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[KeyBladerXIII]

Her Harry Potter example is absolute nonsense:

Having missed out on the Harry Potter train, I’m stuck in a kind of muggle’s purgatory, unsure what butterbeer is but not interested in watching eight movies (or reading seven books) to find out. (Yes, I can just Google it, but reading about it won’t help me understand why the idea has such a grasp on fans' imaginations.) With each new Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them movie, I will feel myself slipping further away from a generational touchstone

If you're not interested in watching the movies or reading the books, and yet are convinced googling it would be unsatisfactory, why are you complaining about something you know that you cannot understand any other way?

Yes, Fantastic Beasts is taking the Harry Potter world further, and you have no interest in it anyway.

 

[n00bsauce87]

Tom is contracted for SIX movies?

Fucking aye

So when Kevin confirmed that Miles Morales is in the universe, how is he gonna fit in?

 

[Staccat0]

I definitely identify with this. Not so much that I can't find stuff to watch, but I see less big budget films with new ideas and I have less conversations about good movies with other adults than I used to. It's become a bummer for kids movies to be the entire touch-stone for casual conversation in my life.

For the average filmgoer, I can see the problem I guess. But for critics? It's your job to watch movies. You can't squeeze in five or six superhero films a year into your indie circle jerk queue?

I mean... is there any bigger circle jerk than a cinematic universe?

 

[LionPride]

You have a really good point. I forgot Guardians was largely self-contained. Wasn't that because Guardians 1 took place before where we were in the other MCU movies at the time?



When they all tie into each other it's a lot. That's 18 movies to watch before Infinity War.

This isn't the first time a CU has existed, just the first ti be this successful, it's a lot of films, but again, it's been 9 years and 10 come IW. If you wanted to watch em you would have by now instead of waiting for a shitty 40 hour marathon at a theatre full of disgusting people

Also with the article, some of the writer's own mishaps come from laziness.

 

[Palocca]

I know I talk about this series like every other post but I like how the MonsterVerse is handling it. Godzilla and Kong both have standalone movies that you don't need to know anything about to jump right in, and it's looking like it will just be a short 4 movie series that's spread apart, so far at least. I feel like I can't really jump into the Marvel or FF movies as easily.

I think what the critic was getting at was that these cinematic universes are getting to the point where if you haven't really been following since the start, they start to become exclusionary to a person that's interested in only one of the movies.

Godzilla and Kong don't have that problem yet because their story arcs are still at the beginning.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

This is stupid. Like complaining about TV shows. And still too lazy to catch up for yourself, and too demanding to just not care and enjoy the story contained in a single movie.

This is the industry rewarding loyal customers. Stop complaining and stop caring.

 

[Skellig Gra]

Her Harry Potter example is absolute nonsense:



If you're not interested in watching the movies or reading the books, and yet are convinced googling it would be unsatisfactory, why are you complaining about something you know that you cannot understand any other way?

Some hardcore FOMO going on.

 

[Permanently A]

Her Harry Potter example is absolute nonsense:



If you're not interested in watching the movies or reading the books, and yet are convinced googling it would be unsatisfactory, why are you complaining about something you know that you cannot understand any other way?

Yeah, to me its like "What do you mean I can't start at season 5 of breaking bad?"

Not everyone has to watch Breaking Bad, but if you decide you want to watch it, you actually have to, y'know, watch it.

 

[Blader]

The overwhelming majority of popular movies now are part of franchises. MCU, DCEU, Star Wars, Fast and the Furious, X-Men, Pirates, Transformers, Minions, etc etc.

ok, and if you're the kind of person who only watches popular movies but also can't keep up with franchise continuity, I can see why this would be an issue. Otherwise, check out movies that aren't a popular franchise. They're released year round and in major theater chains; they're not just small arthouse releases restricted to November-January windows.

 

[Affeinvasion]

Thank God there are still films like A Field in England that are really easy to follow without any previous knowledge.

 

[Skux]

Nah. Film and TV viewers are much more engaged these days thanks to the internet and the rise of on-demand media.

Many TV shows of the 90s and early 2000s were standalone episodes. Something that a casual viewer could stumble upon when channel surfing and understand what's going on.

But now that viewers can maintain engagement through the internet, and choose to watch whenever they please, TV and film storylines have evolved to take advantage of this. Now we have multi-season arcs from shows like Game of Thrones, and sprawling cinematic universes like Marvel and F&F.

These days there isn't really such a thing as a casual fan. If you're a fan, you're looking up lore on fan wiki sites, you're liking memes on Reddit and Facebook about the characters, and you're always aware of what's happening and how it relates to an event that happened two seasons ago.

And storytelling is better for it, IMO.

 

[Nerdkiller]

1. I disagree original ideas are pushed to the margins, that's not true and never has been

2. Talking specifically about the MCU over the last 9 years, there have been two movies released a year typically, one in the summer/spring and another in the fall. That's not a lot guys

There will be 4 Marvel movies released within a year if we're to go back to Doctor Strange. They seem to be ramping up production, and I expect more along these lines once we get to Phase 4.

 

[otakukidd]

Outside of the Avengers movies, this is pretty much true.

I agree. Outside of civil war and the avengers movie, they all are pretty self-contained besides maybe the stinger. Shit I'm sure the only thing I will need to know about Thor for Thor 3 is the other movies. They aren't going to introduce the hulk and not explain about him. So I don't really see the problem.

 

[thehypocrite]

Good. They are the ones paying for it.

 

[Sojgat]

Being excluded from something popular because you don't want to invest time in it is horrible.

Boo hoo.

 

[Skellig Gra]

ok, and if you're the kind of person who only watches popular movies but also can't keep up with franchise continuity, I can see why this would be an issue. Otherwise, check out movies that aren't a popular franchise. They're released year round and in major theater chains; they're not just small arthouse releases restricted to November-January windows.

It's not an issue for me but I see it with members of my family. They just see it as "Marvel movie 18" which might as well be in another language so they disregard it. They end up just going to movies less or going to the same movie multiple times that they are "comfortable" with.

 

[Glix]

I guess the author isn't 100% incorrect, but he leaves out a TON of stuff to make his point. I guess that is our hot take culture tho

edit - related: My girl and I just watched Dr. Strange, she knows NOTHING about comic books, and she was able to follow and enjoy with no issues. Same for Luke Cage.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Outside of the Avengers movies, this is pretty much true.

Even those are standalone. You don't need to see any other Marvel movie to understand what's happening.

 

[benicillin]

I've skipped most Marvel movies and never felt too left out or missed anything that a friend couldn't catch me up on in five minutes. I'm not going to see Spider-Man and wondering whether or not I should have seen Thor.

It's kind of like a TV series...if you don't want to watch every season that's fine but it doesn't mean you're missing out.

 

[jwk94]

Her Harry Potter example is absolute nonsense:



If you're not interested in watching the movies or reading the books, and yet are convinced googling it would be unsatisfactory, why are you complaining about something you know that you cannot understand any other way?

Yes, Fantastic Beasts is taking the Harry Potter world further, and you have no interest in it anyway.

Yeah, to me its like "What do you mean I can't start at season 5 of breaking bad?"

Not everyone has to watch Breaking Bad, but if you decide you want to watch it, you actually have to, y'know, watch it.

Her Harry Potter argument isn't stupid because it's not the sequel in a long-running franchise. It's a spin-off. A spin-off should definitely pay homage to the main series, but still be accessible enough to newcomers, especially if the OG hasn't aged well. You shouldn't have to do research so you don't feel lost when you're watching the first entry in a franchise.

Even those are standalone. You don't need to see any other Marvel movie to understand what's happening.

Civil War was brought on by events that had been building up from the other movies, though. To know why Tony cares so much and what happened to Pepper, you'd need to know about the Iron Man movies. To know about Wanda, you'd need to watch Avengers too. Who's vision and what's taht thing on his head? Avengers 2. What happened with the dropped a city on something and where's Hulk? Avengers 2.

 

[Just_myles]

As a marvel comics fan my whole life, I love this. I feel I am being rewarded. So keep making them.

As for writers take on this, well, I see it as part of the business that has always been there. The type of characters have changed but, there have always been summer blockbusters.

As for the writer's point about feeling excluded, well, isn't that kind disingenuous? Who doesn't know about Spider-man? Anyone with pulse has seen him in some kind of media of the past, I don't know 50 years. Aside from that, I'm not a Harry potter fan but, I did not in the least bit feel excluded when I decided not to watch it and see all of the promotion and hype.

There is a movie, no media out there for everybody nowadays.

 

[Permanently A]

Her Harry Potter argument isn't stupid because it's not the sequel in a long-running franchise. It's a spin-off. A spin-off should definitely pay homage to the main series, but still be accessible enough to newcomers, especially if the OG hasn't aged well. You shouldn't have to do research so you don't feel lost when you're watching the first entry in a franchise.

Does anyone watch spin-offs without watching the original series?

 

[mjc]

I don't buy the article, although I see where it's coming from. If my entirely non-geeky parents and girlfriend can remember who Marvel characters are, there's no real problem.

I think some people are just pissed that comic movies are so saturated. I do agree that cinematic universes should not be copied on a wide scale, but lets not act like every other movie is a shared universe gig.

 

[LionPride]

Like you know what movie you need to watch to get anything in Winter Soldier? Not a damn thing really. It's not neccessary beyond knowing characters better.

Not needed for any of the Iron Mans because they explain the New York fight in 3

None of the films are really needed to understand another except for direct sequels sometimes

 

[Afrodium]

No MCU movies except direct sequels require being familiar with other films in the universe to follow the plot. Sure, watching the other movies can help you pick up on Easter eggs or better understand who certain characters are, but none of these films are incomprehensible without see other MCU movies. The only movie I could see this being a legitimate problem with would be Civil War if you only followed the Captain America series, and all you really need to know to get up to speed is that Captain America is also part of a superhero team called The Avengers.

 

[Do Better]

I like looking up things on Wikipedia and TV tropes. Learning is fun, but I guess that makes me a nerd.

 

[kunonabi]

My top ten for 2016 didnt have a single super hero movie in it so there is plenty to see.

Heck, we were talking about Thor 3 and how hulk ends up in space and my total non-nerd friend who just watches casually came up with a possible explanation based on thor 2 that the rest of us completely forgot. Average moviegoers can keep up just fine.

 

[PBY]

I don't buy the article, although I see where it's coming from. If my entirely non-geeky parents and girlfriend can remember who Marvel characters are, there's no real problem.

I think some people are just pissed that comic movies are so saturated. I do agree that cinematic universes should not be copied on a wide scale, but lets not act like every other movie is a shared universe gig.

The problem is most comic book movies are trash, even the "good ones."

Most of Marvel's movies are just meh at best, and even Wonder Woman was god awful. Legit don't understand who is impressed by these.

 

[Peltz]

I haven't seen any movie in the Marvel or DC universe this decade. And I will continue not to see them. They have no appeal to me at all.

Everything about a superhero movie just looks average and boring. It's all about explosions and wiz-bang effects. It's not for me.

 

[jwk94]

Does anyone watch spin-offs without watching the original series?

I would think so or spin-off would completely forgo the introduction to its world.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Writer seems to be stating that these franchises, because of their episodic format, are asking for a larger initial investment from new comers that makes it feel exclusionary. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that concept. Which, on it's face value, is true.

Right, so either make the investment in the franchise to keep up, or don't. It's your choice. You don't have to see everything. I try to keep up on the MCU. I don't keep up on Fast & Furious at all. I've missed a handful of Harry Potters, but still saw Fantastic Beasts. It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" approach, and it's definitely not something to complain about.

 

[Permanently A]

I would think so or spin-off would completely forgo the introduction to its world.

If spinoffs adequately introduce the world, then what is the complaint about feeling lost and needing to do research?

 

[Geno Breaker]

I think what the critic was getting at was that these cinematic universes are getting to the point where if you haven't really been following since the start, they start to become exclusionary to a person that's interested in only one of the movies.

Godzilla and Kong don't have that problem yet because their story arcs are still at the beginning.

Yeah I was gonna edit in "of course we're at the beginning so its obviously easier to follow" but it's shaping up to an easy series to get into. As far as we know we're not getting standalone Rodan or Mothra movies and we're already getting into an Avengers tier movie.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Civil War was brought on by events that had been building up from the other movies, though. To know why Tony cares so much and what happened to Pepper, you'd need to know about the Iron Man movies. To know about Wanda, you'd need to watch Avengers too. Who's vision and what's taht thing on his head? Avengers 2. What happened with the dropped a city on something and where's Hulk? Avengers 2.

None of that is necessary information. Its just backstory.

 

[jwk94]

If spinoffs adequately introduce the world, then what is the complaint about feeling lost and needing to do research?

There isn't one lol. Her point is that she felt that Fantastic Beasts didn't adequately introduce the Harry Potter world because she felt like she had to do research to understand something like Butterbeer.

None of that is necessary information. Its just backstory.

The entire main plot of the movie is about everyone's motivations for where they stand on that contract. It's entirely necessary.

 

[Sojgat]

My top ten for 2016 didnt have a single super hero movie in it so there is plenty to see.

Heck, we were talking about Thor 3 and how hulk ends up in space and my total non-nerd friend who just watches casually came up with a possible explanation based on thor 2 that the rest of us completely forgot. Average moviegoers can keep up just fine.

Hold the phone, your friend can remember what happened in Thor 2?

 

[LionPride]

I think what the critic was getting at was that these cinematic universes are getting to the point where if you haven't really been following since the start, they start to become exclusionary to a person that's interested in only one of the movies.

Godzilla and Kong don't have that problem yet because their story arcs are still at the beginning.

It's been 9 years, that's a long ass time to watch some content if you really wanted to

 

[Fancyarcher]

Well considering the various media options these days, it's not surprising that franchises are the films that do the best most of the time. People don't wanna go to the theater anymore, unless it's for a special occasion. Honestly as long as enough of the films are good, I can't complain.

Lol. No they haven't. Focus test groups still control everything.

The only difference now is that focus testing shows that a random character showing up and saying a bunch of nonsense in the after credit sequence of a movie gets people excited.

These movies still operate like normal sequels for the most part. It isn't like they are impossible to follow for anyone who hasn't seen every marvel movie going back to iron man or anything.

Focus test groups are notorious unreliably though, audiences just go to see movies they wanna see.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Oh, Hollywood is Creatively Bankrupt, huh.

Okay.

Sure.

 

[jwk94]

Hold the phone, your friend can remember what happened in Thor 2?

I thought the same thing lol.

It's been 9 years, that's a long ass time to watch some content if you really wanted to

New audiences, man. Spider-man might bring some news fans into the universe.

 

[Sephzilla]

My girlfriend and her mom saw Civil War without seeing Winter Soldier and filled in the gaps pretty quickly. I don't think it's that hard to jump into some of these movies without seeing other stuff first

 

[Meier]

I do understand the concept of this argument. Original big budget films are becoming few and far between.. this is of course an issue with video games as well. But despite the fatigue from some of the series, they're still producing quality iterations so I don't mind it much myself.

 

[Afrodium]

I saw The Fate of the Furious recently having not seen any since 4 and followed it just fine. No, I didn't know the backgrounds if most characters or how they got involved in the street racing/car heist crew, but I didn't need to. It was easy enough to pick up on which characters were lovers, enemies, old rivals forced to work together, comedic relief, etc., and that's all you really need to follow a dumb movie about car stunts. Same goes for movies about people in silly costumes punching each other.

 

[Hydrus]

I agree with the OP. I'm tired of people telling me I should hate a movie because of "OMG they got it all wrong!! WTF is this shit!! Why they bother making this!! This never happened in the books/comics/manga/anime/ !!!".

 

[Tobor]

Disney’s not marching anyone into MCU Summer School at gunpoint

The end.

Don't like it? Don't buy tickets. The rest of us prefer it this way.

 

[Nerdkiller]

Outside of the Avengers movies, this is pretty much true.

I'd add in Civil War too. Not once throughout did I get the sense that that movie was an individual Captain America feature.

This is stupid. Like complaining about TV shows. And still too lazy to catch up for yourself, and too demanding to just not care and enjoy the story contained in a single movie.

This is the industry rewarding loyal customers. Stop complaining and stop caring.

But what if you're the person saying "Yeaaaaah, I want to get in on that"...how do you? How do I, a casual observer, approach a universe that has about a dozen and a half movies and 6 television series with 3 more on the way? That ads up to hundreds of hours of content if you want to catch up with the entire universe. More power to you for keeping up with it from the very start, but what about John and Mary from down the lane?

I guess the author isn't 100% incorrect, but he leaves out a TON of stuff to make his point. I guess that is our hot take culture tho

edit - related: My girl and I just watched Dr. Strange, she knows NOTHING about comic books, and she was able to follow and enjoy with no issues. Same for Luke Cage.

She. The author is a woman.

 

[Palocca]

None of that is necessary information. Its just backstory.

Don't you think the identity of the characters in the movie is necessary information?

It's been 9 years, that's a long ass time to watch some content if you really wanted to

Sure, but let's say you're a person that wants to jump on the MCU train. You have no previous experience with it. Phase 1 was 5 movies? Averaging about 2 hours per film, that's 10 hours of content. Then you have Phase 2, which is another 6? Put all of those together and that can be pretty overwhelming.

Now, you might argue that you could probably just pick and choose the movies that interest you. But the "hook" of the movies are that they feature teasers and cameos that stitch the movies together. You're then asking, who was that? What are they hinting at? So now, you gotta do research or watch the movie they were featured in.

It's largely just FOMO, but I get the issue. It's like trying to jump into the latest season of Law and Order. You'll be able to follow along each episode's plot, but you'll miss out on little backstory/overall arcs.

 

[Timeaisis]

I can't find myself to care about "universe" movies anymore. They seem to never conclude and there's always unresolved plot threads. I much prefer movies that start with a start and finish with a finish, connected universe be damned.

EDIT: Did I just see someone effectively say character motivation isn't necessary?

But for me, there are plenty of standalone stuff I see all the time that is still very good. I guess I do miss big blockbusters that I don't have to know anything about beforehand, though.

 

[Boogs31]

Writer seems to be stating that these franchises, because of their episodic format, are asking for a larger initial investment from new comers that makes it feel exclusionary. I don't get what's so hard to understand about that concept. Which, on it's face value, is true.



The writer of the article is talking about those who haven't watched it and want to get in... it is a high barrier to ask from people.

For movies coming up like Thor 3 and Avengers 3 it would definitely be hard to come in without having seen the previous ones. But isn't that the same for any series of multiple films? You don't just go see Toy Story 3 without seeing the first 2.

Even if you haven't seen any of the previous movies, there have been plenty of first entries into the universe that a newbie could enjoy. Ant Man, Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, and even the upcoming Spiderman and Black Panther movies all introduced/are introducing new characters and worlds.

 

[Skellig Gra]

The end.

Don't like it? Don't buy tickets. The rest of us prefer it this way.

With a statement like that you are kind of proving the author's point.