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[Y2Kev]

The boss of F was way harder than the boss of E for me. Damn nonreflectable shit.

 

[HK-47]

Magic is good but be careful. Don't dump all your point into only one. Skills you will crack will require certains stats to be equipped. If I remember well multi target spell required agility or another stat on top of magic to be able to equip them.

EDIT: A good number of passive abilities requires STR and VI. For Example, the ''element Rise'' passive skills required STR too I think.

Yes, as do the almighty spells and the phys resist skills as i recall.

 

[Error]

It's random. You don't know that a demon has the skill until it uses the skill, or until you've fought it enough times that you can analyze its skills. Until that happens, there's no reasonable way to anticipate or deal with those abilities.

Even when you know that it could happen, every option you have for dealing with it is a poorer choice than just hoping it doesn't hit you. You don't know what enemies you'll be fighting in your next random encounter, so (for a large part of the game) there's no reason to equip armour that defends against Death. The opportunity cost of wearing it is higher than the benefits it gives over using more general protection: In other words, you'll gain more progress by being resistant to the physical attacks that nearly every enemy uses than you'll lose by occasionally eating a Mudo. Since you can't spend a turn to change your armour, apart from scripted/boss fights, there is never a smart time to be wearing Death-resistant armour, unless it also happens to have resistances for Physical, or whichever other non-random element is common to the current area.
Running away is similar, in that doing it repeatedly will in all likelihood result in more deaths from the experience deficiency, or at the very least more time wasted having to go back and get that experience back by fighting more enemies, than you're likely to lose to Mudo - plus, I don't imagine that running away is guaranteed to work anyway, so it's not even foolproof.
And, obviously, surprise attacks.


It's the definition of poor design. It ends the game not because the player made a poor choice, but because a random number generator said so. There are several very common scenarios where the player cannot in any way anticipate that it's coming. And when the player can anticipate that it's coming, in nearly every case, it's either too late for the player to make the relevant choice, the choice to avoid the random chance of dying to Mudo is more disadvantageous to the player, or both.

And yeah, Mudo or no Mudo, the random battles do not get even a mote more or less difficult. The only difference is that every 50 or 100 times you hit Auto-Battle on an easy fight, you'll be dead in three seconds instead of the enemy - which in all likelihood wouldn't have changed had you taken manual control and fought the battle yourself, because it's a shallow combat system, and Mudo operates on dice rolls rather than anything that the player does.

I don't see how that's bad game design, not knowing what to expect is that what makes SMT fun. If you knew beforehand what you are dealing with, a lot of the tension of getting through a dungeon alive gets lost.

I swear people these days are fucking spoiled.

this game has the decency to actually let you know what skill each demon has after awhile, old SMT games told you fuck all and you had to man up and deal with it.

 

[NichM]

(Is it supposed to be RaSuTa candy since it's rakukaja + sukukaja + tarukaja)

That makes so much sense and it never occurred to me. Oh well, it wouldn't have worked in English anyway.

 

[HK-47]

Shouldnt it have been Heat Riser, like it was in P4?

 

[tetrisgrammaton]

It's easier compared to other SMT games but it's still not that easy if you're new to this series. The boss battles are definitely still challenging but I think there's a lot less frequency of bosses/mid-bosses compared to other SMT games I've played. The difficulty of the random encounters do ramp up towards the end to more typical SMT levels but it's only a small part of the game.

I don't think you'll be disappointed at the difficulty unless you're already a SMT veteran and expect a very challenging game.

its just i'm currently on floor 23 of etrian odyssey, and was thinking about moving over to this after wrapping it up.

i'm not uber experienced at smt games but i thought nocturne's difficulty was overall just right.

 

[HK-47]

I don't see how that's bad game design, not knowing what to expect is that what makes SMT fun. If you knew beforehand what you are dealing with, a lot of the tension of getting through a dungeon alive gets lost.

I swear people these days are fucking spoiled.

this game has the decency to actually let you know what skill each demon has after awhile, old SMT games told you fuck all and you had to man up and deal with it.

Ok so I may have started this whole thing, but I think its time to end it since it really isnt an issue in SJ (due to the ease of the random fights). Also I see we are whipping out dumb "back in the old days real men played games" crap too.

Yeah we should move onto other things at this point.

 

[NichM]

Shouldnt it have been Heat Riser, like it was in P4?

They accomplish the same thing but didn't have the same names in Japanese (ヒートライザ vs. ラスタキャンデ&#12451 so we didn't want to translate two (technically) different skills into the same English name.

 

[Error]

Ok so I may have started this whole thing, but I think its time to end it since it really isnt an issue in SJ (due to the ease of the random fights). Also I see we are whipping out dumb "back in the old days real men played games" crap too.

Yeah we should move onto other things at this point.

I think it's completely retarded to complain about the game not letting you know right away what skills a demon has, and making it seem like a game flaw.

It's VERY rare for an rpg to give the player so much information on enemies without wasting turns using items or shit. then when a game gives out info little by little instead of right away (and once you fully get all the info, it stays for the rest of the game), it's bad design. Not to mention the info is handily available at any time during battles.

And you aren't the most adequate person to point out dumb posts or replies here, considering your posts in the last couple of pages.

 

[cress2000]

That makes so much sense and it never occurred to me. Oh well, it wouldn't have worked in English anyway.

Kaja Candy, perhaps?

 

[Vamphuntr]

They accomplish the same thing but didn't have the same names in Japanese (ヒートライザ vs. ラスタキャンデ&#12451 so we didn't want to translate two (technically) different skills into the same English name.

I think Heat riser is only on one character while Luster Candy is on the whole party.

 

[Totakeke]

its just i'm currently on floor 23 of etrian odyssey, and was thinking about moving over to this after wrapping it up.

i'm not uber experienced at smt games but i thought nocturne's difficulty was overall just right.

If you're playing EO and already played Nocturne, then this should feel a bit easier for you. It won't be so easy that it's repulsive though, it's just that you won't have any danger of dying most of the time like in those games. It's still fun, the story still has certain intrigue and the demon fusion system is nice to mess with as always.

 

[C-Jo]

Maybe because it's a boss ally. He will always appear as ??? even if he is 100% analyzed. I've been grinding for hours in Sector H and Hamaon always hit when the ennemy is weak against it. Maybe I am extremly lucky I also use Herald Victor for casting this, not very good Ma stat and no hama boost or whatever.

Ah yeah, you're probably right there. Thinking back, he did appear as ??? despite being fully analyzed. Forget I said anything. :lol

 

[HK-47]

I think it's completely retarded to complain about the game not letting you know right away what skills a demon has, and making it seem like a game flaw.

It's VERY rare for an rpg to give the player so much information on enemies without wasting turns using items or shit. then when a game gives out info little by little instead of right away (and once you fully get all the info, it stays for the rest of the game), it's bad design. Not to mention the info is handily available at any time during battles.

And you aren't the most adequate person to point out dumb posts or replies here, considering your posts in the last couple of pages.

Nothing wrong with not knowing enemy skills. That wasnt even something I was talking about. And I dont think my posts are particularly dumb or misplaced consider this is a regular discussion with supporters on both sides and a fair amount of intelligent discourse. I'm not the one backing up opinions with appeals to tradition. As has been pointed out, the series itself has been experimenting with downplaying or completely removing insta death to no ill effect.

It not like I'm proclaiming SMT is a horrible series because of this, though it seems to be taken that way by some.

 

[HK-47]

I think Heat riser is only on one character while Luster Candy is on the whole party.

Ah yeah thats true.

 

[NichM]

Kaja Candy, perhaps?

Might have worked. But consider this: when you buff something enough, it gains a certain... luster. Eh? Eh?

 

[xs_mini_neo]

WTF? Did I insult you or something? The only reason I bother is cause this is a series I actually like. I mean I know LTTP thread foster criticism better than Official Threads, but still...

What do you mean WTF? You insulted something I like, therefore you insulted me! We all know that's how it works.

 

[HK-47]

What do you mean WTF? You insulted something I like, therefore you insulted me! We all know that's how it works.

Uh huh, ok.

 

[xs_mini_neo]

Uh huh, ok.

Oh, you want to argue instead?

 

[cress2000]

Might have worked. But consider this: when you buff something enough, it gains a certain... luster. Eh? Eh?

Haha, clever.

 

[HK-47]

Oh, you want to argue instead?

Whatever man. I dont care either way.

 

[Cep]

What do you mean WTF? You insulted something I like, therefore you insulted me! We all know that's how it works.

:lol

 

[xs_mini_neo]

Whatever man. I dont care either way.

Btw, I didn't intend to single you out. There is another....two or three here who should be devoured.

I also didn't realize that I wasn't really in the mood to argue. I have posting remorse.

 

[tetrisgrammaton]

If you're playing EO and already played Nocturne, then this should feel a bit easier for you. It won't be so easy that it's repulsive though, it's just that you won't have any danger of dying most of the time like in those games. It's still fun, the story still has certain intrigue and the demon fusion system is nice to mess with as always.

hmm still not liking the sound of it. am thinking of going the DDS route instead

 

[MechaX]

The boss of F was way harder than the boss of E for me. Damn nonreflectable shit.

Personally, I found the Boss of F pretty simple, especially compared to the hell the boss of E put me through. At least Fornax's boss has a pretty common elemental weakness and never casts Dekaja (you can obtain Luster Candy from a few demon sources at that point). But it definitely seems like the attack and magic barriers are absolutely useless at this point due to unblockable attacks.

 

[Manaka]

Arrgh, all of a sudden, after the Fornax boss fight (back in the HQ) I noticed my alignment changen to law, now, I'm 100 percent I picked the neutral answer- one of the other answers back in the HQ must have been alignment changing...(spoiler obviously for people who aren't that far yet)

Spoiler

To Asura's question I answered "It's the demons' fault" - the neutral choice.
There were a few options to pick to some questions in the Red Sprite, but I thought they were unrelated to the alignment, like if nuking the Schwarzwelt would be a good idea and stuff like that, hmmm...

Now I'm law and all my demons except good old Doppelganger are neutral, meh :/

 

[noonche]

Ok the fight with

Spoiler

Captain Jack

is kicking my ass. Anyone have any recommendations? Doesn't seem to have any weaknesses, and I couldn't get mute, charm or poison to stick. Plus always with the healing.

 

[MechaX]

Ok the fight with

Spoiler

Captain Jack

is kicking my ass. Anyone have any recommendations? Doesn't seem to have any weaknesses, and I couldn't get mute, charm or poison to stick. Plus always with the healing.

Buff the hell out of your party with Luster Candy (he doesn't have Dekaja, he only has Dekunda) and do not have the MC weak against gun attacks. Besides that, it's a crap shoot battle, as you can only hope he doesn't spam that full-heal ability too often.

 

[Baloonatic]

Grus was fun to navigate, boss is giving me trouble though. My demons suck apart from Alice.

 

[Akuun]

Anyway, I am currently playing Devil Survivor. Any advice for setting up my stats in that one? I am thinking that I should just dump most of it in one stat, just for giggles.

I am thinking probably magic.

Magic is effective but as already mentioned, make sure to get something in the other stats too or else you lock out certain skills for yourself.

Physical is also a viable option because I've found it's easier to turn the MC into a powerful physical attacker than letting one of your physical-based party members handle that end of things.

On the other hand, letting party members handle the magic stuff is quite easy, as plenty of characters naturally stat themselves towards it.

 

[noonche]

Buff the hell out of your party with Luster Candy (he doesn't have Dekaja, he only has Dekunda) and do not have the MC weak against gun attacks. Besides that, it's a crap shoot battle, as you can only hope he doesn't spam that full-heal ability too often.

Is there an easy to acquire demon that has luster candy?

 

[Tarazet]

Does every copy of this game have the box/soundtrack?

 

[Dresden]

Does every copy of this game have the box/soundtrack?

Think so.

The CD is messed up, though, but Atlus has been sending out free replacements.

 

[Yaweee]

Does every copy of this game have the box/soundtrack?

Seems that way. I got mine through Amazon and it had it, and as far as I know other DS games Atlus has packaged with a CD have been "every copy" sort of deals. It might change if the game goes into a reprint, though (like Nocturne).

 

[Tarazet]

Think so.

The CD is messed up, though, but Atlus has been sending out free replacements.

Interesting. I wonder if the initial run with the messed up CD might have collector's value.

 

[charlequin]

Might have worked. But consider this: when you buff something enough, it gains a certain... luster. Eh? Eh?

It didn't bother me before the pun was pointed out. It's not like something like "Sukukaja" is a descriptive name anyway. :lol

 

[Dresden]

Interesting. I wonder if the initial run with the messed up CD might have collector's value.

Huh, I never thought about that. I should go seal up the box...:lol

 

[Freyjadour]

This game is jawesome. It's exactly what I wanted in a new first person smt as well. My only grievance so far are the core battle system mechanics. Other SMT battle systems pale to Press Turn and One More, so going back to vanilla turn based SMT is kinda

I like alignment assist. It's not as good as Press Turn, but it doesn't totally screw you over like Press Turn as well. :lol

 

[Cep]

I like alignment assist. It's not as good as Press Turn, but it doesn't totally screw you over like Press Turn as well. :lol

I like AA as well, I just think that it is a little too basic.

The system functions, but it is begging for another layer to be placed onto it.

 

[Lafiel]

I like alignment assist. It's not as good as Press Turn, but it doesn't totally screw you over like Press Turn as well. :lol

That's what i'm missing with press turn. There's not as much tension with the new system.

 

[HK-47]

That's what i'm missing with press turn. There's not as much tension with the new system.

Its why the game is relatively easy unless they stack the odds against you like with

Spoiler

Ouroboros

.

 

[Y2Kev]

I think my opinion of the game might be declining as I get towards the end. I feel like Sector G is lazy.

 

[Freyjadour]

Press turn is completely fair and balanced too. My favorite turn based system. But I guess I could see why they didn't use it in this game. They have been using press turn like systems ever since SMT3 with the exception of titles like Raidou and Devil Survivor. But I still kinda miss it. Oh well!

Granted .

That's what i'm missing with press turn. There's not as much tension with the new system.

No doubt. Press Turn is a love hate affair for me though, it has REALLY pissed me off before, but I guess that's the appeal of it eh?

 

[Freyjadour]

I think my opinion of the game might be declining as I get towards the end. I feel like Sector G is lazy.

How far in are you? I felt like once you went below 1F it was less lazy and more confusing.

 

[semiconscious]

I think my opinion of the game might be declining as I get towards the end. I feel like Sector G is lazy.

i just hit the final sector (& the point of no return, alignment-wise), & i'm writing off any negative feelings toward the game to combat fatigue - this's as dense an rpg, dungeon-wise, as i've played since etrain odyssey (which also wore me out - i didn't get around to doing the last 5 levels till a year after i'd played thru the rest). i think part of my exhaustion's also based on the 300 demon thing - in some ways, it's really almost 100 too many (i've only completed 40% of the compendium) - it makes for lots of variety, enemy-wise, but kinda over-whelming when it comes to putting a party together (i think including a devil survivor style compendium might've made it all more manageable)...

 

[MechaX]

I think my opinion of the game might be declining as I get towards the end. I feel like Sector G is lazy.

The last couple sectors are pretty lazy as a whole (same music, starting to rely on Mega Man boss roulettes, palette-swap dungeons). At least a portion of Sector H has new music for a change.

But yeah, the end of the game is finally insight. Just one more massive fetch-quest and a dungeon to go (hopefully). The only thing that worries me is that I managed to get through the last two dungeons perfectly fine and my MC is at level 60. From what I've gathered, the final boss requires parties in the mid 80s. So I have two questions for anyone who can answer:

1. Is it better to go for mono-aligned teams or just go for a variety of demons?
2. How should I go about accumulating exp in a reasonable time-frame?

PS: These password demons are fucking expensive. Buying

Spoiler

Alice

set me back around 80k macca.

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

1. Is it better to go for mono-aligned teams or just go for a variety of demons?

Well, I'm not sure how much you read/heard about the last boss, but I will tell you flat out that she has a skill that

Spoiler

sends back all of your demons that are of a certain alignment to your Demonica, so if you have a mono-aligned team your MC will be left standing alone.

I ended up taking a chance and going for it with a completely neutral party, and the ONLY REASON why I didn't get my ass kicked is because I had a Titania with Mediarahan and would ALWAYS get to move first. So I was able to have her cast any healing while my MC would summon out the rest of the team.

That's definitely not the best way to go about it even though it worked out for me. If you can put together a nice ass mixed team, then you'll be a lot better off, I'm sure.

 

[Dresden]

I played this while eating dinner at a Japanese restaurant, and people would give me weird looks as they passed by. I guess I looked sad, sitting at a table by myself? I didn't want to cook, so... oh well. :lol

I'm definitely going to start looking for uber pokemons online. I'm tired of fusing. Fusing fatigue.

 

[HK-47]

I played this while eating dinner at a Japanese restaurant, and people would give me weird looks as they passed by. I guess I looked sad, sitting at a table by myself? I didn't want to cook, so... oh well. :lol

I'm definitely going to start looking for uber pokemons online. I'm tired of fusing. Fusing fatigue.

Fuse your ass to a chair and shut up. You will fuse and you will like it!!!!!!!11111one

 

[C-Jo]

I'm definitely going to start looking for uber pokemons online. I'm tired of fusing. Fusing fatigue.

I feel like Atlus is really missing out on a chance for something more Pokemon-esque. I know that market is pretty well cornered, but even a barebones versus mode would've been pretty ballin.

And no, I don't mean Devil Children.