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Official Genso Suikoden V thread

OH MY FUCKING GOD! FUCK YOU FOR LIFE, GEO!

goddamned mother fuckers had my prereserve, but no DVD! i went to three other places and they didnt have it either! i'm so fucking fuming right now!

on top of that, those bastards had the audacity to offer me only 7200 yen for my DS. I'm going to go kill some things right now.
 
Himuro said:
Spoiler for those of you Suikoden fanboys of two certain rival characters...

Yuber and Pesmerga were mentioned on 2chan regarding a question,"Any surprise characters?"

Awesome! I hope they expand on their story.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Ok, so I played about 8 hours and finished the intro part. Here's a quick +/- breakdown of my thoughts.

+Story is good. Much better than IV, not interesting on an epic scale like III though.
+Characters are great.
+The script is good as well. Characters have distinct personalities and good lines.
+Battle system is almost like 2 and better because of formation. More on that later.
+Music is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3/4, but still <<<<<<<< 1/2. It's nice though.
+World map = yay.
+Dungeons! III/IV had none (IV had like two), so this is an improvement.
+Character art is excellent.
+Character models are excellent and have nice expressions and animation.

-Loading is not too horrible and you get used to it, but loading into battle is longer than any rpg I can remember (besides Popolocrois III). I timed it and it's about 8 secs from when you stop moving until you can choose commands. Loading out of battle is another 3 secs. Loading also interrupts cutscenes, but usually it's not like IV where a character says one line and then it loads and another character says one line and it loads. Though there are times where it gets kinda close to that. Those loads aren't too long though.
-Battles are a bit slow paced. Suikoden I/II battles were great because you'd be walking and then instantly jump into a battle and your characters would quickly jump across the screen and hit and you'd be back on the map 15 secs after you left it. Now you gotta wait for everyone to slowly do their attacks and it just takes a bit longer. Spells especially take longer than needed. This trodding pace keeps them from being as fun as I/II battles. Better than III/IV though.
-Pacing is really slow. Those who thought Xenosaga and SIV were sleep inducing may have trouble here. The game moves story-wise, movement-wise, battle-wise at a really slow pace and you just have to deal with ti.
-NPCs SUCKCKKKK. Looks like they are from rpg maker. Even the shop/blacksmith people are generic suckers.
-Towns suck. The problem isn't that they're too big. It's that they're really big and boring looking. Again like Rpg maker towns.
-Camera really sucks. The overhead view is good, but it hides doors you need to go through sometimes or paths you need to take and you literaly can't see yourself at times.
-Doesn't feel like Suikoden. I'll expand on this below.

So yeah, I'm liking it but I think a lot of that comes from my love of all games Suikoden (I mean I enjoyed IV the entire time I was playing it just like I'm enjoying V). I don't think its a good game, but I can look past that and enjoy it as a good game in terms of Suikoden games. If I = 8, II = 10, III = 6, IV = 5, then V = 7~7.5. It makes sense that famitsu gave the game a 32, which is the bottom number that all 'real' rpgs recieve. Suikoden V is at the point where it's just stepping into the quality of weak 'good' rpgs and not just a good 'bad' rpg like III/IV :p

One thing that's gonna turn off a lot of people and something that I both like/dislike is the fact that the intro is 8 hours long. By intro I mean the fetch quests, story-section in all Suikoden games before you can really do anything. In the first 8 hours you can't make your team since you never have more than 5 people; you can't collect anyone; you can't really fight except for two small dungeons that last maybe 15 mins each; you can't really explore anywhere; and the plot doesn't really start. That means for the first 8 hours it basically doesn't feel that much like Suikoden. Instead the entire first 8 hours is just walking around huge areas where you have to talk to EVERY NPC because either one of them triggers the next event, or the next event is triggered by going everywhere and talking to everyone. This is because the first 8 hours is a political story and you're mainly just gonna be reading it.

I actually enjoyed those 8 hours becauase I found the political tale to be pretty interesting and the characters well written. But at the same I'm still itching for the real Suikoden experience that I'm guessing will start next.

Another thing that is a wasted chance are these towns. Huge multi-screen towns, yet they all look boring and are filled with tiny little characters and small generic rooms. When I think of Suikoden I think of running through town looking for cool looking characters who will join my party later on. I remember there would always be a few in each town so I'd know where they were when I went party hunting later. But here you have these giant towns that are 5-10 screens big with tons of houses and 30-50 NPC characters and maybe, just maybe you'll have 1 character with a portrait that you can recruit later. Some towns don't even have a single person like that at this point. When I see a huge boring looking town with no one recruitable...it doesn't feel like I'm playing Suikoden.

These are what stores/trading centers/blacksmith shops look like:
suikodentrade.jpg


This is your average bar:
suikodenrpgmaker.jpg


This is a town:
suikodensmith.jpg


Battle system-wise...it's good stuff. The formations have special properties like the dress spheres in FFX-2 (ex. attack+2 for all members) and you can change formations on the fly mid-battle. You also have formation attacks in some formations, that have the whole party attack at once. So yeah, they're pretty good but it would've been nice if there was fast forward button.

The skill system sucks though. You get skill points and you use them to upgrade from a standard skill list of maybe 20 max and you upgrade them from F->S and equip two at a time on your character. Basically it's like the Tactics skill system except there are no interesting skills from what I've seen. All the skills are just boring "parry", "critical", "attack damage increase".

Graphics are kinda good. The characters look great but the environments are mixed. Some major areas look good, but towns and stuff can look really bad. Sometimes when there's a lot of people on screen (7-8 characters) the game slooooooows down which is noticable even when moving through dialogue choices.

Oh and the dialogue choices are great because you can pimp all the girls including your little sister.

Speaking of your character though...wow....holy shit wow....for all the stuff Vaan gets about being girly...and all the shit the Suikoden IV guy got for looking lame......wow, this takes the cake. I like the character designs but the facial expressions the main guy makes are amazingly bad. He's the worst lead character I've ever seen in a game. He'd be better if he was just like a floating puffy ball or something so you wouldn't have to see his facial expressions. I try to just look at the dialogue boxes and avoid actually seeing the game. I don't know why the Suikoden teams continue to give lame looking silent people, but yeah maybe it's all a joke on the players.

So yeah, story = good (reminds me of Suikoden II's story plot-wise [not character-wise]), battles = good, music = good, graphics = good. It's the best 3d Suikoden so far, but more of a mish-mash of III and IV, rather than some new game that's much better than both of those ones.

Still too early to judge though. I mean I haven't even fought a strategy battle yet or recruited anyone (though I have an idea where my base is going to be [no I didn't read your spoiler Himuro]). Hopefully that'll start soon and then I'll see how it really lives up as a Suikoden title.

In the end I think if you had the patience to finish IV, you'll have the patience to finish V. I'll definitely be sticking around for the entire experience whether it gets better worse at this point.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Good god the town screens look fucking horribly generic. I could deal with load times and slow pacing, but that's just bad. Most of what you say sounds good, what scares me is where you talk about it not feeling like a Suikoden game. I'm right up there with you with having a blast going around and finding people I could recruit/recruit later (I've actually got my girlfriend going through S1 now). Large generic looking towns with few recruitables = Not Suikoden at all =/. Sounds like you're still pretty early in, hopefully that changes for the better, let us know how it goes!
 

MrDaravon

Member
Himuro said:
I'm pretty sure more stars will appear later. In SIII you couldn't recruit characters with Geddoe, Chris, or Hugo at the beginning so I don't see the big deal. And I don't see how the lack of stars in towns is a bad thing. That means the stars are more spread out and not just limited to towns. And even then, the stars can come to those towns later in the game. I mean, look at your home town in SII. You can only recruit Mukumuku by examining the tree. There's noone else there to recruit and before that point, characters contiously pop in and out (Eile, Bolgan, the whore, Viktor, Flik..).

The videos Bebpo put on youtube are pretty good to me. I see enough npc's to satisfy me, and enough exploration as well, especially with Raftfleet.

Yeah, I'm hoping it just picks up more later. Just one of the things I love about Suikoden is the towns, there's always a lot of stuff going on, and from what I've seen they look kinda empty/bland. Like you said though, it's still (relatively) early on, so way too early to make a judgement either way. Regardless I'm still picking this up day 1 anyway, even if it sucks :)
 

Bebpo

Banned
I'm more worried that the majority of stars will join in groups due to story stuff. Aka, less going around from town to town taking care of requirements.

I do miss seeing the stars being interesting looking people on the map. Even when you do find stars, with the overhead perspective sometimes they don't even look that different from an NPC. The sprites in Suikoden I/II would always be awesome for the stars and in III/IV the models would always be colorful and unique. They used to always stick out in your face, and I'm not noticing that so much yet. I'm actually talking to every boring looking NPC just because one of them might be a star.
 

Brian Fellows

Pete Carroll Owns Me
One thing that's gonna turn off a lot of people and something that I both like/dislike is the fact that the intro is 8 hours long. By intro I mean the fetch quests, story-section in all Suikoden games before you can really do anything. In the first 8 hours you can't make your team since you never have more than 5 people; you can't collect anyone; you can't really fight except for two small dungeons that last maybe 15 mins each; you can't really explore anywhere; and the plot doesn't really start. That means for the first 8 hours it basically doesn't feel that much like Suikoden. Instead the entire first 8 hours is just walking around huge areas where you have to talk to EVERY NPC because either one of them triggers the next event, or the next event is triggered by going everywhere and talking to everyone. This is because the first 8 hours is a political story and you're mainly just gonna be reading it.

Well as long as the rest of the game is proportionately as long I wont mind. :D
 
EIGHT HOURS for the horribly boring introduction? Dear god! I got through five hours of it, falling asleep twice from boredom before giving up. But to think that it lasts for another three hours!

I'm meeting someone who works in localization at Konami Japan tomorrow for all-you-can eat and drink Brazillian meat and beer. I'm going to wait for him to get filled up, then punch him in the gut. I don't think he has anything to do with Suikoden, but still... someone has to pay!
 
I don't care about slow starts.. for me, Suikoden III was boring until I had 20 hours on the clock, then it picked up.

It is still one of my favorite ps2 rpgs.
 
Very good question.. maybe they are a "technical limitation".. the game looks unusually high poly for a Suikoden game. In small closed-in spaces like that room where the Prince is standing next to the window, maybe they felt that they could afford to have full shadows..

assuming these are all from the same version of the game.. in all honesty, I'm surprised that they didn't just do one version of suikoden 5 and do a simultaneous JP/US release since they are only a month apart anyway.

I guess they didn't want to go 2 dvd or dvd-9 ::shrug:: Anyway, looking forward to more impressions and translations :)
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Himuro said:
You can zoom in..

Hooray!
How the blody hell am I gonna fit this in with all the other stuff coming out soon...
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Himuro said:
Simple. You put it first.
But Ryu ga Gotoku! And for some reason I'm playing Star Ocean 3. And FFXII kicks Suiko V in the face. :( But I still wanna play Suiko V.
 

Bebpo

Banned
50 hours of this!?!....yeah...this is gonna be a close call as to whether I actually finish it or not. I mean IV was easy to put up with since it was only 20 hours, but 50+ hours of this........... :(

Suikoden is one of the series that sets a good example on the "long != good" rpg front. Look at Suikoden II! It was barely 20 horus, Suikoden I was ~ 10 hours total. Considering how shallow the games are (especially their battle systems and easy difficulty level) 50 hours of that is not not not a good thing :(
 

Bebpo

Banned
Himuro said:
50 hours of awesome.

I'll put it this way. I give Suikoden IV a 6/7 out of 10 and that was when it ended after 20-23 hours. If I had to play until the 50 hour mark to see the ending I would have given it a 2/10.

Look at Legendia. 30 hours in it was a B+, 60 hours in it was an F-.

Suikoden V is juuuuuuuuust barely ok. 50 hours is not awesomeness.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Himuro said:
Meh. I don't know about you but I love that shit. I spent 50 hours on SII alone. 80 hours on SIII...30 hours on SI. I don't see how length can drive a game down if it's a really good game. You don't see people complaining about FF games and 40-50 hours is the normal length of an FF without doing sidequests.

Apart of the reason SIV wasn't that good to me was because it's story was hardly developed. In SV, you're getting much more time to develop the characters, the plot, and overall awesome. To me everything I've seen from SV has fixed every problem I've had with SIV aside from the load times (which I'm sure I'll get used to). I am very excited about this.

...but it's not.

So if SIV had an awesome story you would've thought it was a good game? IMO the reason Suikoden IV was very average was because it was not fun gameplay-wise. Sailing was not fun, the lack of dungeons was not fun, loading was not fun. Gameplay and fun >>>>>>>>> story.
 

MrDaravon

Member
Bebpo said:
...but it's not.

So if SIV had an awesome story you would've thought it was a good game? IMO the reason Suikoden IV was very average was because it was not fun gameplay-wise. Sailing was not fun, the lack of dungeons was not fun, loading was not fun. Gameplay and fun >>>>>>>>> story.

I agree 110% there on Suikoden 4.
 
while i can't comment on anything else, the music in the beginning of the game is SO DAMN GOOD! If theres anything we can count on from a suiko, it's that the soundtrack will never disappoint. glad to say five is still keeping strong.
 
NOOOOOOOO! OMGWTFBBQ! Play-Asia just told me that my limited edition is on back-order! I ORDERED IT TWO MONTHS AGO YOU FUCKS!

There's probably no way I'm getting it now. They'll keep stalling and stalling to keep my cash. And half of the fun with getting the JP version early will be lost since the US version will be out shortly then (March 13 at the moment).
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Sounds like everybody who is bitching about Stories in RPGs need to buy this game when it comes out, day one.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Suikoguy said:
Sounds like everybody who is bitching about Stories in RPGs need to buy this game when it comes out, day one.

Errrr...no? It's still a generic game story that's totally predictable and laughable when compared to writing in other mediums. It's a pretty good story compared to say games in the Tales series or Suikoden IV, but anyone who is bitching about stories in rpgs would only have more fuel for their hate after playing Suikoden V.
 
dude, suiko 5 is good, but it's not the greatest story ever penned. Fans like us will have plenty to enjoy, and it definately makes up for the ass that was 4, but it's not going to change any minds of outsiders.
 
Suikoguy said:
Sounds like everybody who is bitching about Stories in RPGs need to buy this game when it comes out, day one.

People who are bitching about stories in RPGs should just stop buying them altogether. Each one you buy is just encouraging the studio to produce more crap. Why do you think we're up to Final Fantasy 12? People keep buying the shit, of course.

Yes, I really do think that Square isn't any better than the rest of these hacks. At least, not any more.
 

Tabris

Member
I want to know the following:

Does the HQ upgrade with more people or is it lame like S4 where they just fill in the rooms?

What mini games does the game have?

Can you equip/sharpen all your characters or only your current party?

Is the experience system more like S1/S2 or S3/S4 (as in capped)? I liked that you could level up your low level characters to a couple levels before current in a couple battles. In both the above Suikodens, it was capped @ 5/10 per battle
 
Himuro said:


This thread was getting kind of dull, so I added a little spice :lol

That said, I am looking forward to Suikoden V. As long as it turns out to be at least as enjoyable as Suikoden III
 

Tabris

Member
Not going to bother ruining a good Suikoden thread because someone wants to bring up Final Fantasy/Square flaming here. Ignoring that post now.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Himuro should love this, Suikoden V is game made for fans of the series as impressions seem to suggest....

that's great for me :D
 
Sorry for the derailing the thread, Himuro. I'll take my opinions to a different thread. I had started out intending to defend Suikoden by saying that FF isn't really any less guilty of mediocrity, but I got side-tracked into a different rant altogether...

Getting back on topic...

Do you guys think that Suikoden V will really hit the US in March? I still can't believe a release only a little more than a month after the JP release.
 
damn you kingdom hearts! my girlfriend has totally taken over my system, having fallen under the lure of those disney fiends. i'm still in the long intro chunk. it's taking me longer than most, cause my japanese is far from fluent.
 

Tabris

Member
So not the thread this to do this in, so this will be my only response...

I think Square, in general (exceptions of course), are the only one's attempting something different...and they get hated on for it.

Final Fantasy X. The main character had actual depth to his character. He wasn't the traditional save the world type character, but one conflicted with issues regarding his father. What was most everyone's response to that? They were against it. They wanted a 2 dimensional save the world type hero.

People say they want depth in their RPG stories, but when they attempt it (FFVII with the underlining philosophical elements, FFVIII with the first full love story in an RPG and FFX with the character with legimate human condition issues) with stories which are focused more on the character dramas then the "save the world plot", they just hate on them for it.

The only compromise where depth can be met without hate by these players is when it's political intrigue or character drama with each other and not inward (Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story for example)

So you should understand why developers are afraid to experiment with this.

They're not to blame, the fans are to blame.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Himuro is just incapable of having fun in threads. Makes me sad. :(
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Tabris said:
So not the thread this to do this in, so this will be my only response...

I think Square, in general (exceptions of course), are the only one's attempting something different...and they get hated on for it.

Final Fantasy X. The main character had actual depth to his character. He wasn't the traditional save the world type character, but one conflicted with issues regarding his father. What was most everyone's response to that? They were against it. They wanted a 2 dimensional save the world type hero.

People say they want depth in their RPG stories, but when they attempt it (FFVII with the underlining philosophical elements, FFVIII with the first full love story in an RPG and FFX with the character with legimate human condition issues) with stories which are focused more on the character dramas then the "save the world plot", they just hate on them for it.

The only compromise where depth can be met without hate by these players is when it's political intrigue or character drama with each other and not inward (Final Fantasy Tactics and Vagrant Story for example)

So you should understand why developers are afraid to experiment with this.

They're not to blame, the fans are to blame.
FFX has it's share of flaws but characters (one of the best cast ever IMO) and story are definitely not the game's flaws. the ending rocked one of the best ever again IMO.
 
Tabris said:
Sorry Himuro, he just made his post and I had to reply :) My last post on that subject.

Anyway... getting back on track...

Is there any reason to doubt the target release date for March? Considering how much voice and text I've seen in the media of Suikoden V, they must have been working on the translation for quite a long time for it to be ready so fast o.o
 
the only reason that the date might change is that konami realises what a foolish idea it is to go head to head with kingdom hearts.
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Himuro said:
No, I am incapable of wanting my threads to turn into bs like this

I do agree with you on the case above and your opinion on Robobandit's view, but seriously man, you do need to calm down a bit.
 
Himuro said:
:lol You guys take me too seriously. Bebpo the other day was like,"Himuro hates on me everyday because I'm apprehensive about Suikoden V.." What? :lol I'm joking!

Suuuuuure you are.. Suikoden fans can be very erm.. passionate.. and dangerous :lol

Only kidding =)

I just hope that Konami didn't skimp on the english voice talent, not much longer to find out I guess :)
 

Dead

well not really...yet
Bebpo said:
50 hours of this!?!....yeah...this is gonna be a close call as to whether I actually finish it or not. I mean IV was easy to put up with since it was only 20 hours, but 50+ hours of this........... :(

Suikoden is one of the series that sets a good example on the "long != good" rpg front. Look at Suikoden II! It was barely 20 horus, Suikoden I was ~ 10 hours total. Considering how shallow the games are (especially their battle systems and easy difficulty level) 50 hours of that is not not not a good thing :(
Suikoden II was like 50 hours :/
 

RevenantKioku

PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS PEINS oh god i am drowning in them
Himuro said:
:lol You guys take me too seriously. Bebpo the other day was like,"Himuro hates on me everyday because I'm apprehensive about Suikoden V.." What? :lol I'm joking!

Haha, okay the we each have taken each other way too seriously in the past few days. :lol
 

Bebpo

Banned
Himuro said:
It took me 50 hours because I was addicted to that game, and did everything (aside from Clive's quest). I had a blast with the cook off sidequest learning Hai Yo's past, using the detective on every character, playing whack a mole CONSTANTLY, just sitting there fishing and selling junk, and getting every character without a guide. In fact I got 55 hours out of that game. People tell me they beat it in 20 and I'm like,"Whut.." In fact, Suikoden II is the only game I've played where I ever bothered to get every character max. On my second playthrough I had a total of 65 hours because I sharpened every weapon and so forth. Fun times.

Yeah, I don't max characters to lvl.99 in any game just for the fun of it. In Suikoden games I get all 108 stars and I beat the game, that's about it. Suikoden II took me about 20 hours to do that.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Himuro said:
...Wait wait. There's a day cycle in this??

Not one that automatically happens. I actually don't know what he's talking about, but there are night sections where after a cutscene a character will go outside at night and you can walk around. But normally staying at inns just go day -> day and there is no automatic "it goes to night if you stand around" cycle as far as I could tell.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Himuro said:
Drat. I was hoping there was a cycle so you can only recruit certain people depending on the day time.

Btw, since you've been following all the people playing the game are there any stars you can miss? I know IV had one
ted
. At 50 hours for V I wanna make sure I get all 108 people when I do put the time in.
 

Bebpo

Banned
I don't want a guide since I want to find them all myself. I just want to know if there are 1 or 2 that are time-sensitive and if you miss them you are completely screwed.
 
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