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[cdyhybrid]

So is this worse than Macklemore?

First-ballot GAF HOFer

It's the same problem, but on a bigger stage.

https://streamable.com/t9nx

 

[Eos]

https://streamable.com/t9nx

SunhiGOAT

 

[udiie]

https://streamable.com/t9nx

legend.

 

[Thewonandonly]

Because they are.

Look, I didn't even enjoy TPaB on the same magnitude as others did, but come on!

To Pimp a Butterfly was the closest thing to a sure-fire win as I had ever seen. It had massive critical appraise from all sides of journalism, the President of the United fucking States declared it the best album of the year, it dominated Album of the Year charts across all journalism sites, it had a song that became the anthem for the #BlackLivesMatter movement, it had cultural impact on a scale that Taylor Swift would beg to have.

It was the one to beat.

1989 shouldn't have won because it did nothing for the cultural zeitgeist. It sparked a conversation royalties, sure, but what else did it do? Have a slickly made set of music videos? Had a star-studded remix of a song with 2 second cameos? What the fuck did Taylor Swift's album do that Kendrick's didn't do better?

Taylor's album was mainstream pop suitable for the most banal audiences. Kendrick's album was a true attempt at artistry, addressing complex themes while Taylor talks about her image as a serial dater and love and shots fired at Katy Perry. It couldn't hold a candle to TPaB.

The voters ARE out of touch, and I hope nay I pray someone talks about this tomorrow. Because what happened here is a travesty on a scale that the Grammys should wish never happens again. I hope articles and articles are written on this bullshit, and I hope the Academy gets eviscerated. They gave the wrong album the title, and I hope they know that by tomorrow.

Man really really great post and I agree with it.

I can't wait to see the backlash because it's so fucking deserved that it makes me sick. This was easily the best album of the year and might be the best rap album of all time(to me it is but I don't really like illmatic :/). Instead they give it to Americas sweetheart because that's what the majority want. At least the oscars don't give best picture awards to jurasic world or Star Wars episode 7(even though it's my favorite movie ever).

I honestly don't know how anyone can factually say that 1989 deserved it more then a album that comes as close as you can to changing a culture. Sure it can be your favorite album but you can see how it shouldn't win.

Also Taylor is phony as fuck and I can't stand here. Crying because Ed Sheron won come on now.

Edit: reading all your post torre_avenue is it to early to ask you to marry me

Preach my man and let's Change the Grammys to be about fucking music and not sells hell I wouldn't have been this mad if they have it to litalry any other album nominated.

 

[Kid Ska]

https://streamable.com/t9nx

lmao you're always on top of your game

 

[Rembrandt]

Guys guys guys.

When's the last time anyone thought to him or herself "Man, the thing is, Raising Sand was just a better record than In Rainbows cuz it won the Grammy's for best album."

Get real.

Full disclosure, I like Raising Sand. A lot.

I also like comparing two completely different situations.

https://streamable.com/t9nx

i was hoping and i'm glad you did it.

Also Taylor is phony as fuck and I can't stand here. Crying because Ed Sheron won come on now.

Taylor is the epitome of media trained.

 

[Swag]

https://streamable.com/t9nx

That scene fits that song so well.

 

[Pixels]

https://streamable.com/t9nx

Perfect omg

 

[Surface of Me]

Grammys are a joke, Uptown Funk winning mothering fucking RECORD OF THE YEAR makes me feel like Kendrick shoulda gotten green slime poured on him at the the end of his performance. The worst part is that they aren't even consistent in their bad taste, there is no method to how they chose terrible winners every year. I want to say it's a popularity contest, but it doesn't even seem to be that.


This thread and Kendrick's performance remind me I need to give TPaB a few more listens. Never really gave it a go when it came out, despite being a fan of his.

 

[jetsetrez]

It may not matter to you, but think about it in the larger view. If TPaB won, it would be a validation of hip-hop as a tool for social change, of impact. It would validate the work of people of Killer Mike and Kendrick, people using music as an avenue for societal change. It would show the world that an album as unabashedly black as TPaB is could be recognized in a world that tends to disadvantage African-Americans in ways that no other minority faces. It would be a statement that would overall have a positive impact. Maybe I'm just delusional, but TPaB winning would have been a seminal moment for both hip-hop and music as a medium for change. You're right in that it doesn't need awards to be great or to show its message is real, but it should have gotten one to reflect the unanimous praise it received and social impact it had for an album. It showed the true potential of an album's impact, and it lost to a hyper-polished slickly made collection of singles that sold well.

Right now, there is a divide between true artistic music and music made to sell, and the Grammys could be a tool to reconcile that divide. But it doesn't and continues to reward legacy acts and pop stars.

Just my two cents before I head to sleep.

I get what you're saying, and I don't disagree with your opinions. Frankly, I agree with almost everything you're saying. I think TPAB is art. I think 1989 is fluff. The part where we differ, is that I don't think anyone is obligated to vote for something on any grounds; I understand that a lot of people, probably most, and clearly most of the people who voted for these awards, do not listen to music for social change, nor should they be obligated to. And while I may think they should be giving it to TPAB for its artistic merit (or Art Angels, for me personally), I also think truly artistic music is becoming less and less valued in general, not just by the Grammys, but in the culture. But that's neither here nor there.

 

[breakfuss]

Arcade Fire winning disproves the popularity thing. C'mon yall. Something just doesn't add up.

 

[Floridian]

https://streamable.com/t9nx

At least something great came out of this.

 

[Jmanunknown]

I liked it even more than Sea Change

But that's the thing .. Music is subjective
Even more so than any other media

Can't believe all the salt in this thread .. I bet Kendrick ain't even sweating it

Really you think Kendrick did not care? Kendrick said this about his 11 grammy nominations

"I Want to Win Them All'

He also said this in a Billboard interview

“It’s bigger than me. When we think about the Grammys, only Lauryn Hill and Outkast have won album of the year. This would be big for hip-hop culture at large.”

And he had the most grammy nominations since Michael Jackson thriller and was still shut out of the 3 major categories.

 

[Kusagari]

The most acclaimed album of the past 10 years period couldn't even get an AOTY nomination.

People need to stop expecting the Grammys to validate rap outside of its own categories, because they won't unless it happens to be Eminem or Macklemore.

Edit: Actually even Em has never won anything out of rap and Macklemore got nothing outside of rap besides the worthless best new artist award. The Outkast win 12 years ago was a mirage. Rap is firmly in its own secluded ghetto.

 

[Red_Man]

Grammys are a joke, Uptown Funk winning mothering fucking RECORD OF THE YEAR makes me feel like Kendrick shoulda gotten green slime poured on him at the the end of his performance.

I'm actually dying :lol :lol

 

[Japanmanx3]

Really you think Kendrick did not care? Kendrick said this about his 11 grammy nominations He also said this in a Billboard interview And he had the most grammy nominations since thriller and was still shut out of the 3 major categories.

Yeah but he got 5 tho so he should be happy.... >.>.

The logic in this thread is telling. People suggesting he don't care. Posting of pictures of Swift with him or Beyoncé as if that proves a point.

But again...we gone be alright!

 

[eddievanclaylen]

GHOST won a grammy! Hell yes!

 

[BeatnikGunsoo]

GHOST won a grammy! Hell yes!

Yeah I love ghost but them winning definitely dispels the popularity notion

 

[dallow_bg]

It's not so tough if you have a desk job with headphones on all day. That's 7+ albums every day.

That's crazy to me.
I can't digest music like that personally as I can get stuck on an album for as long as a couple of weeks before I can move on to something else.

 

[MIMIC]

https://streamable.com/t9nx

bwahahahaha

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Because they are.

Look, I didn't even enjoy TPaB on the same magnitude as others did, but come on!

To Pimp a Butterfly was the closest thing to a sure-fire win as I had ever seen. It had massive critical appraise from all sides of journalism, the President of the United fucking States declared it the best album of the year, it dominated Album of the Year charts across all journalism sites, it had a song that became the anthem for the #BlackLivesMatter movement, it had cultural impact on a scale that Taylor Swift would beg to have.

It was the one to beat.

1989 shouldn't have won because it did nothing for the cultural zeitgeist. It sparked a conversation royalties, sure, but what else did it do? Have a slickly made set of music videos? Had a star-studded remix of a song with 2 second cameos? What the fuck did Taylor Swift's album do that Kendrick's didn't do better?

Taylor's album was mainstream pop suitable for the most banal audiences. Kendrick's album was a true attempt at artistry, addressing complex themes while Taylor talks about her image as a serial dater and love and shots fired at Katy Perry. It couldn't hold a candle to TPaB.

The voters ARE out of touch, and I hope nay I pray someone talks about this tomorrow. Because what happened here is a travesty on a scale that the Grammys should wish never happens again. I hope articles and articles are written on this bullshit, and I hope the Academy gets eviscerated. They gave the wrong album the title, and I hope they know that by tomorrow.

Yeah I mostly agree with this post. Although I have this strange fear that the Kendrick Lamar performance and the Kendrick Lamar snub will largely be ignored and people will instead be distracted by Taylor Swift firing shots at The Grammys.

 

[Spine_Ripper]

https://streamable.com/t9nx

GODDAMN

 

[reKon]

https://streamable.com/t9nx

We're still eatin fam

 

[Toparaman]

Hip-hop literally gets zero respect.

Hip-hop gets plenty of respect from the Grammys. Televised performances, major awards, major nominations, etc. It also gets plenty of respect from academia and reputed publications. It also gets regularly played on radio and in clubs. It's widely considered a hip, cool genre, and chances are your friends won't complain if you play it in the car.

Metal is the real genre that doesn't get respect, from the Grammys or anyone else. As someone who is a fan of both, the persecution complex of some hip-hop fans is laughable to me. Like, maybe if you're a fan of technical rap or something like that I could get where you're coming from. But Kanye? Kendrick? The music press rides their nuts like there's no tomorrow. "Genius" and "poet" are thrown around liberally. Their albums sell well, their videos have a bajillion hits, they headline major festivals, get performance time on major shows, etc.

This isn't even a case of Grammys shafting black artists. There are so many mainstream classic albums by white artists that have won zero Grammys. Dark Side of the Moon, all of Bob Dylan's '60s albums (despite being widely considered the voice of his generation at the time), all of the Rolling Stones '60s/'70s albums, the list goes on. TPaB won five Grammys. That's "zero respect" to you?

 

[Granadier]

Does Kanye seriously claim that he made Swift famous just because he put her name in a song?

 

[cdyhybrid]

Hip-hop gets plenty of respect from the Grammys. Televised performances, major awards, major nominations, etc. It also gets plenty of respect from academia and reputed publications. It also gets regularly played on radio and in clubs. It's widely considered a hip, cool genre, and chances are your friends won't complain if you play it in the car.

Metal is the real genre that doesn't get respect, from the Grammys or anyone else. As someone who is a fan of both, the persecution complex of some hip-hop fans is laughable to me. Like, maybe if you're a fan of technical rap or something like that I could get where you're coming from. But Kanye? Kendrick? The music press rides their nuts like there's no tomorrow. "Genius" and "poet" are thrown around liberally. Their albums sell well, their videos have a bajillion hits, they headline major festivals, get performance time on major shows, etc.

This isn't even a case of Grammys shafting black artists. There are so many mainstream classic albums by white artists that have won zero Grammys. Dark Side of the Moon, all of Bob Dylan's '60s albums (despite being widely considered the voice of his generation at the time), all of the Rolling Stones '60s/'70s albums, the list goes on. TPaB won five Grammys. That's "zero respect" to you?

You almost had something until you tried to pass Kendrick off as not technically great.

 

[DrM]

grammy award-winning metal band Ghost

omg

fucking awesome

Note for everyone:
If you have a chance, go see them live. Fantastic experience.

 

[breakfuss]

Does Kanye seriously claim that he made Swift famous just because he put her name in a song?

No, because of the VMAs. And it was clear he was being facetious. The line was in poor taste though, I'll admit.

 

[BunnyBear]

To Pimp a Butterfly was the closest thing to a sure-fire win as I had ever seen. It had massive critical appraise from all sides of journalism, the President of the United fucking States declared it the best album of the year, it dominated Album of the Year charts across all journalism sites, it had a song that became the anthem for the #BlackLivesMatter movement, it had cultural impact on a scale that Taylor Swift would beg to have.

Seriously? I'd never heard of it until today. 1989 though? Everywhere. Say what you will but 89 had global cultural impact. Truly global.

 

[breakfuss]

Seriously? I'd never heard of it until today. 1989 though? Everywhere. Say what you will but 89 had global cultural impact. Truly global.

Are you from the U.S.?

What "cultural impact" did 1989 have? Genuinely curious.

 

[Patapwn]

Ha what an outcome! The most oversaturated genre beat out the 2nd most oversaturated genre

What a criminal act

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Hip-hop gets plenty of respect from the Grammys. Televised performances, major awards, major nominations, etc. It also gets plenty of respect from academia and reputed publications. It also gets regularly played on radio and in clubs. It's widely considered a hip, cool genre, and chances are your friends won't complain if you play it in the car.

Metal is the real genre that doesn't get respect, from the Grammys or anyone else. As someone who is a fan of both, the persecution complex of some hip-hop fans is laughable to me. Like, maybe if you're a fan of technical rap or something like that I could get where you're coming from. But Kanye? Kendrick? The music press rides their nuts like there's no tomorrow. "Genius" and "poet" are thrown around liberally. Their albums sell well, their videos have a bajillion hits, they headline major festivals, get performance time on major shows, etc.

This isn't even a case of Grammys shafting black artists. There are so many mainstream classic albums by white artists that have won zero Grammys. Dark Side of the Moon, all of Bob Dylan's '60s albums (despite being widely considered the voice of his generation at the time), all of the Rolling Stones '60s/'70s albums, the list goes on. TPaB won five Grammys. That's "zero respect" to you?

Let's consider how much bigger of an audience listens to rap versus metal. Not that popularity should be a sole defining factor by any means but album of the year should be something that defines that year for a portion of the generation. However, I do agree people shouldn't take the 5 grammys he did win lightly. The Grammys also made a much bigger push towards representing black people within the music industry.

 

[Rembrandt]

Hip-hop gets plenty of respect from the Grammys. Televised performances, major awards, major nominations, etc. It also gets plenty of respect from academia and reputed publications. It also gets regularly played on radio and in clubs. It's widely considered a hip, cool genre, and chances are your friends won't complain if you play it in the car.

Metal is the real genre that doesn't get respect, from the Grammys or anyone else. As someone who is a fan of both, the persecution complex of some hip-hop fans is laughable to me. Like, maybe if you're a fan of technical rap or something like that I could get where you're coming from. But Kanye? Kendrick? The music press rides their nuts like there's no tomorrow. "Genius" and "poet" are thrown around liberally. Their albums sell well, their videos have a bajillion hits, they headline major festivals, get performance time on major shows, etc.

This isn't even a case of Grammys shafting black artists. There are so many mainstream classic albums by white artists that have won zero Grammys. Dark Side of the Moon, all of Bob Dylan's '60s albums (despite being widely considered the voice of his generation at the time), all of the Rolling Stones '60s/'70s albums, the list goes on. TPaB won five Grammys. That's "zero respect" to you?

you've convinced me. none of those cds get the credit they deserve. this is exactly the same situation and i can't believe rap fans are feeling persecuted when TPAB sold >800,000 copies when DSotM has only sold 50 million. I mean, who's really not getting no respect here?

 

[BunnyBear]

Are you from the U.S.?

What "cultural impact" did 1989 have? Genuinely curious.

No, Australia.

What cultural impact did the Kendrick Lamar thing have? Like is said I'd never fucking heard of it before today.

 

[Japanmanx3]

Seriously? I'd never heard of it until today. 1989 though? Everywhere. Say what you will but 89 had global cultural impact. Truly global.

Changed lives it did.

No, Australia.

What cultural impact did the Kendrick Lamar thing have? Like is said I'd never fucking heard of it before today.

Wow...

 

[Rembrandt]

No, Australia.

What cultural impact did the Kendrick Lamar thing have? Like is said I'd never fucking heard of it before today.

this happened a few times:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUC_DOhfzwQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnYCwQcryyc

he got to have this as an album and still meet the president.

 

[royalan]

I agree with you, but the voters and majority of music listeners are not sophisticated and they prefer Taylor. It has always been this way. Pop wins over culturally significant music. Music shows are about advertising and money and they need viewers and ad revenue. Taylor has over 1 billion Youtube views vs Kendrick maybe hundreds of millions (just guessing, no easy way to tell). It is all about money, not talent.

I would agree with you on this if we were talking about any other award but Album of the Year. That tends to be the ONE award that the Grammy committee holds out for quality, and it RARELY ever goes to Pop artists. Not because Pop artists make shit music, but because Pop artists tend to make albums that are collections of radio-ready singles, whereas this award is usually held out for albums that are cohesive in sound and concept, and tells a story from beginning to end.

1989 isn't a bad Pop album, but it is just a collection of singles. I can't in my mind put it up against a thoughtful album like To Pimp a Butterfly, an album that had such a consistent and provocative theme, and think it deserves to come out on top.

 

[BunnyBear]

It may not matter to you, but think about it in the larger view. If TPaB won, it would be a validation of hip-hop as a tool for social change, of impact. It would validate the work of people of Killer Mike and Kendrick, people using music as an avenue for societal change. It would show the world that an album as unabashedly black as TPaB is could be recognized in a world that tends to disadvantage African-Americans in ways that no other minority faces. It would be a statement that would overall have a positive impact. Maybe I'm just delusional, but TPaB winning would have been a seminal moment for both hip-hop and music as a medium for change. You're right in that it doesn't need awards to be great or to show its message is real, but it should have gotten one to reflect the unanimous praise it received and social impact it had for an album. It showed the true potential of an album's impact, and it lost to a hyper-polished slickly made collection of singles that sold well.

Right now, there is a divide between true artistic music and music made to sell, and the Grammys could be a tool to reconcile that divide. But it doesn't and continues to reward legacy acts and pop stars.

Just my two cents before I head to sleep.

You really need to step back from this, it's way over the top. I think the album can do all those things without winning an Emmy.

 

[hidys]

No, Australia.

What cultural impact did the Kendrick Lamar thing have? Like is said I'd never fucking heard of it before today.

I'm Australian.

Ignore this man.

 

[Cipherr]

Cultural impact is not the dominant factor for an awards show that has traditionally rewarded success over all.

I have to agree. I feel TPAB should have won also, but I'm not really of the opinion that things like cultural impact matter even a LITTLE to the people selecting the winners of the grammys. I would find it difficult to believe that it has mattered ever, or at least in the last 20 or so years.

These awards shows really shouldn't be taken seriously. It's okay to enjoy them, but deep analysis is only going to leave you frustrated.

 

[Japanmanx3]

You really need to step back from this, it's way over the top. I think the album can do all those things without winning an Emmy.

How could you think that when you just heard about the album?

 

[Granadier]

No, because of the VMAs. And it was clear he was being facetious. The line was in poor taste though, I'll admit.

Swift already had the second-best selling country single of all time in 2008. I don't think Kanye had anything to do with her success, whatever he tells himself.

No, Australia.

What cultural impact did the Kendrick Lamar thing have? Like is said I'd never fucking heard of it before today.

You must live under a really big rock down under.

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Arcade Fire winning disproves the popularity thing. C'mon yall. Something just doesn't add up.

Popularity isn't the only factor. Arcade Fire and Beck's wins were weird attempts at credibility; both albums also appealed to the voters' older members. And sometimes an old artist releases an album and wins all the major awards despite having little sales or radio success. But overall if you look at the winners it is largely a popularity contest.

 

[BunnyBear]

How could you think that when you just heard about the album?

From what everyone is saying it was a rallying point for the black community last year. Personally I wasn't aware of it, but that's hardly surprising. The last album I downloaded was MMLP2...

My point is I don't think it's cultural relevance will be lessened by the fact it didn't win a fucking Grammy. I think you're overstating how important that award is to it becoming revered as a cultural cornerstone.

 

[SimpleGamer]

No, Australia.

What cultural impact did the Kendrick Lamar thing have? Like is said I'd never fucking heard of it before today.

Have you listened to hip-hop in the passed year fam?

 

[Japanmanx3]

From what everyone is saying it was a rallying point for the black community last year. Personally I wasn't aware of it, but that's hardly surprising. The last album I downloaded was MMLP2...

My point is I don't think it's cultural relevance will be lessened by the fact it didn't win a fucking Grammy. I think you're overstating how important that award is to it becoming revered as a cultural cornerstone.

This I'd literally you at the top of this page:

Seriously? I'd never heard of it until today. 1989 though? Everywhere. Say what you will but 89 had global cultural impact. Truly global.

YOU say that 1989 has cultural impact (of what kind I'm still not sure) and yet in comparison the "Kendrick Lamar thing" didn't get the award but we shouldn't feel bad or anything because thats not taking away from it at all. Right...

Wait...MMLP2 is the last album you-
...oh, ok...

 

[Cesare Borgia]

Honestly you could probably argue the cultural impact is overstated as well. A few videos of people chanting Alright doesn't really convince me the song is a universal anthem for a movement. I'd argue March Madness had more cultural impact as a song by being more popular with young black people.

The geneal sense I've gotten is that a lot of young black people didn't even like the album and were turned off by its sound, the lack of trap production, the lack of bangers, etc. Critical reaction has been very positive but let's not forget the reaction was a lot more mixed from many rap fans, Twitter, etc.

Which goes back to it not being the most accessible album.

 

[breakfuss]

No, Australia.

What cultural impact did the Kendrick Lamar thing have? Like is said I'd never fucking heard of it before today.

I don't mean to discredit you because you're not from the States but maybe apprise yourself to the political and racial climate here. I'm not suggesting Kendrick's album is the first or even the best to address certain topics, but it's rare that you see it attached to such a wildly popular artist. Kendrick for all intents and purposes is as much a pop star as Taylor Swift.

Again, I ask what cultural impact did 1989 have? I am not knocking it. Black Space is a dope song. Max Martin is a genius.

Swift already had the second-best selling country single of all time in 2008. I don't think Kanye had anything to do with her success, whatever he tells himself.

Which is why I said he was being facetious. Stupid line that even a lot fans of the album (and song) agree should've been left out.

 

[Ekai]

Fuck the Grammys

They were always a popularity contest. If you watch the Grammy's expecting your favorite personal music/music with a lot of nuance and depth to win, most of the time most of those albums aren't even going to be acknowledged by these people in the first place.

That said, I never really cared for Kendrick's album (tried listening to it. I just don't like the sound. I am fairly selective with my hip-hop. I can get if people like it but personally the album isn't for me) and T Swizzle's handling of haters is admirable, frankly. Especially in a world that constantly gossips about women in positions such as hers. So, eh. Her songs have a message regarding personal worth that is worth spreading. The sound of the music is also alright. Catchy. Nothing I would include on a top list of all time myself but her positive lyrics are certainly great to have in the music scene.

 

[Granadier]

Which is why I said he was being facetious. Stupid line that even a lot fans of the album (and song) agree should've been left out.

Ahh, I thought you were saying he was using his VMA interrupt as the reason. My bad.