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[Pureauthor]

I'm having a lot of fun with SJ, but many of the complaints are valid.

Also, teleporters all over the place without giving me the chance to make my own map for the teleporters is completely bullshit.

If we're going to be frank, I'd pick a theoretical Devil Survivor 2 over a new SJ game like this, unless they shook things up a bit more.

 

[Kishgal]

If we're going to be frank, I'd pick a theoretical Devil Survivor 2 over a new SJ game like this, unless they shook things up a bit more.

Fortunately, we can have both, since there is very little staff overlap between the two! And Devil Survivor can keep the Growlanser team busy.

 

[Archurro]

Anyone know how rare this game is becoming? I want this game, but don't want to pay $35 for it, though I'm afraid it'll be like Devil Survivor where the only place where you can get it is online for the original retail price of $30. And on the Goozex list, no one has traded it yet.

 

[charlequin]

I look at Strange Journey as a throwback to classic Megaten, and in that respect, I have a hard time seeing it as anything but a success. First person dungeon crawling, alignment system, demon negotiation, 300 demons... It's not really missing anything.

Yup. This is pretty standard in GAF RPG threads over the last few years though -- games with dungeon-crawling gameplay don't manage to do too well in the overall GAF consensus pretty much regardless of their actual quality.

If we're going to be frank, I'd pick a theoretical Devil Survivor 2 over a new SJ game like this, unless they shook things up a bit more.

Broadly speaking the formula for Devil Survivor is more repeatable than the formula for this game, so certainly I'd be more interested in another sequel to the former just at the moment because it'll be much easier to distinguish and improve it from its predecessor.

As an aside, I think it's kind of hilarious that people have picked this thread to suddenly agree with me about all the things I've been saying for a while now were great about Devil Survivor, a game that nonetheless had much worse glaring flaws than SJ does. :lol

 

[Freyjadour]

I don't know what that proves, though, not having played Persona PSP. Again, the complaints in that review are also about boring dungeon crawling, dated mechanics, and the like, not lack of Social Links.

Well, considering the previously mentioned glowing blue line pointing to your destination, I don't think Dead Space was trying to hide it's linearity at all, and if it was, well, it sure was doing a piss poor job of it.

You're probably correct, here, and it may just be that it's just too much of a throwback for some even while that style is a welcome return for others.

All it proves is that GS isn't interested in true SMT. The "no social links" thing is of course a joke, but is a good way of poking fun at them for wanting/seeming to want more of Persona 3/4 and none of what a lot of us love about SMT.

 

[Pureauthor]

As an aside, I think it's kind of hilarious that people have picked this thread to suddenly agree with me about all the things I've been saying for a while now were great about Devil Survivor, a game that nonetheless had much worse glaring flaws than SJ does. :lol

Would one of those 'great' things include a far stronger narrative than other SMTs which allowed for choosing of alignment? Because that's one of the things I'll give Devil Survivor kudos on.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Would one of those 'great' things include a far stronger narrative than other SMTs which allowed for choosing of alignment? Because that's one of the things I'll give Devil Survivor kudos on.

Indeed. Devil Survivor was really well done on the ''alignment'' choice. They were well fleshed out. Characters were also well blended into them. All of them were also directly aimed at solving the problem at end. The atmosphere was really creepy and oppressive from the start. As the days goes on the population become crazier and creepier. The only thing I didn't like in it was the demon auction system. I cleared the game 3 times (

Spoiler

Naoya, Gin and Yuzu

paths)). I don't think I will replay SJ for a while though.

I still love SJ a lot. It's a good SMT game. Like C-Jo said, it's an hommage to SFC SMT games. I think the fact that GS also gave a bad score to Persona PSP seems to confirm what we proposed yesterday. They don't like dungeon crawler much. Would be interesting if Atlus rerelease Persona 2 EP and IS on PSP to see their scores. SMT is promoted by Atlus USA like the final fantasy brand. Where SE slaps Final Fantasy on everything that contains chocobos and moogles, Atlus does the same with every games with demons, meguro's music or kaneko artworks. It's somewhat misleading for new fans. Digital Devil Saga, Personas and Devil Survivor are not really the same gameplay wise and story wise.

Yesterday I was saying that they poorly reviewed it because they expected a P4 or Devil Survivor instead. Someone said that I was referring to the s. links which is not the case. Dungeons in the recent Persona (3 and 4) are not really challenging to navigate. You can exit at anytime buy using an item you can buy in stores. You only manage the persona of one character the rest of the gang having the same personas through the game. When a boss spam at their weakness, you simply switch them out for another member. The narrative is pretty strong (especially P4) and a lot of the plot revolves around the characters. You can buy new weapons/armors from store as the plot advances.

In Persona 1 you have the first person maze with one way doors, pitfalls and so on. You have to manage the personas for the 5 characters in your party. Demon Negotiation is in to get spell cards. When you are owned by a boss well you have to try to fuse personas and get more spell cards for the whole team. It's possible to choose different party members at the beginning. You can talk to your characters when you enter stores or some areas. The story is a bit weak, but at least it's there the whole time. You can also buy weapons/armors from store as the plot advance.

For SJ, it's kinda like persona 1 but with some twist. Dungeon are much more complicated. Your main character doesn't have much skills, only the ones granted by guns. To get new armors, weapons and items, you need to get forma from ennemies or from dungeons. Some are rare drops or rare spawn on the field. If you get whacked by a boss, you have to start fusing demons which mean your whole team must be reoorganized. You are forced to use demon negotiation a lot. If you don't know the demon personality you will fail a lot and it can be frustrating. By itself your main character is not that useful. SJ also has a lot of special fusion types which can be overwhelming for new players. The plot is minimal. The intro is extremly well done (IMO) but then it's like SMT 1. Clearing dungeons really doesn't add much to the plot. It's an extremly good games but if you are someone thinking oooooooh SMT means it will be like Persona 3/4 then you will be disappointed.

 

[charlequin]

Would one of those 'great' things include a far stronger narrative than other SMTs which allowed for choosing of alignment? Because that's one of the things I'll give Devil Survivor kudos on.

Yes, precisely. Nocturne and Devil Survivor have the best narratives in the "core-ish" Megaten series because they give you several distinct and different alignments to choose from (rather than two opposing extremes and neutral); Devil Survivor improves on Nocturne in terms of the overall narrative because you get much more opportunity to get to know the characters who represent the different alignments and therefore you can make the choice in a much more "role-playing" fashion, based on how you actually respond to the personalities and arguments of the characters.

I'm definitely hoping that whatever the next Megaten game is follows up pretty closely on Devil Survivor in both its fusion system and narrative alignment structure.

 

[Akuun]

I like this game, but damn if it doesn't drag sometimes. I'm so tired of Carina and its

Spoiler

goddamn dark corridors

. I'm fairly certain I'm almost done this sector, but apparently the game wants me to map out this ridiculously large area just before I leave.

I've been making choices naturally, and am still Neutral so far. Which kind of sucks because I have a few Law-aligned summons that seem really cool. :lol

 

[Cep]

Nocturne and Devil Survivor have the best narratives in the "core-ish" Megaten series

Why did no one mention this before? Had I known this ti be the case, I would have skipped SJ.

Which one has the 'best' combat?

I hear good things about Nocturne, but I have been watching DDS vids on youtube, and it is honest to goodness the only SMT game that has grabbed my attention from combat alone (also, how is the writing in that one?).

 

[Y2Kev]

I think the fact that GS also gave a bad score to Persona PSP seems to confirm what we proposed yesterday.

I dunno. The 5 for Persona PSP confirms that Gamespot is generous!

 

[Kishgal]

Why did no one mention this before? Had I known this ti be the case, I would have skipped SJ.

Which one has the 'best' combat?

I hear good things about Nocturne, but I have been watching DDS vids on youtube, and it is honest to goodness the only SMT game that has grabbed my attention from combat alone (also, how is the writing in that one?).

Nocturne and the DDS games share the same Press Turn combat system. They're the only games to use it, unfortunately, as it's my favorite as well.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Why did no one mention this before? Had I known this ti be the case, I would have skipped SJ.

Which one has the 'best' combat?

I hear good things about Nocturne, but I have been watching DDS vids on youtube, and it is honest to goodness the only SMT game that has grabbed my attention from combat alone (also, how is the writing in that one?).

Pretty sure we've talked about Nocturne before.

 

[Freyjadour]

Why did no one mention this before? Had I known this ti be the case, I would have skipped SJ.

Which one has the 'best' combat?

I hear good things about Nocturne, but I have been watching DDS vids on youtube, and it is honest to goodness the only SMT game that has grabbed my attention from combat alone (also, how is the writing in that one?).

Because it is much more rewarding to be able to come into Nocturne having previous experience with the series and be appreciative of just how good the game was. Granted, the combat isn't all that different, and if you don't like what you are given here you should probably just look for another series.

DDS is pretty much the same except you have a Demon that sticks with you at all times kind of like if Persona 3 didn't let the MC change demons and you could control everyone. Magatama are present like in Nocturne, and honestly it's not that different a game gameplay wise.

Honestly, I find it difficult to see how someone would, on a gameplay level, like Nocturne and not like Strange Journey or other entries in the MegaTen metaseries. It is more or less the same gameplay with varying tweaks.

 

[C-Jo]

In Persona 1 you have the first person maze with one way doors, pitfalls and so on. You have to manage the personas for the 5 characters in your party. Demon Negotiation is in to get spell cards. When you are owned by a boss well you have to try to fuse personas and get more spell cards for the whole team. It's possible to choose different party members at the beginning. You can talk to your characters when you enter stores or some areas. The story is a bit weak, but at least it's there the whole time. You can also buy weapons/armors from store as the plot advance.

It's funny, when you describe it like that, it totally sounds like something I'd love. Unfortunately, I just couldn't get into it at all. I didn't play it on PS1 and I guess it's pretty tough to jump into something 15 years later without any existing feelings of nostalgia.

As for Devil Survivor, I don't normally play SRPGs and the combat wasn't any fun for me so I gave up after 8 hours or so. But if the narrative is really that good, I may have to give it a second chance.

 

[Lafiel]

Well, damn. No words

http://www.gamespot.com/ds/rpg/shinmegamitenseistrangejourney/review.html

6.0

I'm surprised by that review, i usually don't like first-person rpgs at all. (except for wizardry 8) but i'm finding this game to be completely engrossing.
GS have been so harsh on my two current favorite DS games. First infinite space 6.5 and now this.;_;

 

[MechaX]

Honestly, I find it difficult to see how someone would, on a gameplay level, like Nocturne and not like Strange Journey or other entries in the MegaTen metaseries. It is more or less the same gameplay with varying tweaks.

But that's the thing; those varying tweaks can profoundly alter the experiences of SJ and Nocturne to some people. Perhaps some one would gravitate more towards Nocturne's approach of building a main character from the ground up as opposed to the rather limited and automatic way that the main progresses in SJ. Perhaps some one likes the Press Turn system better than Demon Co-Op with Monoalignment teams. These seemingly minor differences can completely alter one's experience when combined with stuff like dungeon structure (Some people like SJ's no-nonsense approach to dungeon crawling, others like Nocturne's approach of gradual difficulty in its crawling).

Outside of gameplay, I'm seeing the story and how its paced being the breaking factor for SJ. Most who are not liking the game that much are simply losing interest, and I definitely don't blame them. Sure, Nocturne can get pretty slow at times as well, but it at least tries to suck you in by gradually emphasizing the rise (and fall) of these different alignments in this alien world. Plus, you actually get to see these characters gradually suffer and change into believing their respective alignments. In SJ's case, the twists don't even occur until the last fourth of the game and the alignments really just kind of "come up" with a single major event about 20-30 minutes away from each other. It's easier to acclimate to this if you like dungeon crawling for its own sake, but it serves as a pretty big obstacle if you're looking for the story to give you that extra "push" you need to play through it.

 

[C-Jo]

It's easier to acclimate to this if you like dungeon crawling for its own sake, but it serves as a pretty big obstacle if you're looking for the story to give you that extra "push" you need to play through it.

I think that might be the difference. I'm just dungeon crawling on the train, while watching TV, before bed, etc. I'm not really looking for a deep or engrossing story and anything cool in that department is basically just gravy.

 

[dragonlife]

I'm about three hours in and I've gotta say I love this game.

I love the normal battle theme and how it kicks in when you press Fight...pretty nice touch and it pumps me up.

The boss battle theme is so disappointing, though =(

Confession time: I've never beaten any SMT other than P3, P4, and Devil Summoner, even though I own all the ones released in the U.S. I hope I don't stop playing this one because I'm seriously enjoying it a lot. What makes this more sad is that I bought them in this order: Nocturne, DDS2, Devil Summoner, P3, DDS and in order from P4 onward.

 

[Coxswain]

Honestly, I find it difficult to see how someone would, on a gameplay level, like Nocturne and not like Strange Journey or other entries in the MegaTen metaseries. It is more or less the same gameplay with varying tweaks.

The gameplay is completely different between the two. Nocturne (and DDS) have phase-based combat with a good deal of nuance and strategy that, thanks to the Press Turn system, is inherent to the game's mechanics, independent of how you've built and customized your party. The malleability of which character acts and in what order you execute your party's actions, and the fact that Press Turn effects apply to both your party and your enemy's, give it a depth that goes far beyond just hitting the enemy's weakness.

Strange Journey (and older MT games, and to some extent Devil Survivor) uses a round-based combat system. Every character on the field gets one action per round, and executes them in a semi-randomized order that you have no control over. There's no option to consolidate your turns, and there's no option to ensure that one particular action takes place immediately preceding or following another, so that can't be part of your strategy. Demon Co-Op just extracts the shallowest Press Turn mechanic - hitting weaknesses - and then further simplifies it so that it has no use other than more extra damage beyond what the enemy would already take from being weak to that element, restricts you further when you use it by requiring your party to match in alignment, and to top it all off, it can't be used against you, so there's no risk involved. The combat system is basically reduced to something on the level of a Dragon Quest or a Lost Odyssey, which feels simplistic and limiting even compared to Persona 3/4, let alone Nocturne.


It's easy to see how someone could enjoy Nocturne and be left cold by Strange Journey. I don't mind SJ, but while Nocturne is probably one of my top 3 turn-based RPGs ever, I think I could walk into the living room and pull off close to a dozen from the last 7-8 years that I think are better than Strange Journey.

 

[Freyjadour]

I'm well aware of how the systems work.

What I don't understand is the "I couldn't get past the first 5 hours of SJ, but Nocturne is the best JRPG ever!".

 

[Coxswain]

Well, then I don't really know how to explain it more properly. It's a huge rift in quality between the combat in the two games. Like, I dunno... Bubsy versus Mario, as a platformer. Strange Journey does other, non-combat stuff that's pretty cool; I'd put the dungeons as about on-par with Nocturne, and the fusion mechanics are even a bit better, but combat is still far and away the central element of the game, and if I wasn't so into the franchise as a whole, I probably would have walked away after the first couple of hours myself.

 

[Forkball]

Out of the SMT series, I've only played Nocturne and Persona 3. Nocturne was a bit too frustrating for me, and I really enjoyed Persona 3, but I was also annoyed by things like the lack of save points and enemies that could fuck you up in one turn. How would I like SJ? Is it a crippling old-school dungeon crawler, or is it more accessible? I need a new DS game and I don't want to catch hundreds of Pokemon again...

 

[Cep]

Out of the SMT series, I've only played Nocturne and Persona 3. Nocturne was a bit too frustrating for me, and I really enjoyed Persona 3, but I was also annoyed by things like the lack of save points and enemies that could fuck you up in one turn. How would I like SJ? Is it a crippling old-school dungeon crawler, or is it more accessible? I need a new DS game and I don't want to catch hundreds of Pokemon again...

I found the game really easy and its systems easily understandable and exploitable without having me grind (a big thing for me).

I just find the combat to be really simplistic and the dungeons uninteresting. I never got to the point where the story got annoying (though it felt a little fetch-y at times).

I mean, their(the dungeons) form and structure is mostly really good (if a bit too long and odd in the pacing area), but content-wise? Boring and sterile as fuck.

 

[Archie]

I'm really glad I beat this game before GAF decided to start turning on it, lol. It is my runner up to GOTY right now.

 

[HK-47]

Out of the SMT series, I've only played Nocturne and Persona 3. Nocturne was a bit too frustrating for me, and I really enjoyed Persona 3, but I was also annoyed by things like the lack of save points and enemies that could fuck you up in one turn. How would I like SJ? Is it a crippling old-school dungeon crawler, or is it more accessible? I need a new DS game and I don't want to catch hundreds of Pokemon again...

Play Survivor. Its like catching Pokemon, but with all the horrible consequences of mere mortals running around with control of gods and elemental forces!

 

[Cep]

Huh? No traps? No pitfalls? No fire soaked tiles that you have to cross to get to the other side of the room while fighting onslaughts of demons?

SMT dungeon design is really fun for me.

As I keep on saying, the structure and the design to the dungeons are really good. Nay, fantastic.

But all the action is happening on the bottom screen. The map is what you are exploring and progressing through, not the dungeon.

 

[Archie]

The instant kill thing has been really overstated, imo. Your MC naturally neutralizes to expel (barring that you wear an item that modifies that) and you can find some decent armor to buff your curse resistance. I think I had one yard trash IK in the 55 hours I played.

 

[Lafiel]

The instant kill thing has been really overstated, imo. Your MC naturally neutralizes to expel (barring that you wear an item that modifies that) and you can find some decent armor to buff your curse resistance. I think I had one yard trash IK in the 55 hours I played.

Funny for a SMT game. I don't think i've gotten my MC killed once by a instant death skill.:lol

 

[HK-47]

I'm really glad I beat this game before GAF decided to start turning on it, lol. It is my runner up to GOTY right now.

Yes complaints = utter hatred! Heaven forbid I form my own opinion!

I dont get how GAF's critical streak would affect your enjoyment if the game was really doing it for you.

 

[Coxswain]

The instant kill thing has been really overstated, imo. Your MC naturally neutralizes to expel (barring that you wear an item that modifies that) and you can find some decent armor to buff your curse resistance. I think I had one yard trash IK in the 55 hours I played.

It's not really an issue of how frequently it happens; it's just really bad design for it to ever happen that way - any situation where the player dies and has no reasonable way to prevent it* is an unfortunate incident that isn't any fun. It's forgivable, or at least understandable, if it occasionally happens when the stars align properly to create a multi-variable perfect storm of bad luck for the player. Not when there are relatively common abilities that are explicitly designed to do just that.
Atlus really needs to sack up and admit that Hama and Mudo suck ass. Every now and again, it sort of looks like they get it (DDS made Expel take off a flat percentage of current HP, and Devil Survivor had no instant kills at all), but it's really below the bar they've set for themselves in terms of design quality, and sadly it's been in almost all of their games.


*(Yes, there's Dark-resist armour/Magatama, but the relative rarity of enemies with those abilities and the chance that they won't hit the main character, or won't trigger if they do, usually makes the opportunity cost too great to bother with them, compared to other sets with general and reliable benefits.)

 

[Archie]

Yes complaints = utter hatred! Heaven forbid I form my own opinion!

I dont get how GAF's critical streak would affect your enjoyment if the game was really doing it for you.

Hey don't get me wrong, I don't think this game is by any means perfect. The plot is paper thin, the characters are laughable stereotypes and demon co op is nowhere as elegant a system as press turn, but the tone in this thread has been quite negative since the GS review was posted and I personally am influenced to a degree by groupthink. I would have probably been more nitpicky about things instead of shrugging them off.

 

[C-Jo]

*(Yes, there's Dark-resist armour/Magatama, but the relative rarity of enemies with those abilities and the chance that they won't hit the main character, or won't trigger if they do, usually makes the opportunity cost too great to bother with them, compared to other sets with general and reliable benefits.)

Don't forget about homunculus/sacrifice or other such items.

I dunno, I can see why some people would be annoyed by instant death scenarios, but I like them. They only really occur early on, and don't happen often enough to be a real nuisance. It's a "friendly" little reminder that even if you may not be able to do anything about it, this game is serious and you need to be paying attention at all times.

 

[Archie]

I can't comment on the Persona games, but the story is pretty standard and the supporting cast isn't as interesting as Nocturne's or Devil Survivor's.

 

[Cep]

What about the themes?

Heavy handed as fuck from every direction.

 

[HK-47]

Don't forget about homunculus/sacrifice or other such items.

I dunno, I can see why some people would be annoyed by instant death scenarios, but I like them. They only really occur early on, and don't happen often enough to be a real nuisance. It's a "friendly" little reminder that even if you may not be able to do anything about it, this game is serious and you need to be paying attention at all times.

Eh, SMT already has the concept of the wake up boss to do that though.

 

[Vamphuntr]

Anyone found a good grinding spot for near the endgame? I'm only level 70 and I really want to fuse some higher level demons like

Spoiler

Metatron and Amaterasu

but leveling up is so slow.

 

[Archie]

What about the themes?

Spoiler

It is basically a commentary on how humans have fucked up the Earth with overconsumption and overpopulation.

Anyone found a good grinding spot for near the endgame? I'm only level 70 and I really want to fuse some higher level demons like

Spoiler

Metatron and Amaterasu

but leveling up is so slow.

The final dungeon on the 8th floor. Use your demon search to find

Spoiler

Trumpeter

and fight him. The only downside is it is still pretty slow since he is so rare, but apparently there is a demon search C app that might help him appear more often.

 

[Y2Kev]

Atlus really needs to sack up and admit that Hama and Mudo suck ass.

:thumbsup

 

[HK-47]

Wow, that sounds really preachy, but maybe I'll have a different opinion. One of the things I love about SMT games is how they're written: they contain mature themes and topics that few rpgs tackle (japanese or western rpg, doesn't matter) and they tell their stories with such gusto and personality.

Even a game like SMT3, which has sparse cutscenes manages to craft expert storytelling through thematic and symbolic storytelling and this is something that SMT does better than any other rpg series out there.

In any case, still can't wait!

SJ so far is clumsy and heavyhanded, unlike Nocturne.

 

[Cep]

Wow, that sounds really preachy, but maybe I'll have a different opinion. One of the things I love about SMT games is how they're written: they contain mature themes and topics that few rpgs tackle (japanese or western rpg, doesn't matter) and they tell their stories with such gusto and personality.

Even a game like SMT3, which has sparse cutscenes manages to craft expert storytelling through thematic and symbolic storytelling and this is something that SMT does better than any other rpg series out there.

In any case, still can't wait!

It done in such an obvious and direct manner though. The game starts thumping you over the head in the first couple of seconds.

For heaven's sake, you commander's name is Gore.

 

[Vamphuntr]

The final dungeon on the 8th floor. Use your demon search to find

Spoiler

Trumpeter

and fight him. The only downside is it is still pretty slow since he is so rare, but apparently there is a demon search C app that might help him appear more often.

Yeah I fought him once already. He is really rare and if you get another enemy that is not

Spoiler

a fiend

then the fight yield 0 xp, only formas and items. Oh well guess it's gonna take a while.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

For heaven's sake, you commander's name is Gore.

Spoiler

He actually ends up being the closest thing to "good" and the most optimistic character.

Still not as heavy handed as P4. :lol

 

[HK-47]

Spoiler

He actually ends up being the closest thing to "good" and the most optimistic character.

Still not as heavy handed as P4. :lol

Yeah but that was less in the themes and more in the "we think the player is retarded, so lets repeat info like mad" sort of way.

 

[MechaX]

Spoiler

He actually ends up being the closest thing to "good" and the most optimistic character.

Spoiler

Tuxedo Gore definitely was one of the more weird, but still pretty interesting characters of the game.

Yeah but that was less in the themes and more in the "we think the player is retarded, so lets repeat info like mad" sort of way.

Even P4 is behind Raidou 2 in that regard.

"What's my name, Raidou?"
> Tae
> Kichou

"Hey Raidou, want to go over the findings of the case again?"
"Well, not really since it's only been 10 minutes since I've started the chap-"
"OF COURSE YOU DO!"

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Yeah but that was less in the themes and more in the "we think the player is retarded, so lets repeat info like mad" sort of way.

Nope, themes were that way too.

Even the battle music.

 

[Yaweee]

Noooo.



Other SMT games, aside from maybe the Persona titles, don't beat your head over with anything.

Who wrote the scenario for SJ?

Raidou 2 beats the play over the head, too.

 

[Dresden]

:thumbsup

But I like mudo and hama. It's like getting run over by a drunk driver.

Also, I think I might just start getting demon codes for uber tenseimons.

 

[HK-47]

Nope, themes were that way too.

Even the battle music.

Like?

 

[Y2Kev]

But I like mudo and hama. It's like getting run over by a drunk driver.

Also, I think I might just start getting demon codes for uber tenseimons.

I think Mudo and Hama are less annoying in SJ because there are way more savepoints, but no one* can tell me they think it is the most effective way to keep tension elevated in something like Persona 4. You'll just be adventuring along, then you'll come to a random floor, and then you'll be Mudo'd or Hama'd out of existence in one turn. So annoying, and not like, "Ah, they got me!" More like, "Ah, they dumped on my chest!"

*some people enjoy being dumped on, so I'm sure someone will object