ManaByte
Gold Member
Yes, I own a PS5 and there was never a charge to play your PS4 games on it. Do you own a PS5?
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Rumor: Random Internet Forum User claims Switch 2 BC sent to developers
Yes, I own a PS5 and there was never a charge to play your PS4 games on it. Do you own a PS5?
JordiENP
Member
It has been like 9 years since the Tegra was completed. It's not going to have a "small hardware update " even if they wanted.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
To play some enhanced PS3/PS4 games there is a fee.
Nintendo has charged $60 in the past to do such.
I own PS5's.
ManaByte
Gold Member
The only way to play an enhanced PS3 game on PS5 is to purchase a remaster.
Do you not know the difference between a remaster and backwards compatibility?
There is zero charge to play a PS4 game you already own on the PS5. There is zero charge to play a Xbox/360/Xbox One game you already own on a XSX/XSS. There's never been a charge for backwards compatibility on any console dating all the way back to the Atari 5200.
spons
Gold Member
Can't you just put in a PS4 disc and play those games on PS5? Never heard of it costing money, aside from the PS5 upgrades where paid developers worked on a product to make it better, in which case I don't blame them for asking money.
LordOcidax
Member
You don’t have access to the Wii U games library on the Switch. They make “newer” versions of the Wii U games and sold it at full price. Not the same situation.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
I just recently paid $10 to play the PS4 enhanced TLOU2.
Also paid on the Switch to play Wii U games. We don't want to mention the monthly fee Nintendo charges to play many classics.
Not in all games like TLOU 2.
ManaByte
Gold Member
No, you paid $10 for the PS5 port. The 60fps PS4 patch was free.
The Switch isn't a Wii U. How the fuck would you put a Wii U disc in the Switch for BC?
ReyBrujo
Member
They would be fool but with MIG they would have the console hacked before even released...
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
"Enhanced" not a remaster like Nintendo does see below.
People did buy digital wii u games so this doesn't fly.
They charged $60 to play wii and wii u games
Yup, it's an image loader on the wii side of things. If I remember correctly.
I should really do that, my wii disk drive is dying.
Woopah
Member
Ports were only a meaningful part of Switch's lineup in 2018 and 2020.
They haven't had a first party dry spell from the start of 2021 onwards. Potentially there will be a dry spell from April 2024 until the launch of Switch 2 if they hold games back for the successor. The next Direct will tell us if that's the case.
He's on a similar level to Grubb. Has contacting the industry, but that doesn't mean everything he hears is true or still in date.
dragonyeuw
Member
No, you paid $10 for the native PS5 version of the game as an upgrade path from the PS4 version, which is BC and received a free 60fps patch a few years ago.
cireza
Member
So you basically agree with what I said. If this thing is custom built to be 100% BC, it will be a lower gap than if it did not have to bother with BC.
Nintendo will not bother with a complicated BC that might work or not depending on the game, and will require patches and recompiling. This is definitely not how they work. So the new chip will be largely based, and thus limited, by the existing one. That's my guess.
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LordOcidax
Member
Switch 2 is going to have the same architecture as the Switch… Having backwards compatibility doesn’t limit the hardware improvement at all… Imagine going from a GTX970 to a RTX2070. They don’t have to put any extra hardware for internal emulation.
cireza
Member
All previous BC efforts by Nintendo have been 100% hardware BC, NOT emulation. Emulation is where you start having risks of things not working and need to validate everything. I don't think they will go this route, but who knows, maybe 2024 is the year where Nintendo will take a technical risk ? Still sounds extremely unlikely to me. They want to sell cheap and make a profit day-one.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
If you played both you would know it was a PS4 game enhanced on PS5.
Lets not confuse a REMAKE like Demon's Souls with a enhanced title which is virtually identical with the original.
Same with(on topic and more guilty) Nintendo charging for wii and wii u games on the switch.
LordOcidax
Member
They don’t need emulation of any kind on the Switch 2 to run Switch games because is the same architecture but more powerful, is simple.
cireza
Member
You said yourself it was emulation lol.
ReyBrujo
Member
XSS cannot read discs so it's not truly backwards compatible.
One can never be sure of that until knowing the Switch 2 chipset.
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LordOcidax
Member
I said.. They dont have to…
Gameplay Gods Bless
Member
I played Xenoblade Chronicles 3 at 8k on PC and it looked amazing!
dragonyeuw
Member
Nothing is confused and nobody is talking about what constitutes a remake here. There are two versions of TLOU2 available, the PS4 version and a native PS5 version with slightly enhanced visuals and extra modes. The PS4 version that came out in 2020 has been playable on the PS5 with 60fps for free. The PS5 version that came out last month is not. It is a separate version that existing PS4 owners can upgrade for $10, or it is available standalone for $50.
cireza
Member
This sentence is ambiguous :
It can be understood as "they don't need extra hardware to implement internal emulation".
It seems that you actually meant "they don't need internal emulation and the extra hardware required for it".
We will see anyway.
ManaByte
Gold Member
If you own the game digitally it is.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Multiple versions of enhanced Nintendo games have been released over the years and they weren't $10.
So again on point... Nintendo has a history with doing such things which makes it possible to repeat with the next device.
I'd be glad if the resolution and anti aliasing was better. FXAA these days? gtfo, Nintendo. Edges in Zelda flickers and shimmer constantly like crazy and all those jagged edges...BoTW boosted to 60fps.
Ps. I know I know. PC emulation etc.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
There was never a chance next-gen platform wouldn’t allow BC of at least most Switch games. Literally for years they’ve been talking about the cleanest generational transition they’ve ever had being their top priority. Using Nintendo Accounts and allowing our Switch games to carry over would certainly be part of that smooth transition. No one’s expecting major new disruptive input gimmicks that would make controlling older games difficult out-of-the-box. Wii & DS-era input gimmicks are safely in the past. They had no staying power and people got bored with them.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
PS4-ish is what it’s sounding like. Plus all the modern abilities of newer chips. But just like Switch, Nintendo will not hesitate to sacrifice performance in order to achieve better battery & power consumption targets.
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ManaByte
Gold Member
Nintendo didn’t charge to play Wii games on the Wii U.
dragonyeuw
Member
Ok, but I'm not here talking to you about Nintendo. So again on my point, I addressed your comment about paying $10 for the PS5 version of the TLOU2, making the distinction between the PS4 version that is playable for free on PS5 and the separate PS5 version released 3 weeks ago that has an $10 upgrade path option for existing owners of the original PS4 version.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Just to buy them. But no, charging for BC of owned games would be new for them. Not including the upgrade fee for Virtual Console purchases from Wii-to-Wii U. But for upgraded versions of games, PlayStation and other publishers do charge a fee. So I don’t think it would be at all unreasonable or controversial for Nintendo to follow suit. Not everything can be free
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
They did for other non remakes(enhanced)
Most importantly.. they do with the current gen Nintendo .
No, you didn't and don't waste either of our time.
ManaByte
Gold Member
PlayStation does not charge to play a PS4 game you already own on the PS5.
dragonyeuw
Member
Yes, that's expressly what I did from the very get-go.
Nobody is forcing you to respond if your time is being wasted. Nobody forced you to spend $10 to play TLOU2 on your PS5 either. Both are you choices.
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BlackTron
Member
Nintendo has always released enhanced ports in addition to BC. For example, if you get Link's Awakening DX for GBC, that is not a $30 charge to play LA on GBC using BC. You can simply put the original non-DX cartridge in your GBC and play the grey version. There is no additional charge to use the BC feature.
Can I imagine a world where there is a new Switch 2 exclusive version of Zelda TotK, AND the system plays the original using BC? Absolutely!
Almost every gen that Nintendo had the opportunity to do so, they offered physical BC, ie GC to Wii, Wii to Wii U, GB to GBC to GBA to DS. It so happens that Switch uses a different form factor, architecture AND media than Wii U, which also sold like shit, so yeah, this time the closest thing we had to BC was just dumping Switch ports everywhere, but that's still not charging for BC, it's just releasing a game on a different platform.
StereoVsn
Member
That’s a big concern for the Switch though, physical BC.
LavitzSlambert
Member
I agree there isn't enough room in the handheld form factor to rely on a hardware based solution. Even if if it, they aren't going to power an additional chipset. But just because they are the same CPU architecture doesn't mean there can't be a substantial boost in power. Nintendo used an old Tegra (2015) for the Switch in 2017 and launched it at $299, and they haven't done a true spec bump in 7 years. The X1+ was faster but Nintendo undervolted and we saw the benefits of battery life as opposed to meager gains to performance (which most games would not have utilized anyway). Furthermore, Nintendo's plans for this device have been set in stone for a while now. The only real contender for hardware is the rumored T239 which is supposed to be running an A78, which is fully BC with the A57 in the current Switch. So we are talking a new CPU that can be taken full advantage of, with no performance hit due to BC.
On the GPU side, the architecture change from Maxwell to Ampere does change things and needs to be accounted for. Where you are wrong is saying that 100% BC = lower performance increase between Switch and Switch 2 than if they didn't need to bother with BC. Nintendo was going forward with this solution regardless of BC, that is how modern development has trended. They are not sacrificing anything in terms of new console power or capabilities. They are releasing an iterative console (like every other platform) with 7 years of tech improvements, AND it will be powerful enough to support BC.
ComputerBlue
Member
Will the BC be digital only, or can we use our cartridges, that’s what I wanna know.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Ultimately I am down for both options regardless
It isn't though because the original/post point I was making is Nintendo has a (recent)history of such practices and overcharges to boot.. so I am hopeful this business practice doesn't repeat in the next generation.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
There are plenty of Switch games I'd buy to play on Switch 2 with better performance and image quality.
Nintendo could easily re-advertise some of those games too.
Nintendo could easily re-advertise some of those games too.
cireza
Member
So you acknowledge that back then they made a disappointing choice with already deprecated hardware, but are expecting them to not do it again with Switch 2 ?
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Was there any better chip on the market at the time? Why call it disappointing?
cireza
Member
That's not me, but the reception from the public back then when it was confirmed that it was a Tegra 1 inside the Switch.
dragonyeuw
Member
I've been talking to you expressively, specifically, and exclusively about TLOU2 and you paying $10 to access the PS5 version when the PS4 version you already own is available free on PS5. Distinguishing the two versions as far as what was free to you and what was an optional paid upgrade and the conditions there-in is a simple statement of fact and the only thing I quoted and addressed to you.
With that said, since you keep bringing up Nintendo when I wasn't referring to them at any point in my prior comments to you, now I will turn my attention to that.
The reason the WIi U versions of games weren't playable on Switch as BC should be fairly self-explanatory. The Wii U account system and the current Nintendo account are two different infrastructures. If you owned a digital copy of for example Mario Kart 8 on Wii U, the Switch account system doesn't know you owned that previously so there is no way to track that purchase and allow you to play the Switch version for free, with a fee, or otherwise. The Wii U also used discs, so physical BC is impossible unless there is some way to shove your Wii U disc into the Switch cart port. Finally, two different CPU architectures.
The Switch, by comparison, will be moving the account system to Switch 2. Nintendo has already confirmed this. So they can track your digital purchases. Nintendo is also sticking with cartridge so one of two things will likely happen: 1) the new cart slot will be compatible with both the Switch 1 and Switch 2 carts or 2) they will have two cart slots as they did for something like the DS lite, which had a GBA slot on the bottom and DS slot on top. Now will they charge you something or just allow you to access freely? It remains to be seen but it has nothing to do with how Nintendo handled the Wii U to Switch transition. They aren't even remotely comparable situations.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If it's backwards compatibility, it shouldn't have a fee.
If they're re-selling you the same games again for money, then that's not backwards compatibility with software you already own.