinect

i think you're seriously overestimating developers/publishers. they will ignore the reality of the situation in favour of the stigma attached to the wii. see also the handhelds and pc

 

[Baki]

I think that this generation has proven that the majority of them are indeed batshit insane.

8M vs 70M+ for the same market. Just Dance series at 10M worldwide.

SMH, if they do. lol

i think you're seriously overestimating developers/publishers. they will ignore the reality of the situation in favour of the stigma attached to the wii. see also the handhelds and pc

Forget absolute install bases for a second, because (A) that doesn't tell you the active userbase (B) doesn't necessarily tell you how much of the target demographic is on that platform (for the Wii, its quite telling though).

The software sales speak for themselves. Epic Mickey, Just Dance, Michael Jackson: The Experience, uDraw and Donkey Kong.

 

[MYE]

Yes really.

Just like when Call of Duty sells really well I weep myself to sleep. It burns at our very cores when a game we don't like sells really well.

I can accept it when game sales are so strong it creates huge trends and gaming habits we might deslike. Epic Mickey's success is hardly an industry shaking event.

That he considered it sub-par or that he admits annoyance that it did well despite that?

The latter.

 

[EagleEyes]

Well, if Sorcery turns out like they want it too (Killler App) Sony NEEDS to make people aware of it. How? I have no clue. It's there best shot.

Did I just see Sorcery and killer app in the same sentence?

 

[KingDizzi]

Well, if Sorcery turns out like they want it too (Killler App) Sony NEEDS to make people aware of it. How? I have no clue. It's there best shot.

Not really, the games which will make or break Move include Killzone 3, LBP2, Socom etc, the big guns for the controller have yet to release. Way too premature to be talking about Move being a success or failure at this point, there is currently shit games for it however KZ3, LBP2, Socom etc will change that. If sales for Move remain flat once those three have released it's panic time but for now I don't think Sony are sweating at all about it, the real support it still to come. Mine is just gathering dust at present, still have no idea at all why I decided to buy it at release and not next month. It's the big budget games that will sell Move, not fucking emulating drinking a potion.

 

[kame-sennin]

With the 360 supply issues and the upcoming exclusive games, Sony has a chance of swinging thing back into their court during the 1st 3 months of the year. Especially since Kinect is more of a seasonal product (Sells mostly during times of gift giving, much like the Wii now).

We can't say this without a years worth of Kinect data.

 

[Zoe]

Well, if Sorcery turns out like they want it too (Killler App) Sony NEEDS to make people aware of it. How? I have no clue. It's there best shot.

Well, they'd need to have a dedicated commercial for one.

That's one of the biggest differences in the ad campaigns so far. I hardly see Kinect commercials, but it's always the one showing off Dance Central. I see tons of Move commercials, but it's always the one with an unrecognizable montage.

 

[Sadist]

I think that this generation has proven that the majority of them are indeed batshit insane.

Developers would rather make Silent Hill-esque Mario Youtube video's about Nintendo abandoning their fans. Oh hey wait a minute...

 

[Megadragon15]

Not really, the games which will make or break Move include Killzone 3, LBP2, Socom etc, the big guns for the controller have yet to release. Way too premature to be talking about Move being a success or failure at this point, there is currently shit games for it however KZ3, LBP2, Socom etc will change that. If sales for Move remain flat once those three have released it's panic time but for now I don't think Sony are sweating at all about it, the real support it still to come. Mine is just gathering dust at present, still have no idea at all why I decided to buy it at release and not next month. It's the big budget games that will sell Move, not fucking emulating drinking a potion.

Why would a person want to invest $100 in playing games that could also be played with the regular pack-in controller?

 

[Baki]

We can't say this without a years worth of Kinect data.

You're right. But that's the impression I get. I could be completely wrong. Regardless, the fact that the 360 is supply constrained really is a big win for Sony.

(this is one of the few times I miss the :lol emoticon)

 

[donny2112]

SMH, if they do. lol

3rd-parties have already by and large abandoned the Wii. Pachter's been talking about it all year (and calling the exodus premature). It's been obvious on release lists *insert Stumpokapow posts* for quite a long time. They'd have to almost pull back support for Kinect to not outpace significant support for Wii.

Go ahead. syh.

 

[szaromir]

Not really, the games which will make or break Move include Killzone 3, LBP2, Socom etc, the big guns for the controller have yet to release. Way too premature to be talking about Move being a success or failure at this point, there is currently shit games for it however KZ3, LBP2, Socom etc will change that. If sales for Move remain flat once those three have released it's panic time but for now I don't think Sony are sweating at all about it, the real support it still to come. Mine is just gathering dust at present, still have no idea at all why I decided to buy it at release and not next month. It's the big budget games that will sell Move, not fucking emulating drinking a potion.

How are these games different from Heavy Rain, MAG, NBA 2k11 etc. It's just an alternative control method, will people feel the need to "upgrade" for them?

 

[Zoe]

Why would a person want to invest $100 in playing games that could also beplayed with the regular pack-in controller?

Some people claim it's better. Of course that's just more of catering to the core though. I doubt new customers will be buying the KZ gun.

 

[Baki]

3rd-parties have already by and large abandoned the Wii. Pachter's been talking about it all year (and calling the exodus premature). It's been obvious on release lists *insert Stumpokapow posts* for quite a long time. They'd have to almost pull back support for Kinect to not outpace significant support for Wii.

Go ahead. syh.

To an extent, I can understand why they would not support the Wii before. Especially traditional developers, since the kind of games they want to make may not necessarily be the blockbuster hits that they would be on the PS360 (Completely unrelated, but funny how Wii60 ending up becoming PS360. Sony and MS should just team up already). But to abandon the Wii to develop non-traditional "casual" games for a platform which occupies a smaller marketshare than the one that the Wii currently occupies is almost madness.

 

[allan-bh]

No word about PSP hardware sales?

 

[charlequin]

Loving all the "Yes but Epic Mickey doesnt count cuz blablabla".

I see less "Epic Mickey doesn't count" and more people either reveling in or cursing the irony that Wii's first third-party success in ages is also an unexpectedly large critical disappointment.

Look at this months NPD chart. Developers would be crazy, (and I mean absolutely batshit insane) to abandon the Wii in favour of Kinect.

how do you abandon something you don't have in the first place

 

[Zoe]

The latter.

What's wrong with that? The success of something sub-par just encourages more of the same.

(disclaimer: I have not played EM and am not commenting on its quality)

 

[Baki]

I see less "Epic Mickey doesn't count" and more people either reveling in or cursing the irony that Wii's first third-party success in ages is also an unexpectedly large critical disappointment.



how do you abandon something you don't have in the first place

I was referring to what little support they currently give the Wii. :lol

 

[Celine]

No word about PSP hardware sales?

Rumor is 429K.
Take it with a pinch of salt though.

12.) Wii Nov 2008: 2.04 million

What could have done the Wii in December 2008 have the stocks been there.
It's a pity.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Why would a person want to invest $100 in playing games that could also be played with the regular pack-in controller?

Exactly, why it needs a Killer Move Exclusive. Not many people are gonna invest more than they have too.

 

[Karma]

1.14 million copies of Gran Turismo 5 have been sold in the US and Canada thus far

 

[Penguin]

What's wrong with that? The success of something sub-par just encourages more of the same.

(disclaimer: I have not played EM and am not commenting on its quality)

I wouldn't mind it encouraging more in this case since we aren't exactly drowning in games like Epic Mickey.

I think it shows potential for other Disney licenses to be re-imagined. And that Mario isn't the only platformer in town.

 

[Burai]

I see less "Epic Mickey doesn't count" and more people either reveling in or cursing the irony that Wii's first third-party success in ages is also an unexpectedly large critical disappointment.

It also adds further nonsense to the widely held opinion from Wii-Age that it's actually really easy to sell traditional third party Wii games so long as they follow whatever arbitrary template best fits this month.

"Third party traditional Wii games can sell so long as they use a massively popular licence, are advertised really well, are produced by a PC development god and are unfinished and control like an early PSone platformer."

 

[slit]

i think you're seriously overestimating developers/publishers. they will ignore the reality of the situation in favour of the stigma attached to the wii. see also the handhelds and pc

Maybe, but I think this situation is different. I think the reason Wii was left behind by publishers for traditional games was because the Wii was so underpowered and used such a different control scheme compared to the HD twins, that even though Wii was selling like gangbusters, publishers who wanted to push the envelope could justify skipping Wii by having two other viable platforms. The Kinect and Wii play to the same userbase, however, therefore if a company wants to publish a Kinect game that envelope no longer needs to be pushed and Microsoft would have to lay down some major bling to get independent publishers to leave the Wii's casual market behind in favor of Kinect exclusivity.

 

[TacticalFox88]

1.14 million copies of Gran Turismo 5 have been sold in the US and Canada thus far

Were most of Prologue's sales in Europe though? Man that's depressing. Sony's high selling franchises from last gen, don't have that selling power anymore.

 

[Zoe]

I wouldn't mind it encouraging more in this case since we aren't exactly drowning in games like Epic Mickey.

I think it shows potential for other Disney licenses to be re-imagined. And that Mario isn't the only platformer in town.

Let's pretend this is Generic Game A. What's wrong with being annoyed that a sub-par generic game does well?

 

[RurouniZel]

Let's pretend this is Generic Game A. What's wrong with being annoyed that a sub-par generic game does well?

The fact that not everyone necessarily considers the game sub-par? That maybe quite a few people have different standards for judging what is and isn't a good game?

It sometimes comes off as arrogant, depending on how the person presents it.

 

[Zen]

Were most of Prologue's sales in Europe though? Man that's depressing. Sony's high selling franchises from last gen, don't have that selling power anymore.

It's not like these sales are so much lower than GT4, though.

 

[timetokill]

So Pach thinks Sony will drop price first, eh? I guess it makes the most sense.