yes the general purpose Asics used in the PS5 decompress kraken algorithm"And of course, it all works incredibly with the PS5's built-in hardware Kraken decoder."
yes the general purpose Asics used in the PS5 decompress kraken algorithm"And of course, it all works incredibly with the PS5's built-in hardware Kraken decoder."
Weird thread.
So did Ratchet and Clank started looking bad now that it can run on 3900mbps ssd?
Play games, not specs.
I bet people getting upset are same ones who think Series S games don't look good cause it targets 1080p.
The SSD doesn't affect the visuals of Ratchet in the PS5s case. The game looks just as good on the slower drive than the faster one. What does change is how fast the data is accessed from the SSD like Mike stated. In his testing he found a 15% deficit in parts where the I/O was stressed.
Man lolyes the general purpose Asics used in the PS5 decompress kraken algorithm
Not really "very fast", but fast enough.xsx have very fast i/o
Why people give a shit?
Nobody understands what Oodle texture or kraken underground is.
All I know is SSDs are faaassstttt.
Oodles Textures and Kraken are compression formats. And in the PS5s case it can dramatically decrease the install size of a game. And also the patch sizes as well.
Kraken Vs ZLIB: 29% Smaller Game Sizes Losslessly, 297% Faster Decompression on PS5
Kraken VS ZLIB: According to the official graph by RAD Game Tools, Kraken has 29% higher compression ratio over ZLIB (used in PS4 and other platforms), and does it 3-5x faster (doesn't really concern us as gamers, only good for devs). Both Kraken and ZLIB are lossless compressions, meaning data...www.neogaf.com
The NVME that you install to the PS5 had nothing to do with Kraken or Oodles Textures. It's the I/O complex that contains the decompressor for those formats. Kraken and Oodles Textures will work with any NVME that you install to the device.
There is a lot of information out there on Kraken and Oodles Textures. It's up to you if you want to understand it.
Or could be both Xbox's GPU advantage and PS5's SSD advantage only show up on paper and the only time we truly see either being used to its full potential is from first party. It isn't like any graphical differences that favor PS5 or XSX are noticeable without DF using tools to detect them or them stopping gameplay to zoom in and point them out. And SSD differences are negligible in multiplats as far as load times as well. So far, all this is comes out to be a wash.
Man lol
"When a game needs data on PS5, it makes a request to the IO system, which loads compressed data from the SSD; that is then handed to the hardware Kraken decoder, which outputs the decompressed data the game wanted to the RAM. As far the game is concerned, they just get their decompressed data, but with higher throughput. On other platforms, Kraken can be run in software, getting the same compression gains but using CPU time to decode. When using software Kraken, you would first load the compressed data, then when that IO completes perform decompression on the CPU."
"PS5 is the only system with a hardware Kraken decoder, and the only platform with platform-wide license to Oodle Texture so that every game can use it. In theory PC SSD's will keep getting faster, but you would need several CPU cores running software Kraken to match the decompressed bandwidth of the PS5 hardware Kraken. Even then, a typical game on the PC won't be able to achieve that IO speed because of other bottlenecks; once you're going that fast lots of other things in the system software can become problems, you have to address it all through the software."
How Oodle Kraken and Oodle Texture supercharge the IO system of the Sony PS5
The Sony PS5 will have the fastest data loading ever available in a mass market consumer device, and we think it may be even better than yo...cbloomrants.blogspot.com
There is a hardware specialized Kraken decoder between SSD and RAM on PS5.
PS5 has others hardware descompressor units but one of them is specialized in Kraken.
Software Kraken don't... it needs to load the data to RAM and after decompress it with the CPU or other processor.
PS5 doesn't load the data to the RAM to decompress it... it loads already decompressed by the hardware Kraken unit.
BTW Oodle Texture doesn't use the Kraken Decoder unit.
again as this gen goes on and what Xbox has under the hood could see a huge advantage when more taxing games happen, its easy to say. Who knows the PS5 SSD may never be fully used as we think it will
only time will tell as to what may happen, we do know that the PS5 has the better SSD and the Xbox has the better graphical grunt in specs, if we ever see any of this pushing past what the other console is capable of we dont know as of yet
Block diagrams.
To show how things work under the hood in modern games.
Jesus.
It's not my issue that you're not really interested in the tech.
Agree, we don't know that XSX will graphically outpace PS5 in any noticeable way and we don't know that about PS5's SSD either. Right now....it is all just on paper.
again as this gen goes on and what Xbox has under the hood could see a huge advantage when more taxing games happen, its easy to say. Who knows the PS5 SSD may never be fully used as we think it will
only time will tell as to what may happen, we do know that the PS5 has the better SSD and the Xbox has the better graphical grunt in specs, if we ever see any of this pushing past what the other console is capable of we dont know as of yet
The biggest issue is probably the decompression speed won't be fast enough to be used in real time render... so you can use it for slow decompress and store in the RAM but that limit the amount of the RAM to use in the games.That's extremely helpful. It definitely answered some of my questions.
Thank you for that.
I was wondering what would happen if you try to use Kraken on other platforms. Initially thought you could do it with the Series decompressor but that turned out being wrong. You would have to do it via software with the aid of the CPU. That's probably a performance hit that most developers are not willing to take.
I am interested in tech.
But SSD working is above my pay grade.
All I will manage is rudimentary stuff.
I think a huge advantage is just wishful thinking due to how close the systems are. If the PS5 was on par with the XSS I would agree with you. But it wasn't built to compete with a low end next gen console. It was always designed to be a high end one.
Exactly and what we do know so far is that the Xbox generally is ahead in resolution were the ps5 has a couple of fps ahead but we now also know that a slower SSD can work in the ps5 and not really have any difference in games in terms of texture streaming and that the game may take a second longer to load
And we know these things because folks like DF tell us. If I have to have these guys tell me what I can't tell on my own then it doesn't matter anyway.
Sony's SSD is custom from a major manufacturer, not many SSD's even now have a full write speed past 5gb/s. Sony's is 5.5GB/s (Raw), Typical 8-9GB/s (Compressed). Something like that soldered to a board with custom chips they designed for I/O is expensive.
And we know these things because folks like DF tell us. If I have to have these guys tell me what I can't tell on my own then it doesn't matter anyway.
Someone correct me on this, if you get a drive as fast the internal SSD (5.5GB/s) or a drive like the WD_Black SN850 with a 7GB/s read speed, you’re pretty much settled for the entire gen right?Man lol
"When a game needs data on PS5, it makes a request to the IO system, which loads compressed data from the SSD; that is then handed to the hardware Kraken decoder, which outputs the decompressed data the game wanted to the RAM. As far the game is concerned, they just get their decompressed data, but with higher throughput. On other platforms, Kraken can be run in software, getting the same compression gains but using CPU time to decode. When using software Kraken, you would first load the compressed data, then when that IO completes perform decompression on the CPU."
"PS5 is the only system with a hardware Kraken decoder, and the only platform with platform-wide license to Oodle Texture so that every game can use it. In theory PC SSD's will keep getting faster, but you would need several CPU cores running software Kraken to match the decompressed bandwidth of the PS5 hardware Kraken. Even then, a typical game on the PC won't be able to achieve that IO speed because of other bottlenecks; once you're going that fast lots of other things in the system software can become problems, you have to address it all through the software."
How Oodle Kraken and Oodle Texture supercharge the IO system of the Sony PS5
The Sony PS5 will have the fastest data loading ever available in a mass market consumer device, and we think it may be even better than yo...cbloomrants.blogspot.com
There is a hardware specialized Kraken decoder between SSD and RAM on PS5.
PS5 has others hardware descompressor units but one of them is specialized in Kraken.
Software Kraken don't... it needs to load the data to RAM and after decompress it with the CPU or other processor.
PS5 doesn't load the data to the RAM to decompress it... it loads already decompressed by the hardware Kraken unit.
BTW Oodle Texture doesn't use the Kraken Decoder unit.
I don't think it would work otherwise. If the expansion SSD bypassed the decompression block then it would be forced to run on the CPU and performance would plummet.Cause the expansion SSD has access to the Kraken decoder and the rest of the I/O pipeline just like the internal SSD, so the 8-22GB/s read speeds you’re getting is AFTER the data is decompressed by the Kraken decoder. Because of that, all you need for an expansion drive is something that can deliver the uncompressed data to the Kraken decoder AS FAST AS the internal SSD or something a bit faster than that because of the whole 6v2 priority lane issue.
I'm annoyed that Jim's policy changes and step backwards into hdd era PC and PS4 cross-development retroactively make Mark Cerny of all people look like a goof. I want games pushing the system and making use of all its unique benefits, and the higher speed SSD expansions to actually be a necessity.
I'm looking around and coming to the conclusion that Layden and Cerny had one vision for PS5, and Hulst and Ryan undermined it to maximise profits selling to a wider audience which ultimately serves to devalue PS5 itself.
Again its the same with the SSD its better in the ps5 but not huge over Xbox, we will see if there is much of an advantage going forward
There won't be, Microsoft just attacked the same issue in a different way with hardware support for Sampler Feedback Streaming, Intel just did a presentation on it and it gives up to three times the performance.
It's going to be a game changer for Xbox consoles.
So when's the Series I/O going to surpass the PS5s?
It doesn't need to, instead of moving lots of data very quickly SFS means you just move a lot less data for the same result, it's fundamental part of VA.
Yeah, both systems have very similar ways of achieving similar end results (including limiting how much data you need to transfer) at different speed. We are still at the point where some are trying to suggest a brain vs brawn battle where one side is super efficient and the other side is just brute forcing things .Sounds like what the PS5 is doing.
Three times the performance against what baseline or edge case? Still the same argument and way of handling repeated ad nauseam. Then again you are free to show that 3x the performance is against a similarly optimised demo using PS5’s PRT backed texture streaming systems.There won't be, Microsoft just attacked the same issue in a different way with hardware support for Sampler Feedback Streaming, Intel just did a presentation on it and it gives up to three times the performance.
It's going to be a game changer for Xbox consoles.
Three times the performance against what baseline or edge case? Still the same argument and way of handling repeated ad nauseam.
PRT is built in the HW what are you talking about? You are pulling your 3x efficiency multiplier out of thin air again and again btw. You are trying to suggest virtual texturing solutions on PS5 or with systems not using PRT+ (oops I mean SFS) are 3x less efficient and thus over fetch or waste fully fetch 3x the data as SFS based solutions in the general case without supporting data (MS themselves are not claiming it either… ).Against the software solution for the same process, that's why full hardware support just like has been proven for Tier 2 VRS will be so important.
Intel and AMD "made it up"PRT is built in the HW, you are pulling your 3x efficiency multiplier out of thin air again and again. The “SSD speed gap is not important” and “Ok so even if it were we have this ace in the hole that boost efficiency 3x over them so we still win”. There is a weird obsession with having to win every benchmark even by making things up when trying to belittle such benchmark does not stick.
Yeah, both systems have very similar ways of achieving similar end results (including limiting how much data you need to transfer) at different speed. We are still at the point where some are trying to suggest a brain vs brawn battle where one side is super efficient and the other side is just brute forcing things .
What I have got to give MS props to is that their solution seems to require less effort by devs to see a speed up while Sony ones requires native ports and a bit more effort to get results in more cases.
No, you are . Because the belittling the I/O speed delta did not stick as well as you wanted to and you cannot bear not winning every single numeric epeen game apparently.Intel and AMD "made it up"
I would not call it that either, but that is the argument being made to entertain this absurd idea that SFS is helping MS get this 3x efficiency boost over their competition.I wouldn't call Sony's a "brute force approach". They did a lot to eliminate bottlenecks to make the I/O efficient. It's not like Sony are being dumb with their I/o.
I didn't "belittle" anything.No, you are . Because the belittling the I/O speed delta did not stick as well as you wanted to and you cannot bear not winning every single numeric epeen game apparently.
I like their approach, it works wonderfully for BC titles and even for cross generation games. Seems like XVA is a bit easier to gets its potential out than I thought and I am enjoying it. You are taking a statement “SFS can improve efficiency and lower the cost of implementing a good virtual texturing solution” and then stretching it to mean 3x common case boost because it conveniently helps in a numeric e-peen contest .I didn't "belittle" anything.
Xbox has a different approach to the same problem, why are you upset by that?
I like their approach, it works wonderfully for BC titles and even for cross generation games. Seems like XVA is a bit easier to gets it’s potential out than I thought and I am enjoying it.
You are projecting here Riky.
Keeping on not reading what people type and bam ready for more console war gloating .It hasn't even started yet, we're only just seeing the start of the implementation of Tier 2 VRS which is the easiest but least performance saving hardware supported feature, SFS only went into the GDK in May from what has been reported so I doubt we'll see any games utilising it for a while. When the cross gen period finishes we will see the results clearly.
Keeping on not reading what people type and bam ready for more console war gloating .
You are in fact the one "belittling" facts, claiming it works well for BC and cross gen games in your post above when you know full well not one of those games uses SFS which is what we are discussing, disingenuous as usual.
There is no "gloating" , the facts are that Xbox has hardware support for certain performance saving features, people tried to deny it when announced by AMD themselves claiming it was all just DX12U naming but as we've seen with Tier 2 VRS it turned out to be exactly what AMD said it was.
I like how you are getting hot and bothered about this. You are just seeing red like a raging bull seeing backhanded compliments when I was actually praising it.
Engineering wise the outcome matters.
So if games, without having to receive extensive reworks or proper native versions or even better for BC titles no change to the original game at all, are improved by the Xbox I/O solution (the XVA) better than I see it on the other side and you see that as me belittling it?!? The issue is with you Riky.
I don't know why you're bringing up BC and cross gen games again, we're talking about a roadmap to next gen games and what approach the two companies have to the same issue.
The fact old games work better than ever on new hardware is hardly revolutionary but it's welcome.
MS obviously didn't feel the need to have a faster SSD as the XVA is more than just raw speed, that's only a part of it and having the full hardware support for all the performance saving RDNA2 features is just as important.
I'm not "hot and bothered" at all I just find it hilarious you create an agenda of downplaying features that nobody said by doing exactly that yourself.
PS5 trouncing monster you thought you had been promised.
They indeed are fantastic systems and I feel more unique compared to each other than Xbox One and PS4 actually weirdly enough.I also fell for that with the initial round of rumors. Really though the XSX would make the PS5 look really bad in comparison. Just happy that they are both fantastic systems.