• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Some perspective on the Next-Gen: this is how a first year ng exclusive looked like last gen

yurinka

Member
Jan 19, 2007
14,147
6,220
1,745
Barcelona, Spain
www.capcom-town.es
Where are the Next-Gen games that wow all of us?

The best concrete thing we have seen is a short teaser of a game coming out in 2023 that looks better but not this much better.

Let's face it: this next-gen is half assed, the hardware is not powerful enough, especially on the ray tracing side.
There are published games like Ratchet Rift Apart, Demon's Souls or Returnal, and announced ones or the next months like FH5, (and many other ones delayed due to a huge pandeming like) Horizon 2, GT7 and GoWR. In addition to the pandemic, the game development cycles are now longer, so games take longer to be released, so patience is needed.

On top of that, now it's easier and cheaper to make crossgen games, and the previous generation now has way more active players than the previous generation had at the same point, so devs are more encouraged to make corssgen games.

As a reference, PS4 had around 90M monthly active users a few months after the PS5 release. And PS3 sold 87.4 in all its lifetime, obviously only a part of them were still active after the PS4 launch. More late big releases thanks to crossgen, services like PS Plus, GaaS etc. keep now people more time there.
 
Last edited:

LMJ

Member
Feb 7, 2019
1,348
2,407
580
Yeah I agree with what you said too, I guess my main point is that making stuff like GT7, God of War and Horizon FW cross-gen was a decision made loooooong before the pandemic hit. I just hope that the entirety of 1st party manpower was not put on these cross-gen games, and that we'll get some more true next-gen games by like 2023.. (and that they're just holding them back until competition with Xbox actually is a thing rather than them just selling every unit they can produce).

GOWR and Horizon were likely in development a year or two after their PS4 titles were seen as a success, thus they were developed for the PS4 first and foremost. I have almost no doubt in my mind these games were well underway in PS4 development before they like many others received their PSV dev kits. So they are likely the PS4Pro but...a bit more so lol.

I'll explain that last line, the PSPro and the XbX were NEVER taken full advantage of, but rather brute forced to give a few bells and whistles, but mostly just higher FPS and resolution, here we find cross gen titles in a similar situation...at least for now. Once this generation starts to really move I expect the cross gen games to continue, but in a manner similar to Gran Turismo 7. What I mean is Gran Turismo 7 on the other sounds like a completely different story, where the game was made on the V first and foremost and THEN they ported (are porting) it down to the PS4. As such I don't expect the game to suffer to much.

This is where you'll really start to see the past gen consoles suffer (imagine Ratchet Rift Apart on the PS4) and what you would lose

The crisp resolution
the ray tracing
a number of the particle effects
The SSD rifts would need to be reworked
A good deal of what's on screen at once
and the near instantaneous load times

That's a lot to sacrifice...
 

JerryinSoCal

Member
Apr 11, 2020
1,243
2,154
390
I have commented about Demon's Souls already, it look okay, definitely not jaw dropping.

Killzone Shadow Fall was jaw dropping, it was at launch and was an original title.



I don't remember the exact percentage, but if you know how percentages work (you should) you know that it was something around that number and we have seen Xbox One OG struggle for a generation with 1080p games.

The rest of your post is filled with misinformation.

- Celerons at the time were not as powerful as the Jaguar CPUS inside the consoles.
- They had more than 4GB of rom, actually 8GB of which 4-5 available for games
- Every console in the past 25 years has been "already outdated at launch" since more powerful PCs have always been available for prices several times higher than a console.

Nevertheless, PS4 has proven to be a quite powerful machine, providing a incredible generational leap and graphics that have required much more powerful and expensive PCs to be matched.


Website say lots of dumb shit all the time.

They reported the claim that PS2 was capable of Toy Story graphics in 2000.

It absolutely doesn't look like a pixar movie and it's not even in any top 20 of the best looking PS4 games, nobody gave a damn about its graphics in 2016, they were alright.
They didn't say the PS2 could do that they said the goal was to get there some day. I agree it's not up to pixar quality but it was the best looking game of it's kind that we had seen up to that point, saying it wasn't impressive on PS4 just because you don't like it doesn't make it true.
 

bender

Candy Corn Aficionado
Apr 12, 2010
12,393
22,124
1,480
Let's face it: this next-gen is half assed, the hardware is not powerful enough, especially on the ray tracing side.

On a serious note, we saw this same complaint last generation.

The days of quantum leaps between generations of hardware are over, doubly so if we see pro consoles again. And until we have multiple generations in a row trying to target the same resolution, things will continue to feel like an evolution rather than a revolution.
 

TheTony316

Member
Aug 17, 2021
63
80
180
Yeah it's a joke honestly. This gen just has felt like more of the same. If it weren't for quick resume or the dualsense, I wouldn't tell the difference tbh. Consoles are like cell phones at this point.

The industry is too focused on hitting resolution and frame rate targets that they don't even give a damn to actually improve visual details or physics.

Somehow the ps4 was way outdated at launch than the ps5 was, yet the new ps5 is showing slower technical growth with games. Maybe developers just have lost their mojo? Who knows. But next gen has been a lie
It's way too early to tell. I remember people saying the same thing about cross-gen games at the time. That PS4 versions are nothing more than high res PS3/360 games.
 
Oct 26, 2018
22,606
31,755
885
Cross gen support gimped next gen gaming. As well as devs reliance on mtx from existing gen gamers.

Other eras were more about hard cut offs. Ya, some systems you could play older gens or had a BC chips built into it, but most didnt support BC, the gap in power was so big there was no cross gen game to support, no mtx to milk off last gen gamers etc.... so devs did hard cut offs.

Unless the Xbox One/PS4 gamer base dies off with sales and mtx, youre going to get lingering cross gen games which hurt launching exclusive next gen projects.
 

Trunx81

Neo Member
Aug 16, 2021
19
10
90
Isn’t it funny that “next gen” is mostly defined by graphics instead of new gameplay elements? Ratchet especially comes to mind, using the SSD to make impressively quick jumps in worlds that wouldn’t have been possible in older hardware. That’s how I define next gen for me: Give me something that an older Maschine isn’t able to do and what is not only a gimmick.
 

TaiLopezFan

Member
Feb 5, 2021
139
610
315
60 FPS is killing the graphics. This is only possible with 30 FPS
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Sep 30, 2019
5,833
12,149
650
I have commented about Demon's Souls already, it look okay, definitely not jaw dropping.

Killzone Shadow Fall was jaw dropping, it was at launch and was an original title.



I don't remember the exact percentage, but if you know how percentages work (you should) you know that it was something around that number and we have seen Xbox One OG struggle for a generation with 1080p games.

The rest of your post is filled with misinformation.

- Celerons at the time were not as powerful as the Jaguar CPUS inside the consoles.
- They had more than 4GB of rom, actually 8GB of which 4-5 available for games
- Every console in the past 25 years has been "already outdated at launch" since more powerful PCs have always been available for prices several times higher than a console.

Nevertheless, PS4 has proven to be a quite powerful machine, providing a incredible generational leap and graphics that have required much more powerful and expensive PCs to be matched.


Website say lots of dumb shit all the time.

They reported the claim that PS2 was capable of Toy Story graphics in 2000.

It absolutely doesn't look like a pixar movie and it's not even in any top 20 of the best looking PS4 games, nobody gave a damn about its graphics in 2016, they were alright.
The Office What GIF
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ezekiel_666x
Sep 22, 2020
681
1,059
385
It’s not a huge jump in screenshots but almost everything I have played on next (current) gen so far has been 60fps. Going from unstable 30fps to solid 60fps is a game changer for me.

I tried to play Shadow of War the other day which is still 30fps and ended up just buying the PC version as I can’t tolerate 30fps stuff anymore though I can happily play something that looks like a Wii game at 60fps.

If we start dropping to 30fps again later in the gen I will honestly wait for Pro models / PS6 / PC version.
 

Karonoth

Member
Dec 9, 2020
494
981
295
Blame the people who value resolution above anything else. Games are not going to look much different in pictures when they have to run at 4k.

That being said, I could definitely see the difference when playing Demon's Souls and Rift Apart. But it was a smaller jump than going from PS3 to PS4.

So far the SSD and 60 fps (Performance modes) is what I like the most this gen.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hobbygaming

MadViking

Member
Apr 8, 2018
203
219
265
PS3 to PS4 was at least 8x increase graphically and 16x more memory. PS4 to PS5 is around 5-6x graphically and only 2x more memory. Also the jump from 720p/30 to 1080p/30 is much smaller than 1080p/30 to 4k/30 or 1440p/60 - this alone eats most of the power increase. So don't expect games being much more advanced than PS4, unless they go 1440p/30 or even less. But the developers and most gamers don't seem to be interested in photo-realistic graphics. Just look at The Order 1886, even today it's still one of the best graphics despite it's much lower resolution, even compared to most PS5 games. Same with Driveclub. Yet they were not commercial successes and the studios are gone or switched to something else.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ripeavocado
Oct 26, 2018
22,606
31,755
885
PS3 to PS4 was at least 8x increase graphically and 16x more memory. PS4 to PS5 is around 5-6x graphically and only 2x more memory. Also the jump from 720p/30 to 1080p/30 is much smaller than 1080p/30 to 4k/30 or 1440p/60 - this alone eats most of the power increase. So don't expect games being much more advanced than PS4, unless they go 1440p/30 or even less. But the developers and most gamers don't seem to be interested in photo-realistic graphics. Just look at The Order 1886, even today it's still one of the best graphics despite it's much lower resolution, even compared to most PS5 games. Same with Driveclub. Yet they were not commercial successes and the studios are gone or switched to something else.
Yup.

Res and frames boosts will eat up a lot of that extra power. Dont forget the trend to RT too which eats up even more.

Now for next next gen in 2027, assuming console games peak out at 4k/60 you should get some big jumps in quality of graphics or physics etc.... (assuming they do that).

But if PS6 and Series Y gun for 8k and/or 120fps as new 2027 standards, then kiss those beefed up specs goodbye again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HercRaato

UnNamed

18+ Member, acts like 12 year old console warrior
Dec 21, 2006
2,483
4,436
1,560
Somewhere in Bananaland
Ratchet is good in visual, better than what you see on PS4, no doubt about it.

The problem is you can't really see a jump from the last gen, everything is more polished now but lacks in brute force, the element we should expect in a new gen. Ryse and Killzone SF were a demonstration of brute force back in the day.

That's why UE5 demo is so impressive, it's brute force everywhere.
 

Lethal01

Member
Jun 15, 2019
2,614
4,244
590
Sorry, by saying UE4 it probably seemed like I said that, but I was actually talking about the RT in the UE4 PS5 native app version.

And I was talking about how there is no RT in the native PS5 version, I accidentally said PS4 but that's just a typo, feel free to give me a reason to believe I'm wrong.

Everything I read indicates that they have recoded some of their lighting system but I've seen no mention on RT.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: PaintTinJr

PaintTinJr

Member
Jan 30, 2020
1,219
2,699
475
Oxfordshire, England
And I was talking about how there is no RT in the native PS5 version, I accidentally said PS4 but that's just a typo, feel free to give me a reason to believe I'm wrong.

Everything I read indicates that they have recoded some of their lighting system but I've seen no mention on RT.
Yeah I can't find the source where it said the quality mode had new dynamic lighting from RT, so that would certainly explain why it doesn't look transformative, but it does look better than just a resolution bump over performance mode, on my TV - guessing that's the X1 Extreme chip doing more with a cleaner source.
 
Last edited:

Hosam6xavi

Member
Jun 16, 2019
614
2,267
460
Saudi Arabia
What if i told you that the beginning of this generation is waaaay better for me than the last one

60fps and huge library of games from day 1 is more than enough for me
 

YeulEmeralda

Member
Aug 8, 2020
1,166
1,055
335
PS3 to PS4 was at least 8x increase graphically and 16x more memory. PS4 to PS5 is around 5-6x graphically and only 2x more memory. Also the jump from 720p/30 to 1080p/30 is much smaller than 1080p/30 to 4k/30 or 1440p/60 - this alone eats most of the power increase. So don't expect games being much more advanced than PS4, unless they go 1440p/30 or even less. But the developers and most gamers don't seem to be interested in photo-realistic graphics. Just look at The Order 1886, even today it's still one of the best graphics despite it's much lower resolution, even compared to most PS5 games. Same with Driveclub. Yet they were not commercial successes and the studios are gone or switched to something else.
Maybe I'm wrong but I think going from 30fps to 60fps can be considered a quantum leap.

Really pretty slideshows are only good for screenshots.
 

MHubert

Member
Dec 22, 2019
441
489
390
My numbers are from Sony's own fiscal results. They have never posted higher revenues and profits than they did last year.

And Sony was no a private company when they launched PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4. They answered to shareholders and launched next gen consoles with next gen games while posting a fraction of profits they are doing today.

Dont defend greed.
This is seriously getting tiresome. Expecting sony or any other company to inflate the costs of their games while using other divisions of successful business to cover for the losses just to appease your sorry ass is, *cough* *cough*, naive at best. These concepts aren't rocket science.

I will never defend greed, which is why I will never defend people like you whining about 10$.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Feb 23, 2010
4,328
73
925
Seattle, WA
When the 360 came out, I was impressed by games like Fight Night, PGR 3 and Lost Planet and thought they looked better than anything available at the time.

On the PS4, same reaction with games like Driveclub and Infamous.

Now on PS5, we get similarly impressive looking games like Demon's Souls and Ratchet (I think Ratchet has to be near the top, especially if you have the option to play it at 40 fps). So not sure what exactly it is the OP is looking for
 
  • Like
Reactions: skit_data

Rikkori

Member
May 9, 2020
2,704
5,122
470
Just wait for the end of the year for console players to finally experience next-gen... :messenger_sunglasses:

 

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
12,734
36,117
1,260
This is seriously getting tiresome. Expecting sony or any other company to inflate the costs of their games while using other divisions of successful business to cover for the losses just to appease your sorry ass is, *cough* *cough*, naive at best. These concepts aren't rocket science.

I will never defend greed, which is why I will never defend people like you whining about 10$.
Try $500. I dont care if they charge an extra $10 for PS5 games as long as the games are taking full advantage of the hardware.

You are defending greed. The company has never been more profitable. Their shares have never been higher. This in a year where they launched a console for a loss and released THREE next gen only games. Launching THREE cross gen games next year is greed.
 

Elder Legend

Yoir Aee Member
Jun 10, 2019
2,338
5,446
815
So is the OP saying that gamesike Demons Souls Remake, Returnal and Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart look like trash? What kind of mushrooms are you taking doggo?
 

MHubert

Member
Dec 22, 2019
441
489
390
Try $500. I dont care if they charge an extra $10 for PS5 games as long as the games are taking full advantage of the hardware.

You are defending greed. The company has never been more profitable. Their shares have never been higher. This in a year where they launched a console for a loss and released THREE next gen only games. Launching THREE cross gen games next year is greed.
What has their shares and revenue got to do with anything? Get a grip.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Aug 18, 2017
11,426
8,482
945
Mount Olympus
www.neogaf.com
Once a month we have an OP just shitting on the current generation of games. I think we’ll remember as the PS4 as a graphical beast but I’m not playing 4+ year old Infamous over today’s games.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Jun 9, 2004
6,504
3,461
1,735
Quebec, canada
TV manufacturers pushing 4K so early basically put a stick in the wheels of real-time graphics for 2 generations. 4K is brutal, even on top end PC. It’s a waste of ressources IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Swift_Star

Warnen

Can he swing from a thread? Take a look overhead / Hey, there, there goes the Spider-Man
Sep 24, 2005
6,413
7,294
1,885
Sea lab
Games will start to look amazing just in time for the mid gen upgrades and then we start all over again.
 
Mar 16, 2014
1,364
1,307
780
If they weren’t so focused on 60-120fps, then maybe we could’ve had a huge jump. Also, most early games this gen are cross-gen, so they’re not that graphically demanding.

Rift Apart looks a generation ahead of R&C 2016 and Demon’s Souls could’ve run on PS4 at a lower resolution as the environments are static and it’s essentially a PS3 (CPU-wise) with an updated engine and good graphics.

I was super impressed by early PS4 games such as Shadow Fall, Second Son, DriveClub, The Order and AC Unity, but it seems like as the generation went on, games started to look to similar to each other. Not really breaking any new ground.

For example look at infamous 1 vs infamous 2 or Uncharted 1 vs Uncharted 2 vs Uncharted 3 vs TLOU1. You can clearly see in those games that graphics kept improving with each new game. We didn’t really get much of that on the PS4. Yes, Uncharted 4 looked awesome but TLOU2 wasn’t that far ahead of it.
 

GymWolf

Member
Jun 11, 2019
20,589
31,075
670
Don't waste your time, people are gonna answer with that absolute bullshit diminishing returns narrative to justify the small jump we had.

Also a lot of crossgen that really don't show what the machine is capable of.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ripeavocado

Swift_Star

Member
Sep 5, 2021
483
814
280
If they weren’t so focused on 60-120fps, then maybe we could’ve had a huge jump. Also, most early games this gen are cross-gen, so they’re not that graphically demanding.

Rift Apart looks a generation ahead of R&C 2016 and Demon’s Souls could’ve run on PS4 at a lower resolution as the environments are static and it’s essentially a PS3 (CPU-wise) with an updated engine and good graphics.

I was super impressed by early PS4 games such as Shadow Fall, Second Son, DriveClub, The Order and AC Unity, but it seems like as the generation went on, games started to look to similar to each other. Not really breaking any new ground.

For example look at infamous 1 vs infamous 2 or Uncharted 1 vs Uncharted 2 vs Uncharted 3 vs TLOU1. You can clearly see in those games that graphics kept improving with each new game. We didn’t really get much of that on the PS4. Yes, Uncharted 4 looked awesome but TLOU2 wasn’t that far ahead of it.
We'll just have to deal with this shit now since PC gamers, DF and other snowflakes are always crying about how 30fps sucks and bla bla bla. That's what you get if you want HFR on consoles. It is what it is.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: sncvsrtoip

Numenorean

Member
Mar 26, 2020
78
115
235
Yeah it's a joke honestly. This gen just has felt like more of the same. If it weren't for quick resume or the dualsense, I wouldn't tell the difference tbh. Consoles are like cell phones at this point.

The industry is too focused on hitting resolution and frame rate targets that they don't even give a damn to actually improve visual details or physics.

Somehow the ps4 was way outdated at launch than the ps5 was, yet the new ps5 is showing slower technical growth with games. Maybe developers just have lost their mojo? Who knows. But next gen has been a lie

I have a serious grind with people saying this

Each time a new console generation is released, some people look back at the prior generation and say "x console was very outdated,/not powerful/very weak/ etc"

But when x console was actually released I always remember that is always praised. In this case, PS4 was highly praised for having 8 gb RAM and some others things.
 

Deerock71

Member
Sep 3, 2021
471
654
300
Yeah, that looks pretty good. We're gonna need fine-toothed combs to start picking out the details that make generations stand apart, short of creating a holodeck.
 

thebigmanjosh

Member
May 9, 2013
1,083
1,355
725
PS3/XB360

Diminishing Returns.
The Diminishing Returns Generation is going to be so awesome ;)
Diminishing returns I guess. It rarely meets my expectations to this day, possibly because the old Xbox was so impressive?


PS4/XB1
I am as excited for this gen as much as the next zealot...

but damn... the very definition of "diminishing returns". Honestly looks great, but I'm wondering if this gen will be defined as "open the damn muddy/screen door already!!" Better textures and crisper models are about all I'm expecting for the next 8 years I guess.
Man, talk about diminishing returns... I mean, I'm a total graphics whore and I'm really geeky when it comes to this kinda stuff, love reading up about it and always used to follow the demo scene etc... But even though I do see and understand that there's so much new and advanced tech in these demos, it just doesn't end up impressing much more than say Battlefield 4 or even 'standard' UE3 games that don't do anything super crazy like Hawken.

We've really entered an era where it's so much more about art than before, similar to how the first Toy Story movie was a technical marvel but by the time we were at Finding Nemo, technical advancements had become so much more unnoticeable compared to artistic distinction.

Either way still cool shit and I still love this kind of stuff, especially when it comes to advances in lighting, global illumination and new AA methods being applied and such.

Rinse. Repeat.
 

Boglin

Member
Jul 26, 2013
463
936
625
This generation's consoles spent all of their additional power to only increase FPS and resolution with a light sprinkling of ray tracing. If the next Xbox and PS6 don't target an FPS and resolution increase again then with the advent of DLSS like technologies, along with an adequate amount of dedicated ray tracing hardware for global illumination, we should see a noticeable bump, IMO.
 

Bankai

Member
Jul 14, 2015
1,081
1,689
625
You don't see framerate (almost all games a steady 60fps) through these screenshots, which is a HUGE improvement over lastgen and really impacts gameplay.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Jun 3, 2020
1,433
1,711
360
I've never really got the diminishing returns argument, even in theory, because it totally ignores that real time graphics are advancing in *absolute* terms as well as relative terms. People don't JUST perceive the improvement over the previous generation, but also how good the graphics *actually* are - how absolutely attractive they are to look at. Who's to say that the positive response you might have to very good graphics isn't going to trump the negative response you might have to the fact that they're not necessarily THAT much better than what's come before?

For me the absolute standard was always a major factor, even right back to the early days of 3d. PSX games might have represented a major leap in computing power, but they were ALWAYS ugly. I distinctly remember thinking that at the time. It was the same but less so right up to the PS4 generation, when things were finally generally reasonably good representations of reality/CG etc. I can still play something like God of War or Days Gone now and be genuinely impressed with the graphics, even after playing stuff like Ratchet & Clank - ie even though they look 'worse'. They look worse, but they also look great.

FWIW I think this gen will be a big jump as well as just being beautiful. If developers can combine the RT GI of Metro Exodus with the ground-up next gen visuals that Ratchet achieved at 1440p60, then we'll see some truly huge leaps in fidelity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hobbygaming