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Sony signs agreement with MS to keep COD on PS

The problem, if you're not a fan of MS, is that they largely can. They're in so deep with businesses via Office, Teams, and Azure--not to mention a slew of lucrative government contracts, that Xbox can continue to be something of a money pit because they (as in MS) have looked at it as a defensive position.

Now, with this acquisition, they're going to have show some results...and probably more quickly than most people realize. Again, though, the problem for detractors is that MS are quite good at providing value to shareholders.

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MS is so large that it becomes harder to grow

They could see their stock go nowhere for the next decade plus like it did in 2000-2012, and if that happens there will be less appetite for wasteful non essential spending
 

Spyxos

Gold Member
I don't think this is true. I get the overlap between CoD players and Fortnite players is quite large.

I don't have stats or anything so maybe I'm wrong, but anecdotally almost everyone I know that plays CoD also plays Fortnite or Apex or PUBG or Tarkov or some combination thereof.
I can only speak of people I have played these games with over the last 2 years. The people who played Fortnite didn't touch Cod and vice versa. Sure it could be exceptions, but that's how I've experienced it so far.

Apex and Pubg and Tarkov appealed more to the Battlefield people I know.
 
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One thing I do hope to see come from this is for Sony to step up and put together a studio/studio branch using its old FPS vets from GG, Bungie, and Insomniac and get a solid core pvp FPS out.

Maybe revive the SOCOM or Warhawk branding if they can, maybe something new.
 

Godot25

Banned
Again, no one knows the details of this deal.

I dont know how you could read my post as talking like I know...exactly..... what the deal is.

Thats what ...you ....are doing....
Ehh...because Microsoft basically said terms of the deal when they offered it? Soooo...we kinda know.

Brad Smith said during his EU/GB visit that they offered Sony option to put COD on PS Plus, they offered 10 year deal, and feature and content parity
Spencer during FTC trial said that they offered standard revenue split (70:30)
So I don't know what more do you need to know.

And it makes no sense to alter it for Microsoft...Especially after Spencer and Nadella promised COD on PS under oath.

As I said...only "interesting" thing would be to know if this new deal cancels current marketing contract that covers MWIII.
 
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Chiggs

Gold Member
MS is so large that it becomes harder to grow

They could see their stock go nowhere for the next decade plus like it did in 2000-2012, and if that happens there will be less appetite for wasteful non essential spending

That's definitely true but I'd imagine MS are just as "capable" of falling into the sunken cost fallacy as most companies are, meaning that the gaming stuff is probably safe for a decent period of time because "hey, we bought it!"
 
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Kokoloko85

Member
"But Microsoft wants to foreclose COD from Playstation as soon as possible"

So why on Earth would they still offered a deal when they did not have to?

It's hilarious that I had to read for a year how it's a bad deal, how it is only for regulators.. Now it seems like Sony was dishonest as fuck with regulators in hopes that they will block the deal and now even "unacceptable" deal is somewhat okay...

Because they will eventually do like they did with Bethesda
 
I don't understand, is this deal not the result of negotiation? Wasn't the 2024 expiration from a previous agreement?
Why would Sony agree to this if they'd just lose out on COD in a year? That doesn't sound right to me. Surely the conditions of the deal aren't the same.

Okay, I had a misunderstanding about the length of the current contract. 2025 therein would have been the earliest MS could have tried some big moves in foreclosing COD (or parts of COD) on PlayStation platforms.

Still though, I think people thinking Sony got a sweetheart deal here are in denial. I'm not saying this because I even want to, but rather because of what the reality of the situation most likely is.

I can see Microsoft sweetening the pot for those that sub to Gamepass or primarily play on Xbox platforms, but I don't see them going as far to undermine the selling potential of COD on PlayStation.
Gampass release at launch is a lot more plausible than COD being exclusive to Xbox platforms.

Game Pass Day 1 for COD undermines B2P sales revenue on PlayStation anyway :/

And on the other side of those arguments we had some folks saying the moment the deal was done then Microsoft would be free to yank COD away from PS and regulators could do nothing about it. So all kind of theories have come out of this drama. I find myself repeatedly asking people why they think Phil Spencer is a blatant liar because many are still convinced COD will be exclusive.

Awkward John Krasinski GIF by Saturday Night Live

The redacted court documents have proven Phil Spencer to be a hypocrite at the very least, if not an outright liar. All the pro-consumer stuff he shops online is just a facade. If it were up to him, Minecraft would've been console-exclusive to Xbox, but Notch stopped that from happening (at least for a "Minecraft"; no telling what may happen with Minecraft 2 for example, if that does happen).

Also I don't think regulators have any problem with MS removing COD off PlayStation; the CMA have said that partial or even full foreclosure of COD on PlayStation would not result in a significant shift of console market share to be deemed anticompetitive, and the EC agreed with them. The FTC played the "but Sony!" angle in the PI hearing and arguably lost the hearing because of it, when they should've concentrated more on how Sony's customers would have been adversely affected (it's not like the judge didn't drop hints to them throughout).

The intentions Phil Spencer and the rest of Xbox upper management have regarding want to push PlayStation out of the market, and cut Sony off from having independent access to 3P publishers who are among their strongest partners, hasn't suddenly gone away or changed overnight. This deal with Sony for COD is out of pleasantry; they technically did not even have to make this deal and it would have changed nothing. Which is a reason why I don't feel a good number of the terms Sony have agreed to here are favorable for them, versus what they could've gotten say back in the middle of last year or last fall.

Will COD be console-exclusive to Xbox in the next five years? No. But it doesn't need to be in order to "spend Sony out of business", as it were. At some point MS being able to load all of these big games into a "cheap" subscription service like Game Pass Day 1, versus paying out $70 per game at release on a platform like PlayStation, is going to hurt the latter to where the former will just "feel" like an exclusive. Leveraging content like COD, Diablo, Overwatch, Fallout, DOOM, Crash etc. with notable MTX & DLC perks in Game Pass that may not be on PlayStation or other platforms, will collectively have the effect of just making COD a console exclusive.

This idea that Sony has no negotiating power is ludacris. Sony has the ability to point to how much revenue having Call of Duty brings in for Actvision. That’s not nothing. MS can afford and may choose to remove that revenue stream, but many people operate under this assumption that MS can just spend their way out of problems and take losses. MS has spent close to $75 billion in acquiring publishers. The shareholders are not going to just allow MS to invest into gaming if the game division doesn’t start showing record profits.

You guys think Microsoft cares about how much revenue PlayStation contributes to COD revenue? Who really has more to lose here? Microsoft, a company that doesn't even need gaming revenue nor profits whatsoever in order to continuously grow their market valuation? Or Sony, a company where gaming is roughly 1/4th of their total corporate revenue, arguably the strongest segment they have in terms of brand recognition, and where losing access to COD and maybe other ABK or Zenimax games would lead to a possible swath of Western casual & mainstream gamers picking up an Xbox over a PlayStation?

Remember, the oath Phil Spencer took in court does not bind Microsoft as a corporation. He can say one thing; Microsoft can "conveniently" arrive at the conclusion to do something else. I don't care what anyone tells me: Microsoft's true intentions WRT Sony were revealed in those redacted documents and as the years go on, they will find means to implement every single thing mentioned in there piece by piece, one at a time, in an attempt to break PlayStation down and push them out of the market. The means they've gone about to drum up public acceptance (and pressure) for this ABK acquisition was nastier than some of the recent Presidential campaigns, and that is saying a lot. Frighteningly more effective, too.

And like other leaked information has shown, Microsoft have models (and faith in such models) where they do not need PlayStation to grow revenue and profits in gaming, which FWIW, is not simply Xbox for Microsoft. One of the few truthful things they've said, is that this is a play for mobile. Mobile revenue and profits, especially if Apple & Google are forced to open up their walled gardens, would easily outstrip console revenue & profits for Microsoft with IP such as COD Warzone and Candy Crush, or a mobile port of Diablo IV or Overwatch 2 as yet another example. Yeah PlayStation revenue on top of that would be nice, but by that point, not a requirement.

And that's when the foreclosures on PlayStation would kick in :/

Case by case; They own the publishing.
This might light some fire under Sony's ass to revive killzone or Resistance. Literally anything but another Last of us remake

Why do people keep bringing up dead shooter IP like Resistance and Killzone? Those games won't do jack shit in comparison to losing priority access of COD, or especially COD altogether if MS foreclose it on PlayStation platforms down the line.
 
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Kokoloko85

Member
Case by case; They own the publishing.
This might light some fire under Sony's ass to revive killzone or Resistance. Literally anything but another Last of us remake
I doubt it does. Jim and Herman seem so out of touch.
TLOU2 Remaster was always expected. Just like Death Stranding, GOT, Spiderman. Tlou1 got a remaster a year later lol
 

Duchess

Member
This industry is getting too crazy for me. I'm glad I made the decision to move on from serious gaming after this generation was done, as it's only going to get weirder! :)
 

Kokoloko85

Member
Ehh.

Yeah. That's why they signed the deal they did not have to sign because no regulatory body in the entire world required them to sign a deal like this...
...makes 100% sense.

And once the deal has finished it will be a different story. Maybe a case by case for each ip but there will be games that dont make it to PS
 
Jimbo played this perfectly, forced them to make a 10- year deals after initially being offered nothing, then a 3 year deal, and now 10.

The future will be interesting, i have little hope it will be positive

Well we don’t know any of the deets yet for this deal (or maybe they have since come out) but if Jimbo wanted to play this perfectly he’d have accepted the offer from ABK to extend their current deal because that would have also prevented new CoD games from coming to GamePass for awhile after release.
 
"Keep" sounds a lot longer than "10"

It's likely not. Y'all keep forgetting; even the CMA outlined in their revised PF that full foreclosure (let alone partial foreclosure) of COD content on PlayStation would be "just fine". It was always about cloud for them, it can be argued.

And Sony's cloud service may not fall into the definition of a "cloud service" the way Boosteroid does, for example. Those are BYOG services where you're primarily buying them from Steam, something Microsoft probably doesn't consider a competing storefront (even if on PC it technically is). Sony doesn't have widespread streaming of PS5 versions of games, and Microsoft would obviously consider the PS store a direct competitor to their own Xbox storefront.

So I'm not 100% sure they would classify the PlayStation's cloud service as a "pure" provider since any PlayStation owner technically would get a copy of the game to run natively on the system itself and therefore the cloud version may be looked at as an "extended feature" of the regular version.

Absent the deal getting blocked, which they have no control over, they got a much better deal than if they had signed a year ago

In terms of number of years the game continues to come to their platform? Yeah. But I don't think it means a lot in regards to the terms they may have to pay to get certain privileges with the content, say like WRT cloud, and I don't think Sony would want to cut into B2P sales revenue with Day 1 PS+ access or even Day 1 cloud streaming of the game, either.

Plus they still have no control over Microsoft undercutting B2P sales revenue on PlayStation via Day 1 Game Pass access on Xbox and PC.

Well we don’t know any of the deets yet for this deal (or maybe they have since come out) but if Jimbo wanted to play this perfectly he’d have accepted the offer from ABK to extend their current deal because that would have also prevented new CoD games from coming to GamePass for awhile after release.

You hit the nail on the head, right here. Sony doesn't want anything that would undermine B2P sales revenue on PlayStation, that includes Day 1 Game Pass deals. They don't have leverage for that whatsoever with this Microsoft deal, but they would've if they did as you said, and renegotiated a new contract with ABK prior to this deal closing.

So I think in a way, Sony screwed this up.
 
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In terms of number of years the game continues to come to their platform? Yeah. But I don't think it means a lot in regards to the terms they may have to pay to get certain privileges with the content, say like WRT cloud, and I don't think Sony would want to cut into B2P sales revenue with Day 1 PS+ access or even Day 1 cloud streaming of the game, either.

Plus they still have no control over Microsoft undercutting B2P sales revenue on PlayStation via Day 1 Game Pass access on Xbox and PC.

They couldn’t have negotiated for any of those terms to begin with
 
Yet nobody has an issue when Sony try to do shit like keep FF off Xbox, or buy exclusive shit for Destiny.

The double standards some of you hold are beyond hard to believe

It’s always different when it’s Microsoft.

Also where exactly is the Xbox team supposed to get all the money it would take to compete with Sony on these deals?
 

tmlDan

Member
Well we don’t know any of the deets yet for this deal (or maybe they have since come out) but if Jimbo wanted to play this perfectly he’d have accepted the offer from ABK to extend their current deal because that would have also prevented new CoD games from coming to GamePass for awhile after release.
we'll never know until we see patterns, not like they're gonna release the details to the public
 
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Forsythia

Member
"We look forward to a future where players globally have more choice to play their favorite games."

Can I play Starfield on PS5 then, dear hypocrite Phil ?
The game isn't even out yet, how the fuck is Starfield your favourite game.

I get people not liking missing any previously thirdparty ip on their console of choice, but Starfield is a new ip.
 
They couldn’t have negotiated for any of those terms to begin with

They could have with what Bumblebeetuna Bumblebeetuna suggested. And I understand what you're saying WRT that costing Sony money, but the way I see it, Day 1 Game Pass for COD will cost Sony money as well.

I think depriving Microsoft of that marketing ability (both for marketing rights and locking out Day 1 Game Pass) for a few more years, up to say 2028, would have been better for Sony than what is most likely now happening with this current deal. It would have costed them money to do that deal, yes, but it'd of also prevented Microsoft from leveraging a key chess piece for another five years, meanwhile Sony could have also putting investments into their own GaaS AND other competing shooters like Battlefield to be firmly ready for next-gen when Microsoft would most likely foreclose COD on PlayStation platforms, as a play to jump off Xbox for 10th gen.

Instead they're now letting Microsoft have five years to basically associate COD with the Xbox brand and let that marinate with the gaming world, while Sony scrambles to cook up a competitor and work out something with other big shooters on their platform, on top of knowing that 70% of all COD revenue sales on their platform are going right back to Microsoft. That sounds like the worst of two scenarios IMO.
 
Yet nobody has an issue when Sony try to do shit like keep FF off Xbox, or buy exclusive shit for Destiny.

The double standards some of you hold are beyond hard to believe
And yet you guys had/have no problem when MS makes those same deals to keep games off of PS, so why even bring them up? It's only because MS stopped spending so much on getting all the big deals, mainly due to their own failings ruining their market share, that those deals became evil and some ridiculous justification for MS to attempt to buy up the majority of the market.

Every company makes exclusivity deals, and not just in the gaming industry. And MS still makes them to this day. Time to get over it.
 

ByWatterson

Member
Microsoft needs this deal more than Sony, honestly. They have to be able to sell COD everywhere or else they won't have the ability to recoup the investment. That's why Sony fought it so long - COD was going to be on Playstation regardless of what happened in court.

Additionally, everyone is acting like this is a loss for Sony, but these agreements only exist in the first place because Sony threw a fit. If Microsoft didn't have to appear magnanimous to regulators that Sony clearly stirred up, none of these agreements would have happened, and certainly not for ten-year periods.
 
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THE DUCK

voted poster of the decade by bots
It doesn't say for how long or for what games, but I assume it's 10 years and all the games.
Playing the long game. If it's shorter than 10 years that's interesting.
 
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