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[TimFL]

GTA:MP was being developed by the goobers that killed IV:MP with their "competence". They even claimed that they were in constant contact with R* and received support from them (I want to see the transcripts).
There was no hope for said mod because we already saw what they were capable of: nothing.

FiveM on the other hand looked like the real deal, anyone knows anything about it? The last time I checked they pulled the website but continued development

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Strongly disagree it's much more personal and telling how serious they take it.

well on one hand, it is an escalation... but had they previously tried to issue cease and desist orders that were ignored with reasonable doubt onto whether they were successfully issued or not, hiring a regulated agent to deliver the cease and desist in person is probably the more restrained option... they probably could have just filed an injunction. but by the sounds of the story, it sounds like they want to avoid legal injunctions (and otherwise drama) and so they tried to just issue the cease and desist instead.

the article uses words like "strong arm" that may not actually be accurate... the modder may have been surprised and overwhelmed but if TT was choosing between either delivering a cease and desist in person or just filing an injunction, TT actually chose the less strong option. and using a PI is just... a technicality, I suppose, if you have reasonable doubt as to whether or not someone has been receiving a cease and desist... if the modder isn't at his home address (ignoring his mail/phone), and TT doesn't want to have an injunction filed and then the modder subpoena to appear, I suppose hiring a PI to deliver the C&D in person is the alternative. in that role, they'd just errand boys, essentially... for all intents and purpose an intern could do it but you hire a PI because they're a third-party and federally regulated (I assume that's the case in the UK too).

I can't imagine TT asking the C&D agents to do anything other than issue the order... I think a PI could risk his regulatory license for using intimidation, and TT could be found liable and probably negligent (since the PI was acting on TT's behalf) for civil damages...whether or not the modder felt otherwise, I dunno... I mean, maybe he was just scared to see a suit at his door and felt that alone was 'bullying' when the PI would see it as a routine C&D delivery. Not too sure ;p but this could have been a pretty standard issue of a C&D (in a general context) but that seemed overwhelming in the context of a game mod (though it's probably more akin to a hacked private server from TT's POV).

 

[MrCunningham]

As i said few posts above, issue are not single player mods. Issue is when modders make new version of Multiplayer that removes microtransactions. That is big issue for T2 because those microtransactions are big part of their earnings.

Oh... Well, I guess I can see why they are doing this.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

well on one hand, it is an escalation... but had they previously tried to issue cease and desist orders that were ignored with reasonable doubt onto whether they were successfully issued or not, hiring a regulated agent to deliver the cease and desist in person is probably the more restrained option... they probably could have just filed an injunction. but by the sounds of the story, it sounds like they want to avoid legal injunctions (and otherwise drama) and so they tried to just issue the cease and desist instead.

the article uses words like "strong arm" that may not actually be accurate... the modder may have been surprised and overwhelmed but if TT was choosing between either delivering a cease and desist in person or just filing an injunction, TT actually chose the less strong option. and using a PI is just... a technicality, I suppose, if you have reasonable doubt as to whether or not someone has been receiving a cease and desist... if the modder isn't at his home address (ignoring his mail/phone), and TT doesn't want to have an injunction filed and then the modder subpoena to appear, I suppose hiring a PI to deliver the C&D in person is the alternative. in that role, they'd just errand boys, essentially... for all intents and purpose an intern could do it but you hire a PI because they're a third-party and federally regulated (I assume that's the case in the UK too).

I can't imagine TT asking the C&D agents to do anything other than issue the order... I think a PI could risk his regulatory license for using intimidation, and TT could be found liable and probably negligent (since the PI was acting on TT's behalf) for civil damages...whether or not the modder felt otherwise, I dunno... I mean, maybe he was just scared to see a suit at his door and felt that alone was 'bullying' when the PI would see it as a routine C&D delivery. Not too sure ;p but this could have been a pretty standard issue of a C&D (in a general context) but that seemed overwhelming in the context of a game mod (though it's probably more akin to a hacked private server from TT's POV).

If he didn't comply with a C&D letter or was unreachable then everything is peachy but I didn't get that in the article. Hence I even said there might be more to the story.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

yeah for sure, like the line about them giving him a phone number to call... did they really just show up and say "hey! phone this number!"? by the language it sounds like they were describing how to comply with a cease and desist and why they want to avoid an injunction. but he doesn't actually describe whether he received a copy of the cease and desist too that specific moment. it says he received a cease and desist in general but doesn't describe how it was received and what else the agents may have given to him during that encounter... i mean, were they there to issue a c&d and then they just said, hey, here's a number you call and here's some tips on what to do? or they really just show up and say 'call this number!!' ...i would have to assume they're bring the actual c&d with them for legal reasons since it says he received one at some point somehow.

 

[ShepardCommander]

Allegedly

+

Should at least have some proof.

 

[Busty]

TT makes significant revenue (based on their annual report) revenue from GTAO microtransactions, and my understanding of these mods are that they allow players to play hacked versions of GTAO that bypass microtransactions. I'm not really clear if they're still using Rockstar servers or not but it's basically similar to a 'private server' in practice. In a MMO, a private 'game room' would let players bypass monthly fees; I suppose for GTAO, its revenue instead of monthly fees are basically selling in-game currency, and this would allow the same bypassing of their revenue stream. That's my impression at least from what I've read about the 'mods.'

That's an interesting point, I hadn't thought of that. Even still, such tactics seem more akin to the mafia than a games publisher.

Well..., now that I think about it...,

 

[Yudoken]

This is really bad, very disappointing that modders nowadays get treated like shit and get sued by AAA developers.

Modding is something precious and must be protected, gaming would be not the same without modding.

I hate not being able to improve and change a game to my taste.

 

[Majukun]

oh wait.. gta v has microtransactions?
glad I didn't buy it then

 

[Foffy]

GTA:MP was being developed by the goobers that killed IV:MP with their "competence". They even claimed that they were in constant contact with R* and received support from them (I want to see the transcripts).
There was no hope for said mod because we already saw what they were capable of: nothing.

FiveM on the other hand looked like the real deal, anyone knows anything about it? The last time I checked they pulled the website but continued development

They specifically targeted the modder of FiveM. Of course, this was after they silently banned him and other modders from GTA Online months ago for their efforts, even if it didn't produce any exploitations in the main online mode..

This is still a game where people are using trainers online to have infinite health, drop items on people, and remove players weapons. Let's not do anything about those, guys..

 

[Piers]

oh wait.. gta v has microtransactions?
glad I didn't buy it then

Money doesn't amount to much in the game, at least. In competitive sense, most jobs provide the guns or the cars for players. This can change if the host selects "Player owned ___", but I've rarely seen that happen.

This is still a game where people are using trainers online to have infinite health, drop items on people, and remove players weapons. Let's not do anything about those, guys..

2K's answer will be to shut down the PC version only.

 

[Klossen]

This is really bad, very disappointing that modders nowadays get treated like shit and get sued by AAA developers.

Modding is something precious and must be protected, gaming would be not the same without modding.

I hate not being to improve and change a game to my taste.

That's the tragedy of this. Modders used to be the backbone of PC gaming. Many of the most popular PC titles of today are in some way related to modding. Publishers want more and more control. Their pursuit of a neverending revenue stream is hitting communities pretty hard. I can't imagine PC gaming without modding. All of my most played PC games are heavily modded to fit my standards and expectations. This is bullshit. GTA:O is just a farce.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I feel like Rockstar/T2 get away with a shit tonne of anti consumer behaviour because their games are so unanimously well received.

 

[The Albatross]

The mods are similar to running a private server of an MMO to get around paying monthly fees for the MMO. It's too bad because the MultiTheft Auto project, which I'm sure inspired these mods, was a lot of fun... But now Rockstar wants you to play in their world by their terms.

 

[Bear]

"I just got a pair of PIs at my door claiming to be sent by Take-Two," the modder explained, "handing me a phone with a person somewhere in the UK or US or whatever to...

Here is Take-Two's response when it was pointed out that they could have just called him.

"Oh yes, but the telephone is so impersonal. I prefer the hands-on touch you only get with hired goons."​

 

[The Albatross]

oh wait.. gta v has microtransactions?
glad I didn't buy it then

Nah,GTA V does not. But GTA Online does. It's been a decent model since the game came out to continue to monetize the online world without walling people off behind dlc.

You can still compete in the game without spending any real money. I've out in 200 hours or so, own just about everything I want, and have not spent any real money. But items like gold plated cars, expensive fake clothes, gold jets, and other usually cosmetic things cost a lot of ingame money and the quicker way to obtain the gold airplane for instance would be to spend $20 on a money card. For what it's worth, there is no performance difference between the gold plane and the typical model of plane without gold.

 

[Unknown One]

Of course, to protect their extremely easy Microtransaction money.

 

[bud23]

I feel like Rockstar/T2 get away with a shit tonne of anti consumer behaviour because their games are so unanimously well received.

You mean anti consumer behavior like give players tons of free DLCs?

And circumventing Rockstar microtransactions model, like it or not, is piracy.

Protect your intellectual property? Not cool, Rockstar, not cool.

 

[chrisPjelly]

So when are the anti-nude mod mafia fleet set to arrive?

 

[Alo0oy]

Whether some people in this thread want to admit it or not, what these modders were doing was basically piracy.

Take Two are still being dicks about it though, they should have sent them a polite email and asked them to stop doing it.

 

[Dick Justice]

You mean anti consumer behavior like give players tons of free DLCs?

And circumventing Rockstar microtransactions model, like it or not, is piracy.

Protect your intellectual property? Not cool, Rockstar, not cool.

Anti consumer behaviour like their bullshit Steam "sale", overpricing the fuck out of stuff like lowriders to encourage shark card purchases, and keeping the aforementioned lowriders exclusive to online (unless you use a mod). But please, keep defending their shoddy practices.

Also, exactly how is making an alternate multiplayer mode piracy? Are they giving you money in GTA Online? No, they're giving you a different mode to play. To even infer that it's piracy just comes across as mindless corporate drone speak.

 

[OraleeWey]

 

[Corronchilejano]

Not at all representative of the case.

 

[BeforeU]

nofunallowed.gif

 

[Auto-Reply]

Trevor and Michael knocking at your door...

 

[Carcetti]

Doesn't really work. This is exactly like when Blizzard hunts for unlicensed WoW servers and bot makers, aka shutting down attempts to get rid of their multiplayer service monetization. Single player mods are not at risk.

 

[TheSlySoul]

What if the guy just says "no" and shuts the door? Not sure he is doing anything illegal since it is a mod and not a hack.

 

[Darius]

Doesn´t surprise me at all, after all we are talking about a company that releases products that glorify crimes and violence.

 

[The Albatross]

Doesn't make any sense in this case. These are more akin to cracks to get around paying for something than something that puts icing on a cake.

 

[FlammableAce]

Shitty move by TakeTwo these two multiplayer mods are offering much better than the hacker infested shit they have.

RIP the chance to have a good stable multiplayer with script support.

 

[LUXURY]

Oh how far games have come.

 

[Teuoxton]

It isn't piracy because the modder bought the game already IMO... But to the actual issue in the OP:

Nobody has a right to intimidate someone else, and if his MP is a business 'threat' then they should just compete like an actual business. When they offer what he does but better people won't use his mod and their problem is solved!

The guy could just call the cops on the PIs for harassment too. Just my two cents.

 

[outunderthestars]

Going to your neighbours is civil interaction. Sending 2 guys to your home handing you a phone, mentioning a former legal dispute, is pretty straightforwardly an intimidation attempt.
Sounds very fishy and are clearly the wrong channels used for communication. Dunno if it's illegal but T2 went way outta line there.

Maybe there's more to the story the way it's displayed here though. If that happened to me I'd be far more infuriated than frightened.

Totally disagree. They wanted to speak to the person so they hired people to make that happen.


The author of the story is trying to create outrage by using terms like "strong arm" and based on this thread it appears to be working.

 

[Frog-fu]

This some intimidation tactics fuckery.

 

[Brerlappin]

I feel like Rockstar/T2 get away with a shit tonne of anti consumer behaviour because their games are so unanimously well received.

If ubisoft did this, this thread would probbly be at 50 pages already. R* are one of the scummiest companies around, but they seem to permanently get a pass because GTA.

 

[Zombegoast]

I didn't knew GTAO had micro transaction but man gamers/casuals really dug themselves in a hole buying into this.

 

[Dennis]

Perfect.

 

[FlammableAce]

All these mods did was add the ability to host servers with script and mod (Custom vehicles, weapons, maps) support.

San Andreas still has 40k players online thanks to all the custom game modes and role-playing servers.

 

[Nevadatan]

the P.I thing sounds laugheable until you picture the guys as the ones from that eviction show from SpikeTV.
Damn, doesn't that classified as intimidation? not sure how US handles that, but here that counts for threatening behavior and is punible.

 

[NoKisum]

Does this mean I can finally start up GTA Online without being blown up in my apartment?

 

[BigDug13]

Sending PI's instead of actual law enforcement or a legal "cease and desist" order says to me that these guys are doing nothing wrong.

Huge corporations wouldn't resort to such measures if they had a legal leg to stand on.

 

[Falk]

Nobody has a right to intimidate someone else, and if his MP is a business 'threat' then they should just compete like an actual business.

What. That's ridiculous. Justified or not (I think it is), you're doing work based off their IP. That's even with the stretch of considering them a business rival, which they aren't.

This kind of can be extrapolated to saying a bunch of Chinese companies can make GTAV clones based off the work and assets and they're legit business rivals.

 

[Darkwater]

Might I add to this discussion that the modder is claiming this on Reddit. He might be pulling it out of his ass. There's no way to be sure right now.

Either way, Take-Two better have an official statement about this soon. The public is not taking this well.

 

[Dali]

Y not close da door on dem? U dont have 2 talk 2 em.

For real, yo. Just be like "Take2? How 'bout you Take2 of deez nuts in your mouth." *shuts door*

 

[Darkwater]

I'm gonna play the Devil's Advocate here and say I understand. GTA Online is the creation of R* and T2. They invested money in its development, and still do. Revenue generated by GTA Online is dependant on having a player base. Multiplayer mods detract from that player base. Thus, R* and T2 do not want them around.

Are they right in shutting these MP mods down or are players free to do whatever they want with the software they paid handsomely for (and aren't hurting anyone with in the process)? I suppose that's up for debate.

Either way, if this PI-move by T2 is real then it's a little ham-fisted to say the least.

 

[Seyavesh]

yeah, but do they got badges?

 

[Outrun]

Did the PI look like this?

 

[BigDug13]

I'm gonna play the Devil's Advocate here and say I understand. GTA Online is the creation of R* and T2. They invested money in its development, and still do. Revenue generated by GTA Online is dependant on having a player base. Multiplayer mods detract from that player base. Thus, R* and T2 do not want them around.

Are they right in shutting these MP mods down or are players free to do whatever they want with the software they paid handsomely for (and aren't hurting anyone with in the process)? I suppose that's up for debate.

Either way, if this PI-move by T2 is real then it's a little ham-fisted to say the least.

The fact that actual lawyers or law enforcement wasn't used says there's nothing "up for debate". These modders are not breaking the law. Therefore Take Two is not "right in shutting these mods down" because the law is not on Take Two's side in these specific instances.

 

[Klossen]

All these mods did was add the ability to host servers with script and mod (Custom vehicles, weapons, maps) support.

San Andreas still has 40k players online thanks to all the custom game modes and role-playing servers.

San Andreas was from a time before publishers sought to monetize every single aspect of the game to the point where external content creation is now regarded as a threat. It's tragic.

 

[djkeem]

If what the modders are doing is illegal, wouldn't they use official law enforcement?