benicillin
Banned
I don't think the fact that it's unusual means that sites should run stories without getting comment from Take-Two first. It's kind of irresponsible to just link to the Reddit post and take everything they said at face value.
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Take-Two sends private investigators to GTAV modder's home asking to shut down mod
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
I don't think the fact that it's unusual means that sites should run stories without getting comment from Take-Two first. It's kind of irresponsible to just link to the Reddit post and take everything they said at face value.
FlammableAce
Member
When you link your steam account to your rockstar account it is linked for good and because rockstar single player games still require you to log in to social club to play them once your are banned from social club you no longer get to play your games.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
All they need to add is an "allegedly" somewhere in the article.
That's fucked up.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
.
I think it's better that they ask the modders to knock it off before going with C&D letters and or lawsuits.
Also, if you think T2 weren't going to be upset with people messing around with their cash cow then I'd say they are delusional. Even if you get R*'s permission they are owned by T2 and to be safe you probably want permission from both before starting such a project.
I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse, or just incredibly naive.
What if we set up a private server so we can circumvent the monthly fees on World of Warcraft? What about if we set up a private server so we can get all Destiny paid add-ons for free? What about if we set up a private server for FIFA 16 so we can get all the great players in the Ultimate Team mode?
Get real, m8.
They most likely did that at first, sending these private investigators was probably the only viable method for communicating with them.
I guess that´s what happens when you ignore emails, phone calls and cease and desist letters? But of course that doesn't fit their (modders/ GAF posters) narrative.
Great PR stunt anyway.
Companies can take a long time to comment on these matters, if they do at all. In the mean time, their competitor is running the story anway. So I understand them asking T2 for a statement but not waiting for them to actually deliver said statement before publishing. After all, the news is already out there (on Reddit and the GTA:MP site) anyway.
The media should absolutely not take this at face value. Even though we know pretty much for certain that these are the actual mod devs making the claims, there is no way to check the story. Thus, headlines should say "X says Y" and not "Y happened to X". Basic journalism. Looking at you as well, OP.
EDIT: also the IRC log doesn't really add anything from our perspective. Still not proof, but thanks for posting anyway.
Companies can take a long time to comment on these matters, if they do at all. In the mean time, their competitor is running the story anway. So I understand them asking T2 for a statement but not waiting for them to actually deliver said statement before publishing. After all, the news is already out there (on Reddit and the GTA:MP site) anyway.
The media should absolutely not take this at face value. Even though we know pretty much for certain that these are the actual mod devs making the claims, there is no way to check the story. Thus, headlines should say "X says Y" and not "Y happened to X". Basic journalism. Looking at you as well, OP.
EDIT: also the IRC log doesn't really add anything from our perspective. Still not proof, but thanks for posting anyway.
Setting aside any personal opinions about the events that did or didn't actually take place, the amount of journalistic failure in this article is depressing.
I'll never understand why anyone reads this tripe.
Netherscourge
Banned
Seriously.
Give them the finger and slam the door in their face.
If they persist, grab your shotgun and say, "GET OFF MY LAWN," in your best Clint Eastwood voice.
FlammableAce
Member
Well you know, GTA Online is free to play, they have NO paid addons in GTA Online. I wouldn't see anything wrong with someone having the best Ultimate Team players as they will only have them on their own PRIVATE SERVER, they wouldn't be-able to take them into regular servers so whats the problem? your argument doesn't work.
These multiplayer modes where completely separate from GTA ONLINE.
TimFL
Member
Yes they were completely separate. They take away active players from the main thing (GTA:O), less players that spend their hard earned money on ca$h card$?
I disagree. Let's look at the article in the OP from Eurogamer. Here's the headline.
Eurogamer said:
They use the word 'report' but we don't know just from looking at the headline whether this report comes from a Eurogamer editor (trustworthy) or a different party (meh). To be fair, in the first paragraph they say this.
Eurogamer said:
So I'm gonna say they could have worded this more clearly in the headline, but overall they're good. Also, they've contacted R* and T2 for comment. Points for that.
Next up, Gamespot.
Gamespot said:
No need to look any further than the headline. This site is not presenting it as a fact. They too have contacted the companies for comment.
PC Gamer.
PC Gamer said:
Again, no need to look further than the headline: they know you can't present this story as a fact right now. Also, they reached out to Rockstar for comment.
VG27/7.
VG24/7 said:
This site, the last of the examples I could find, also put it right in the headline. They don't write that they've contacted the companies for comment.
Two non-gaming-specific websites, Techspot and Ars Technica UK, both presented a nuanced version of the story as well, just like the gaming media above have.
Gaming news websites IGN, Blue's News, Kotaku, Polygon and RockPaperShotgun do not have the story at the moment.
Google News tells me of two media that present the story as fact in their headline: KitGuru ("Take Two sent private investigators to a GTA V modder’s house") and Metro UK ("GTA Online modders targeted by Take-Two private investigators"). And to be fair, neither of these are gaming-specific media and thus are hardly relevant to NeoGAF. Nonetheless, they are doing it wrong.
Honestly, I feel like hating on journalists in this case just isn't justified, man. The vast majority of internet media present this as what it is: a serious, but unconfirmed report. What we're seeing here is that the audience quickly scans the article and simply misses the part where media say this, at least for the moment, is not a confirmed fact. One guy (OP) tells people he knows (GAF) about it, and the story leads its own life from there. Take-Two is being vilified because we don't stop to really read the articles. What if they made this shit up? Then we're all assholes, that's what. A lie will be halfway around the world before the truth can put its pants on, yet again.
So should the media hold the reader's hand and start such articles with a bolded section that says "HEY MAN, THIS SHIT ISN'T CONFIRMED YET. THAT'S IN THE HEADLINE AND THE ARTICLE BUT WE'RE JUST MAKING SURE YOU GOT THE MESSAGE. UNCONFIRMED. K?" Or should we just read the article more carefully before we type in our thread title? I'm definitely going with the latter.
benicillin
Banned
I think the problem with the articles is that they're reporting on them in the first place with little to no information. It doesn't even sound like they actually talked to the people, just used the Reddit quotes as direct sources. It's kinda lazy. If they actually talked to the people or got a new comment then I'd be more forgiving.
Even though they're presenting it as "hey this might be a rumor or this allegedly happened" it's still lame to just quote Reddit posts made without actually talking to the person at all.
Going off of one guy's report on Reddit is indeed very thin. Though when two modders tell the same story, it's getting there. I think the problem is that the story reached a point where it was fit for publishing. That point was when the GTA:MP guys joined the FiveM guy in claiming a visit from PIs. Sure, you can ask for proof and an opinion from the modders, but in the mean time your competitor is going ahead and publishing without that. So what do you do? Ask the modders for proof, ask them for further comment, ask R* and T2 for comment. But don't wait for any replies: just publish right away. Who knows how long those parties will take to reply. If you wait, then there go your clicks, and your income with it. The internet moves too fast for these things. That's why using words like 'allegedly' and 'unconfirmed' are so important.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Really classy T2 .
See what I mean?
benicillin
Banned
I don't need an explanation of how it works, trust me I understand those things. I just think that the lack of direct comment from the modders or any new information is indicative of lazy "journalism." If your only source is a Reddit post and you haven't actually spoken to the people in question, even over DM or anything, to get new quotes or more information then what is the point of you even writing that article? To get clicks? Okay that's great but you're still doing crap work if you're just taking a Reddit post and turning it into an article.
The two reports together are article-worthy and the reason to write the article is because your target audience A) does not know these things yet and B) would want/need to know them. What more is there? Like I said, those additional comments take time and that eats up your ad revenue. Ask for additional comment, but publish right away.
benicillin
Banned
That is such a bad policy. You should never write an article without actually speaking to someone. But we're getting away from the thread topic here so w/e
GeordieMark
Member
It is a company run almost entirely by lawyers, where everything goes through legal. Not surprised they pull stuff like this. They are ridiculously protective of their IP.
I would do the same if I was the dude with the big cojones at TT.
It's flattering that someone loves your work so much that they even work on it themselves. It's not ok when they start affecting your wallet by doing that.
These modders can develop something original instead and start their own IP and company, so they can understand the other side of the business.
It's flattering that someone loves your work so much that they even work on it themselves. It's not ok when they start affecting your wallet by doing that.
These modders can develop something original instead and start their own IP and company, so they can understand the other side of the business.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Hahaha, I would love to see that happen in Stand Your Ground states.
To protect the microtransactions GTA5 makes.
In any case, unless the code has something of Rockstars in it, they can go piss up a tree. There's nothing he's doing that is breaking the law.
I don't see why. If Apple's Tim Cook holds a press conference and announces some news, you wouldn't write an article about it unless you could actually communicate with him one on one? I'm not saying there's zero value in talking to a source yourself, but I am saying you can publish without it.
MikeE21286
Member
What was the mod
Dick Justice
Banned
Don't play WOW, so I'm not particularly aware of the intricacies of that system. But this isn't a monthly subscription system, so the comparisons are laughable.
Also, you aren't getting items that you couldn't otherwise get like with the Destiny comparison. It's still possible to get expensive cars and stuff in GTA Online, problem is the ridiculous grind. Come up with some better comparisons please, "m8".
Piracy is essentially the theft of a piece of software. Creating an alternative gameplay mode is not piracy. Stop being obtuse m8.
Anyway, keep fighting the good corporate fight, I'm sure you're the kind of nutter who loves all those microtransactions and season passes and broken ports, and uses the term "entitled" a lot. Or you're just an obtuse fanboy. Ignored
Rudimental
Member
Considering how well 'an ip address is a person' went, I expect a lot of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9twTtXkQNA
benicillin
Banned
Tim Cook and an official Apple press release =/= some multiplayer modders on the Internet.
RichiRamjag
Member
There are microtransactions and take two makes a lot of money off of those. They don't want people on gta online not on their servers spending money. Simple as that. In any case, it's their assets, their game, their choice.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Didn't Blizzard do this (not send PI's but try to shut down) in the Diablo 2 days when modders were making the Open BNet?
Then explain to me exactly what the relevant difference between the two is. I don't have to talk to Tim Cook, but I do have to talk to these two modders. Why?
outunderthestars
Banned
So much hyperbole in a single post.
Thebeardofknowledge
Banned
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He is not wrong, this is not the first time corporations sent people to rattle citizens.
Corporate Utility, got to protect the status quo:
Family Raided by SWAT and their Dog Shot, for Being Unable to Pay Utility Bill
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/family-raided-swat-dog-shot-unable-pay-utility-bill/
https://www.organicconsumers.org/old_articles/monsanto/bigbeans022602.php
http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/17/business/la-fi-lazarus-20140218
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item...s_is_a_corporate_client_getting_what_20150607
So it is not unheard of for corporations to strong-arm people.
Crazyorloco
Member
what happened to emailing and calling people first.
Visualante2
Member
Pissing on their biggest fans.
exclusive footage
lmao
Don't play WOW, so I'm not particularly aware of the intricacies of that system. But this isn't a monthly subscription system, so the comparisons are laughable.
Also, you aren't getting items that you couldn't otherwise get like with the Destiny comparison. It's still possible to get expensive cars and stuff in GTA Online, problem is the ridiculous grind. Come up with some better comparisons please, "m8".
Piracy is essentially the theft of a piece of software. Creating an alternative gameplay mode is not piracy. Stop being obtuse m8.
Anyway, keep fighting the good corporate fight, I'm sure you're the kind of nutter who loves all those microtransactions and season passes and broken ports, and uses the term "entitled" a lot. Or you're just an obtuse fanboy. Ignored
It's a perfectly valid comparison, Dick. I'll make it easy for you to understand, Dick.
WOW monthly subscription, Destiny paid add-ons, and FIFA UT pack/ coins are sources of revenue. And the only source of revenue for GTA Online are Cash Cards ("they have kept GTA Online DLC free").
Less players, less money. No players, no money.
Anyway, keep fighting the good corporate fight, I'm sure you're the kind of nutter who loves all those microtransactions and season passes and broken ports, and uses the term "entitled" a lot. Or you're just an obtuse fanboy. Ignored
Since September 2013, Rockstar has given you over $200 worth of DLC. For free. So yeah, I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you are not entitled to that opinion.
And not sure what you´re insinuating, I don´t work for Rockstar.
I'm just telling the truth, Dick
Thank you, Richi.
I´m done with this thread now.
Hari Seldon
Member
If what he was doing was illegal then they would be able to sue to stop him. This is just harassment.
Here is Take-Two's response when it was pointed out that they could have just called him.
"Oh yes, but the telephone is so impersonal. I prefer the hands-on touch you only get with hired goons."
How it actually went down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H27rfr59RiE
FlammableAce
Member
exclusive footage
lmao
It's a perfectly valid comparison, Dick. I'll make it easy for you to understand, Dick.
WOW monthly subscription, Destiny paid add-ons, and FIFA UT pack/ coins are sources of revenue. And the only source of revenue for GTA Online are Cash Cards ("they have kept GTA Online DLC free").
Less players, less money. No players, no money.
Since September 2013, Rockstar has given you over $200 worth of DLC. For free. So yeah, I'm going to take a wild guess here and say that you are not entitled to that opinion.
And not sure what you´re insinuating, I don´t work for Rockstar.
I'm just telling the truth, Dick
Thank you, Richi.
I´m done with this thread now.
I'm pretty sure the majority of PC players do not buy cash cards on PC for the fact that as soon as you join a lobby a hacker gives you $99999999...
Also I still do not see how your comparing F2P to a P2P subscription service.
People still need to buy the $60 base game so cash cards is not the only income they are getting.
Acerac
Banned
The frightening part is that people think it's unrealistic for this to happen.
Granted, I'm not saying it did happen, but anyone who thinks nothing like this ever happens is a complete fool.
*Edit*
lol @ bud, way to be classy.
In order to effectively manipulate players into spending maximum money you need to control every facet of game experience so analytics can be run scientifically while tweaking variables. People messing with that, well, messes things up and it is big money.
edit: I assumed you were asking about multiplayer.
corps in the post-founder bureaucratic phase do not give anything away for free. lol.
- They do a decent job with "allegedly" and "report", that's not my issue.
- My issue is that they then turn around and say stuff like "to strong arm" and "to intimidate"; diction never used in the Reddit post, meaning it's the article writer's own. that sort of color doesn't belong here. If the modder wanted to say it, the author could/should have quoted it, not add it in for drama. The author isn't even saying "the modder felt intimidated", he's saying "these people were sent explicitly to strong arm and intimidate", which is speculative.
- Pointing to other articles doing worse doesn't make this article better.
- I'm not hating on journalists, plural; in fact, I'm not even hating on this journalist. I'm hating on this piece, in isolation, hence "in this article". I can't say I've ever read anything else by this writer, and I'm not going to seek it out. I thought the scope of my comment was pretty clear.
- Regardless of how standard/accepted it is to simultaneously post and ask the other party for comment, I find this practice irresponsible. It's intrinsically biased and leads to situations where the first version people read is only one party's. If the second party does respond, and outlet then goes back and edits the post to say "Update: T2 says 'nuh-uh, the PIs were there to deliver chocolates becuz we luv modderz.", MOST people won't read that. I really don't care if they get "scooped" by outlets with looser practices.
- I think part of my problem with the article is that "journalism" in games (and I'm sure other media) has largely devolved to "some guy on Reddit said something", rather than doing reporting.
EDIT: - A read through this thread and the other thread is proof that it's already accepted as 100% fact by some people. It's unfortunate, but that's how it is.
EDIT: I want to make it abundantly clear that if this did go down the way the Reddit poster said it did, that's pretty shitty. I don't condone the practice, I'm just criticizing the one article I'm commenting on.
EDIT 2:
I THINK what benicillin may have been suggest was:
- that a PR from a publicly traded company, especially one the size of apple, is crafted the way it is because it's specifically for the purpose of being reported on. it's a PRESS release.
- it would probably have been a good idea to talk to the Reddit poster to get a better sense of how he felt about it. Ask questions like "did you think they were here to intimidate you?" BEFORE offering that in your article based on your interpretation of a Reddit post.
- it's important to get comment, or allow a reasonable window for the second party to comment to avoid even the appearance of bias in the article.
A better example of this is an article titled "Tim Cook sends private investigators to spy on minority employees - report" based on a Reddit post. I think it's irresponsible to put something like that out into the ether without making a real effort to talk to both parties.
EDIT 3: This is probably getting off topic. I'll stop commenting on the journalism aspect.