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[Darkstorne]

Now they're all going to demand that London pays for all that gravy. I won't be happy to see those people suffer, but they'll pretty much deserve it and I'm not planning on sticking around to be part of the workforce paying for their bad decisions.

I feel the same way. As much as 75% of young people voted to Remain. It was the older generations, those responsible for the great depression that today's working force had to pay the brunt of, that voted us into this mess. This time, they can bloody well foot the bill. They want to leave and either cause a second recession or massive inflation? Hell no. The banks shouldn't risk inflation, the money should come from pensions, immediately. No more pensions. The young workers of today are already paying for the older generation's pensions because they mismanaged finances so poorly. I want that to stop, and the money we pay to go towards our own pensions. Any pensions the older generations have should stop being paid to them, and instead go towards funding everything the EU funded since they wanted out so badly.

Yes, I'm bitter and angry about this. I refuse to pay for my parent's generation's mistakes AGAIN. Their decision, so they can pay for the consequences.

 

[RedSparrows]

Who is they here, exactly?

People think Farage is a tit (rightly so) and call him out as being a lying pig over every claim he makes, yet are choosing to accept his claim about a movement he wasn't a part of (albeit one aiming for roughly the same thing) lying about their campaign.

The leave vote is not a vote for Nigel Farage and neither he personally nor his party have won anything here, and there's not much indication to go on thus far that any direction the country goes in from here will involve him in any way. He's going to be throwing as many spanners in the works of a Boris lead UK out of Europe as he tried to under a Cameron lead Britain in Europe. The £350m might be a lie and Farage might be right about that, but there's a degree of hypocrisy amongst those choosing to just flat out believe him now about this because it suits their agenda.

It's not hypocrisy. Farage said the truth, for once and did so to distance himself from.a claim that was seemingly very powerful with voters. He and his camp did not use it/dream it up, but you can bet all your pennies that the average Leave voter bundled Farage's points and that slogan into one package. Farage and his club made hay out of it. To then get technical about it is immaterial. The effect was there.

 

[BigDes]

The browns are comin' to get ya!

This is basically what I thought.

Been a few posters popping up in the last few days who are seemingly following the Far-right subreddit plan to infiltrate other web communities to a t.

 

[jakonovski]

Yeah that was all said yesterday.

They want it sorted asap. We realistically want to take as along as we can.

I thought you wanted out of the EU. Do you just want to make life suck for everyone or what?

 

[oti]

Foreign minister Netherlands: "I don't think my country is more EU-skeptic than the others."

Foreign minister Luxembourg: "If there's no immediate letter from the UK (invoking art. 50) we are afraid the referendum won't be respected. Problem is art. 50 can only be invoked by the UK. We hope UK isn't playing games with the EU."

 

[darkwing]

Can someone either explain or link me to an article that explains why the Scottish vote was so heavily in favour of remain. I haven't really been following that aspect of this whole issue.

Scotland wants to be part of EU?

 

[Joni]

Can someone either explain or link me to an article that explains why the Scottish vote was so heavily in favour of remain. I haven't really been following that aspect of this whole issue.

The United Kingdom worked really heavily on the 'better together' angle during the Scottish referendum.

 

[Carl2291]

I feel the same way. As much as 75% of young people voted to Remain. It was the older generations, those responsible for the great depression that today's working force had to pay the brunt of, that voted us into this mess. This time, they can bloody well foot the bill. They want to leave and either cause a second recession or massive inflation? Hell no. The banks shouldn't risk inflation, the money should come from pensions, immediately. No more pensions. The young workers of today are already paying for the older generation's pensions because they mismanaged finances so poorly. I want that to stop, and the money we pay to go towards our own pensions. Any pensions the older generations have should stop being paid to them, and instead go towards funding everything the EU funded since they wanted out so badly.

Yes, I'm bitter and angry about this. I refuse to pay for my parent's generation's mistakes AGAIN. Their decision, so they can pay for the consequences.

What's the cut off age? Who's pensions are you taking?

 

[Moosichu]

eh 2 years is a long time for an exit strategy anyway

2 years is nothing.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

any streams for the sturgeon thing?

Can someone either explain or link me to an article that explains why the Scottish vote was so heavily in favour of remain. I haven't really been following that aspect of this whole issue.

Scotland is actually quite inclusive and progressive it would seem

 

[Boy Wander]

Scotland wants to be part of EU?

I get that! I'm interested more in why the discrepancy north and south of the border. What is it that they see that 53% of England doesn't.

 

[RedShift]

Sturgeon can bang on all she wants without authorisation from Westminster an independence referendum holds no legal weight.

We need unity more than ever just now. This just causes greater divisions

What are you going to do when they hold the referendum anyway and then unilaterally declare independence? Roll in the tanks?

If Scotland wants to leave England can't realistically stop them.

 

[paperboywriter]

Why is corbyn giving his pk at the same time as the foreign ministers?

 

[oti]

Press conference over.
Summary: EU wants Article 50 ASAP.

 

[kmag]

First Leave admits the 350m EU funds per week won't go to NHS, and now, they admit that their claims about immigration may not have been true. That didn't take too long.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending

Oh

On another front, Liam Fox has cast doubt on the necessity of triggering the article 50 clause of the Lisbon treaty that sets out the legal process for a country’s EU withdrawal.

“A lot of things were said in advance of this referendum that we might want to think about again and that [invoking article 50] is one of them,” said the Conservative MP.

 

[Carl2291]

I thought you wanted out of the EU. Do you just want to make life suck for everyone or what?

I'm just thinking about it realistically.

We will want to take as long as possible to create as many trade deals as we can before we completely leave. It's common sense. Leaving today would fuck us completely. Leaving in 3 or 4 years time is another matter.

 

[Boy Wander]

The United Kingdom worked really heavily on the 'better together' angle during the Scottish referendum.

I have to say if I was Scottish I'd be pissed off big-time. They've been sold down the river if EU membership was a big theme of the campaign for them to stay in the UK.

 

[Audioboxer]

Sturgeon can bang on all she wants without authorisation from Westminster an independence referendum holds no legal weight.

We need unity more than ever just now. This just causes greater divisions

Scottish people aren't going to stick around because English are upset about the Union. We voted to stay (100% of locations, by 24% of the vote) and England is taking us out. There's going to be another ref.

any streams for the sturgeon thing?



Scotland is actually quite inclusive and progressive it would seem

Couldn't find one. STV news FB was suppose to have it. It'll be recorded and released at some point.

 

[Alx]

Holy shit at what the EU is saying right now.
Looks like they can trigger article 50?

Not really. Maybe some translations are approximative, but the recurrent idea is that "we must start negociations ASAP", not "we will force UK to do it". They'll put all the pressure they can on the UK government, but nobody has claimed EU can trigger it by itself.

 

[Gormless Noodle]

Press conference over.
Summary: EU wants Article 50 ASAP.

Somehow this sort of strikes me as odd. That they're so eager with it I mean, was the UK holding them back on a lot of issues? Or am I reading too much into that?

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Press conference over.
Summary: EU wants Article 50 ASAP.

It only makes sense. The EU needs to think about its member states now and it would be unfair to plunge them into uncertainty for petty internal Torry issues

 

[PdotMichael]

Oh

Just misunderstood souls.

 

[Arksy]

Somehow this sort of strikes me as odd. That they're so eager with it I mean, was the UK holding them back on a lot of issues? Or am I reading too much into that?

It's causing markets to panic due to the uncertainty, they want to do this ASAP so that markets will settle.

 

[nOoblet16]

Not really. Maybe some translations are approximative, but the recurrent idea is that "we must start negociations ASAP", not "we will force UK to do it". They'll put all the pressure they can on the UK government, but nobody has claimed EU can trigger it by itself.

Yea it's basically EU not wanting to be held hostage for long because it makes it look weak. They will out pressure on UK and that's probably what they mean when they ay UK will also have to respect the other 27 nations.

But at the end of the day only UK can trigger it.

 

[Moosichu]

Somehow this sort of strikes me as odd. That they're so eager with it I mean, was the UK holding them back on a lot of issues? Or am I reading too much into that?

It's just uncertainty is super damaging to the EU, and the more article 50 is delayed, the more the EU is damaged by Tory party squabbling.

 

[fanboi]

Protesters against Donald Trump chase a man leaving a Trump campaign rally in California. Photo: AP

Here you have a Koala bear

Same relevance

 

[jellies_two]

Press conference over.
Summary: EU wants Article 50 ASAP.

They might want it. But they can't demand it. In fact if they try to demand it and change the speed at which a member country wants to decide its *own* fate it does rather show how much subjugation is really expected by member states to Brussels when Brussels is unhappy about something.
Perhaps article 50 was rather slapdash from an eu perspective? Quel surprise: they may redo it before the next exit if there is one.

 

[Maximus P]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36626409

German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier says the EU must not fall into "depression and paralysis" after the UK voted to leave the bloc.

He made the comments arriving for an urgent meeting of the six EU founder members to discuss the decision.

They will consider the process and speed of Britain's exit, and are also likely to discuss how to dissuade others from doing the same.

Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron has said he will step down by October.

The six countries attending the talks in Berlin - Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands - first joined forces in the 1950s and still form the core of the EU.

"We cannot rush headlong into hectic action, pretending we have all the answers, but after the British decision we also cannot fall into depression and paralysis," Mr Steinmeier said.
EU 'taken hostage'

The first summit of EU leaders with no British representation will be held on Wednesday, a day after Mr Cameron holds talks with members.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

sturgeon is on sky news now

http://news.sky.com/watch-live

 

[Gormless Noodle]

It's causing markets to panic due to the uncertainty, they want to do this ASAP so that markets will settle.

It's just uncertainty is super damaging to the EU, and the more article 50 is delayed, the more the EU is damaged by Tory party squabbling.

Ah right, that makes sense, yeah.

 

[Rolodzeo]

Somehow this sort of strikes me as odd. That they're so eager with it I mean, was the UK holding them back on a lot of issues? Or am I reading too much into that?

Schulz said that the UK was holding the EU back in several aspects.

 

[jelly]

A 'simple' in/out vote was an utter disaster.
And you are suggesting a more nuanced vote on what system the public wants?

I mean have another vote but yes to remaining as before or do you accept the new deal they work out?

That's simple enough and a fair question. People voted for out but not for a shit deal.

 

[darkwing]

lol what if UK invokes Article 50 only a year later

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Would very much enjoy seeing parliament scramble today to discuss the ongoing requests for a second referendum

 

[kmag]

Yeah that was all said yesterday.

They want it sorted asap. We realistically want to take as along as we can.

Take what they'll just not negotiate with you until you invoke article 50 in the mean time they'll cut you out of everything they can

The notion they have to spend an indeterminate amount of time negotiating before negotiating is nonsense they're well within their rights to tell you to fuck off and come back when you've got the balls to actually pull the trigger

Europe is frankly tired of the U.K.s pish

 

[PdotMichael]

They might want it. But they can't demand it. In fact if they try to demand it and change the speed at which a member country wants to decide its *own* fate it does rather show how much subjugation is really expected by member states to Brussels when Brussels is unhappy about something.

lol, subjugation.

Do what your people voted for is the new subjugation.

 

[Darkstorne]

What's the cut off age? Who's pensions are you taking?

That's what I'd like to spend the next two years figuring out. So long as they're the one's who pay for this, since it's their fault, I can find some measure of justice from this colossal fuck-up.

 

[paperboywriter]

So how can the eu pressure Britain into art.50 ?

 

[Joelstinton14]

Somehow this sort of strikes me as odd. That they're so eager with it I mean, was the UK holding them back on a lot of issues? Or am I reading too much into that?

Two things really, Their economy, and to be shown being strict and showing other potential leavers the consequences of leaving.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

So how can the eu pressure Britain into art.50 ?

probably if britain refuses they might just cut off all deal making

 

[BigDes]

I get that! I'm interested more in why the discrepancy north and south of the border. What is it that they see that 53% of England doesn't.

England has traditionally been an isolationist sea power. Very inward looking. Lots of historical reasons for this, stemming from the reformation to the industrial revolution to the battle of britain and hundreds of other events in time.

Scotland is not an isolationist country. Scotland has always been an outward looking country. With things like the Auld Alliance, Scotland has also had strong links to European countries such as France.

Now a lot of these reasons go back hundreds of years. I also suspect that in Scotland there was much less constant badgering of the EU in the press.

 

[darkwing]

So how can the eu pressure Britain into art.50 ?

nothing really, there is no deadline to invoke article 50, UK can invoke it in 5 years if they want lol

 

[kmag]

I'm just thinking about it realistically.

We will want to take as long as possible to create as many trade deals as we can before we completely leave. It's common sense. Leaving today would fuck us completely. Leaving in 3 or 4 years time is another matter.

You can't create trade deals while in the eu you need to leave first the others can take you to court if you try

 

[Maximus P]

It sounds more likely Scotland are staying. Going from 'highly likely' to 'it's an option'.

 

[norinrad]

Sturgeon can bang on all she wants without authorisation from Westminster an independence referendum holds no legal weight.

We need unity more than ever just now. This just causes greater divisions

Scotland won't be joining anything. France and Spain have their own issues with certain parts of their people wanting to break away. If Scotland becomes a country, so will Catalonia and it might not end there. There maybe lots of clueless people in Brussels but they are not that blind.

 

[oti]

nothing really, there is no deadline to invoke article 50, UK can invoke it in 5 years if they want lol

That would mean utter chaos.

 

[Carl2291]

Take what they'll just not negotiate with you until you invoke article 50 in the mean time they'll cut you out of everything they can

The notion they have to spend an indeterminate amount of time negotiating before negotiating is nonsense they're well within their rights to tell you to fuck off and come back when you've got the balls to actually pull the trigger

Europe is frankly tired of the U.K.s pish

I posted about it in the other thread.

We will want a stable government before we start negotiations. I fully expect whoever takes over the Tories to call a GE before we push the button.

 

[Pankratous]

It sounds more likely Scotland are staying. Going from 'highly likely' to 'it's an option'.

It's still highly likely. She said in her opening speech yesterday that it was also 'an option'.

 

[Audioboxer]

It sounds more likely Scotland are staying. Going from 'highly likely' to 'it's an option'.

The SNP are as pro-independence as you get. They will move on this. Nicola doesn't want to have to resign like Salmond though, so it will be coy for now.

Probably trying to negotiate with the EU behind doors and make sure we will retain membership, or have a good possibility to. The Better Together campaign is going to go full ham spreading fear we won't get into the EU.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

I think that is exactly right.
People in the UK raging should consider it could have been an occupy-london sit-in that goes bad with bullets, or something else more nasty. The establishment in the UK was never going to put an option on a referendum that was completely unworkable. But either way, there is another project that is late and un-ignorable: stop ignoring half the population. Educate them, improve their opportunities, whatever it takes. Because if Remain is right and they voted for a poorer choice, that problem hasn't been solved.

Occupy and the London youth riots that followed were far far far far less destructive than this.

This is a riot that will be felt 40 years from now.

I lived in Catford when the riots were happening. The whole thing resolved itself in a week.