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[TheLostBigBoss]

I wonder how much of this is group 2 having grown up listening to group 1 on TV and rebelled against it without realizing how much of it they've internalized.

I personally know someone who grew up on Fox News and extreme conservatism, but hates republicans, yet somehow is able to constantly shit out all the same talking points.

 

[Makonero]

Democrats need to get their fucking house in order. Convene an emergency meeting, hammer this shit out, and get unified on a message that appeals to people. Not vagueness, not Republican-lite, but a genuine vision for what you want the country to be. Status quo DOESN'T FUCKING APPEAL TO ANYONE RIGHT NOW.

 

[ezekial45]

You not going to steal The GOP base, they came out and voted for a person that said "I don't believe in a livable wage"

Yes. While there is a section of the base that will turn, the majority will vote GOP till their dying day. Even when the people that they vote for are actively chipping away at their livelihood, dignity, and quality of life. Voting democrat is not an option they'll even dare consider. Those people are lost causes, and they deserve whatever they get.

However, I still believe that a sizable amount of them can flip, which is what the dems should focus on, along with finding ways to energize their base.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Maybe we can ask the RNC for approval first before we pick potential Dem leaders.

 

[zero_suit]

The number one issue should be healthcare, especially if the GOP pushes its terrible bill through.

Jobs? Isn't the current unemployment rate around 5 percent?

 

[Kimawolf]

The fact is Republicans are good... great at demonizing someone and making them out to be monsters. They have talk radio and an entire network to help.

The message is " omg Ossef he is lil Pelosi!! He will march abortions down yoir block!" All conservative media is on that page.

There is no liberal comparative!

 

[excelsiorlef]

Well I mean they had to lose to Trump and then lose every special election after Trump was elected to figure out how sclerotic and decrepit they have become but at least they are sort of slowly figuring it out.

Progress, I guess?

They were never supposed to win those special elections.

They only existed because they were folks picked by the Admin from extremely Republican areas.

 

[Rockandrollclown]

Jesus, we're getting 8 years of Trump if he's not impeached.

 

[MThanded]

I think moving further to the left is a mistake too. In reality it seems like you have to make some appeals or you can't win with the current electorate.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Democrats need to get their fucking house in order. Convene an emergency meeting, hammer this shit out, and get unified on a message that appeals to people. Not vagueness, not Republican-lite, but a genuine vision for what you want the country to be. Status quo DOESN'T FUCKING APPEAL TO ANYONE RIGHT NOW.

Sounds easy!

It's not like the Democrats are literally a culmination of tons of minority groups and large population centers in already liberal areas.

 

[deadlast]

Like for fuck sake, SINGLE. PAYER. HEALTHCARE.

That won't work since everyone is still blaming Obama for Health Care (and everything else). The Republicans will just say, "you haven't given us a chance."

Democrats need some bull shit they can't deliver on but people want. It's what Republicans do. They just blame the other side when they can't give what they promise. If NP is such a polarizing figure, change to someone else and start attacking Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell.

 

[timetokill]

And then when Pelosi is gone the same folks will call for the jettisoning of the next Democrat the GOP targets.

Surely the Democrats will eventually find somebody the GOP likes!

 

[Dierce]

Maybe we can ask the RNC for approval first before we pick potential Dem leaders.

That seems to be the plan for these so called 'far left' progressives. They are a joke and don't represent the progressive movement. It's mostly made up of white people who have never felt discriminated so they wouldn't care about giving bigots a platform within the democratic party.

 

[crowphoenix]

And the one after that. "Left" are so worried about how they look to people that despise them, they losing the people that are down for them

That is a really good point. We need more people on the left that don't care if the right hates them. We need young blood, and people that energize the base.

 

[Gutek]

The number one issue should be healthcare, especially if the GOP pushes its terrible bill through.

Jobs? Isn't the current unemployment rate around 5 percent?

If you guys don't think "jobs jobs jobs" helped Trump get elected in the Rust Belt, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Plinko]

Surely the Democrats will eventually find somebody the GOP likes!

It's not about finding anyone the GOP likes. It's about finding someone that hasn't been a figurehead and GOP boogeyman for a decade.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Give 👏Us 👏 A 👏 Plan 👏

Give us something. Regardless of how you feel about the actual policies, Jeremy Corbyns Labour manifesto at least had something to point to as to why they deserve your vote

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Sounds easy!

It's not like the Democrats are literally a culmination of tons of minority groups and large population centers in already liberal areas.

Well they're going to have to figure something out. And fast. Otherwise the losses will continue.

If Dems can't take the House in 2018....

 

[TyrantII]

And then when Pelosi is gone the same folks will call for the jettisoning of the next Democrat the GOP targets.

A bastardized version of True Scottsman fallacy.

It's amazing how many don't realize how they have internalized GOP propaganda against their own. Hillary is a great example, with that deep feeling of loathing that liberals can't explain rationally, but will blurts out how crooked she was!

They've also pushed the both sides fallacy and voting doesn't matter fallacy. It's totally be internalized by the middle class, the ones under attack by their policies. Meanwhile they dump billions into GOTV efforts for their minority base.

People need to wake up.

 

[entremet]

Democrats need to get their fucking house in order. Convene an emergency meeting, hammer this shit out, and get unified on a message that appeals to people. Not vagueness, not Republican-lite, but a genuine vision for what you want the country to be. Status quo DOESN'T FUCKING APPEAL TO ANYONE RIGHT NOW.

If younger demos voted reliably, we would be in much better shape. They just don't historically.

 

[Maxim726X]

That won't work since everyone is still blaming Obama for Health Care (and everything else). The Republicans will just say, "you haven't given us a chance."

Democrats need some bull shit they can't deliver on but people want. It's what Republicans do. They just blame the other side when they can't give what they promise. If NP is such a polarizing figure, change to someone else and start attacking Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell.

Yes it will. Say it will cover everyone and will cost less. Almost nothing!

Also, offer free education. Because this electorate doesn't have the mental capacity to comprehend that this would inevitably lead to higher taxes.

While we're at it, promise a cap to the wealthy! And free money for everyone else!

Is any of this possible? Of course not! But who gives a shit? Trump has gotten almost none of this accomplished but here we are. Facts don't matter- Grandiose empty promises do.

 

[SliceSabre]

Give 👏Us 👏 A 👏 Plan 👏

Give us something. Regardless of how you feel about the actual policies, Jeremy Corbyns Labour manifesto at least had something to point to as to why they deserve your vote

Why should they?

Republicans have proven that quadrupling down on the same narrative all the time works.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

If Dems can't take the House in 2018....

....Pelosi still gets to stay?

 

[BoogieWoogie]

Don't worry guys, Democrats can just curse more and say they're not sorry. WINNING STRATEGY

 

[kirblar]

Please please please please read this - https://www.voterstudygroup.org/reports/2016-elections/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond

The Dems didn't draw the dividing lines - https://www.voterstudygroup.org/reports/2016-elections/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond

But we have to fight on them.

The primary conflict structuring the two parties involves questions of national identity, race, and morality, while the traditional conflict over economics, though still important, is less divisive now than it used to be. This has the potential to reshape the party coalitions.

By making questions of national identity more salient, Donald Trump succeeded in winning over ”populists" (socially conservative, economically liberal voters) who had previously voted for Democrats.

To the extent that the Democratic Party is divided, these divisions are more about faith in the political system and general disaffection than they are about issue positions.

In both parties, the donor class is both more conservative on economic issues and more liberal on social issues, as compared to the rest of the party

Democrats may be pressured to move further left on identity issues, given that both younger voters and the party's donor class are quite far to the left on identity issues. If so, American politics would become further polarized along questions of culture and identity.

The whole "throw minorities under the bus in order to get massive social benefits" thing that worked for FDR won't fly in 2020.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

They were never supposed to win those special elections.

They only existed because they were folks picked by the Admin from extremely Republican areas.

So what elections are the Democrats "supposed to win"? They were supposed to win the Presidency in November, that went so incredibly well. I'm still baffled by this bizarre prevailing attitude that eternal victory will eventually be handed to Democrats on a silver platter at some indeterminate point in the near future because of data or demographics or some bullshit when the reality has been the complete opposite.

 

[The Technomancer]

There's been way too much good discussion on this topic for me to echo efficiently right now but in short order:

-To the extent that the Democratic platform needs to be "improved" its not clear in which direction it needs to improve, other than that it should be clearer. Moving in more of a Berniecrat style direction might be the right move, but that's not exactly proven (those candidates aren't putting up numbers either)

-Pelosi is a sharp political operator and one of the major reasons we can thank the Democrats in congress for being organized whatsoever over the last decade. With that said....if the material tying her to Ossoff was effective at keeping him down, fuck, I dunno, maybe she needs to go. The GOP won't have as much time to develop the hate campaign against whoever replaces her

-However the main takeaway from last night should be that people alienated from Trump are not nessecarily alienated from the GOP as a whole because they always fucking fall in line. Ossoff ran up Democrat votes, but Republicans were not depressed. They get in line and they fucking vote.

 

[BruceCLea]

Pelosi fucking sucks.

 

[ShironRedshift]

It's not about finding anyone the GOP likes. It's about finding someone that hasn't been a figurehead and GOP boogeyman for a decade.

And how the fuck do you do that unless you turn the Minority Leader/Speaker of the House into a revolving door position exactly, to prevent that exact thing from happening again once you do? Otherwise you just find yourself in the same position. There's no winning move there.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I mean, they're not wrong. The entire Democratic strategy is just taking every Republican policy and saying "that's offensive," which is kind of a problem when the party already has an image problem with regard to labeling things offensive.

 

[deadlast]

Yes it will. Say it will cover everyone and will cost less. Almost nothing!

Also, offer free education. Because this electorate doesn't have the mental capacity to comprehend that this would inevitably lead to higher taxes.

While we're at it, promise a cap to the wealthy! And free money for everyone else!

Is any of this possible? Of course not! But who gives a shit? Trump has gotten almost none of this accomplished but here we are. Facts don't matter- Grandiose empty promises do.

Vote Democrat. Vote for a Government that works for You! You are an American, You deserve better!

 

[excelsiorlef]

A bastardized version of True Scottsman fallacy.

It's amazing how many don't realize how they have internalized GOP propaganda against their own. Hillary is a great example, with that deep feeling of loathing that liberals can't explain rationally, but will blurts out how crooked she was!

They've also pushed the both sides fallacy and voting doesn't matter fallacy. It's totally be internalized by the middle class, the ones under attack by their policies. Meanwhile they dump billions into GOTV efforts for their minority base.

People need to wake up.

Biggest issue.. Republicans don't hate their party... many Democrats hate the Democrats and thus are incredibly receptive to right wing nonsense

 

[TurnipFritters]

Give 👏Us 👏 A 👏 Plan 👏

Give us something. Regardless of how you feel about the actual policies, Jeremy Corbyns Labour manifesto at least had something to point to as to why they deserve your vote

Yeah and as we all saw, Labour had a sweeping victory and can begin putting all those policies into action.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

If younger demos voted reliably, we would be in much better shape. They just don't historically.

I personally think that focus should be on higher education, health, infrastructure, and energy/climate.

Things younger voters seem to be more excited about. These policies continue to be fleshed out poorly.

Why the hell has climate change/energy not been tied to national defense concerns as an example? It addresses green issues and it touches on patriotism/defense.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Why should they?

Republicans have proven that quadrupling down on the same narrative all the time works.

Yes and that works for them because they are actually good at managing the narrative.

 

[rokkerkory]

Democrats need to get their fucking house in order. Convene an emergency meeting, hammer this shit out, and get unified on a message that appeals to people. Not vagueness, not Republican-lite, but a genuine vision for what you want the country to be. Status quo DOESN'T FUCKING APPEAL TO ANYONE RIGHT NOW.

agreed

if it ain't working, need to change it.

Pelosi needs to go.

 

[MThanded]

That is a really good point. We need more people on the left that don't care if the right hates them. We need young blood, and people that energize the base.

If you aren't willing to make any appeals to moderate right leaning voters you will have a hard time winning with the makeup of the current electorate. Most left leaning liberals are in population centers in places where the dems are already doing fine. You need pickups in more moderate places.

I'm all for liberal policies but if you can't win elections it doesn't matter what you stand for. If you keep fighting with your more moderate supporters you end up losing them to the other side and your policies never see the light of day.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Pelosi fucking sucks.

Can you articulate why you think this?

Spoiler

can anyone?

 

[Maxim726X]

Vote Democrat. Vote for a Government that works for You! You are an American, You deserve better!

Not enough empty promises with impossible end points... But a good start.

Just promise more money, better jobs, free healthcare, and free college.

Never say how.

Can you articulate why you think this?

Spoiler

can anyone?

Because she was just used, effectively, as a target for Conservative voters?

When will we learn? It worked with Hillary, too. Throw shit at the wall long enough and it eventually sticks. Pelosi has been a popular pinata for the Republicans for years and years. It has nothing to do with her as much as it does what people perceive. She's not popular on the left, and is a demi-fiend for the right. Just fucking dump it all and get fresh blood in. Schumer too.

 

[Fury451]

Donald Trump is the 45th president of the United States.

Yeah, I would say the Democrats need to do something different.

 

[Plinko]

And how the fuck do you do that unless you turn the Minority Leader/Speaker of the House into a revolving door position exactly, to prevent that exact thing from happening again once you do? Otherwise you just find yourself in the same position. There's no winning move there.

I'm not saying dump her and I've said as much in PoliGAF. It is undeniable that she is a millstone around the neck of the democratic party. Her disapproval was 35 POINTS HIGHER than her approval in GA-06. That's insane. You can't effectively win races when you are tied to someone like that.

 

[Toxi]

-However the main takeaway from last night should be that people alienated from Trump are not nessecarily alienated from the GOP as a whole because they always fucking fall in line. Ossoff ran up Democrat votes, but Republicans were not depressed. They get in line and they fucking vote.

The key to Republicans winning.

 

[firehawk12]

Democrats are going to lose so hard in 2018.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

....Pelosi still gets to stay?

Dems winning or losing races has nothing to do with Pelosi. GOP will demonize any powerful democrat as needed. And they're extremely effective at it.

 

[deadlast]

Not enough empty promises with impossible end points... But a good start.

Just promise more money, better jobs, free healthcare, and free college.

Never say how.

Change College to Education.
Jobs, Education, Healthcare. You deserve better.

 

[Blader]

Jesus, we're getting 8 years of Trump if he's not impeached.

Incumbent presidents are normally re-elected anyway, so yes you should prepare yourself for that possibility.

Also, offer free education. Because this electorate doesn't have the mental capacity to comprehend that this would inevitably lead to higher taxes.

The electorate actually has an instinctive distrust against anything offered to them for free.

Anyway, what a dumb strategy. This election was all about job creation, you can't just run the same kind of election. People have already been burnt by lies about job creation (for white folks), just stop what you're doing and go full on progressive. It works.

Where?

 

[Omegasquash]

A good starting point for the party might be to campaign on why they're good, instead of how the other guys are bad.

 

[Volimar]

This is stupid. They could announce Pelosi's replacement tomorrow and before the next day there'd be right wing sources saying how the replacement is even worse than Pelosi because of reasons. Democrats have a good platform, especially with Bernie pushing medicare for all. They need to focus more on getting out the message of what they want to do and stop with the "have you heard what Trump said about...". Also, stop trying to appeal to the insular conservatives whose minds are owned by a massively successful blackout of any unapproved media. You're not going to get through to them. Stop wasting energy trying to meet the purity tests of whiny independents. Your own people are feeling abandoned. Spend more time working to show your base what you want to do for them. Give them something to invest their interest in. Engage them and fight their apathy.

 

[excelsiorlef]

So what elections are the Democrats "supposed to win"? They were supposed to win the Presidency in November, that went so incredibly well. I'm still baffled by this bizarre prevailing attitude that eternal victory will eventually be handed to Democrats on a silver platter at some indeterminate point in the near future because of data or demographics or some bullshit when the reality has been the complete opposite.

They closed the gap in a bunch of extremely safe Republican areas...

Both Bernie people and Ossoffs alike lost recently. So by all means tell me what you want.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

It's fucking astonishing how many of you are just shitting out right wing shit without knowing it.