• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Study: Patients 45% more likely to die in UK hospitals than in US hospitals

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

ccbfan

Member
Vane_MagicCity said:
Well, in the US if you are poor then you can't afford to die in a hospital. In fact, you probably didn't get much in the way of health care leading up to death. I wonder how many of the 99% are too poor to get health care in the US.
Click to expand...

Actual poor people get everything free in the U.S.

Free healthcare, free child care, free food, free housing, free college, ect. Its the middle class that gets screwed over.
 
W

WARCOCK

Banned
J-Rod said:
This feels like a repeat of the hidden camera thread in the way people are choosing to interpret it.

The elderly in the US have socialized medical insurance.
Click to expand...

It's not fucking socialized in any way, shape or form. It's an insurance co-op set up by the government. The government does not employ healthcare employees that provide treatment within the scope of medicare. But instead acts as a third party payer, JUST LIKE PRIVATE FREE MARKET INSURANCE COMPANIES! Stupid dumbshit republican propaganda. They also have to pay premiums and have deductibles!
 
J

J-Rod

Member
WARCOCK said:
It's not fucking socialized in any way, shape or form. It's an insurance co-op set up by the government. The government does not employ healthcare employees that provide treatment within the scope of medicare. But instead acts as a third party payer, JUST LIKE PRIVATE FREE MARKET INSURANCE COMPANIES! Stupid dumbshit republican propaganda.
Click to expand...

Whoa, no need to get pissed off. I'm just going by Wikipedia's word.
 
D

Dougald

Member
It's not really an apt comparison as more people are likely to go to (and thus die in) a hospital which is free at the point of entry than one which requires expensive insurance.
 
U

User 100115

Banned
Yeah, I am pretty sure that is going to end up being because people actually go to hospital in the UK, or stay there to die, versus not going/going home because of cost in the US.
 
T

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
JordanKZ said:
Aaannd what about all the US citizens that die at home because they can't afford to go to hospital? I should suspect that'll bring the figures down...
Click to expand...

Bingo.
A much better metric is the percentage of people who die of treatable illnesses. Basically every country with universal healthcare does better than the US there.
 
B

Billen

Banned
Vane_MagicCity said:
Well, in the US if you are poor then you can't afford to die in a hospital. In fact, you probably didn't get much in the way of health care leading up to death. I wonder how many of the 99% are too poor to get health care in the US.
Click to expand...

My first thought as well, who pays for tye dying there?
 
S

Showaddy

Member
Got to say as someone who's had more than their fair share of accidents I'd trust the NHS to save my life but I wouldn't trust them to care for me properly long term. The wards feel more like care homes for the slowly dying elderly than an actual hospital.
 
A

Atrophis

Member
Showaddy said:
Got to say as someone who's had more than their fair share of accidents I'd trust the NHS to save my life but I wouldn't trust them to care for me properly long term. The wards feel more like care homes for the slowly dying elderly than an actual hospital.
Click to expand...

It's been taking care of me for 30 years and its done a pretty bang up job. Never forked over a penny for multiple operations, years of physiotherapy or prescriptions. If I was born and raised in the US my parents would be bankrupt.
 
D

Damaniel

Banned
ccbfan said:
Actual poor people get everything free in the U.S.

Free healthcare, free child care, free food, free housing, free college, ect. Its the middle class that gets screwed over.
Click to expand...

If the poor have it so great, I'm sure you'd be glad to swap places with one of them. I mean, they get everything for free, get to live off the government teat, and don't have a single care in the world.

HINT: You wouldn't want to, and neither would I. Being poor isn't the gravy train that conservative types like to claim it is, otherwise nobody would work and we'd all go live on the dole.
 
A

Aylinato

Member
ccbfan said:
Actual poor people get everything free in the U.S.

Free healthcare, free child care, free food, free housing, free college, ect. Its the middle class that gets screwed over.
Click to expand...


Where's my free healthcare, my free food, my free housing, and my free college???

O, that's right...because that's completely made up.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
zero shift said:
Even the libertarians in this thread are laughing at this "study".
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just wanted to apologise for posting this without doing some additional checking. C4 news are normally pretty reliable and have broken some pretty interesting stories (like the Amazon working conditions story some time ago and I thought this was another one fo those) but they seem to have messed up pretty bad here.

Anyway, apologies again for posting what has turned out to be a pretty flawed study.
 
K

kortez320

Member
It's clear who lives in the US and who doesn't by the people saying that only the rich can afford to go to hospitals in the US. People literally have no clue.

Someone else posted a stat about how you are more likely to die in Hospice care in the US. lol I'm not sure whether this is made up or just a complete misunderstanding of what Hospice actually is but it was just about as funny as the first statement.

Don't get me wrong either I'm not saying everything is great healthcare wise in the US but there is some extremely odd statements in this thread.
 
M

Marty Chinn

Member
kortez320 said:
It's clear who lives in the US and who doesn't by the people saying that only the rich can afford to go to hospitals in the US. People literally have no clue.

Someone else posted a stat about how you are more likely to die in Hospice care in the US. lol I'm not sure whether this is made up or just a complete misunderstanding of what Hospice actually is but it was just about as funny as the first statement.

Don't get me wrong either I'm not saying everything is great healthcare wise in the US but there is some extremely odd statements in this thread.
Click to expand...

Ya it's funny to hear people saying that when the common discussion is one of the reasons health care costs are so high is because people of lower income are going to hospitals but are unable to pay for the service they get and everyone else ends up paying for it.
 
T

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
kortez320 said:
It's clear who lives in the US and who doesn't by the people saying that only the rich can afford to go to hospitals in the US. People literally have no clue.
Click to expand...

There's a lot more to health care than the ER.
And while they'll treat anyone there, you'll also being accruing massive debt.
 
K

ksan

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
Yeah, I just wanted to apologise for posting this without doing some additional checking. C4 news are normally pretty reliable and have broken some pretty interesting stories (like the Amazon working conditions story some time ago and I thought this was another one fo those) but they seem to have messed up pretty bad here.

Anyway, apologies again for posting what has turned out to be a pretty flawed study.
Click to expand...

Wrong way to look at it, there was a lot to be learned about flawed studies here. :p
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
Looking at the data 18% of Brits died at home: http://www.*****************/news/a...-homes-figures-reach-highest-level-years.html (EDIT - Its the dailymail)

Lets compare this to the United States where its 25%: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/facing-death/facts-and-figures/

This is a 39% difference. So already you have most of that 45% gap filled. This also doesn't take into an account of the hospice death rates. And the United Kingdom was by far the worst of the seven countries with a national health system compared? All this shows is how terrible the United State's healthcare system.

EDIT - The Daily Mail is banned?
I can find another link if somebody wants.

EDIT 2 - BBC. This says its actually 17% (even lower), but its from 2010 not 2004. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-11742166

kortez320 said:
It's clear who lives in the US and who doesn't by the people saying that only the rich can afford to go to hospitals in the US. People literally have no clue..
Click to expand...
Or maybe you don't? I mean the people who are posting that aren't Europeans, but Americans. Yeah you can get care but if you often want all the stuff they want recommended you are going to have to pay a lot more. Checkups are affodable but if you need something done and want it done right its going to cost you. Yes there is some hyperbolee but getting good healthcare in the United States is an obstacle for many.
 
J

Javaman

Member
kirblar said:
Reducing spread of infectious disease in hospitals through better practices is something that's getting a lot more attention nowadays. One example that came up in my health economics class - there was a relatively new hospital where the designers had put a wall fountain/waterfall in the entrance. As pretty as it was, though, it turned out that it quickly turned into a cesspool of disease because it was essentially a stagnant pond in the middle of a bunch of sick people.
Click to expand...

Couldn't they just run the water through a UV/filter? It wouldn't cost much.
 
V

VanquishUK

Member
Kinda strange to compare something that costs tens of thousands of dollars to something that pretty much costs nothing.

EDIT: Have I missed something?
 
K

kortez320

Member
Looking at the data 18% of Brits died at home: http://www.*****************/news/ar...vel-years.html (EDIT - Its the dailymail)

Lets compare this to the United States where its 25%: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...s-and-figures/

This is a 39% difference. So already you have most of that 45% gap filled. This also doesn't take into an account of the hospice death rates. And the United Kingdom was by far the worst of the seven countries with a national health system compared? All this shows is how terrible the United State's healthcare system.
Click to expand...


What do Hospice death rates prove? Or even deaths at home? It's useless information without context. Hospice is designed so that you can die at home. I mean there are certainly hospice units in hospitals but a large portion of people elect to do it at home. My 17 year old sister among them. She went through several brain surgeries at hopkins before it happened. All off an elementary school teachers health insurance plan.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
kortez320 said:
What do Hospice death rates prove? Or even deaths at home? It's useless information without context. Hospice is designed so that you can die at home. I mean there are certainly hospice units in hospitals but a large portion of people elect to do it at home. My 17 year old sister among them. She went through several brain surgeries at hopkins before it happened. All off an elementary school teachers health insurance plan.
Click to expand...
I guess that's true but the home death point still stands.
 
K

kortez320

Member
zero shift said:
I guess that's true but the home death point still stands.
Click to expand...

My point is just that the badness of the American health system is horribly overrstated.

Yes it sucks being uninsured. It leads to financial ruin. It can lead to dying earlier then you should. For those 15% or so it's an awful thing that needs to be fixed.

The other side of the coin is that my mother an elementary school teacher was able to have her terminally ill child have millions of dollars worth of treatments at a top 5 hospital in the world with no real out of pocket expenses.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
kortez320 said:
My point is just that the badness of the American health system is horribly overrstated.

Yes it sucks being uninsured. It leads to financial ruin. It can lead to dying earlier then you should. For those 15% or so it's an awful thing that needs to be fixed.

The other side of the coin is that my mother an elementary school teacher was able to have her terminally ill child have millions of dollars worth of treatments at a top 5 hospital in the world with no real out of pocket expenses.
Click to expand...
Except that an overwhelming majority of people don't get to put their children in the top 5 hospitals in the world.
American health care sucks for a majority of Americans.
 
W

WARCOCK

Banned
kortez320 said:
My point is just that the badness of the American health system is horribly overrstated.

Yes it sucks being uninsured. It leads to financial ruin. It can lead to dying earlier then you should. For those 15% or so it's an awful thing that needs to be fixed.

The other side of the coin is that my mother an elementary school teacher was able to have her terminally ill child have millions of dollars worth of treatments at a top 5 hospital in the world with no real out of pocket expenses.
Click to expand...

Considering how much the healthcare system costs versus other first world countries proportionate to each person, it's fucking disastrously inefficient on top of your 15% SUX TO BE POOR which i won't even bother verifying its accuracy. If this shit was fixed we would have no deficit. None.
 
K

kortez320

Member
zero shift said:
Except that an overwhelming majority of people don't get to put their children in the top 5 hospitals in the world.
American health care sucks for a majority of Americans.
Click to expand...

No we were lucky that we lived close. But most (80+%) have acess to the exact same treatments and surgeries.

Point is simply that being rich is clearly not a prerequisite for receiving care in this country.

Don't really know what else to say. It's just not true.

Considering how much the healthcare system costs versus other first world countries proportionate to each person, it's fucking disastrously inefficient on top of your 15% SUX TO BE POOR which i won't even bother verifying its accuracy. If this shit was fixed we would have no deficit. None.
Click to expand...

Not that hard to find.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_insurance_coverage_in_the_United_States
 
F

Foffy

Banned
I thought this would be taking into account that US citizens go almost as a last resort to hospitals, so they don't even make the trip. ):
 
K

Keio

For a Finer World
I find "not dying" such a weird measure too. My grand aunt was kept alive for five years as a practical vegetable, just rolled around in bed and injected with vaccines and antibiotics.

Sure wasn't life, but she didn't day. Yay one for these meaningless statistics!
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
AbortedWalrusFetus said:
It doesn't matter if more people visit the hospital in the UK or not. These ratios are probably based on the percentages of survival of given illnesses and ages. Meaning it doesn't matter if 100 or 1000 people check in. If 10% survive in either case the volume doesn't necessarily matter (unless it's not statistically significant).
Click to expand...

This. It would have been a completely useless study if they didn't correct for the number of people actually going to the hospital.
 
D

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
BruiserBear said:
There is a reason so many foreign officials come to the U.S for serious medical care.

I remember hearing a few years ago about a high ranking Canadian minster coming to the U.S for a heart surgery. They've got free health care up there, but the guy wanted to leave the country to get this surgery done. Very telling.
Click to expand...

Well, it could mean that the care is better in American hospitals, or the guy had too much money and not enough brains. So not very telling at all (the truth is the latter).

Amazing article, BTW. I'm glad they focused on the pianos in the foyer and the works of art on the walls. I'm sure that has something to do with it.
 
U

User 100115

Banned
The Lamp said:
A hospital won't turn you away if you call 911 and need emergency medical attention.
Click to expand...

That doesn't mean you aren't left with crippling bills after it's over.

And that's just for emergency care.

I personally know people who have driven themselves to the hospital during a heart attack because they can't afford an ambulance.

That's the sort of mentality less well off people have in America.
 
S

Showaddy

Member
Atrophis said:
It's been taking care of me for 30 years and its done a pretty bang up job. Never forked over a penny for multiple operations, years of physiotherapy or prescriptions. If I was born and raised in the US my parents would be bankrupt.
Click to expand...

While I'll agree on operations & prescriptions, physiotherapy under the NHS is absolutely shocking. 1 month waiting times at best in London even if the eventual service is good, Iv'e have to do it privately multiple times because I couldn't afford to be stuck in bed for weeks on end.
 
D

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
Madness said:
As someone who's used both Canadian and American hospitals/health care, give me the US anyday.

If you have insurance, there is no better medical treatment.

Plus, it's not even that Canadian healthcare is free either, you still have to pay to have better coverage.

Had to wait 5 months for an MRI for my knee in BC, something that was done in two days in Washington state.
Click to expand...
And pray tell what happened after it took you only two days to get this critically important, limb-saving diagnostic test?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • Locked
Doctors on a leading "transgender healthcare body" have admitted that patients have developed cancer + more
2
51
4K
Embearded replied
[Reuters] More than a billion people worldwide are obese, WHO study finds
News 2 3
125
4K
Mistake replied
The Ability to See the World at a Higher 'Frame Rate' Could Give Some Gamers an Edge, study
2
54
3K
nkarafo replied
Excess weight, obesity more deadly than previously believed
2 3
131
8K
StreetsofBeige replied
  • Locked
So, I've been pondering over this for a bit. Do you think US Football being our dominant sport is why we have so much gun violence?
Social Opinion
24
2K
AJUMP23 replied
Top Bottom