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[Innotech]

It's not worthwhile to spend a big budget on a big production for a Wii game, when people aren't buying the Wii for those games, and when you can achieve equal or greater success with game productions with average production values and average budget.

It defies common sense. It's all about market segmentation, it's not about if the Wii will have traditional games, which it will obviously, and it already has, it's about how far will you go with those traditional games really.

A game like MGS4 has no place on the Wii. I think that's the point, and it's true. But i don't see that as a bad thing, it just means it's different, and that's good for the HD and the Wii. If the consoles all did the same i doubt the Wii would be selling like it is now, remember last gen, Wii sells cus it's different, that's the whole point.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281196 hmm it appears it doesnt have a place on the Ps3 either

 

[Eteric Rice]

Crazy thing is I saw some Wiis in Wal-Mart this month.

When Wii-Fit comes out, shit will hit the fan. :O

 

[jordan0386]

One thing that is against wii getting high profile games is that development cost doesn't matter much for titles that sell (or are expected to sell) big. For example let's look at a hypothetical situation where RE5 was wii exclusive.


No difference in profit even though they sold the same amount and the PS360 game cost 3times more, and the more a game sells the better it is for it to be PS360 instead of wii.

Maybe some developers just dont want to use the Wii specs to make games and rather the PS3/360 architecture.

Im sure a Wii version of RE5 would be great. But I would really prefer them to knock it out on a Xbox or Playstation.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Holy shit, If even the much hailed GTAIV fails to give it an hardware bump, and with the super poor worldwide sales plaguing the system, X360 might be in BIG BIG TROUBLE.

Anyway, HD systems' sales have been truly disappointing so far and I don't see the end of it, the next couple of months are going to be crucial for both PS3 and X360, it'll probably define the entire generation until Wii2.

 

[jett]

Oh man I just realized DMC4 dropped like a fucking rock on both consoles. Bombas aweigh?

 

[bill0527]

Anyway, HD systems' sales have been truly disappointing so far and I don't see the end of it, the next couple of months are going to be crucial for both PS3 and X360, it'll probably define the entire generation until Wii2.

None of the HD systems are at mass market pricing yet. I'm still holding out hope that either the PS3 or a non-gimped 360 version hits $250 or less, that either one will be able to make up some ground on the Wii. Probably not overtake it at this point, but at least gain a little ground.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Holy shit, If even the much hailed GTAIV fails to give it an hardware bump, and with the super poor worldwide sales plaguing the system, X360 might be in BIG BIG TROUBLE.

Anyway, HD systems' sales have been truly disappointing so far and I don't see the end of it, the next couple of months are going to be crucial for both PS3 and X360, it'll probably define the entire generation until Wii2.

That's going a little too far. I would think that if the Wii and DS didn't exist 360/PS3/PSP sales (given their price points and the time of year) would be seen as extraordinary.

None of the HD systems are at mass market pricing yet. I'm still holding out hope that either the PS3 or a non-gimped 360 version hits $250 or less, that either one will be able to make up some ground on the Wii. Probably not overtake it at this point, but at least gain a little ground.

At the same time, I'm not sure that even at a lower price the 360 and PS3 can be mass market at this point. They've both painted themselves into the corner of being "hardcore niche". They'll do respectable sales and move software but the mass market has chosen the Wii and what it offers and there doesn't seem to be room to go back this late in the gen.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Holy shit, If even the much hailed GTAIV fails to give it an hardware bump, and with the super poor worldwide sales plaguing the system, X360 might be in BIG BIG TROUBLE.

Um, in its third March in the prior gen, Xbox was $179 and sold worse than 360 just did at $279/$349/$449.

 

[Jokeropia]

The truth can hurt sometimes...

The truth is that Wii has the best software sales of any system in history at this point (17 months after release) and yes, clearly this has hurt you to the point that you can neither reason nor read.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Um, in its third March in the prior gen, Xbox was $179 and sold worse than 360 just did at $279/$349/$449.

Very true.

The only console that's embarrassing it's predecessor is the PS3.

The Wii is easily outpacing the GCN, and doing the same to last gens top spotter the PS2. The 360 is moving marginally better, at much higher prices then the Xbox, and then there's the PS3. It's performing like the GCN. Maybe a little better in some ways, and definitely at a higher price, but it is what it is.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Oh man I just realized DMC4 dropped like a fucking rock on both consoles. Bombas aweigh?

I dunno, it came out of the gates hard enough that it's difficult to call it a bomb, but I'm sure all involved were hoping it would hang in there a bit longer than it has.

Ah well.

 

[Starchasing]

Maybe some developers just dont want to use the Wii specs to make games and rather the PS3/360 architecture.

Developers dont call the shots.

Also, this bullshit about developers prefering the more powerful hardware to realise their dreams is just some stupid romantic idea.

Just to make my point look at the ps2 generation

 

[Innotech]

There's no betting here, there's just a statement of what I believe is going to be the future for the console market.

People doubted my PSP predictions and they still doubt my PS3 predictions. They are dead set in the belief that the market cannot change even though the company they are cheering for proved that the market can change in a very drastic way within a small period.

newsflash, the PSP has outsold the DS before. And not just this year, but the first year it was launched. Except now it is absolutely obliterated by worldwide DS sales. Its only making headway in Japan, and only by a couple hundred thousand units this year so far. DS just erased that with one single month in NPD. In Europe its best not to even mention the thing.
As for the Wii, Ps3 has to not only outsell it, but also make up for a 13 million unit deficit. This assuming the Wii is in a sales vacuum, which it isnt.
THe Wii did in fact turn to the industry on its head in very short order, but this is due to a very deliberateplan of action by nintendo. they knew where they wanted to go and the market and the price worked in their favor. Sony right now is quite literally pissing in a hurricane.

 

[CrushDance]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281196 hmm it appears it doesnt have a place on the Ps3 either

Wow. Way to go and spin such a comment.

Oh man I just realized DMC4 dropped like a fucking rock on both consoles. Bombas aweigh?

No it didn't. DMC4 PS3 outperformed the PS2 version of DMC3 in less time in Japan. And it's ahead of the 360 version by about 300k or so I believe.

It didn't bomb. 1.2mil?

 

[Dragon]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281196 hmm it appears it doesnt have a place on the Ps3 either

Using your "Jump To Conclusions" mat again?

 

[Dragon]

newsflash, the PSP has outsold the DS before. And not just this year, but the first year it was launched. Except now it is absolutely obliterated by worldwide DS sales. Its only making headway in Japan, and only by a couple hundred thousand units this year so far. DS just erased that with one single month in NPD. In Europe its best not to even mention the thing.
As for the Wii, Ps3 has to not only outsell it, but also make up for a 13 million unit deficit. This assuming the Wii is in a sales vacuum, which it isnt.
THe Wii did in fact turn to the industry on its head in very short order, but this is due to a very deliberateplan of action by nintendo. they knew where they wanted to go and the market and the price worked in their favor. Sony right now is quite literally pissing in a hurricane.

I realize this is a sales thread and all, but I find it interesting that on GAF and other places I've been on the internets that highest sales means the best product, or it surely seems that a lot of people imply it.

 

[Jokeropia]

I realize this is a sales thread and all, but I find it interesting that on GAF and other places I've been on the internets that highest sales means the best product, or it surely seems that a lot of people imply it.

Sure doesn't seem like it, as his post was on-topic and yours not even related to what he said.

Highest sales simply means that the majority considers it the best product, but their opinion isn't any less subjective than anyone elses.

 

[Innotech]

Wow. Way to go and spin such a comment.

No it didn't. DMC4 PS3 outperformed the PS2 version of DMC3 in less time in Japan. And it's ahead of the 360 version by about 300k or so I believe.

It didn't bomb. 1.2mil?

thanks. I tried.

 

[Dragon]

Sure doesn't seem like it, as his post was on-topic and yours not even related to what he said.

Thanks mod.

Highest sales simply means that the majority considers it the best product, but their opinion isn't any less subjective than anyone elses.

Hence my point, and yet people like you and Innotech post with this bizarre "in your face HD consoles" attitude as if you're a better person for supporting the Wii. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting that, but I've never liked your posts anyway so I'm sure that's it

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I realize this is a sales thread and all, but I find it interesting that on GAF and other places I've been on the internets that highest sales means the best product, or it surely seems that a lot of people imply it.

Nothing in his post implied anything of the sort. Certainly you do get the occasional fanboy implying such things, but that isn't the case here. A lot (not all) of the regular sales agers do try to keep their allegiances out of the discussion though.

Oh, and "best product" has a very fluid definition. In terms of marketing speak, it's the product that fit's the customer's needs the best. If the customer's needs are entertainment and fun then a customer may choose one console over another based on preferences. If the customer's needs are slick graphics and uncompressed audio, they may choose another.

One should not project one's own preferences onto other people when trying to define the "best product". Just because your own preferences do not gel with those of others does not mean that you are the arbiter of what can be considered "quality".

 

[Innotech]

I realize this is a sales thread and all, but I find it interesting that on GAF and other places I've been on the internets that highest sales means the best product, or it surely seems that a lot of people imply it.

dont worry, I took the same stance with the gamecube and N64.
I agree its not always the case, and actually I cant remember the last time it was.

 

[Dragon]

Nothing in his post implied anything of the sort. Certainly you do get the occasional fanboy implying such things, but that isn't the case here. A lot (not all) of the regular sales agers do try to keep their allegiances out of the discussion though.

It's really a combination of posts, not really any one in particular. But you're right, his post wasn't implying anything more than what it was.

Oh, and "best product" has a very fluid definition. In terms of marketing speak, it's the product that fit's the customer's needs the best. If the customer's needs are entertainment and fun then a customer may choose one console over another based on preferences. If the customer's needs are slick graphics and uncompressed audio, they may choose another.

Those last two sentences are ridiculous. I realize it's a personal preference and am not saying by any means that they're wrong for having it.

One should not project one's own preferences onto other people when trying to define the "best product". Just because your own preferences do not gel with those of others does not mean that you are the arbiter of what can be considered "quality".

It's not so much my preferences not gelling, it's the general attitude.

I think it's just I don't like Innotech (although it is a really cool name). Which isn't an excuse for my post either. Anyway sorry for deflecting the thread.

Go Wii and DS.

 

[Innotech]

It's really a combination of posts, not really any one in particular. But you're right, his post wasn't implying anything more than what it was.



Those last two sentences are ridiculous. I realize it's a personal preference and am not saying by any means that they're wrong for having it.



It's not so much my preferences not gelling, it's the general attitude.

I think it's just I don't like Innotech (although it is a really cool name). Which isn't an excuse for my post either. Anyway sorry for deflecting the thread.

Go Wii and DS.

Innotech is a word play on two things. 1. a czech supercar and 2. the company Initech from Office Space.

And its ok, I dont like you either

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Those last two sentences are ridiculous. I realize it's a personal preference and am not saying by any means that they're wrong for having it.

Then you shouldn't have said "best product". The way your post was written seemed to imply that the current "winners" were not the "best products" on the market. In reality, to say such a thing makes no sense.

I think it's just I don't like Innotech (although it is a really cool name). Which isn't an excuse for my post either. Anyway sorry for deflecting the thread.

Go Wii and DS.

My advice: keep personal feelings out of sales-age. This is where trolling and defensive posting comes from and it doesn't look good on anyone. Although it is hilarious under the right circumstances.

 

[Jokeropia]

Thanks mod.

I made two statements in that post, neither of which has anything to do with moderating. Do I have to explain why or would you like another shot at basic reading comprehension?

Hence my point, and yet people like you and Innotech post with this bizarre "in your face HD consoles" attitude as if you're a better person for supporting the Wii. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting that, but I've never liked your posts anyway so I'm sure that's it

Where have I made such a post? I'm just amused by the discomfort these figures create in some people. I'm laughing at whining fanboys, not HD consoles.

 

[Innotech]

im not taking much of anything seriously on this forum. I do defend the wii becausE I feel that it gets a bad rap, same as any nintendo system, but overall I just want to have fun and possibly poke a bit of fun at people on occasion. No harm in it.
By the way, this is the Innotech car.

 

[AndyIsTheMoran]

Take your happy attitude elsewhere. This is a fucking war.

You do realize gaming is going to grow out of the 1 manufacturer market dont you? As more people and more money goes into the industry there will continue to be more devs and hardware manufacturers. Just like back in the day there was only Ford and GM...now look.

 

[MisterHero]

oh yay more freaking car analogies

 

[Innotech]

oh yay more freaking car analogies

is that in reference to my post or the one below mine?

 

[Haunted]

By the way, this is the Innotech car.

Ferrari under the hood?

 

[valkillmore]

You do realize gaming is going to grow out of the 1 manufacturer market dont you? As more people and more money goes into the industry there will continue to be more devs and hardware manufacturers. Just like back in the day there was only Ford and GM...now look.

The problem with your analogy is that the market has never been able to maintain greater than three platforms.

More devs is great. That's great news. More hardware manufacturers is a bad thing. Number one, look at Microsoft. They've been in the game since 2002, thrown billions of dollars at their brand and only now are turning profits. Not many companies have that kind of cash on hand to bankroll establishing a brand. Unless one of the current three throw in the towel (Can't see that happening) you won't see a legitimately competitive fourth console manufacturer appear.

 

[Vinci]

Number one, look at Microsoft. They've been in the game since 2002, thrown billions of dollars at their brand and only now are turning profits. Not many companies have that kind of cash on hand to bankroll establishing a brand.

It's arguable whether they've always made good decisions though. There would've been nothing stopping them from coming into the industry with something clearly novel, such as the Wii, and turned it on its head and made life a bit easier for themselves.

For example: I believe if Apple ever did get into the industry, they could do so with less difficulty and also with a higher chance of appealing to the Asian market. Not saying that'd be wise of them -- jumping into such a crowded hardware market and all -- but it's not completely outside the realm of possibility.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Um, in its third March in the prior gen, Xbox was $179 and sold worse than 360 just did at $279/$349/$449.

So? Expectations anyone?
Do you even know how much money did the Xbox brand cost to Microsoft at this point?
You think they're going to flush money down the toilet till the end of times?

Do you really see a bright future for Xbox when it fails to sell better than PS3 even in his strongest European territory after a massive pricecut and despite selling double the units sold the month prior?

Japan = Not even accountable as a competitor.
Europe (minus UK) = Failure.
UK: Good installed base in UK but 2008 sales are dwarfed by his competitors showings, massive pricecut fails to make a deep impact.
US: Good installed base, now selling on par with PS3.

Can't you see the difference between what the future holds for X360 (possibly even a distant third place in the consoles' race?) and Xbox's debut as the first vgs' console by Microsoft achieving a good second place even beating Nintendo in the US "everloving Mario & Co" of A and Europe?

 

[SovanJedi]

By the way, this is the Innotech car.

Is it me or does that look like a really unhappy brown ghost driving it?

 

[Innotech]

Is it me or does that look like a really unhappy brown ghost driving it?

a lot of seats are designed like that to accomodate a racing harness. the porsche Gt2 I rode in once had similar seats and so do some Ferraris.
But yes, it actually does :lol

 

[Innotech]

The problem with your analogy is that the market has never been able to maintain greater than three platforms.

More devs is great. That's great news. More hardware manufacturers is a bad thing. Number one, look at Microsoft. They've been in the game since 2002, thrown billions of dollars at their brand and only now are turning profits. Not many companies have that kind of cash on hand to bankroll establishing a brand. Unless one of the current three throw in the towel (Can't see that happening) you won't see a legitimately competitive fourth console manufacturer appear.

I dunno. this gen has been maintaining six. Eight if you include some tail end Gamecube and GBA sales.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Is it me or does that look like a really unhappy brown ghost driving it?

holy shit you're right! :lol :lol :lol

 

[Narcosis]

Is it me or does that look like a really unhappy brown ghost driving it?

Wouldn't you be sad too if your arms were too small to reach the steering wheel?

 

[Innotech]

Wouldn't you be sad too if your arms were too small to reach the steering wheel?

now I cant unsee it :lol

 

[Beer Monkey]

So? Expectations anyone?
Do you even know how much money did the Xbox brand cost to Microsoft at this point?
You think they're going to flush money down the toilet till the end of times?

Do you really see a bright future for Xbox when it fails to sell better than PS3 even in his strongest European territory after a massive pricecut and despite selling double the units sold the month prior?

Japan = Not even accountable as a competitor.
Europe (minus UK) = Failure.
UK: Good installed base in UK but 2008 sales are dwarfed by his competitors showings, massive pricecut fails to make a deep impact.
US: Good installed base, now selling on par with PS3.

Can't you see the difference between what the future holds for X360 (possibly even a distant third place in the consoles' race?) and Xbox's debut as the first vgs' console by Microsoft achieving a good second place even beating Nintendo in the US "everloving Mario & Co" of A and Europe?

They are selling better this gen at a much higher price, have had back-to-back profitable quarters, and are kicking ass in the software market. This gen is far more successful than last gen, and guarantees a third generation of Xbox consoles. As long as they keep showing progress, the board and shareholders will keep backing up their efforts in this market.

 

[DCharlie]

Japan = Not even accountable as a competitor.
Europe (minus UK) = Failure.
UK: Good installed base in UK but 2008 sales are dwarfed by his competitors showings, massive pricecut fails to make a deep impact.
US: Good installed base, now selling on par with PS3.

but hold on ...

Japan = PS3 effectively dead. 8400 sales a week. barely at 2 million.
Europe (minus UK) = Yet is still ahead europe wide right?
UK: Yet still ahead overall and apparently now tracking at similar level as PS3 meaning the gap will not close (for now)
US: 4 million or so ahead, lead pretty much guaranteed. PS3 tracking about level, gap unlikely to close.

I dunno - Sony fans seem to have taken the couple of months PS3 edged ahead of X360 and converted this into guaranteed victory.

After everything you've seen over the last nigh on two months, i'm flabbergasted as to where the confidence comes from personally.

Any talk of MS being ahead at this point by the margin they are, and talk of sony being in third place back in 2006 would have been laughed at.

Yet here we are, and that's whats happened, yet the prediction is still : DOOM for MS despite having actual sales on the board and great software sales, VICTORY for PS3 on the belief that 1) the X360 is just going to drop dead and stop selling 2) the PS3 is suddenly going to reverse it's 'dog product' status in Japan, and to a lesser extent in the US.

baffleton.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

So basically Wii sold more than GameCube did in December 2001, 2002, or 2005.

 

[Innotech]

So basically Wii sold more than GameCube did in December 2001, 2002, or 2005.

essentially.

 

[avatar299]

They are selling better this gen at a much higher price, have had back-to-back profitable quarters, and are kicking ass in the software market. This gen is far more successful than last gen, and guarantees a third generation of Xbox consoles. As long as they keep showing progress, the board and shareholders will keep backing up their efforts in this market.

I don't see the xbox leaving, but I do believe the next iteration will be drastically different. MS is hardcore becuase they thought hardcore would be an easy transition to mainstream. I think the wii has changed that style of thinking in MS, and I wouldn't be suprised if the xbox720 or whatever is heavily based on the success of the wii

 

[JavyOO7]

Nintendo I believe will keep this momentum going when Mario Kart releases this month in the states and then Wii Fit coing in the wings.

And just because Nintendo has not released their 2nd half schedule does not mean they got nothing in the wings for the 2nd half of this year. I imagine they hell one hell of a line up to please the casual fan base as well as the regular Nintendo fan base.

Absolutely it'd be nice to have more 3rd party support for the Wii catering towards hardcore needs. But I believe while there will be catering for the hardcore developers will look at their efforts being built towards the casual gamer... and that's not really such a bad thing. There can be some fantastic ideas being brought to the table when in that concept and in the end the developer and publisher will make money.

I think 2009 will be the Wii's true coming out party when it comes to developer support from all angles. I believe it could truly destroy some records in the following months and especially next year. I am HOPING to see more games take the remote and nunchuck to places we haven't even pondered yet and I believe it will be done as developers re wire their thinking on how to implement motion based games appropriately and intuitively.

 

[Bulla564]

Yet here we are, and that's whats happened, yet the prediction is still : DOOM for MS despite having actual sales on the board and great software sales, VICTORY for PS3 on the belief that 1) the X360 is just going to drop dead and stop selling 2) the PS3 is suddenly going to reverse it's 'dog product' status in Japan, and to a lesser extent in the US.

Do people really have to enumerate the reasons surrounding the positive outlook for PS3? Moreover, do people have to regurgitate the reasons for the 360 backlash?

 

[bigmakstudios]

Do people really have to enumerate the reasons surrounding the positive outlook for PS3? Moreover, do people have to regurgitate the reasons for the 360 backlash?

Yeah. There's no evidence proving or even suggesting that Falcon 360s have an abnormal failure rate as far as I know, and 360's library is far superior to PS3's right now.

 

[Jasoncheng]

Can someone give me the data for last time PSP-game in NPD TOP 10?

 

[DCharlie]

Do people really have to enumerate the reasons surrounding the positive outlook for PS3? Moreover, do people have to regurgitate the reasons for the 360 backlash?

I know the arguments only too well - what i'm saying is that they are basically irrelevant and i think NPD numbers (showing that the PS3 has not swept away, and that the X360 has not suddenly stopped selling) back this up.


Sony's bonus here is they've managed to prevent further damage being done in that now they are trending within xx K sales in the US either way so that means they aren't going to get left in the dusts.

The Doom scenario for X360 isn't going to happen - and it's a sign of how desperate some fanboys are that they are relying on the X360 momentum to stop dead , companies to stop making games, games to suddenly not get any better, etc.

Also - i'd say 98% of the 360 backlash is coming out sonyfanboys mouths along with pretty much all of the pro-sony posturiing. As i said, the anecdotal "people trading in X360s for PS3 because of RROD" AND the "Bluray victoly1!"scenarios affected the overall state of play by... let's see.... 50k+60k-10k. So three months in, +100k for Sony in the US. Doom indeed.

Next stop on the bullshit choo choo : All the PS3 fans are waiting for GTA before buying a machine, it won't sell any X360s.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

i'm flabbergasted as to where the confidence comes from personally.

There is a LOT of pent up frustration from the Sony flag wavers lofty predictions post E305 - pre E306. Now it's gotta release any chance it can. They kept it bottled up for way too long.