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[Tom Snows]

Sadly, his concerns are justified. Like some people here said, Gaffers aren't representative of the average person who plays games. I saw some comments on the YouTube video like "eww, who wants to play as a chick" and such.

I mean, when creating a character, like in Mass Effect or Diablo, I mostly choose males because I try to insert myself into the story (playing the game like I am the one in those situations, and not some made up persona). But that is in games that have character creation, where you are kind of supposed to try to replicate yourself (at least partially).

If the developer is trying to tell a specific story about a specific character, I don't care if it's a man or a woman, as long as it's well written. Playing as Ellie in TLoU was great, especially at that specific time of the story, it was really intense (I hope she's the main character in TLoU2, and the probabilities of that happening are pretty strong, I think).

On the other hand, truth be told, sexism in games doesn't really bother me much. I thought Lollipop Chainsaw was kind of funny, and Quiet's cleavage doesn't bother me at all (it's Kojima, what did you expect? Also, she used to be some dude named Chico who got a sex change, so it doesn't count).

As a conclusion: fuck focus groups, they ruin everything. How many shitty game covers did we have to suffer through because of them? How many COD clones were made? Dicks.

 

[privitsan02]

Shu was just talking about it with Greg and Colin. Told then he'd played it a few days ago. He talked about how they're waiting for the right time to rereveal it. It was the same language he used about TLG when explaining why they waited so long, so it seems pretty obvious (along with his no more big first party Vita games remark this week) that it's a PS4 exclusive now.

He obviously wants it to be successful and be a big title, so its a good thing he's waiting to announce it. TGS would be the perfect time to reveal it along with Monster Hunter 5 and Level 5's new IP with Sony for PS4.

Best wishes.

 

[SeanTSC]

Oh wow. That makes it all the more impressive with those amazing background visuals we saw.

http://www.twitch.tv/gametrailers/v/6288304

Starts at 6:51:15 if you want to watch it. They also note things like there's an Economy and stuff. And it goes into Dark Souls 3 after it.

 

[Dinda]

Ellie isn't the lead.

Soooon™

 

[amstradcpc]

I think she should be less chatty while hunting, but I think that was only due to devs wanting people know what was going on. Slight nuance is needed there, but I felt her talking was mostly harmless.

Yeah, we need diversity for characters in games. We get way too many white dudes doing all the cool shit. In the Souls series, I mainly make black women.

I like it, as I like it in Uncharted or in the W3. They should introduce a sound option to disable it, and everybody happy.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'm sure there are people out there who refuse to buy a game because the lead is a white male or simply male. Even in this thread, there are people who say playing as a male is boring. But I doubt there are many people doing purchases based on gender going by sales of the games I mentioned.

There's a difference between "Uggh, another male lead" and "I'm not buying this game because it has a female lead". Amir0x kinda summed it up

Here's the unfortunate truth, and why any business-man like Shu has to do it: sudies have been done time and time again that show such choices do impact the way people feel about characters, even if they are well designed. And that these things can often sell worse if they're not targeted properly. It's fucked up, immature... but it's the world we live in. I'm so glad this one made it through the filter, it's a remarkable design.

The question is if this is because of the way society has molded people, or if this is some innate quality humans sometimes can posses.

The good news is that they still went with the female lead and that the focus group this time didn't seem to have any issues with it. It's going to be a big budget open world ARPG on the most popular console this gen. If you've seen Yoshida talk about the game, like here for example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8hFUcMLrEY

Then you know that he's ridiculously excited about the game, so it's going to get a ton of marketing whenever it comes out.

 

[vypek]

The hell, did Sony just forget Ellie?

Haven't we proven already that female leads are viable?

It is unfortunate but I'm not sure if enough people are really ready to accept it and play games with female protagonists. The good news is that they seem to be becoming more viable as time passes (especially considering that studies show girls want more female protagonists and play games a lot as well).

 

[FZZ]

Protagonist was cooler than any male protagonist for dudebro games in the past 10 years

Also

Robot. Dinosaurs. The game is an instabuy.

 

[Endo Punk]

Glad they stuck with it. While the setting impresses me greatly if the main character would have been another grizzled white male character with dark hair I wouldn't have even bothered watching the whole reveal.

 

[Yurikerr]

I don't think the comparison to tomb raider is fair.

If you check the internet, Lara is much more remembered for being "Sexy", than for being a strong female caracter.

Sure, she's raiding tombs and dropping baddies (and tigers), but the popular gamer culture at most times just remember that she's wearing shorts.

 

[ckohler]

I don't remember this ever being an issue with the Tomb Raider franchise.

I don't think the comparison to tomb raider is fair.

If you check the internet, Lara is much more remembered for being "Sexy", than for being a strong female caracter.

While I don't agree, fine. Disregard Lara. How about Samus, Kat, Faith, Jade, or Lightning?

 

[SocksAndShoes]

Now we need a black female protagonist, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. Baby steps.

Do the new Michonne from Walking Dead episodes from TellTale count? Sadly that's the only one I could think of.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I didnt even notice that it was female. as long as gameplay matter i dont care who the protagonist is

 

[yagal]

Im curious, what exactly do you find boring while playing as a male character? Does it even matter in a game where you create your own voiceless avatar? (unless it's a game like Mass Effect, ofcourse)

I really don't know, but when i can i usually play a female ranged heroe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5s2V-K1vwE

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Gaffers aren't representative of the average person who plays games. I saw some comments on the YouTube video like "eww, who wants to play as a chick" and such.

I'd probably kill myself right now if I thought Youtube comments were representative of anything other than social recluses who use Youtube as a surrogate for people to actually converse with

 

[martino]

Kinda bizarre to read. What were they thinking would happen? People booing because there is a female lead? I'm not sure I quite get it.
What I am wondering is why she is CONSTANTLY talking to herself? No one does that. It looks stupid, breaks the immersion and is not helpful when you are HUNTING. lol

Because it's a succesfull thing done in uncharted.

 

[rokkerkory]

Why nervous? Just because protagonist is a female? It's 2015 geezus we are wayyy past that.

I love the fact that lead character is female, she looks awesome.

 

[Nirolak]

Financially speaking, Tomb Raider at over 8.5 million copies would be the biggest game with a mandatory female protagonist unless I'm forgetting something.

That only came out in March 2013 though.

Before then I think we have to go back a whiles until we find something with sales that would be considered major by today's standards.

I don't think it's shocking someone would want to do market research on this topic. I think it's actually a positive sign given that lots of publishers used to just always say no. These days way more seem willing to have them.

 

[paragonpro]

Unfortanutley it's the cross roads of business and art at its finest, I thinknits dumb that people wouldn't buy a title because of the gender of the protagonist, but the business reality is such that the gender of the protagonist is important to Publishers based on focus tests, which sucks, but I think games like horizon, tomb raider and rise of the tomb raider, and life is stranger are proving that that old stigma is going away.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

Financially speaking, Tomb Raider at over 8.5 million copies would be the biggest game with a mandatory female protagonist unless I'm forgetting something.

That only came out in March 2013 though..

Before then I think we have to go back a whiles until we find something with sales that would be considered major by today's standards.

I guess metroid prime games?

 

[dubq]

Why be nervous when that design has already been "focus tested" with internet nerds for a few years now?

Holy shit, I didn't even realize that..

 

[Nirolak]

I guess metroid prime games?

Those only did 1-2 million to my knowledge, which would be considered very low for 2015.

Tomb Raider in the PS1 days was also doing around 6-8 million though.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Financially speaking, Tomb Raider at over 8.5 million copies would be the biggest game with a mandatory female protagonist unless I'm forgetting something.

The portal series done okay critically and commercially.
The franchise has both protagonist and antagonist as (nominally?) female too, which is even more unusual.

 

[Mononoke]

Financially speaking, Tomb Raider at over 8.5 million copies would be the biggest game with a mandatory female protagonist unless I'm forgetting something.

That only came out in March 2013 though..

Before then I think we have to go back a whiles until we find something with sales that would be considered major by today's standards.

Tomb Raider is an established franchise and Lara is iconic, is what I would imagine some would argue.

The game itself reviewed well and had great marketing (minus all the PR blunders). So the reboot had that going for it (it being a good game). What I want to know is, why did Tomb Raider games sell so well back in the PS1 era, if the narrative is pushed that marketing research shows most males supposedly won't play a female lead game? Why did she become iconic? Why did those games sell?

Edit: some are bringing up the fact that Lara was heavily marketed as a sex symbol.

 

[shandy706]

I figured they were inspired by this..

Thought the choice was awesome!

 

[ANDS]

Reflecting the real world isn't "social engineering". We don't live in the 1950s and there are female frontline military troops.

If any social engineering is going on it's the people claiming that "the market can't take female protagonists" when even fucking comic books can find success doing that.

"Reflecting the real world" has nothing to do with my statement. The post I replied to made the indirect suggestion that video game corporations needed to "grow up" and by extension so does the fan base.

Once again, Yoshida really worries me as head of software. He has a lack of balls and routinely makes kinda really bad decisions (Demon's Souls). Heres another example of him not having his finger on the pulse of the 2014-15 zeitgeist.

I feel like Sony software succeeds in spite of him rather than thanks to.

So Shu is terrible based on one decision that was bad in HINDSIGHT only? Ok.

Why nervous? Just because protagonist is a female? It's 2015 geezus we are wayyy past that.

I love the fact that lead character is female, she looks awesome.

We're not past it, at least not the sub-population of gamers who also frequently post on the internet. Negative internet buzz can kill a potential franchise just as easily as terrible sales.

 

[KiefbladeMaster]

Who wouldn't want to play as that lady? She looks savage. Plus, there are robodino's.

 

[mysteriousmage09]

http://www.twitch.tv/gametrailers/v/6288304

Starts at 6:51:15 if you want to watch it. They also note things like there's an Economy and stuff. And it goes into Dark Souls 3 after it.

God damn that sounds good. Really good.

 

[Ragnorok64]

I suppose it reinforces to me that relying too heavily on focus testing to design your character leads to a bland design.

 

[vypek]

Tomb Raider is an established franchise and Lara is iconic, is what I would imagine some would argue.

The game itself reviewed well and had great marketing (minus all the PR blunders). What I want to know is, why did Tomb Raider games sell so well back in the PS1 era, if the narrative is pushed that marketing shows most males won't play a female lead game. Why did she become iconic?

Maybe her original design appealed? I'd like to think that people really enjoyed the games for what they were though

I figured they were inspired by this..

Thought the choice was awesome!

What are these from?

EDIT: NVM. It is in the file names. lol

 

[10k]

Why be nervous when that design has already been "focus tested" with internet nerds for a few years now?

"You know nothing, Shuhei Yoshida"

 

[ilium]

What I want to know is, why did Tomb Raider games sell so well back in the PS1 era, if the narrative is pushed that marketing shows most males won't play a female lead game. Why did she become iconic?

Because she was a sex symbol back then.

 

[Garlador]

Be proud, Guerrilla Games. It's my personal game of the entire show.

And this was a show that included everything from The Last Guardian to Final Fantasy 7 to Kingdom Hearts to Fallout 4 to Shenmue III and beyond.

 

[Tom Snows]

I don't think the comparison to tomb raider is fair.

If you check the internet, Lara is much more remembered for being "Sexy", than for being a strong female caracter.

Sure, she's raiding tombs and dropping baddies (and tigers), but the popular gamer culture at most times just remember that she's wearing shorts.

Yeah. I mean, the whole concept of the Tomb Raider movies was based around the one thing the general public knew about Tomb Raider (other than the fact that it involved raiding tombs): Lara Croft had some tig old bitties. Angelina's rack was the most prominent thing in the movie posters.

 

[The Lamp]

I don't get the outrage about that post. Plenty of people make the argument that more women would play video games if there were more women main characters, implying that they are turned off by male main characters, but someone saying the reverse, a male being turned off by a female main character, is crazy?

The reasons were stupid and sexist. He said he can't feel empowered unless he plays as a male.

Yup and I'm one of them. Nothing against females. I love them and respect them. I have the best girlfriend in the world and I treat her like a princess. But playing as one in a video game I cannot.

I just cannot enjoy it and immerse my self into the world. As with most high testosterone males we want to come home from a long day at work and put on a video game and feel empowered for a short while. I just cant do that when playing as chick with big tits and vagina.

only exception is Ellie from Last of US. and I have no idea why it didn't bother me with her.

I realize I'm going to get a lot of hate for his post and probably get banned from GAF but just wanted to be honest.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=168536683&postcount=2375

So I'm not surprised Sony was scared when people like this exist.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Yoshida is wrong, I think. Maybe some sales will suffer based on this alone, but I think they'll earn some sales off the female lead alone too.

Huh?

He approved the game. It is being made. To say he is wrong is to say he shouldn't have approved of it...

Now if you meant you think he *WAS* wrong for being nervous about it *previously*, then that's different. But the fact that he gave it a chance and then approved means he gets it, and its a good thing. He should be commended for evolving on his past worries.

 

[Spaced Harrier]

Yoshida was still a bit nervous about the game's first broad unveiling

Dat gendered language yosp.

 

[Nirolak]

The portal series done okay critically and commercially.
The franchise has both protagonist and antagonist as (nominally?) female too, which is even more unusual.

Yes, that's true. She's less apparent given that she doesn't talk, but Portal 2 did something in the range of 4+ million copies, which is definitely workable in 2015.

Tomb Raider is an established franchise and Lara is iconic, is what I would imagine some would argue.

The game itself reviewed well and had great marketing (minus all the PR blunders). What I want to know is, why did Tomb Raider games sell so well back in the PS1 era, if the narrative is pushed that marketing shows most males won't play a female lead game. Why did she become iconic?

Honestly I think female lead characters were never actually a huge sales barrier, and Tomb Raider was a high quality, technically impressive, and massively marketed video game, so it sold well.

Back then there were way more teenagers and kids playing games, so people were especially worried about gender stereotypes, but we see the same thing happening today with Toys to Life where the publishers talk about how they were baffled about how many girls play the games and how the boys are fine using female characters.

 

[Caayn]

Glad they didn't decide to make her a man. She looks great as she is now, looks like a strong woman without looking like the stereotype "muscled" woman or showing too much skin.

 

[Methamatics101]

Glad they stuck with it. While the setting impresses me greatly if the main character would have been another grizzled white male character with dark hair I wouldn't have even bothered watching the whole reveal.

My sentiments exactly. Aloy is fucking cool. The game wouldn't have caught my attention the same way if it the protagonist would've been another white and dark haired character trying to cater to the dudebro crowd.

 

[Skux]

What I want to know is, why did Tomb Raider games sell so well back in the PS1 era, if the narrative is pushed that marketing research shows most males supposedly won't play a female lead game? Why did she become iconic? Why did those games sell?

Sex appeal, mainly.

 

[Dinda]

Thinking about it, I wonder if the leaks of the game actually helped them a bit with the right decision here. I mean we did know for like a year that it will have a female protag. So they already knew they couldn't change it (within the last year at least) without a lot of questions being asked from the better informed media (as if..) and fans.

Maybe they even were the focus test! Just release a bit of Info and a few artworks and see what the reactions of the forums will be!

 

[Amir0x]

Her face deffinately struck me. Its a wider set face, bigger jaw, real eyebrows, a bit of a larger brow and nose. It is deffinately less delicate than you typically see on a female character design. I like it, and I think it is really convincing for the role.

Yes, I must admit I'm glad that some developers are finally realizing that "delicate" is not necessarily an innate quality of all females (or even most!)

 

[SolidSnakex]

I guess metroid prime games?

The lifetime sales for every Metroid game is 13.84m.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Because she was a sex symbol back then.

Yet

flopped.

Being a good game is vastly more likely to translate into sales than whether the main character has an X or Y chromosome or not.

 

[CmdBash]

Why are people so mad that sony was nervous and had to focus test the protagonist? A lot of money rides on a big budget game such as horizon. I don't think stakeholders would be very impressed if they didn't do research on all the variables in a game to ensure good sales.

 

[RMI]

She feels very much like a real looking woman. She has a more normal look to the fantastical designs of other females in games. I find that very appealing.

agreed. I think she looks great. It's a refreshing design.

 

[Zukuu]

Yes, I must admit I'm glad that some developers are finally realizing that "delicate" is not necessarily an innate quality of all females (or even most!)

Seems Square still thinks so... STELLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :'(

 

[Hrothgar]

Seems Square still thinks so... STELLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA :'(

Well, they are publishing Life is Strange.

 

[LogicStep]

I feel sorry for all the people that take issue with playing female characters or characters of another race. Such a stupid thing to be concerned about.