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[bender]

Microsoft missing the mark with their product bundles should not be used as evidence, either way, regarding availability of the individual components in said bundle. It's just not a sound argument.

My thoughts too. It feels like shortage conversation has been going on for months, if not longer, and it always circles around to manufacturer bundles being available but the standalone unit not. At some point you have to figure this is intentional on Microsoft's part and a way of unofficially increasing the price. Further, if the demand were really high for the product, I don't think $60 more is going to stop anyone from jumping in, redundant or not to Game Pass. And before someone infers, that's not me saying that there is no demand for the product.

 

[DryvBy]

I don’t really see them on Amazon, just crappy inflated price bundles.

They were available even last week. Xbox brand has been claiming supply problems for over a month and they've been available up until very recently. This has been their excuse for the system not selling as well which is clearly a lie.

My Walmart has some in stock right now though so it looks like online at this minute is behind.

 

[NickFire]

I'll never be able to believe a shortage was real if single game bundles were readily available. People were paying double and triple the price of the high spec consoles for a long time, and outlets like gamestop were able to sell out of high priced store bundles in minutes if not seconds for a long time.

 

[93xfan]

At least it will get increase numbers once starfield hits. After that it's going back to shit.

They ducked up badly by not releasing any of their first party games this year.
2023 has nothing aside of Forza and starfield.

Are you ducking sure?

Also, Starfield and Forza are probably enough to keep us entertained for the rest of the year, as these aren’t cinematic games you finish over the weekend.

 

[MarkMe2525]

My thoughts too. It feels like shortage conversation has been going on for months, if not longer, and it always circles around to manufacturer bundles being available but the standalone unit not. At some point you have to figure this is intentional on Microsoft's part and a way of unofficially increasing the price. Further, if the demand were really high for the product, I don't think $60 more is going to stop anyone from jumping in, redundant or not to Game Pass. And before someone infers, that's not me saying that there is no demand for the product.

I would agree that for some, paying $60 more even if there isn't increased value is worth it. My "feeling" is that is not going to be the case for most casual gamers. We don't have any meaningful data that would point us one way or the other. There are situations were the demand is so feverish that I would agree that $60 wouldn't matter, but it doesn't seem that is the case for Xbox specifically. If the argument I was refuting had something to do with Xbox's demand "relative" to PS5, it would have more merit.

You could be right regarding MS intention of increasing it's PPU, but we can only speculate about that.

 

[Topher]

Those screenshots were provided after the broad assertion that "bundles are available so there are is no limited availability" was made. I realize you may have not been following the conversation through since the beginning. The poster I was speaking with made broad and overreaching claims. Therefore I was showing how the logic of such claims are flawed. If he was referring to a specific bundle from the get go, that is his burden to say so.

Even so, I still don't agree that because there is a bundle available, that is unattractive to many people, that shows supply isn't constrained. As you know, asking an Xbox customer to pay for a first party title upfront is redundant to many as they are included in gamepass.

Your very first post in this thread was differentiating the availability of the base model from bundles that are available on Amazon.

Not for the base model, at least in the US.
(Specifically Amazon as that's where you claimed you could get one from "right now".)

That factory bundle prices are outpacing demand is a much better argument.

Also, do you really want to be throwing your lot in with an individual who in there last post made the claim that " there isn't demand" for Xbox? I think anybody would agree that there isn't "as much" demand for Xbox as it's contemporaries, but the claim that there is no demand is a farse.

My posts are not thrown in with any "lot". Nothing I've posted suggests I agree with the statement "there isn't demand for Xbox". Unless I reply to someone in agreement you should refrain from making absurd assumptions like this.

 

[onQ123]

So after having to tell grandma over & over again that the black one is the more powerful Xbox I'm still going to end up with the Series S

 

[demigod]

There isn't demand? You are sure making many claims that are not backed by evidence, very telling. Have fun with that.

They were available even last week. Xbox brand has been claiming supply problems for over a month and they've been available up until very recently. This has been their excuse for the system not selling as well which is clearly a lie.

My Walmart has some in stock right now though so it looks like online at this minute is behind.

Whats this?

 

[MarkMe2525]

Nonsense. Your very first post in this thread was differentiating the availability of the base model from bundles that are available on Amazon.

You are right that I differentiated the difference in a availability of a product and the availability of said product bundled with a low value add on that a customer is left paying with.

Customers rejecting the obligatory purchase of an additional item, that they are not interested in, to secure a product they do want says absolutely nothing about the availability of said product by itself. The person that I was actually discussing this with rejected that notion and implied if the bundles are available, then there is not a supply constraint on an individual components of said bundle. I think this is a bad argument.

I will concede that my additional comment that "under that logic bundles have been available for both system for some time now" is an extreme example, but where does one draw that line that differentiates between a good value and a bad value. In both situations (factory bundles and retailer bundles) the customer is being asked to spend more money to purchase additional items they may not be interested in. In the case of the available Xbox bundles, I think most would agree that MS missed the ball and customers are going to look at the additional cost as a waste.

I obviously did a bad job of conveying my stance, but hopefully this clears it up some.

 

[harry mason 1989]

There's no shortage here in my country
I live in Saudi arabia and Xbox series x is available in every store here

 

[MarkMe2525]

Whats this?

Oh my... 1 out of the 3 retailers discussed today has the product available for shipping. You are right, there must be no demand

I guess this screenshot shows that, by your logic, there isn't any demand for the PS5 as well :/

What an asinine assertion.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There are no shortages.

Oh my... 1 out of the 3 retailers discussed today has the product available for shipping. You are right, there must be no demand

I guess this screenshot showed that, by your logic, there isn't any demand for the PS5 as well :/

Your logic is flawed. The PS5 is up 81% YoY and available. The Xbox is down 19% YoY and still available.

 

[demigod]

When they phase out the XSS 512GB, are these same folks going to come back here and complain there’s a shortage of XSS too?

 

[DeepEnigma]

When they phase out the XSS 512GB, are these same folks going to come back here and complain there’s a shortage of XSS too?

It's how they cleverly maneuver a price increase, innit.

 

[demigod]

Oh my... 1 out of the 3 retailers discussed today has the product available for shipping. You are right, there must be no demand

I guess this screenshot shows that, by your logic, there isn't any demand for the PS5 as well :/

What an asinine assertion.

There is no demand that causes a shortage, please keep up.

 

[Horseganador]

The xbox problem is not the shortage, it is the low demand for the console, whoever wants one has been able to buy it whenever they want.

 

[MarkMe2525]

There are no shortages.


Your logic is flawed. The PS5 is up 81% YoY and available. The Xbox is down 19% YoY and still available.

My logic is flawed? What on earth are you talking about?

demigod stated there is no demand for Xbox and provided a screenshot of Walmart shipping them as evidence for that specific ridiculous claim. He did not assert "there is less demand for Xbox than PS5" which would be reasonable and accurate.

So again I ask, what about my logic is flawed? I would love to know how PS5 being up 81% YoY means that there is no demand for Xbox.

 

[NickFire]

My logic is flawed? What on earth are you talking about?

demigod stated there is no demand for Xbox and provided a screenshot of Walmart shipping them as evidence for that specific ridiculous claim. He did not assert "there is less demand for Xbox than PS5" which would be reasonable and accurate.

So again I ask, what about my logic is flawed? I would love to know how PS5 being up 81% YoY means that there is no demand for Xbox.

Your logic is fine. But why equate there is no demand with the literal meaning of the phrase? No one means it literally.

 

[DeepEnigma]

My logic is flawed? What on earth are you talking about?

demigod stated there is no demand for Xbox and provided a screenshot of Walmart shipping them as evidence for that specific ridiculous claim. He did not assert "there is less demand for Xbox than PS5" which would be reasonable and accurate.

So again I ask, what about my logic is flawed? I would love to know how PS5 being up 81% YoY means that there is no demand for Xbox.

The logic of "there is no demand for the PS5" counter argument.

All people are saying is that the PS5 is up YoY and available (no shortages)

The Xbox is down YoY and available (no shortages)

This is just an excuse that counters what he said just a few weeks back about the lack of games was the reason they are taking a pounding and that even if they had bangers, it won't move the needle. He literally admitted that the demand is not the same between the two consoles a few weeks ago and "no AAA bangers will change or move the needle." (paraphrased)

He is trying to set a new social media fantard marching orders narrative.

 

[CityHunter1981]

I think it’s pretty funny that Phil basically said: We heard you, so get rid of the console you already have and buy a new one.

Also at that price point, why not make the jump to X directly, Series S is already struggling now with some more demanding games and is holding the whole XBOX infrastructure back.

 

[MarkMe2525]

There is no demand that causes a shortage, please keep up.

Keep up? You mean attempting to decifer your broad and overreaching claims? If you have already forgotten what you said less than an hour ago, here you go.

And i made it clear you can get the bundles, hence no shortages. Go blame ms, there simply isn’t demand.

It would be easier to follow you, if you didn't keep bouncing the goalpost all over the place. All I can respond to is what you type, and what you said here simply "there are no shortages, there is no demand".

I would like to point out that those two are not mutually exclusive. You can have great demand and not have any shortages if a company can produce enough units. This is obvious.

So again, how can the fact that a product is available to be shipped from Walmart
be used evidence that there is no demand for said product? Are you aware of what being in demand means?

 

[MarkMe2525]

The logic of "there is no demand for the PS5" counter argument.

Lol are you being serious? That was a rhetorical tool to show how ridiculous his statement was. Of course PS5 being available to ship has no bearing on if it is in demand or not. That is the point, as the person I was responding to was using a screenshot of the Xbox being available as evidence that there is no demand for it.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Lol are you being serious? That was a rhetorical tool to show how ridiculous his statement was. Of course PS5 being available to ship has no bearing on if it is in demand or not. That is the point, as the person I was responding to was using a screenshot of the Xbox being available as evidence that there is no demand for it.

I thought they were showing that there was no shortage as to why they were down YoY, the PR narrative Phil Spencer seemed to elude and pivot to. One that goes against his last statement he probably got a talking to by upper management for.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Your logic is fine. But why equate there is no demand with the literal meaning of the phrase? No one means it literally.

All I can go off of is what I read. I even gave the person I was responding to a chance to clarify his statement. Instead of clarification, the poster provided a picture of Xbox being available to ship from Walmart with the added comment of "what is this then?" I'm not sure what else I am supposed to think.

Of course, when it comes to reading and comprehending the written word, our internal biases can always cloud the author's original intention. While you state that no one means for the phrase "there is no demand for x" to actually mean that, the only way I would write that phrase is if I actually meant it. And personally, I found some of the other remarks from the poster so full of hyperbole, that such a ridiculous claim didn't seem out of place (my bias that I was speaking of).

I thought they were showing that there was no shortage as to why they were down YoY, the PR narrative Phil Spencer seemed to elude and pivot to. One that goes against his last statement he probably got a talking to by upper management for.

I can see how that mistake was made. Generally speaking, I attempt to stay out of discussions such as those, as I have no interest in deciphering the alleged "hidden meaning" or "spin" of these PR messages.

Truthfully I find the constant labeling of anything said by any gaming executive as "PR bullshit" exhausting and unproductive. I often wonder if people realize what PR really means. Literally any communication from a business to the public is "PR" to some degree. The fact that it is "PR" has no bearing on the validity of said statements.

 

[demigod]

Keep up? You mean attempting to decifer your broad and overreaching claims? If you have already forgotten what you said less than an hour ago, here you go.

It would be easier to follow you, if you didn't keep bouncing the goalpost all over the place. All I can respond to is what you type, and what you said here simply "there are no shortages, there is no demand".

I would like to point out that those two are not mutually exclusive. You can have great demand and not have any shortages if a company can produce enough units. This is obvious.

So again, how can the fact that a product is available to be shipped from Walmart
be used evidence that there is no demand for said product? Are you aware of what being in demand means?

Not a shortage, ms decided to stealth price increase in USA and forced the shitty bundle. They could’ve just made more console only. Go blame them. You can come back to me when you can’t find any forced bundle out of stock.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Not a shortage, ms decided to stealth price increase in USA and forced the shitty bundle. They could’ve just made more console only. Go blame them. You can come back to me when you can’t find any forced bundle out of stock.

And they're doing it with the S as well now. Almost 3 years in, and you up the price because you make it 1TB storage and color it black? In the past, the lesser storage would get a price cut and the new storage would be the current pricing model. Cost of storage tech traditionally goes down as the years go on.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Not a shortage, ms decided to stealth price increase in USA and forced the shitty bundle. They could’ve just made more console only. Go blame them. You can come back to me when you can’t find any forced bundle out of stock.

I applaud your ability to state such conspiracy theories as fact without hesitation. While any assertion may be true, you seem to be falling into the trap of "correlation equals causation". This is simply a logical fallacy.

You're speculative assertion requires some scheme to intentionally limit packaging of à la carte Xboxes below demand while simultaneously overproducing bundle boxes to increase Xbox's PPU. (Classic conspiracy)

Your claim is in direct conflict with the fact that both of these things below can be true.

1) People want an Xbox. An Xbox by itself sells relatively fast hence why some people "can" have issues finding one readily available. (Classic example of limited availability)

2) People want an Xbox, but are unwilling to spend an additional $60 on a game that they don't want or they find redundant due to their intention to subscribe to Game pass. In turn, these bundles don't sell as fast as the box by itself. (Hence why they are more readily available)

Occam's razor suggest that the situation above probably is the case considering this is exactly how supply and demand market forces work.

Always keep in mind that correlation does not equal causation. This one truth will allow you to see how nonsensical most conspiracy theories are.

demigod Like you, I also didn't really have much of a response when I myself was shown to be falling victim to this same fallacy. I probably would have clicked the same "lol" emoji if one was available at the time.

 

[mckmas8808]

c-
Too much cgi ingame trailer and less gameplay. I am a gameplay guy, not trailer.

At least starfield is going to make me busy on steam.

Isn't CGI-Ingame an oxymoron?

 

[Draxon Gamer]

Arguments presented in this thread are sponsored by Thesaurus.com

Learn new political words to make your argument look all the more intelligent than it is in reality, by choosing the right words to throw in your paragraphs.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

Now we need some games to fill it, Phil.

We need more, cheaper storage options. I want a 4 TB expansion card which doesn't exist and will cost a fortune. I miss playing off external drives. So easy/cheap to buy off the shelf bulk storage.

 

[EdGalTBR]

PS5 Digital edition 399
Xbox Series S 349

Good luck with that.

Which one plays Starfield?

 

[jm89]

Which one plays Starfield?

Which one plays Spiderman?

 

[Kvally]

Now we need some games to fill it, Phil.

Back to Xbox has no games

 

[Banjo64]

Which one plays Spiderman?

Which one plays TotK?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Phil said "supply significantly increased" but he did not say that there were any shortages.

Big difference.

 

[rnlval]

Just mentioned at the showcase. Phil Spencer confirmed the Series X stock issues but also revealed that he has resolved them. They are also producing a new more expensive Xbox Series S, the difference being it's going to be colored in black instead of white and a 1TB SSD..

The Digital PS5 edition has a $399 price tag. Try again Phil.

 

[Riky]

£299 for the Black Series S here in the UK, would be better if it was the same £249 bit it's cheaper than a white Series S and an expansion card.
With the size of Series S games it is now the most generous default storage you get with a console.

 

[crackajack]

PR BS as always from him, but he will also backpeddle on his stupid statement about exclusive won't help them, once Starfield moves numbers.
I actually hope it does at least, since Sony needs actual competition and until Starfield launches Sony will built up a huge lead in sales.

The white Series S did not even sell out for 222€ here, so trying 349$ which equates probably to 349€ is bold.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

Which one plays Starfield?

I'd rather buy a premium console and play Starfield on xCloud. That way I can also play Final Fantasy XVI and Spider-Man 2.

 

[EdGalTBR]

I'd rather buy a premium console and play Starfield on xCloud. That way I can also play Final Fantasy XVI and Spider-Man 2.

Good for you.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I’m sure it’s been said already, but why buy the new Series S for $349 when you can pay $50 more to get the much more powerful digital PS5? It should of replaced the Series 2 for $299.