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[WasteLand Soldier]

I don't see much chance of them taking off to a degree that seriously threatens Nintendo, and regardless, they're going to have Wii 2 out by Q2 2012 at the latest, if they're not insane.

Don't agree here. from MS enjoying a jump in 360 sales along with LIVE doing extremely well to the surprisingly positive public reaction to kinect, it's a huge threat. While nintendo opened the livingroom up to more people for gaming, kinect along with LIVE could do more than anything nintendo has. It's the next step. Now along with playing games people can rent movies, communicate with friends and family, check their Facebook, watch netflix all in a much better experience than on wii. And nintendo already stated they aren't working on a wii successor as they were "happy" with their current position.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

This is completely wrong. Video games are not a tech driven industry. They are a content driven industry. People are buying the Wii not because they can't afford a PS3/360 but they're buying it for Wii Sports, Wii Fit, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Mario Kart Wii, etc etc.

You know what was a tech driven industry? PC gaming. See where it is now?

Don't agree here. from MS enjoying a jump in 360 sales along with LIVE doing extremely well to the surprisingly positive public reaction to kinect, it's a huge threat. While nintendo opened the livingroom up to more people for gaming, kinect along with LIVE could do more than anything nintendo has. It's the next step. Now along with playing games people can rent movies, communicate with friends and family, check their Facebook, watch netflix all in a much better experience than on wii. And nintendo already stated they aren't working on a wii successor as they were "happy" with their current position.

Of course Nintendo won't reveal anything. They're most likely working on tons of things, among them a Wii successor, but they're not dumb enough to reveal that. I'm pretty sure Sony and MS had motion-control prototypes going once the Wii came out (and probably even beforehand).

 

[see5harp]

I don't think the gap between 2nd and 3rd means anything to the hardcore gamer. For me, it's just nice to see MS get competitive this gen. Sony isn't "in trouble" but it's pretty crazy how much market share and hardcore market they have lost this time around.

 

[FoneBone]

And nintendo already stated they aren't working on a wii successor as they were "happy" with their current position.

Yeah, you're pulling that out your ass -- Iwata has repeatedly stated otherwise, although they're not ready to announce anything (duh).

While nintendo opened the livingroom up to more people for gaming, kinect along with LIVE could do more than anything nintendo has. It's the next step. Now along with playing games people can rent movies, communicate with friends and family, check their Facebook, watch netflix all in a much better experience than on wii.

None of that matters if the games don't justify a $300+ investment for most Wii owners -- and I'm convinced that by and large, they don't.

 

[Vinci]

Don't agree here. from MS enjoying a jump in 360 sales along with LIVE doing extremely well to the surprisingly positive public reaction to kinect, it's a huge threat. While nintendo opened the livingroom up to more people for gaming, kinect along with LIVE could do more than anything nintendo has. It's the next step. Now along with playing games people can rent movies, communicate with friends and family, check their Facebook, watch netflix all in a much better experience than on wii. And nintendo already stated they aren't working on a wii successor as they were "happy" with their current position.

So, not to be mean, but in your version of reality people don't have smartphones? The battle for the living room that MS and Sony thought was so important... was disrupted before either even had a chance to make it happen. By Apple.

 

[WasteLand Soldier]

Yeah, you're pulling that out your ass -- Iwata has repeatedly stated otherwise, although they're not ready to announce anything (duh).



None of that matters if the games don't justify a $300+ investment for most Wii owners -- and I'm convinced that by and large, they don't.

what are you talking about? they said this at e3 :lol they were sick of people speculating about a "wiiHD" and they put the rumor to rest. They themselves have even said their next major focus is 3ds.

and games DONT matter to wii owners. If they did you'd see more games on the charts. Tell me you dont know one person that bought a wii and wii fit then never touched it again. the wiis userbase is a fucking mess and a mystery at the same time.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

It doesn't though.

If Microsoft "beats" Sony by 2 million units or Sony "beats" Microsoft by 2 million units, what does it matter, besides to people who obsessively need to rank things? Would last generation have been manifestly different if the GameCube had beat the OG Xbox by 5 million units rather than vice versa?

I see it like when the Master System sold really well in Europe way back when. As a NES player in another country, this meant nothing to me as a kid and didn't change anything.

All systems next gen will be on equal footing and there will be no preconceived winner like there was before this gen started. No matter who comes in second place, nothing will change besides a PR bullet point for Sony and forum posters who claimed that the PS3 would dominate before it was even released will now "serve crow" to some imaginary posters who they feel say the PS3 was doomed.

 

[Tom Penny]

It's only going to ge worse for PS3 and Wii when Kinect drops. They are both going to get smacked around during the holidays.

 

[J-Rzez]

UK is more 360 focused, but everywhere else the PS3 appears to be more popular, based on my uninformed opinion. It's almost neck and neck with the 360 in Europe, apparently.

Gran Turismo 5 will surely have a big impact in EU this fall.

All they really have is GT5 to push units, and who knows how relevant that franchise still is (speaking about the US only, being an NPD thread and all). LBP2 is not going to move hardware units at all due to being a Euro-centric game, and... what else does Sony have.

I'm curious to see how well it does in the US as well. The car scene has kind of faded away here lately, probably due to the economy. But it's still alive. But you never know what kind of impact a game like Gran Turismo 5 can have. The series directly molded the automotive industry here in the states, making automakers bring over cars they never sold here since they thought there was no interest here for them, but they got so many requests due to the GT series that they brought them over, been successful with them, and still sell them to date. GT also had an influence on the "car culture" here in the states as well, igniting it before, so hopefully it'll have the same effect again.

It may also sell based on how much content it has packed into it. So far from all that we know about it, it's the most content/feature packed game probably to release on consoles, and we still may not know about all the features yet. This game has been in the oven for a long time, but unlike many other games in said situation, this one is showing why it's been in there. I do expect media outlets to rape GT5 with ball gag in mouth though. It's been in development for so long, it's a racing sim, and it's a key Sony franchise.

It'll be interesting to see how it does. Obviously WW, which is more important, it'll be Sony's highest selling title, considering that GT5P maybe the highest selling exclusive still? It was at 4.5m or so last time they said, and that game was a demo.

 

[Vinci]

what are you talking about? they said this at e3 :lol they were sick of people speculating about a "wiiHD" and they put the rumor to rest. They themselves have even said their next major focus is 3ds.

The moment a piece of hardware is finished, Nintendo begins on a new one. That's their work method, and that of every competing hardware manufacturer. The fact that they're not going to announce one anytime soon does not somehow change how the company has worked for decades.

Of course their next major focus is 3DS, it's the next piece of hardware they're releasing. The Wii's successor - and there is undoubtedly one in the works - is either not ready yet, or Nintendo feels it isn't needed from a market standpoint at this time.

 

[V_Ben]

Gran Turismo 5 will surely have a big impact in EU this fall.

I don't doubt that. I think it'll outsell one of the big shooters :lol

 

[Vic]

You know what was a tech driven industry? PC gaming. See where it is now?

It's freaky how the HD consoles took the baton from PC gaming and are now heading into the exactly similar dire situation.

 

[see5harp]

All systems next gen will be on equal footing and there will be no preconceived winner like there was before this gen started.

Are you talking simply sales numbers? It's pretty clear to me that regardless of what happens, I will most likely prefer whatever MS has planned just based on how complete 360/Live experience has been this gen. I suspect that's the general opinion for a majority of gamers in the U.S., at least.

 

[FoneBone]

what are you talking about? they said this at e3 :lol they were sick of people speculating about a "wiiHD" and they put the rumor to rest.

Yeah, good luck pointing me to that (nonexistent) quote. :lol

I do not think that there is an immediate need to replace the Wii console... but of course, at some point in the future, that need will arise. We currently do not have an answer as to what point in the future that need will come.

We are of course studying and developing the next console to Wii. However, there is a big difference between studying a product and announcing what it is and when we will release it. I am afraid to say that the history of entertainment is also the history of imitation. A great idea will promptly be copied unless protected through patents. At the same time, it is really important for our business to positively surprise people. Will you be surprised by our completed product if we told you how it is surprising three years in advance? Therefore, we basically disclose information on our products as late as possible. We believe this is the best approach for the entertainment products we are developing. Again, we are planning the next products for Nintendo's continuous growth, but we cannot tell you what, when and how we will release it here. Thank you for your understanding.

 

[itxaka]

It doesn't though.

If Microsoft "beats" Sony by 2 million units or Sony "beats" Microsoft by 2 million units, what does it matter, besides to people who obsessively need to rank things? Would last generation have been manifestly different if the GameCube had beat the OG Xbox by 5 million units rather than vice versa?

I think it does a lot. Not only to ms perception as a brand that is on par or above the ps brand but for investors too. Being the best selling HD console ( as they put it ) enforces the brand a lot.

 

[Boney]

And did you Watch the epic mickey portion of bonus round a couple weeks back? If not do yourself a favor and head over to gametrailers.

I didn't.. could you give me an overview?

 

[J-Rzez]

Is it me or has this generation really slowed down?
Sales numbers aren't that high, there aren't many big releases in the near (or even far) future and the new hardware (Move/Natal) doesn't seem too interesting (at least for me).

Not to mention the fact that most people would agree that the #1 system has the worst library.

I feel the same way too. I'm getting the traditional "generational fatigue" that I get every-single-gen around this time. Yes, we may get a handful of the best games the gen has to offer in this period, but overall quality games start to become far and few between. I want the next latest and greatest consoles now.

The Wii is a weird system indeed (especially considering how people still think WiiPlay is a game, instead of an extra controller with an additional demo packed in). But then again, it was never targeted at core gamers in the first place. They wanted a new market, and they got it. They alienated many core gamers, including some of their own faithful for a while there, and it came at the expense of even further 3rd party support though, and one has to wonder how that will translate into "next-gen".

Sept. numbers will ve very interesting. I'll be picking up Reach bundle 360. Speaking of which, anyone need a 120 gb elite?

The slim is already selling to repeat 360 owners. In all my years of gaming, yes, sometimes I bought a 2nd and once a 3rd console due to breakages, or new-improved models. But many 360 owners are a special breed. I know SO many people that bought their 4th or 5th (and more) console iteration already, and that's not replacing broken consoles even. And that's just around me, in which I'm sure it's like that elsewhere.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Are you talking simply sales numbers? It's pretty clear to me that regardless of what happens, I will most likely prefer whatever MS has planned just based on how complete 360/Live experience has been this gen. I suspect that's the general opinion for a majority of gamers in the U.S., at least.

I'm talking in regards to third party support. Games. That's all that matters.

I think it does a lot. Not only to ms perception as a brand that is on par or above the ps brand but for investors too. Being the best selling HD console ( as they put it ) enforces the brand a lot.

Perception only matters to fanboys on forums. No matter who finishes second, the same games are going to be made for both systems this gen and they will both be on equal footing with third parties when next gen starts.

Again, either one outselling the other by a small margin is only going to be a PR bullet point and nothing else. I would say Sony did more damage to their perception dropping from first to third and launching at an obnoxious price and MS did more damage to their perception with the RROD fiasco.

 

[Sydle]

I think it does a lot. Not only to ms perception as a brand that is on par or above the ps brand but for investors too. Being the best selling HD console ( as they put it ) enforces the brand a lot.

It might have mattered a couple of years ago, but now both of the HD consoles have established equal footing in the market space. They're both established as viable investments to the investors, developers, and gamers. Nothing is going to change that unless there's a huge upset (e.g., Kinect and Move effects).

I don't think the gap between 2nd and 3rd means anything to the hardcore gamer. For me, it's just nice to see MS get competitive this gen. Sony isn't "in trouble" but it's pretty crazy how much market share and hardcore market they have lost this time around.

Not at all. My 360 gets the most attention because of Live and it doesn't look like Sony is going to match it for the full experience any time soon.

I don't understand all the PS3 fans talking about catching the 360 as a victory. They lost a tremendous amount of marketshare this gen and nothing, NOTHING is going to change that. Beating 360 by a couple million is a hollow victory at best, because in the grand scheme it's a pretty even split, and they're both losing to Nintendo.

 

[Stumpokapow]

I think it does a lot. Not only to ms perception as a brand that is on par or above the ps brand but for investors too. Being the best selling HD console ( as they put it ) enforces the brand a lot.

Alternatively, if MS slips to third, they'll just correctly claim that they've more than doubled the sales they got this generation.

 

[Vinci]

It might have mattered a couple of years ago, but now both of the HD consoles have established equal footing in the market space. They're both established as viable investments to the investors, developers, and gamers.

You say this as if it just happened to turn out this way. It didn't. The fact that it's relatively easy to port between them is the only reason the HD market has done any good at all. It's brought virtually any and all 3rd party exclusives to an end just in order to make itself at all sustainable.

In essence, for that to have happened, the PS3 and 360 needed one another. Hell, they even needed the PC in some respects.

 

[FrankT]

I guess it's possible, but when the Wii has sold to 1/3rd of the households in America and is still selling at a faster rate than the PS2, it's a drop in the bucket. You're talking about statistical noise here.

HW perhaps, but SW we are not talking about statistical noise anymore. The entire SW decline this year has been pretty much due to the Wii. 360 sw marketshare has remained about the same, but PS3 has gained quite a bit and looks like it has directly taken share at the cost of the Wii if that chart from JVM is correct a couple of months back. So it certainly matters from a revenue perspective. I think that also says a lot about the whole gap discussions between these platforms as while the Wii keeps on kicking it’s giving SW marketshare along the way all year long.

 

[jmdajr]

surprised at dragon quest

good job 360

 

[Nirolak]

HW perhaps, but SW we are not talking about statistical noise anymore. The entire SW decline this year has been pretty much due to the Wii. 360 sw marketshare has remained about the same, but PS3 has gained quite a bit and looks like it has directly taken share at the cost of the Wii if that chart from JVM is correct a couple of months back. So it certainly matters from a revenue perspective. I think that also says a lot about the whole gap discussions between these platforms as while the Wii keeps on kicking it’s giving SW marketshare along the way all year long.

Yeah, this was always the main downside of lacking third party support.

Nintendo is not a large enough company to make as many games to replace the support of an entire industry, and they don't have staff that makes games in a variety of popular genres.

Nintendo has high enough quality games to keep their hardware selling, but they can't keep those consumers heavily engaged based solely on their own content.

 

[Vinci]

HW perhaps, but SW we are not talking about statistical noise anymore. The entire SW decline this year has been pretty much due to the Wii. 360 sw marketshare has remained about the same, but PS3 has gained quite a bit and looks like it has directly taken share at the cost of the Wii if that chart from JVM is correct a couple of months back. So it certainly matters from a revenue perspective. I think that also says a lot about the whole gap discussions between these platforms as while the Wii keeps on kicking it’s giving SW marketshare along the way all year long.

I'm not saying the Wii hasn't slipped from the sort of sales it once enjoyed, but when it spent the better part of three years breaking records month after month, it's very easy for it to diminish over time relative to its prior performance. Also: The lack of significant 3rd party support of any kind is hurting it, whereas MS and Sony have enough to generate interest (after all, they're sharing the support).

The Wii is behaving like a typical console, the 360 and PS3 are not. Why? Well, this is the first generation in which the leading console doesn't get 3rd party support, whereas the losing consoles get the vast majority of it. This has resulted in a great deal of money lost on the part of many 3rd parties, but is also serving to keep the two systems alive for a longer period than a console usually does.

Again, in that case, it's about software.

 

[thirty]

I didn't.. could you give me an overview?

Episode 407. Chapter 4 last segment.

 

[jvm]

Top 20 is up!

Edit: Would like to add this amusing tidbit. When I was double-checking what Wipeout: The Game was, I ran across its Amazon page. The Wii version? Doesn't even have a boxshot!

See here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0039XZGXG/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Penguin]

Really Wipeout made it into the Top 20?

Interesting.

 

[Vinci]

I'm assuming WSR has finally reached near saturation of the Wii market prior to the release of its bundling - it finally is not in the Top 20.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Originally Posted by Olivero:

Sept. numbers will ve very interesting. I'll be picking up Reach bundle 360. Speaking of which, anyone need a 120 gb elite?


The slim is already selling to repeat 360 owners. In all my years of gaming, yes, sometimes I bought a 2nd and once a 3rd console due to breakages, or new-improved models. But many 360 owners are a special breed. I know SO many people that bought their 4th or 5th (and more) console iteration already, and that's not replacing broken consoles even. And that's just around me, in which I'm sure it's like that elsewhere.

The thing is, those consoles don't just go to a landfill or a closet, they get ebay'd or handed to friends/relatives. Like the DS, this increases the effective game buying userbase even without a new owner/new console combo at retail.

 

[Nirolak]

Edit: Would like to add this amusing tidbit. When I was double-checking what Wipeout: The Game was, I ran across its Amazon page. The Wii version? Doesn't even have a boxshot!

See here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0039XZGXG/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I remember when someone made a thread about the game titled something like "Wipeout Finally Coming To The Wii". :lol

Wipeout. On Wii? What?

Did you miss the news? Sony went third party last week.

Spoiler

It's a licensed game based on a Reality TV show.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Wipeout. On Wii? What?

Not the futuristic racer.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Mainstream doesn't care about HD the same way you do. This issue has been driven into dust over the last several years - it's a non-issue.

If the mainstream doesn't care about HD why are HDTV's some of the hottest selling items around Christmas time at WalMart, Target, Best Buy, and other big block stores?

I think we underestimate the wants of this elusive "mainstream" we pretend to be experts on.

 

[Boney]

Superior Silver!

And what's this WipeOut thing?

 

[Sydle]

It's a game based on the reality TV show.

 

[crazy monkey]

wipeout yeeeee :lol

 

[Vinci]

If the mainstream doesn't care about HD why are HDTV's some of the hottest selling items around Christmas time at WalMart, Target, Best Buy, and other big block stores?

I think we underestimate the wants of this elusive "mainstream" we pretend to be experts on.

See many huge TVs on Best Buy shelves that aren't HD?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

If the mainstream doesn't care about HD why are HDTV's some of the hottest selling items around Christmas time at WalMart, Target, Best Buy, and other big block stores?

Because they're more or less the only TVs on the market and they're flat.

I will bet you $100 that let's say 3 out of 5 of those people buying HDTVs don't actually use HD signals or wires.

I think we underestimate the wants of this elusive "mainstream" we pretend to be experts on.

We do!

But that does not mean all assumptions are wrong even if some are.

 

[chubigans]

All you need to know about Wipeout, in one glorious Quick Look: http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-wipeout-the-game/17-2860/

 

[larvi]

If the mainstream doesn't care about HD why are HDTV's some of the hottest selling items around Christmas time at WalMart, Target, Best Buy, and other big block stores?

I think we underestimate the wants of this elusive "mainstream" we pretend to be experts on.

Are the people buying them because they are HD or because of the large screen size, smaller form factor or just because everyone else has them?

 

[Rad-]

If the mainstream doesn't care about HD why are HDTV's some of the hottest selling items around Christmas time at WalMart, Target, Best Buy, and other big block stores?

I think we underestimate the wants of this elusive "mainstream" we pretend to be experts on.

There are non-HD TVs for sale? Not here.

 

[Pureauthor]

If the mainstream doesn't care about HD why are HDTV's some of the hottest selling items around Christmas time at WalMart, Target, Best Buy, and other big block stores?

I think we underestimate the wants of this elusive "mainstream" we pretend to be experts on.

Because it has been statistically shown that the vast majority of HD players are being used to watch SD content.

 

[evangd007]

If the mainstream doesn't care about HD why are HDTV's some of the hottest selling items around Christmas time at WalMart, Target, Best Buy, and other big block stores?

Try to buy an SDTV. You can't, they are not offered anymore. I, and many others, have said this before, and I shall say it one more time: HDTVs do not sell because they are HD. They are sold because they are "flatscreen" and aesthetically pleasing.

 

[flyinpiranha]

Because they're more or less the only TVs on the market and they're flat.

I will bet you $100 that let's say 3 out of 5 of those people buying HDTVs don't actually use HD signals or wires.


We do!

But that does not mean all assumptions are wrong even if some are.

It does have to do with availability but we're talking $1000 TV's here, anybody that doesn't care would just look in paper or an ad for sale.

I'm not saying that EVERY person uses HD on their TV's but we completely underestimate the "wow" factor people get in a store. The Wii didn't sell because it was sub-HD, it sold because it was 'new' and word of mouth AND the cheapest on the market.

I just think more people care about HD than what we think here at GAF.

I might have been somewhat wrong in my assumption about HDTV's because I don't think I'm wrong with the acceptance and desire for HD signals.

 

[farnham]

Wii Party already sold a ton the few weeks it came out in Japan.

But I agree it probably won't be a console-moving title. At this stage (4-5 years into cycle), it won't be a 'single' title to move console. It will be a combination of several factors such as price drop, library of titles, console popularity and reputation etc.

as i said price drop seems to be likely around holiday

the wii still is at a relatively high price and a drop to 150 would definately help

they do have the popularity and reputation still and with wii party on top of that they could get a decent holiday.

 

[WasteLand Soldier]

even if there was a wiihd launch in 2012, unless its well beyond the power of ps360 it'll be pointless. who'd but a new nintendo console just to match the power of something that already out? and nintendo have never lead in hardware tech. maybe n64 but thats a stretch.

 

[Vinci]

I just think more people care about HD than what we think here at GAF.

I might have been somewhat wrong in my assumption about HDTV's because I don't think I'm wrong with the acceptance and desire for HD signals.

This comment addresses that issue:

Because it has been statistically shown that the vast majority of HD players are being used to watch SD content.

Seriously. Even people who have HDTVs and a HD game system often don't use the proper cables. It's a moot point. Most people don't care about HD.

even if there was a wiihd launch in 2012, unless its well beyond the power of ps360 it'll be pointless. who'd but a new nintendo console just to match the power of something that already out? and nintendo have never lead in hardware tech. maybe n64 but thats a stretch.

Because there isn't going to be a WiiHD. HD buys them nothing, which is why they're not going to go HD with a console till there's something else compelling about it.

 

[Boney]

All you need to know about Wipeout, in one glorious Quick Look: http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-wipeout-the-game/17-2860/

Wii developers... MAKE SIDESCROLLERS!!

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I don't think people are anti-HD, just apathetic.

 

[jvm]

Me: "Do you know what kind of TV you were looking for?"
Customer: "Well I want a TV that is 1080p."
Me: "What are you planning to hook up to the new TV?"
Customer: "Just basic cable and a DVD player"
ME: -.-

I bet most of those people have digital cable. In my region, the dominant monopoly moved to digital cable for everyone. My conversations with neighbors and relatives who have digital cable believe that digital and high-definition are the same. I recently watched a relative flipping between channels on a 42" television and telling me which were HD and and which weren't -- and getting it wrong. (I held my tongue. Discretion and all that.)

I should say that I hate my local cable monopoly, so I'm not an unbiased observer.