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[Teknopathetic]

"I know one of the important one was WinFS, right? The database like file system?"

Yes. Another one was Palladium but it's a *GREAT* thing that was scrapped. The PC-to-PC sync thing was also delayed.


"I can see it now. This is what your heart truly desired to post!"

Your abilities have failed you as that's not what I linked. Screenshot or it didn't happen.

 

[Lhadatt]

Something is very... wrong with this post. It lacks clarity and sureness. Using my amazing abilities, I will peer into your mind and remove the veil covering your deceit.

It's becoming... clearer. So, so much clearer.

Yes!

I can see it now. This is what your heart truly desired to post!

Wrong. Your link is to a list of features from previous Windows versions not present in Vista.

Here's a history of Vista development that shows just how screwed up everything got, and exactly what MS had to scrap to get to RTM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_Vista

 

[spwolf]

I've edited that post above to show what my point was really going for.

Yeah, we won't be seeing games that really take advantage of DX10 for a while yet, so I don't understand the need to upgrade. Example: Alan Wake looks good on DX9 as-is. It looks great on 10, but why spend the cash on a DX10 card and a new OS? Microsoft will probably have released their supersecret build of DX10 for XP or decided to ditch Vista by the time this becomes an issue.

sure... just be sure that you understand that you are getting passable system, nothing really all that great. And you will have to get new one in 2 years too.

 

[OatmealMu]

Wrong. Your link is to a list of features from previous Windows versions not present in Vista.

Here's a history of Vista development that shows just how screwed up everything got, and exactly what MS had to scrap to get to RTM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_Vista

I caught his post before he edited it. So to you I say:

"Neener, neener."

 

[TaeOH]

Something that won't run games like suck. You can cannibalise the monitor, speakers, etc. or get new ones. I also always think it's worth getting another optical drive.

Plus $6 for some Arctic Silver. Alternatively, take $90 (with $40 mail-in rebate) if you get the HIS X1950Pro instead of the GTS.

Excellent machine...but going with an open box with a MB will cost you more in the long wrong because all the cables can be missing.

I would recommend this motherboard as a replacement...
ABIT IP35-E $119

I suggest losing the 8800 GTS and going for a X1950 Pro. It's last gen, but it still runs some games fairly well. Plus it saves you ~$100.

Worst suggestion ever...the GTS walks all over an X1950. For a gaming rig, the video card is the last thing you want to skimp on and if people really want a "inexpensive" rig that will last a few years with good performance, a GTS is the minimum you want.

People saving money now on a 1900 series card will want to replace it a year from now.

 

[Lhadatt]

sure... just be sure that you understand that you are getting passable system, nothing really all that great. And you will have to get new one in 2 years too.

... That was posted in the OP. This is not the system to end all systems, this is a $500-now/$500-later-when-we-have-a-better-job-and-credit-line box.

TaeOH: Yeah, the 8800GTS looks great, but it's >$300. The $150 part, a 256MB 8600GTS, doesn't beat the X1950. Check Tom's Hardware Video Charts.

The goal of the box is to replace stuff after 2 years anyway, so I'm leaving the X1950 in.

 

[GSG Flash]

It's scary how similar that computer is to mine and I got mine for about $2200 with monitor on June 2006.

 

[Lhadatt]

It's scary how similar that computer is to mine and I got mine for about $2200 with monitor on June 2006.

Yeah, there's no reason to pay over $1 for a computer now. You'll just keep getting screwed as prices drop.

 

[clav]

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=71137&t=553826

/thread

 

[spootime]

http://hardware.gotfrag.com/portal/PriceGuidesBudgetAMD/

try that

 

[TaeOH]

... That was posted in the OP. This is not the system to end all systems, this is a $500-now/$500-later-when-we-have-a-better-job-and-credit-line box.

TaeOH: Yeah, the 8800GTS looks great, but it's >$300. The $150 part, a 256MB 8600GTS, doesn't beat the X1950. Check Tom's Hardware Video Charts.

The goal of the box is to replace stuff after 2 years anyway, so I'm leaving the X1950 in.

MY bad...I thought that was an 8800 he got in there.

 

[BrodiemanTTR]

If you're aiming for reasonably playable 2-3 years down the line, shouldn't a DX10 card be a necessity, even if it's a lower-end card?

 

[SRG01]

I actually had a system written up on my laptop which was around the same specs as yours. The only difference was that I went AMD to take advantage of the AM2 upgrade path. However, that was a few months ago, and I don't think AMD's new chips are going to be that good anymore after recent reports.

From experience, any of the high-end cards of the previous generations should beat the mid-range offerings of the current generation, regardless of the year. The X850XT was beating the pants off of the X1600s a year or so ago.

If you can live without the Dx10 effects, then the X1950 Pro (or higher versions) is a good choice. Not everyone is rendering at ultra-high resolutions. The 7900 might be a good choice too, but I prefer ATI for previous-gen cards.



PS. Why not go for an ASUS motherboard?

 

[spootime]

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=71137&t=553826

/thread

nevermind, this wins lol

 

[ten13]

The 256MB X1950PRO is treating me well in Bioshock @ 1280 x 1024, almost all high settings.

 

[TaeOH]

If you're aiming for reasonably playable 2-3 years down the line, shouldn't a DX10 card be a necessity, even if it's a lower-end card?

Nobody is even sure if the "current" DX10 cards will run DX10 games very well, much less the lower end ones. And every game will come out with a DX9 version for at least a few more years, so IMO getting the fastest DX9 card you can is probably wise. The 8600's really are not all that hot when compared to an X1950.

Personally, I would not build a machine with anything less than an 8800GTS 320 today, but I also spend a lot of money on PC's, which is not the point of this thread.

 

[JaY P.]

Awesome replies, all of you. Except you chumps advising ditching the floppy drive. I'm an IT guy, and I'm not going to ditch my floppy drive until MS stops making operating systems that demand drivers from them during installation. And that 360 guy was awesome too for getting banned. Thanks for trolling dude!

Comments:

- I found benchmarks comparing the HD2600 XT and the 1950 Pro, didn't know there was such a difference. What's ATI's reasoning behind this? Is the 2600 more for home theater systems or something?
- I'm not considering RAM other than Crucial, Corsair, Geil, or the other proven* brands. Patriot's OK, but I'm picky.
- I'll consider the CPU and motherboard advice. I've traditionally been an AMD guy, but I really do like the Intel stuff right now. I'm not big on overclocking, but it's not out of the question.
- I'm going to leave out monitors, keyboard/mice, speakers, etc. - it's a budget PC, these things will be recycled. Should have mentioned that in the first post.

I'm going to probably check out the advice posted here and redo the system in the first post so we can have a current budget PC reference thread.


* "Proven" means more popular brands or stuff I've had success with in the past. I know Patriot's popular, but "budget" doesn't have to mean "el cheapo". You may commence with changing my mind on this.

For RAM you should also consider G. Skill my set has yet to hiccup on me.

As for your CPU, I would advise paying a little more for a Core2 Duo. You'll get better performance and less power consumption, which also translates into less heat dissipated.
You can get an E4300 from newegg for around $121.99 and a decent motherboard is around the same price as your current planned board.

Other than that, you have a solid system. Very comparable to the box I built a year and half ago.

 

[Lhadatt]

I actually had a system written up on my laptop which was around the same specs as yours. The only difference was that I went AMD to take advantage of the AM2 upgrade path. However, that was a few months ago, and I don't think AMD's new chips are going to be that good anymore after recent reports.

blah blah

Who are you replying to?

 

[Lhadatt]

For RAM you should also consider G. Skill my set has yet to hiccup on me.

As for your CPU, I would advise paying a little more for a Core2 Duo. You'll get better performance and less power consumption, which also translates into less heat dissipated.
You can get an E4300 from newegg for around $121.99 and a decent motherboard is around the same price as your current planned board.

Other than that, you have a solid system. Very comparable to the box I built a year and half ago.

Thanks. The CPU is next on the list to be considered, I just don't have the time to really dig into that right now. I'll probably alter the 1st post to include an Intel rig.

TaeOH: That's my thinking. The X1950GT seems to be the best we can do for now. During the DX8->DX9 transition, DX9 was never really a factor until more than a year down the line. With Vista adoption on shaky ground, I'm seeing there's no need to consider DX10 right now.

 

[SRG01]

Who are you replying to?

Don't mind me, I'm just rambling...

>_>

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"Thanks. The CPU is next on the list to be considered, I just don't have the time to really dig into that right now. I'll probably alter the 1st post to include an Intel rig.

TaeOH: That's my thinking. The X1950GT seems to be the best we can do for now. During the DX8->DX9 transition, DX9 was never really a factor until more than a year down the line. With Vista adoption on shaky ground, I'm seeing there's no need to consider DX10 right now."

I thought you were getting a 1950pro? I'm pretty sure pro is better than gt right? I don't see any reason to get a gt over a pro their about the same price maybe $10-$20 difference depending on what brand you buy. I currrently have a x1950pro and play at 1650x1080 and can't say enough good things about it. Also, to agree with the person who said to g.skill ram I have to say that I have g.skill ram in my recently built computers and haven't had a problem. Except getting 4gb to work right on 32bit vista but I think that's something to do with vista and not the ram since I can switch out the ram at 3gb and it's fine no matter which three I use. Just a thought but I think you said you only want certain brands for ram so it's up to you but I've yet to have a problem with them. I think they have it on sale for like $70 or so for g.skill 2gb right now at newegg if I remember right.

 

[Lhadatt]

I thought you were getting a 1950pro? I'm pretty sure pro is better than gt right? I don't see any reason to get a gt over a pro their about the same price maybe $10-$20 difference depending on what brand you buy. I currrently have a x1950pro and play at 1650x1080 and can't say enough good things about it. Also, to agree with the person who said to g.skill ram I have to say that I have g.skill ram in my recently built computers and haven't had a problem. Except getting 4gb to work right on 32bit vista but I think that's something to do with vista and not the ram since I can switch out the ram at 3gb and it's fine no matter which three I use. Just a thought but I think you said you only want certain brands for ram so it's up to you but I've yet to have a problem with them. I think they have it on sale for like $70 or so for g.skill 2gb right now at newegg if I remember right.

I'm willing to consider G.Skill, the reviews look good. And yes, you're right on the X1950PRO. I guess I got confused. I'm finding $150-range Pros on Newegg, I'll modify the list.

 

[StorablePrawn]

Can anybody recommend some good, cheap monitors? I'm thinking of building a system similar to this one sometime soon and I only have a laptop, so I don't have any of the extras lying around.

 

[Lhadatt]

Video card changed to Powercolor X1950PRO w/512MB RAM and 600MHz GPU clock speed. $180 - $40 rebate = $140.

Newegg has some nice 20" widescreen LCDs starting at $180. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010190020+1309821318&name=20"

 

[TaeOH]

I appreciate what you are trying to do, but a $500 budget is really limiting when you are talking about a "gaming" PC to last a couple years. I think a more reasonable budget is around $800, otherwise you are outdated before you even build it. With that kind of budget, you are still cutting corners and going for value, but you have enough money to build something that is current. Not kickass, but damn good and will make you very happy coming from your current rig. It will be decent for two years too.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Video card changed to Powercolor X1950PRO w/512MB RAM and 600MHz GPU clock speed. $180 - $40 rebate = $140.

Newegg has some nice 20" widescreen LCDs starting at $180. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010190020+1309821318&name=20"

if newegg has it on sale again they used to have the x1950xt which is better supposedly than the 512 pro for around $150 give or take a few bucks if your spending around $150 you may want to look into that. They have it on sale liek every other week it seems though so I'm not sure if its $150 now it fluctuates a lot between 150 and 200.

Edit: Seems it's currently back up to $200, dunno when you're gonna buy it so you may want to keep an eye on it just incase. Also, just my personal experience again but if you go for a pro you should look at HIS iceq3 ones they seem really good in my experience i got mine for a little over $100 for a 256 one.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Does anyone have any experience with AIC Micro? Every time I consider building a gaming box, I end up looking here because it looks to be pretty...... easy.

 

[JoeFu]

For the people getting the 1950pro's how about spending a little more for the 1950xt?

I have that and I can run Bioshock smoothly at 1680x1050 with everything on max.

EDIT: the sapphire I got on newegg is out of stock i guess..

 

[SRG01]

Locally, the difference for a X1950 Pro 256MB and a X1950XT 256MB is around $60. Even more for the 512 versions.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

For the people getting the 1950pro's how about spending a little more for the 1950xt?

I have that and I can run Bioshock smoothly at 1680x1050 with everything on max.

EDIT: the sapphire I got on newegg is out of stock i guess..

I can run bioshock smoothly 1680x1050 everything on max with aa and af turned on with a 256mb pro...

 

[JoeFu]

Well, I guess there is really no huge significant difference. I read there is somewhere around 8 to 10% performance boost, but you also pay the difference.

Anyways, I'm loving my video card. I wonder how well it can run crysis.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Well, I guess there is really no huge significant difference. I read there is somewhere around 8 to 10% performance boost, but you also pay the difference.

Anyways, I'm loving my video card. I wonder how well it can run crysis.

Ya the benchmarks are better for the xt it's just that the games aren't hard enough on it enough to make it get under 30fps when using pro on max settings. But ya, I'm loving my video card too, I got it for $100 and I'm thinking it should run crysis pretty well considering how everything has run thus far for me. Like others said also it's about a $50 or more difference depending on the pro your getting. I got my pro for $100 and it's $200 for an xt currently at newegg but like I said before it fluctuates a lot between $200 and $150.

 

[Yasser]

sorry if this has already been answered but are there any good alternatives to newegg for people in uk/europe?

 

[SRG01]

Like I tell everyone, unless you're planning to use the HDMI and Dx10 features of the current generation, there's no reason why you shouldn't pick a previous gen card. Dx10 won't ramp up for another year or two -- partially because of XP support and partially because the drivers still suck in comparison -- so it'll be perfectly okay to buy a card two generations from now when Dx10 does mature.

 

[JoeFu]

Ya the benchmarks are better for the xt it's just that the games aren't hard enough on it enough to make it get under 30fps when using pro on max settings. But ya, I'm loving my video card too, I got it for $100 and I'm thinking it should run crysis pretty well considering how everything has run thus far for me. Like others said also it's about a $50 or more difference depending on the pro your getting. I got my pro for $100 and it's $200 for an xt currently at newegg but like I said before it fluctuates a lot between $200 and $150.

Yeah, I got the sapphire one for 170 after shipping too bad they don't have anymore at newegg atm. I think it was worth it, for that price, I can run pretty much all the new games at a constant framerate with everything up and on my resolution.

Just a question though. When you install the drivers, is windows supposed to say the specific card under the hardware management?

Mine shows up as 1950 series, also, steam says my drivers are outdated, but I have the newest ones...

Whatever. minor problems that I can ignore.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Yeah, I got the sapphire one for 170 after shipping too bad they don't have anymore at newegg atm. I think it was worth it, for that price, I can run pretty much all the new games at a constant framerate with everything up and on my resolution.

Just a question though. When you install the drivers, is windows supposed to say the specific card under the hardware management?

Mine shows up as 1950 series, also, steam says my drivers are outdated, but I have the newest ones...

Whatever. minor problems that I can ignore.

I don't remember for hardware manager but I can check when I get home, but ya steam tells me my drivers are outdated for my pro too even though they're like 2 weeks old.:lol But then again I'm using vista which I'm not sure if it has something to do with steam thinking it's an old version...

 

[JoeFu]

I don't remember for hardware manager but I can check when I get home, but ya steam tells me my drivers are outdated for my pro too even though they're like 2 weeks old.:lol But then again I'm using vista which I'm not sure if it has something to do with steam thinking it's an old version...

I'm running vista too. I was thinking that that was the problem.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I'm running vista too. I was thinking that that was the problem.

Ya, I just kinda figured the driver numbers are lower for vista and steam can't tell the difference so it thinks it's outdated. But I've never had problems so I just ignore it.

 

[Insertia]

So, the 1950 runs Bioshock at a good framerate? Will it run Crysis? I was considering getting the 8800gts, but I think it's best to wait.

Also, what motherboard and processor do you recommend to go along with it?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

So, the 1950 runs Bioshock at a good framerate? Will it run Crysis? I was considering getting the 8800gts, but I think it's best to wait.

It'll definately run crysis, can't say whether you will be able to do full everything or full everthing plus aa and af. All recent games I have bought have done full everything plus aa and af with my pro so I'm assuming but it can do the same for crysis but the requirements for it are still all over the place so I can't say until the demo comes out...

EDIT: Wait wasn't the sp demo supposed to come out the 25th for crysis?!?!?!!?!? Did I miss it or did it get pushed back?

 

[Insertia]

Cool, I guess it'll be my next graphics card.

Can you give a response to my edit?
I can build a computer just fine, but I know nothing of compatibility between motherboards, processors, and videocards.
What processor and motherboard do you suggest for the 1950?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Cool, I guess it'll be my next graphics card.

Can you give a response to my edit?
I can build a computer just fine, but I know nothing of compatibility between motherboards, processors, and videocards.
What processor and motherboard do you suggest for the 1950?

You don't need a specific motherboard or processor to run it but if your just looking for suggestions I personally bought a nvidia 680i motherboard with a e6750 processor. Depending on how good you are with computers and your willingness to overclock, you can overclock the e2160 I believe it is up to the performance of a 6750 on air and stock cooling. If I'm thinking correctly p35 motherboards are the way to go right now, they all accept dual and quad as far as I know. They have intel parts and so the drivers are steadier and work nicer usually. I plan on having sli eventually when better dx10 cards come out so I went for the sli board. I haven't had a problem so far with the drivers so far for the most part although it does bring up the window to reconnect to the internet every once in a while for some reason, but then again I haven't tried out sli either which apparently is where a lot of the driver issues come up. I forget if it's p35 or p15 that is a good sturdy board I think it's the p35 but you could double check by looking at any of the building threads we've had they say which one. But ya apparently later in the year newer dual cores and quad cores come out, and at some pretty nice price points. I believe theres a quad coming with 12 mb cache and around 3ghz speed for $300. So, I mean it depends on how long you plan on keeping it before you upgrade and how soon you plan on buying it. I love my e6750 and sli motherboard... but then again that's just me I know other people would disagree with me. I don't mind the minor driver problem I've had so far with the board. (Sorry if I don't make sense and for my forgetting certain exact things I'm like half asleep right now) Wow, I also apologize for the length I didn't realize I typed so much...

 

[Zapperkhan]

I just built up my computer last month and this is what I used. http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=5494992
You can probably swap out a mobo and maybe drop down on memory for ddr2 800. That would save you ~150 or so. The case is super nice but kinda expensive in most eyes. could shave off 50 bucks there if you downgrade. That would save you ~150 or so. With stock settings I got a 3DMark06 score of ~7800ish and OC'd I got it to about ~9600 with stock voltages still.

P.S. I was running the Crysis Beta with my settings at high and 1920x1200 and it was a lil choppy (~40 FPS) with no OC. I'm pretty sure this machine will last 2 years easy.

 

[Lhadatt]

That's a nice rig, but not quite the goal of this thread. Good choices though.

 

[dream]

Is it worth getting the E6750 over the E4400?

 

[MrNibbles]

Gimme your zip code and your max total final price. (I don't count rebates.)

I recently built myself a cheapo build for under $1000 shipped. Expecting $50 in rebates in the next week or so.

Core 2 Duo E4400
2 GB DDR800 (Corsair)
MSI P6N SLI
Panasonic 20x SATA DVD Burner
Coolermaster Centurion 5 Case (Silver)
Roswill 550W PSU
8400 GS
160 GB SATA HDD

19 Widescreen 5ms LCD
Nice headphones
Logitech standard USB keybaord
MS standard optical mouse

An awesome computer desk

A big pack of zip ties and stick pads

Free webcam from cheating at those club live games

You can check it out at www.flickr.com/sexconker

I know, I know, an 8400GS.
This was supposed to be a computer for downstairs for people to use the internets, but there really wasn't space to put it anywhere so I bought the desk for it and it's now my main computer. I have since ripped out Vista and put XP back on it. I'm looking into upgrading the GPU soon. I have the money, but I can't justify doing it so soon after building the thing. The 8400GS is an OK gpu (I can play WoW fine, and TF2 decently), but no amount of overclocking will fix it's tiny fill rate.

I did add an X-Fi to it since building it. (2 weeks ago)

You could easily get a very good build for under $750 shipped since you don't need a monitor, etc.. That's not counting rebates, either. I think you're spending too much for the motherboard and PSU. You could also get a MUCH better CPU and similar RAM for just a tad more $ if you exploited the combo deals.

You'll also be paying tax on that $137 in rebate moneys. For me (California) that's about $11 I will never get back, and $137 I will have to wait and hope for.

Oh, protip: AMD may be announcing price cuts on the 8th of October...

Also, newegg is nice, and I usually use them, but they're usually not the cheapest. Tigerdirect is basically newegg with a crappier site, slightly lower prices, and a smaller selection. (This all changes every single day though, which is the problem with planning a build).

 

[SaggyMonkey]

This is a fun thread, how about another one FOR the $1500 mark?

 

[JaY P.]

Core 2 Duo E4400
2 GB DDR800 (Corsair)
MSI P6N SLI
Panasonic 20x SATA DVD Burner
Coolermaster Centurion 5 Case (Silver)
Roswill 550W PSU
8400 GS
160 GB SATA HDD

19 Widescreen 5ms LCD
Nice headphones
Logitech standard USB keybaord
MS standard optical mouse

Wow your system looks remarkably similar to my setup.

Name: BOX
Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4ghz
2 x 1GB DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 G. Skill (These dimms rock!)
DFi Infinity 975g/x (Intel 975bx chipset)
ATi x1900xt 256 (256 I know! I am planning to upgrade when good dx10 cards come out)
Cooler Master Centurion 5 Case (black, with the bars on the side - this case looks sweet)
Hipper 580W modular PSU (also came in a neat looking toolbox)
200GB Western Digital SATA HDD

Accessories:
Logitch G7 cordless laser mouse
Saitek keyboard
BenQ 19" LCD with a claimed 2ms response time(complete BS)
Logitech 2.1 z2300 speakers (awsome bass)
I recycled an old SB Audigy 2 for my sound.

My grand total a little over a year ago was around $1300, Just for the box. The accessories I had from my old rig that died on me =(.

Lhadatt: Something like this should be closer to your budget today. Maybe a little bit over if you get the same processor.

 

[jtardiou]

Ok man I'm probably get something close to the rig you setup.

My friend says not to get that CPU and told me to get this one instead:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115016

thoughts? Twice the $, twice the good?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

"Ok man I'm probably get something close to the rig you setup.

My friend says not to get that CPU and told me to get this one instead:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115016

thoughts? Twice the $, twice the good?"

It's up to you E4400 if I remember correctly overclock pretty high on air which is what makes them worthwhile. If your gonna get a $200 chip you might as well get a e6750. They are ten bucks cheaper plus have a higher clock and such. The hundred dollar chip will be good if your going for a low price box or if don't mind overclocking. The E6750 is overclockable on air but not to the extent of the older chips did, people haven't been able to yet at least it's possible everntually then might, but the E6750 is a really nice chip and better than the E6420 if you do decide to spend $200 on a chip rather than $100.