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Shin Megami Tensei IV Review Thread

Is the story/characters in the same level as P3/P4?

No, it's much more of a dungeon crawler; it has almost no social sim elements. The reviews address this, if you don't mind going and reading them.

It still does not change the fact the series is taking a step back with a smaller budget.

We are all happy we are getting another mainline SMT and it is being released in the west, but the series is retreating.

Sounds like the gameplay got some nice upgrades. I don't care about anything else.
 

Goby

Banned
Oh man he had to bring up social links :(

Man ATLUS should just stamp every other game with a "No social links here" sticker

I guess all this mess if really ATLUS USA's fault since they went crazy with slapping Shin Megami Tensai on every title
 

Yawnier

Banned
This game wasn't even on my radar at all until that $30 credit deal was announced yesterday, but I think I will pick it up next week or the week after since it is too good of a deal to ignore and I already own FE.
 

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
Is the story/characters in the same level as P3/P4?

a38Rpcr.jpg



Mainline SMT has a very different focus than Persona. It's more about the dungeon crawling than the plot, I'll say it this way. The characters are more like ciphers that eventually get to show their true personalities later on, rather than being heavy on the plot.
 

SteeloDMZ

Banned
Certainly the SMT franchise hasn't been immune to RPG trends of the past decade. Heck, the past few Persona titles have embraced them while elevating those clichés to a higher level. But with SMT IV, I feel like Atlus' designers are pushing back, skewering the decline of a medium while reminding us how great it can be when done right. It's a masterpiece of a game that takes a strong stride forward for the series while fixing its gaze determinedly on the past to remind us not to settle for anything less than excellence. It's a bold position to take, but one that I very much appreciate.

Dat Parish review. I remember when he made the Persona Retronauts episode and mentioned he hadn't played any SMT game. I'd assume it's one of his favorite series now.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Persona has raised the interest, but this isn't Persona. There's no guarantee that because someone likes Persona, they'll like SMT. As evidenced by this thread and every other SMT4 thread on this forum.

Fire Emblem apparently sold quite well, who knows we might see a revival yet.
 

Lissar

Reluctant Member
This game wasn't even on my radar at all until that $30 credit deal was announced yesterday, but I think I will pick it up next week or the week after since it is too good of a deal to ignore and I already own FE.

I'm glad the deal is making others buy it! Hopefully this will help move copies.

a38Rpcr.jpg



Mainline SMT has a very different focus than Persona. It's more about the dungeon crawling than the plot, I'll say it this way. The characters are more like ciphers that eventually get to show their true personalities later on, rather than being heavy on the plot.

No need to look so horrified! Probably going to happen a lot though. Really, we need to just accept that a lot of people are going to come into this expecting Persona. We need to ease them into the wonderful ways of mainline SMT.
 

Stoof

Member
Great reviews so far! I just started playing Persona 3 FES the other day as my first entry into the Megaten series and I'm loving it so far. I've been on the fence about trying out SMT IV for a while now but the new promotion makes it a really easy decision to grab it. I know Persona and mainline SMT games are different beasts but I'm really looking forward to playing this next week.
 
No need to look so horrified! Probably going to happen a lot though. Really, we need to just accept that a lot of people are going to come into this expecting Persona. We need to ease them into the wonderful ways of mainline SMT.

Basically, we need a FAQ.

Q: I liked Persona 3/4, will I like SMT4?

A: It depends. The story takes a backseat and the social simulations are gone, but the dungeon crawling mechanics are front and center, and justify their necessity for a whole game by allowing for greater customization and demanding more cleverness from the player.

Q: If I've never played an SMT or Persona game, is SMT4 a good place to start?

A: All signs point to yes! Lots of nice accessibility features will walk you through the experience.

Q: If I liked Nocturne, will I like SMT4?

A: Probably. There are a few changes here or there; read a few reviews.

Q: If I didn't like Nocturne, will I like SMT4?

A: That's a harder question to answer. The story looks a little more substantial, but it's not a huge shift in a more story-driven direction. The dungeons are a bit more forgiving and shorter, but it's still a dungeon crawler at heart. The portability and accessibility features might make the end result more palatable.

(and so on)
 

ctothej

Member
IGN will give it a 6 though.

Anyway still solid scores.

Hopefully this sells enough to to give ATLUS some money to not die.

I just don't get where this idea about IGN comes from. They bloat review scores for almost every game that has a shred of hype.
 

ASIS

Member
Can someone please explain to me what SMT is all about and how it relates to the Persona Series? (I honestly have no clue).

I want to get into this series, but I don't know where to start.
 

SteeloDMZ

Banned
Can someone please explain to me what SMT is all about and how it relates to the Persona Series? (I honestly have no clue).

I want to get into this series, but I don't know where to start.

Persona is a spin-off of the SMT series. The SMT series focuses on talking to demons, negotiating with them so they can join you in battle, exploring unique dungeons in a post-apocalyptic world, deciding what route will you take out of many possibilities, etc. And it's though as nails.
 

NeonZ

Member
Can someone please explain to me what SMT is all about and how it relates to the Persona Series? (I honestly have no clue).

I want to get into this series, but I don't know where to start.


This is basically a repost from the first page, with some extra information:

Megami Tensei was a game series, based on the Japanese novel series Digital Devil Story, that started in the NES and featured many mythological creatures, collectivelly called "demons", which the player could recruit to fight alongside them through negotiations during battles. It was basically the first 'monster' franchise, although with a dark story focusing on the battle against hell's forces, and later heaven and hell battling with humanity in the middle of an Earth ruined by the battle (with figures from various mythologies - basically every demon is taken straight out of some legend). The two NES titles were made by Namco, when Atlus rebooted and continued the series in the SNES, it was renamed "Shin Megami Tensei." SMT introduced a law-neutral-chaos axis, which defined the various endings according to which faction the protagonist sides with, heaven's law, the demon's chaos or neither, humanity's neutral.

There was a SMT title for the SNES called "SMT:If" that changed several of the conventions that the series had up to then. It took place in an alternative timeline from the first two SMT games, where the all out war between law and chaos never happened, not following up their story directly. Rather than siding with factions, you chose a character to team up with and that was what changed the storyline and ending. It also introduced a "Guardian Spirit" mechanic, involving associating demons with the hero to get different boosts. It also focused strictly on high school characters, while still keeping the demon system from the previous games.

SMT:If's new mechanics and ideas, rather than staying in future SMT titles, were eventually further developed when Atlus made the original Persona for the Playstation (which was still labeled as a "Megami" title in Japan, although its successors weren't), which continued the world featured in SMT:If and greatly expanded on the Guardian Spirit mechanic with the new "Personas", which replaced the recruitable demons. Spells, fusions and demon/persona designs still are often shared between Persona and the original SMT series, but the focus, structure and tone of the story is very different. The routine and social links only exist in Persona - which dropped demons as party members since the start, and later also dumped demon negotiation. Meanwhile, negotiations and recruiting demons is still a core part of mainline SMT, which also continued focusing on battles involving heavenly and demonic forces with humanity's future in the middle.
 

Watashiwa

Member
The first print run is limited edition. There is a chance it will drop to $39.99 once the game by itself ships.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Atlus looked at their fanbase and realized that they wouldn't lose many customers if they charged $50 for the game rather than standard $40. Given that they're going to have small physical printings and eShop presence they don't have to worry about not selling what they make.

It's a logical result of flexible pricing mechanisms: If you know your product's value to your customers, charge them for it.
 

Dural666

Neo Member
Near Fukuoka. I'll be visiting Tokyo this month though.

I've never been to Fukuoka. Unfortunately in Tokyo some good shops with US games like Game Hollywood closed. Your best bet would be Laox and the second floor from a Trader in Akihabara.

Don't get your hopes too high though, I lived in Tokyo the last three months and I had to import most US 3DS games from Play-Asia. Since the 3DS is region locked, the shops in Tokyo don't risk to stock too many US games.
 

Lissar

Reluctant Member
I've never been to Fukuoka. Unfortunately in Tokyo some good shops with US games like Game Hollywood closed. Your best bet would be Laox and the second floor from a Trader in Akihabara.

Don't get your hopes too high though, I lived in Tokyo the last three months and I had to import most US 3DS games from Play-Asia. Since the 3DS is region locked, the shops in Tokyo don't risk to stock too many US games.

I don't believe I ever saw any store that regularly carried US region games in the years that I lived in Fukuoka. Of course, it was in 2009 that I left, so things may have changed! The only time I saw anything was when I saw imported copies of Elite Beat Agents, since that game was significantly different from the domestic release.

And you're right, it's unlikely that many places are going to carry US region games due to region locking. It's hard enough to find them even without that in place.
 
Games Radar said:
The majority of SMTIV is so helpfully modernized that it makes it all the more frustrating when the game occasionally regresses. Most annoying is the overworld. It’s a dim map with an obtuse layout and a pronounced lack of detail, hardly all that different than the SMT maps players settled for on the PSOne. It’s far too easy to get lost for 20 minutes before finally stumbling upon your destination. The dungeons and indoor sections fare better than the map of Tokyo, but are still a little too drab, even though it fits the doomsday setting. SMTIV embraces its aesthetic with creative art design, it just gets a little oppressive after a few dozen hours.

This kind of complaint is the least relevant to me. In fact, it makes me more excited for the game. Not every game has to sacrifice the elements that tie it to the rest of its series just for the sake of adapting to current trends to seem modern. I'm glad SMTIV will feel like SMT.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Nocturne's characters are also flat. Only names I remember are Dante, Hikawa, and Lucifer.

Yeah, Nocturne's characters are less noteworthy for their personalities and more for what they represent. The idea of
killing your friends after they start becoming all evil and insistent on themselves is a pretty nifty thing.
 
Yeah, Nocturne's characters are less noteworthy for their personalities and more for what they represent. The idea of
killing your friends after they start becoming all evil and insistent on themselves is a pretty nifty thing.

That's standard megaten fair though. You do it SMT I, SMT II, SMT: SJ, and I'm 99% sure you do it SMT IV too.
 
Positive reviews make me happy. SMT IV is the best game I've played all year.

I didn't review it (had an import copy and the higher ups wanted to wait for the NA release), but Parish's review pretty much lines up with my thoughts on the game.

I think he nails what's so great about IV. People who are passing because the battles are 2D or because the game is on a portable? Well, I guess I just kind of feel bad that you can't enjoy IV to the same level I did. =/

Welcome back SMT. I missed you dearly.

As for characters and story, yes, I did find it all very interesting. SMT games are exceptionally well written, even though the style storytelling is often very different than other RPGs. There isn't really a direct line from point A to point B, and I can see some people being put off by that. The characters represent ideals and while they don't have the sort of character development you'd expect from a Persona game, they all play an important role in the narrative.

It also feels like your main character is getting sculpted by their presence, which is always neat.

I also find people complaining about the layout of the city map kind of puzzling considering it's... well, Tokyo. But hey, whatever.
 
I just can't deal with the resource recycling and the weak first person 2D battles in 2013. If you're going to do first person battles, at least have them be well animated like Dragon Quest.
 
I don't understand people warning Persona fans about SMT not being story heavy. It sure doesn't focus on 'plot', but it is full of interactions with NPCs. Personally, I found character stories more engrossing than main plot even in P3/4
 
What do those things have to do with the year?

I found it easier to forgive the limited first person battles of the SMT games I did play (even though they did grate on me by the end of the game), when the games seemed to at least partially be dealing with platform limitations and a transition to 3D. I bought the 3DS with this game partly in mind, but I can't reconcile my expectations for the 3DS and lazy animations of 1995 concept art. Hopefully V returns to the production values of III. Or at least well animated new visuals.
 
I can understand not liking the resource recycling and 2D art based on the higher price point, but in a vacuum I simply cannot understand why it's such a slight against the game. It looks fine and allows the game to have tons of content, if the reviews are any indication. Besides, the Nocturne art style had its own limitations and tradeoffs.

First person battles are just an art design choice and criticizing that makes even less sense to me.

EDIT: This game screams the opposite of "lazy" to me. It looks like they stuffed it full.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
I just can't deal with the resource recycling and the weak first person 2D battles in 2013. If you're going to do first person battles, at least have them be well animated like Dragon Quest.

In Jeremy Parish's review he raises an interesting notion that economic forces affecting the Japanese games industry have resulted in many JRPG developers opt to ratchet down their emphasis on graphical detail and polish. So while it may seem odd that a 2013 game is looking like Wizardry after it was a fully 3D game in the PS2 era, this is one explanation.
 
Well, my impression is that it looks bad. But I'm well aware that I'm an outlier when it comes to ATLUS games.

What looks bad about it?

I think it looks very good when there's a lot of enemies on the screen. I'd prefer a huge amount of 2D sprites to Nocturne's limited low-poly 3D models. But I've always been a "gameplay trumps all" sort of guy.
 

Rhodan

Neo Member
Question, I'm in Japan with a NA 3DS, where's the best place for me to order this from?

I'm in Australia with a US one and just buy everything from the estore.

If you don't have a US credit card though you'll need to buy digital copies of the prepaid estore cards from a site like play-asia
 
In Jeremy Parish's review he raises an interesting notion that economic forces affecting the Japanese games industry have resulted in many JRPG developers opt to ratchet down their emphasis on graphical detail and polish. So while it may seem odd that a 2013 game is looking like Wizardry after it was a fully 3D game in the PS2 era, this is one explanation.

Wouldn't the fact that the 3DS only requires PS2 level graphics negate that?
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Wouldn't the fact that the 3DS only requires PS2 level graphics negate that?

I think JParish is suggesting that the economic situation for these games is even worse than in the PS2 era.

According to garaph's media create archive, SMT3 LTD was 245,520 whereas SMT:SJ was 136,149, so for 4 they may have scaled their expectations downward.

For some reason I couldn't find SMT4 on there, but SMT4 sales for the first week in Japan were 188,562, which seems pretty decent.

EDIT: Last Media Create had SMT4 at 245.568 so that's a pretty big success.
 
I think JParish is suggesting that the economic situation for these games is even worse than in the PS2 era.

According to garaph's media create archive, SMT3 LTD was 245,520 whereas SMT:SJ was 136,149, so for 4 they may have scaled their expectations downward.

For some reason I couldn't find SMT4 on there, but SMT4 sales for the first week in Japan were 188,562, which seems pretty decent.

SMT IV - 245.568 as of June 23rd.
 
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