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NYT: Democrats: ‘Our Brand Is Worse Than Trump’

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/21/us/pelosi-georgia-ossoff-democrats.html
Democrats scrambled to regroup on Wednesday after a disappointing special election defeat in Georgia, with lawmakers, activists and labor leaders speaking out in public and private to demand a more forceful economic message heading into the 2018 elections.

Among Democrats in Washington, the setback in Georgia revived or deepened a host of existing grievances about the party, accentuating tensions between moderate lawmakers and liberal activists and prompting some Democrats to question the leadership and political strategy of Nancy Pelosi, the House minority leader.
“The Democratic caucus is united in our view that our message, heading into 2018, should be aggressively focused on job creation and economic growth,” Representative Hakeem Jeffries of New York, a member of the Democratic leadership team, said on Wednesday morning.

Representative Seth Moulton, Democrat of Massachusetts, said the defeat was “frustrating” and urged a shake-up at the top of the party.

“Our leadership owes us an explanation,” said Mr. Moulton, who voted against Ms. Pelosi in the last leadership election. “Personally, I think it’s time for new leadership in the party
Representative Eric Swalwell of California, a third-term lawmaker close to party leaders, said Democrats would “crystallize our message on jobs, on health care” in the coming months. The results in Georgia and other special elections, he said, should encourage Democrats to campaign across a huge map of districts.

“We need to compete everywhere,” Mr. Swalwell said on Wednesday morning. “We want to be the party that’s for your job, for your health care and for your kids’ future.”
Much more at the link. I suggest people read it before posting.
 
Getting rid of Pelosi at this point would be purely symbolic and will make very little difference in terms of Dem strategy or platform.

But politics is all about symbols, so it's a no-brainer.
 

ezekial45

Banned
They desperately need new blood. Chuck Schumer is still solid, but we need younger and more hungry people to lead the party. Their message isn't gonna matter at all, even if it's valid, if the people delivering it aren't energizing people. We desperately need to bring energy back.
 
We can let Pelosi go.

As much as the right dislikes her, I have to imagine that moderate to left leaning voters aren't crazy about her either.

I know whenever she says something, a lot of eyes just seem to roll.
 

Hilbert

Deep into his 30th decade
Oh good. This sounds like they're going to abandon the social issues. /s

Definitely. The fact people are focusing on a high ranking democratic woman is no coincidence. Everyone, left or right, loves to hate on women and make them the enemy.

What the hell does Pelosi have to do with getting dems elected?
 
Is Pelosi the person in charge of getting Democrats elected? I thought that was Perez's job.
You're correct. Pelosi has nothing to do with anything. For anyone who thinks getting rid of her is in any way relevant or will fix any problems the Democrats have, I'll just quote what I've been saying elsewhere on this topic:
The counter argument here is ______________________ ?
That that isn't her goddamn job? That's on the DNC/DCCC/DSCC. If we're going to blame her and put things that have nothing to do with her entirely on her shoulders, it just demonstrates that the people making those calls have so little understanding of government and her actual job that I don't know why anyone would take such hot-takes seriously.

Unless the answer is to make that the minority leader/Speaker of the House's role and responsibilities, but it currently is not.

And beyond that, what's the solution? Because whoever replacers her Republicans will do the same goddamn thing to because they're entire line of attack against her is that she was Speaker of the House in the past, and could be again. That's something they could literally do to ANYONE. Not at first, but with time.

So the solution to that is... what exactly? Never keep anyone as Speaker/Minority Leader for more than 2 years? That ain't a good way to build up experience and actually let people become competent at the job! That and it certainly doesn't help the DNC or whatever institutions you think the Minority Leader/Speaker of the House should be working with to elect more D's to actually become a well-oiled machine if our leaders are constantly coming and going, coming and going, coming and going.

And if you don't replace them just like that, then Republicans will have the ability to do with anyone what they did with Pelosi, since their entire line of attack is that she was a Democratic Minority Leader of the House/Speaker of the House, and that's a no good, very bad, terrible thing.

So what's the solution to that exactly? Because I damn well haven't heard one. Either we make Minority Leader/Speaker of the House a revolving door position, or Republicans will do to whomever your replacement ends up being the same they did to Pelosi?

What's the solution to that Catch-22 situation? Until someone can actually answer that, you can all shut the fuck up about Nancy Pelosi and how terrible she is for Democrats based on fucking Republican attack ads that we don't even have a goddamn clue about whether they had any effect on who these people voted for and whether or not they would have voted the same way regardless, and the hit take from that being a solution that would have us wind up in the same position (new Minority Leader/Speaker of the House being demonized just like Pelosi) or worse (the Speaker becoming an ineffective revolving door position for Democrats trying to avoid Pelosi style attacks and shooting themselves in the feet in the process by the works bring gummed up and no one being able to gain experience in the position, which Republicans would also no doubt turn into attack ads about how terrible Democrats are since they can't even keep a leader on board for more than 2 years or whatever and how can you trust such an unstable party like that regardless).

Until I can hear an answer to THAT any hot takes about Pelosi can find their way to the nearest dumpster because unless you can resolve that Catch-22, they're useless and involve tossing an effective fundraiser (among her actual jobs) to the curb just to find ourselves in the same or a worse situation regardless.
 

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
Read between th elines, they're saying social issues don't matter anymore now.
If Pelosi goes, republican leadership will jump for joy.
Perez is the person who's effectiveness should be in question. You have a whole bunch of these dems that are actually centrists and not leftists.They need to go themselves, they don't like Pelosi's progressiveness.

Anyway, what a dumb strategy. This election was all about job creation, you can't just run the same kind of election. People have already been burnt by lies about job creation (for white folks), just stop what you're doing and go full on progressive. It works.
 

TyrantII

Member
Breathe.

Turning a R+20 district into a R+5, the ine that gave us Gingrich, is good.

What's not good is they need to figure out how to do that that over 1000's of races consecutive years. When funding isn't as abundant.
 

Neoweee

Member
Is Pelosi the person in charge of getting Democrats elected? I thought that was Perez's job.

Neither of their jobs. DCCC is approximately in charge of congressional races.

GA-6 was somewhere between an R+10 and R+20 district, about. I think people are overreacting to the loss.
 

Guevara

Member
I think it's a good lesson.

Democrats can't win on "NOT TRUMP" alone

They have to offer something positive. People don't vote against, they vote for.
 

War Peaceman

You're a big guy.
The advantage and disadvantage Republicans have is that they have a figurehead. This humanises their cause for them.

Democrats don't have a challenger yet, which makes it harder to rally around.

It is absurd to say their brand is worse than Trump. Republicans in a strongly republican district voted for a Republican. They have a deeply corrupt President who is incapable of doing the job. The votes will come.

Also: Ossoff did not run on an anti-Trump message at all. he ran on exactly what the article calls for - jobs and healthcare.
 
The only people who want Pelosi out are

1) Republicans

2) True Liberals

It's always fun watching people fall step and foot behind republican talking points.

Republicans create boogie man and target them for their message. Obama, Clinton, now Pelosi is their boogieman.
 
The message for 2018 should be how much of a fuck up Trump and a Republican lead government has been since the election. Focus on job creation is just the Dems missing the mark. Again.
 

Dierce

Member
Oh good. This sounds like they're going to abandon the social issues.

This is what I've feared all along. They will legitimize bigots or at the very least tolerate bigoted rhetoric believing that it will win back the white rural vote.

That would be a massive loss on all fronts. Even if that were to happen democrats would have to contend with the misinformation campaign by republicans.

Fox News isn't going away and even if suddenly the democratic platform was completely devoid of calling for gun control legislation they would still say democrats are for it.
 

Blader

Member
They need some fresh blood.

If only the party had some kind of leadership election to do just that... ah well, guess we're stuck with Donna Brazile.

As their main talking points? Great. They should.

The point is to get in office. They can devote more attention to social issues once they get there.

If the point is to get in office, then ignoring a core part of the party's platform and the base's interest in that platform seems like a bad way of going about it.
 

TyrantII

Member
I think it's a good lesson.

Democrats can't win on "NOT TRUMP" alone

They have to offer something positive. People don't vote against, they vote for.

Ossy didn't run on not Trump, he also didn't run on healthcare.

He ran on economics and the deficit.
 
This is a lose-lose situation. Pelosi is an extremely competent politician. The Left throwing her to the wolves because the right-wing says they have to is giving the Right a victory and getting nothing in return - they'll simply move on to making a boogeyman out of the next closest woman in a leadership position. They're already laying the groundwork for making sure people know Kamala Harris is a witch sent to give their money to the poors.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Neither of their jobs. DCCC is approximately in charge of congressional races.

GA-6 was somewhere between an R+10 and R+20 district, about. I think people are overreacting to the loss.

Every loss is going to result in people on the losing side pushing their own agenda, regardless of if it would actually help win or not.
 

Slayven

Member
You not going to steal The GOP base, they came out and voted for a person that said "I don't believe in a livable wage"
 

Ogodei

Member
Job creation is such a nothingburger of a political point, given the current unemployment rate.

If your message is "job creation and growth" then why the fuck am i even voting for you over the GOP?

Healthcare, wages, infrastructure (esp. moving the country off of fossil fuels, which would be a big infrastructure boom). Consumer protections, student debt relief, a fairer tax code (moving the burden off of wage earners and onto capitalists)

What a damn toothless message that is. Par for the course for the Democratic party of my lifetime.
 
Their message for 2018 is job creation?

Fucking hell we really are doomed.

"Guys what if we 1) Run the same message as the GOP on jobs and 2) Do it at a point in time where unemployment is at it's lowest in almost two decades?"

If this is seriously their chief platform strategy, stay losing.
 

kirblar

Member
The only people who want Pelosi out are

1) Republicans

2) True Liberals

It's always fun watching people fall step and foot behind republican talking points.

Republicans create boogie man and target them for their message. Obama, Clinton, now Pelosi is their boogieman.
I wonder how much of this is group 2 having grown up listening to group 1 on TV and rebelled against it without realizing how much of it they've internalized.
And then when Pelosi is gone the same folks will call for the jettisoning of the next Democrat the GOP targets.
female Democrat*
 
As their main talking points? Great. They should.

The point is to get in office. They can devote more attention to social issues once they get there.

And what stops democrats from alienating those groups that need help? What forces democrats to focus on social issues once they are in if they only got in by abandoning those people?

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't democrats talk jobs a lot in the 2016 election? It just didn't get covered?
 

TyrantII

Member
You not going to steal The GOP base, they came out and voted for a person that said "I don't believe in a livable wage"

Yep. The only ones up for grabs are the ones that don't vote. The 48%. Not easy, but they're the only ones you have a chance with.

The GOP is to ignorant and too indoctrinated by their propaganda. You're not going to flip them.
 
Well I mean they had to lose to Trump and then lose every special election after Trump was elected to figure out how sclerotic and decrepit they have become but at least they are sort of slowly figuring it out.

Progress, I guess?

The problem is that the Democrats are just as beholden to their donors as the Republicans and so I don't foresee any real economic message emerging. I mean their donors thought Hillary "The TPP is the Gold Standard of trade agreements" Clinton was the best person to go against Trump.
 

Sulik2

Member
They should campaign on universal healthcare, clean energy and free college paid for by higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy. If that isn't their message they are not differentiating themselves from Republicans on the things that will actual affect millions of people's day to day lives and the GOP will continue to mop the floor with them by appealing to racism and fear. You have to give people something to hope for, not just, "hey we are less evil then the other party, vote for us."
 
How do I get in on that Democratic consulting money where I do nothing but say "Do what the Republicans are doing"?

For people saying to get rid of Pelosi, they'll just find another effigy to burn. "Keith Ellison is a MUSLIM" or some shit.
 
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