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[Mr.Potato Head]

some moderators are quite extreme and biased around here, MikeB got banned for preferring the PSN over XBox Live (free online gamig for everyone, dedicated servers together with awesome exclusive PSN games like Warhawk, no really liking XNE [like most NeoGaf members it seems], etc.)

There is a problem when there are too many "chiefs" and not enough indians..in this case..this site has too many biased moderators and not enough reasonable moderators i guess you can say. I've seen the same thing happen when someone talked down on wii in here..thank goodness this particular "nintendo" fanboy of a moderator no longer is a moderator.

I think the mods should keep moderatoring but at the same time.. maybe admins can moderate the mods a bit closer. There has been countless times when i seen good people in here get shafted big time all because some moderator went on a power trip and broke Gaf's own set of rules..and that is simply being a immature fanboy.

Dont get me wrong..gaf has a ton of members and im sure it gets hard on the staff but when good people get shafted because some moderator is a immature fanboy in the closet..its a sad day indeed in gaf.

 

[SamBa]

@ spwolf

It wasn't about video per se. I was just pointing out the Cell processor is really powerful with regard to complex calculations.

 

[Sanic]

There has been countless times when i seen good people in here get shafted big time all because some moderator went on a power trip and broke Gaf's own set of rules..and that is simply being a immature fanboy.

some moderators are quite extreme and biased around here, MikeB got banned for preferring the PSN over XBox Live (free online gamig for everyone, dedicated servers together with awesome exclusive PSN games like Warhawk, no really liking XNE [like most NeoGaf members it seems], etc.)

And that's not being an immature fanboy? Granted, I wouldn't go as far as using that strong a word, but saying 'PSN has x awesome game' isn't an argument, it's an opinion. MikeB/SamBa (same guy?) are/were good at being subtle with their biases. It's alright to favor a platform (why you would, I don't know), but I can understand why some mods and forumgoers would could be annoyed at this sort of behavior.

 

[Moobabe]

And that's not being an immature fanboy? Granted, I wouldn't go as far as using that strong a word, but saying 'PSN has x awesome game' isn't an argument, it's an opinion. MikeB/SamBa (same guy?) are/were good at being subtle with their biases. It's alright to favor a platform (why you would, I don't know), but I can understand why some mods and forumgoers would could be annoyed at this sort of behavior.

I think it depends. This thread is obviously dedicated to the PS3 - surely as long as people aren't slating a different platform then the discussion is fine?

 

[Stink]

...and after all this still no discussion on the obvious higher cost of PS3 development.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

...and after all this still no discussion on the obvious higher cost of PS3 development.

Yeah, because Killzone 2 costed $60 million, right?

 

[Sanic]

I think it depends. This thread is obviously dedicated to the PS3 - surely as long as people aren't slating a different platform then the discussion is fine?

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with the discussion, it's fine for these kind of love threads to exist. I was just throwing in my two cents on the situation that was brought up.

 

[SamBa]

...and after all this still no discussion on the obvious higher cost of PS3 development.

Depends, if you want to make good use of the PS3's capabilities sure it costs more. Like it would cost more to make an Amiga game vs a PC game as it had more specialized capabilities in the past (like thousands of colors, multi-tasking, stereo sound, etc).

 

[SamBa]

Yeah, because Killzone 2 costed $60 million, right?

Initial R&D costs a lot of investments, but the second game can use a less modified engine to still impress. Crytek for instance already made their game heavily multi-threaded on the PC, so it may not come as a surprise they don't think the PS3 was hard to develop for.

Many early games came from a background of single-threaded PC game engine (like Half-life) or from the now ancient PS2 (technology wise).

Of course if your engine is up to the task, artists can and want to do more, like in GOD3 with those chimeras, centaur generals, cronos, hades, etc boss battles. Such things will take more time to develop.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Initial R&D costs a lot of investments, but the second game can use a less modified engine to still impress. Crytek for instance already made their game heavily multi-threaded on the PC, so it may not come as a surprise they don't think the PS3 was hard to develop for.

Many early games came from a background of single-threaded PC game engine (like Half-life) or from the now ancient PS2 (technology wise).

Of course if your engine is up to the task, artists can and want to do more, like in GOD3 with those chimeras, centaur generals, cronos, hades, etc boss battles. Such things will take more time to develop.

I am aware of all this, I was being sarcastic. :lol

 

[SamBa]

I wonder why Halo 3's budget was so high.

The story is weak, campaign short and repetitive. The multi-player has the same simple models, basically red vs blue and identical (no facial stuff to develop for different players, etc). Graphics are sub-HD and even lacking (free.. ahem...) anti-aliasing... ;-)

I think the budged was more marketing related than development related. :lol

 

[Metalmurphy]

Because it's the platform with the lowest capacity for storage. This is a multi-platform game also on the XBox 360.

So what? I was responding to your claim that the PS3 would have superior assets then the PC version. That's an insanely stupid thing to say.

A downgraded Cell can for instance decode 48 MPEG-2 streams simultaneously as demonstrated by Toshiba.

Of course regarding lossy formats it may make more sense to choose lossless formats on the PS3 vs PC.

Why does this matter? >.< You're not making any sense at all.

 

[Sanic]

I wonder why Halo 3's budget was so high.

The story is weak, campaign short and repetitive. The multi-player has the same simple models, basically red vs blue and identical (no facial stuff to develop for different players, etc). Graphics are sub-HD and even lacking (free.. ahem...) anti-aliasing... ;-)

I think the budged was more marketing related than development related. :lol

Possibly, but it worked out well for them. Not sure how your comment about facial stuff is relevent, everyone is wearing helmets?

The problem with the Halo series is that I believe Bungie essentially iterates on their base tech as time goes by, instead of truly rebuilding everything from the ground up as they say. I like to use the analogy of building a scale model, or other such item. They may have used a different kind of material for this latest model, but they're still using the same glue.

And again:

The story is weak, campaign short and repetitive. The multi-player has the same simple models, basically red vs blue and identical (no facial stuff to develop for different players, etc). Graphics are sub-HD and even lacking (free.. ahem...) anti-aliasing... ;-)

This is why some people get mad. You throw out opinions that are irelevant to the discussion.

 

[JaseC]

Possibly, but it worked out well for them. Not sure how your comment about facial stuff is relevent, everyone is wearing helmets?

He's suggesting the use of helmets is an easier/cheaper job than worrying about individual faces.

Spoiler

Unless I've misunderstood.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Halo: Reach looks excellent, IMO.

Although I'm not sure why Halo-related posts are being made in this thread because they will surely bring in flame and other bad stuff into this thread.

 

[JaseC]

Halo: Reach looks excellent, IMO.

Although I'm not sure why Halo-related posts are being made in this thread because they will surely bring in flame and other bad stuff into this thread.

At least it's not Alan Wake. :lol

 

[Sanic]

He's suggesting the use of helmets is an easier/cheaper job than worrying about individual faces.

Spoiler

Unless I've misunderstood.

Ignoring astethic choices, that may have been the case back in 2001. But they're not going to just randomly go change it later in the series to prove a stupid fanboy argument. I understand what he's saying, but It's a stupid thing to bring up.

 

[SamBa]

So what? I was responding to your claim that the PS3 would have superior assets then the PC version. That's an insanely stupid thing to say.

Actuallly I stated I doubted the PS3 version would show more varierty/higher quality assets than the PC version (will not fill up a Blu-Ray disc, nor heavily optimised for Blu-Ray streaming).

So the *exact* opposite of what you state here.... ???

 

[Metalmurphy]

Actuallly I stated I doubted the PS3 version would show more varierty/higher quality assets than the PC version (will not fill up a Blu-Ray disc, nor heavily optimised for Blu-Ray streaming).

So the *exact* opposite of what you state here.... ???

Ah crap >.< Miss read it. My bad.

 

[JaseC]

Ignoring astethic choices, that may have been the case back in 2001. But they're not going to just randomly go change it later in the series to prove a stupid fanboy argument. I understand what he's saying, but It's a stupid thing to bring up.

I don't think anyone would disagree.

 

[SamBa]

The story is weak, campaign short and repetitive.

This is why some people get mad. You throw out opinions that are irelevant to the discussion.

OK to make everyone happy I will correct myself. The story is very strong, like a blockbuster movie, the campaign is one of the lenghtiest I've played and every section of the game looks very unique.

 

[Sanic]

OK to make everyone happy I will correct myself. The story is very strong, like a blockbuster movie, the campaign is one of the lenghtiest I've played and every section of the game looks very unique.

I fail to see how I wasn't clear. You're bringing design and story into a thread dedicated to a piece of gaming hardware. There was no need to mention those aspects of the game beyond getting in a quick jab at 'the inferior console'.

 

[SamBa]

I fail to see how I wasn't clear. You're bringing design and story into a thread dedicated to a piece of gaming hardware. There was no need to mention those aspects of the game beyond getting in a quick jab at 'the inferior console'.

I was reponding to development costs.

I loved Kameo, Oblivion is a more lenghty game.

 

[Sanic]

I was reponding to development costs.

I loved Kameo, Oblivion is a more lenghty game.

And money spent is not in any way linearly related to the quality of the game. Too Human, anyone? Your post didn't add anything to the thread.

 

[JaseC]

OK to make everyone happy I will correct myself. The story is very strong, like a blockbuster movie, the campaign is one of the lenghtiest I've played and every section of the game looks very unique.

:lol

 

[AndyD]

WHat with the derailing and all.

I have a question that may bring us on topic:

Do we know anything about the Move SDK and its usage on the SPUs? Not just motion control, but even just using the camera and microphone features only.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

WHat with the derailing and all.

I have a question that may bring us on topic:

Do we know anything about the Move SDK and its usage on the SPUs? Not just motion control, but even just using the camera and microphone features only.

The SPU usage is very small. SPUs are immensely powerful and Move isn't really seriously performance starved.

 

[Kittonwy]

In the beginning many were sceptical, after games like Uncharted 2 and God of War 3 have people here become more open minded with regard to the Cell?

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/behind-the-uncharted-2/58526

They did an amazing job making everything feel real in Uncharted 2, all the little objects like bottles and boxes you can step on and move and shoot and they're properly shadowed and not just cheap props, the level of density in the levels and the quality of the lighting and shadowing I still don't think any other PS3 game has matched. Using SPU for animation blending was a good move.

 

[SamBa]

IGN: With Sony's specs out, Microsoft has sent us its a comparitive analysis. What's the outcome?

http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

Who will trust Microsoft in the future?

Microsoft was effective recruiting XBots with this... You would get slaughtered if you tried to counter this with more balanced insight...

 

[spwolf]

WHat with the derailing and all.

I have a question that may bring us on topic:

Do we know anything about the Move SDK and its usage on the SPUs? Not just motion control, but even just using the camera and microphone features only.

they said it was insignificant, we dont know much more...

 

[SamBa]

That unbiased analysis must be "well within industry standards". :lol

 

[Afrikan]

That unbiased analysis must be "well within industry standards". :lol

SamBa....come on buddy....this is going places we don't want it to go....lets just stick with the PS3 info.

this is like when a skinny person calls a fat person, fat..... or pretty girl calling an ugly girl, ugly.

lets just be humble about this and move on.

 

[Baki]

...and after all this still no discussion on the obvious higher cost of PS3 development.

Where did you get that from? :lol :lol

HD games in general are expensive to produce.

 

[Nizz]

SamBa....come on buddy....this is going places we don't want it to go....lets just stick with the PS3 info.

this is like when a skinny person calls a fat person, fat..... or pretty girl calling an ugly girl, ugly.

lets just be humble about this and move on.

I agree. It's nice to have this thread to discuss the PS3 hardware and how capable it is. On topic, I wish that Sony would incorporate the motion blur in first party games like God of War 3 into their SDK.

I've seen motion blur missing from a couple of PS3 versions of multiplat games. Is it so difficult to implement that effect in games? But the motion blur is GoW3 is great, really well done. Killzone 2 has some nice motion blur also.

 

[LosDaddie]

SamBa....come on buddy....this is going places we don't want it to go....lets just stick with the PS3 info.

Was there any doubt how this thread would end up?

 

[Sanic]

IGN: With Sony's specs out, Microsoft has sent us its a comparitive analysis. What's the outcome?

http://uk.xbox360.ign.com/articles/617/617951p1.html

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/617/617951/microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041730222_640w.jpg[img]

[img]http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/617/617951/microsofts-xbox-360-vs-sonys-playstation-3-20050520041728972_640w.jpg[img]

Who will trust Microsoft in the future?

Microsoft was effective recruiting XBots with this... You would get slaughtered if you tried to counter this with more balanced insight...[/QUOTE]

That's from 2005, and the IGN article clearly mentions it's been slanted. Plus, you need to account for any other variables that were in the equation at the time, such as the fact that raw specs don't account for everything. What's the point in digging this up and posting it in a thread called "PS3 and SPU usage"?. So Sony has never lied about the capabilites of its system? This is not the place to bring up PR wars from 5 years ago.

[QUOTE]On topic, I wish that Sony would incorporate the motion blur in first party games like God of War 3 into their SDK.

I've seen motion blur missing from a couple of PS3 versions of multiplat games. Is it so difficult to implement that effect in games? But the motion blur is [/QUOTE]

Yes, that would be great. Some games, like Just Cause 2, lack any kind of motion blur on PS3 for whatever reason, so this would be nice.

 

[Afrikan]

Was there any doubt how this thread would end up?

actually this thread has been pretty good for a while now.....I missed the updates when MikeB was banned.

if it just sticks to PS3 info, like it has in the past....it should be fine.

that Microsoft stuff....imo, not that important...I personally feel they have done much worse than that in the game industry......so lets just leave these types of opinions in other threads.

 

[Ashes]

More on God of antialiasing folks:
http://www.realtimerendering.com/blog/more-on-god-of-war-iii-antialiasing/

 

[JaseC]

More on God of antialiasing folks:
http://www.realtimerendering.com/blog/more-on-god-of-war-iii-antialiasing/

Posted on the previous page.

 

[Ashes]

 

[Truespeed]

WHat with the derailing and all.

I have a question that may bring us on topic:

Do we know anything about the Move SDK and its usage on the SPUs? Not just motion control, but even just using the camera and microphone features only.

The Move uses 1 SPU and has a memory footprint of about 1.5 - 2MB. The single SPU it uses is not dedicated so it can be used for other things if the Move hasn't acquired it. Also, Anton mentioned that the code can track up to 4 controllers on a single SPU.

 

[SamBa]

That's from 2005, and the IGN article clearly mentions it's been slanted. Plus, you need to account for any other variables that were in the equation at the time

I don't think so, Microsoft's technology experts are not technology illiterate. Looking at the state of gaming engines and the differences with the new architecture, likely they knew they would be able to get away with spreading propaganda for the first couple of years to help spurt sales and damage the competition.

Back then you nearly couldn't have a decent technology discussion on the Cell or PS3 because of such antics. And we can hardly blame the XBots for that, their disruption for spreading such gospel could be expected with such behaviour by Microsoft.

Anyway I thought it was funny, it's kind of weird few on this board protested in the past when the tables were turned. I am not what you would call a Sony fan, PS fan or Japanese, but Sony has been treated much less with gloves on than Microsoft, usually a lot of sugarcoating is going on at this board if people talk about Microsoft's bad rep.

 

[Mr_Brit]

I don't think so, Microsoft's technology experts are not technology illiterate. Looking at the state of gaming engines and the differences with the new architecture, likely they knew they would be able to get away with spreading propaganda for the first couple of years to help spurt sales and damage the competition.

Back then you nearly couldn't have a decent technology discussion on the Cell or PS3 because of such antics. And we can hardly blame the XBots for that, their disruption for spreading such gospel could be expected with such behaviour by Microsoft.

Anyway I thought it was funny, it's kind of weird few on this board protested in the past when the tables were turned. I am not what you would call a Sony fan, PS fan or Japanese, but Sony has been treated much less with gloves on than Microsoft, usually a lot of sugarcoating is going on at this board if people talk about Microsoft's bad rep.

You do know the top graph about bandwidth is true? The 360 is famously easy to develop for partly due to its crazy bandwidth compared to the bandwidth starved PS3.

 

[SamBa]

You do know the top graph about bandwidth is true? The 360 is famously easy to develop for partly due to its crazy bandwidth compared to the bandwidth starved PS3.

Of course not, they added the GPU's internal bandwidth which is misleading. While doing so they did not add the Cell's internal bandwidth reducing this "comparison" from meaningless into an abomination.

 

[SamBa]

@ Mr_Brit

And that crap is spread on no less than tens of thousands of english languaged websites... wow

 

[Sanic]

And we can hardly blame the XBots for that

Please, stop that, for your own benefit.

I am not what you would call a Sony fan, PS fan or Japanese

I have no idea what kind of connection you're trying to make there with the Japanese reference...

As for your response as a whole, I said the article was slanted, which should cover all the bases as far as 'Microsoft was lying'. I never said they weren't, I was stating how that article has no relevence to this thread. And I don't see any sugercoating going on here, do you read these boards often? Most (sensible) people get mad at any slight against the consumer, period, regardless of what company it comes from. Again, I don't see the point in bringing this kind of stuff into this thread because, again, Sony is very very far itself from having a perfect track record itself. And with that, i'm out. Reading back through the thread, I see i'll get nowhere continuing this pointless conversation. Let's hope this turns around to some nice tech discussions in the future.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Posted on the previous page.

Incredibly fascinating. Pretty much the most advanced form of AA ever done on consoles?

 

[Truespeed]

Incredibly fascinating. Pretty much the most advanced form of AA ever done on consoles?

I'd say so especially when you consider how little time it takes to achieve the result and it's totally GPU independent. The PS3 is the new AA king.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I'd say so especially when you consider how little time it takes to achieve the result and it's totally GPU independent. The PS3 is the new AA king.

It certainly makes the game look like real time bullshots. Does wonders for the shadows too.

 

[SamBa]

I have no idea what kind of connection you're trying to make there with the Japanese reference...

I think some people (including some journalists) are being patriotic in their biased defense of Microsoft / attacks on Sony. So I think there must be additional aspects to this, because much behaviour we have seen in the past was very remote from being balanced and objective.