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[Orta]

No optical drive? So how is BC going to work?

 

[Tulipanzo]

Why would someone buy a X1X? It is inferior in every way. Just because its an old gen system... and 6.2 teraflopa are not equal to the Series S 4 tFlops...its a new architecture GPU and the CPU is exactly same as the Series X and is a quantum leap from previous gen. What wre you talking about?

6TF Polaris > 4TF RDNA2, plus it has more RAM. Effectively, 4K enchancements for X1 games won't apply (it's a 1080p device after all).

Still:
- X1X is much cheaper
- Runs 4K enchancements
- Has a disc-drive
- Plays the same games (for 2 years)
If you're waiting on the XSX to get a bit cheaper, buying it for pennies with GP for a couple years seems a much better option.

 

[DonF]

Next gen is going to be competitive! If both Ms and Sony fight for price, the consumers win.

More boxes on people's houses, higher install base, more risky games.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Just ignore the other guy, you're right.

I remember a video on GDC from a developer that worked on a company that ported games to various platforms.

He said porting games to consoles was more stressful because they had a big checklist of requirements that had to be completed.

You then submit your game, and if something goes wrong on QA, it can take weeks to get a reply and submit your game again, especially if you're a small fish in the industry.

On pc is a lot less strict. That's why we see some bizarre games on Steam

So he is right? It's double the effort to make a game on MS console vs any competition? You really believe that?

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

The bolded is the thing I just refuse to believe. I've seen Gaffers say this a lot lately, but I think it ignores that their needs to be demand for something before consumers decide to buy it. Millions of people worldwide aren't going to buy the XSS "just" because it's the new thing on shelves. MS will have to give those people a reason to demand or want an XSS. And if the choice is a $299 disc-less XSS and a $399 disc-less PS5, I'm not sure the majority will go with the XSS.

No version of PS5 is going to be $399 lol... Probably $450-$500 minimum.

 

[Calverz]

Target is 1440p at 60fps?? Fuck that is awesome if they can pull that off. Might buy it to supplement my x and connect to my 1440p monitor upstairs.

 

[tkscz]

6TF Polaris > 4TF RDNA2, plus it has more RAM. Effectively, 4K enchancements for X1 games won't apply (it's a 1080p device after all).

Still:
- X1X is much cheaper
- Runs 4K enchancements
- Has a disc-drive
- Plays the same games (for 2 years)
If you're waiting on the XSX to get a bit cheaper, buying it for pennies with GP for a couple years seems a much better option.

How did you determine that 6TF Polaris was better than 4TF RDNA2? Also, two more gigs of GDDR5 still doesn't match with GDDR6. The XBX runs base XBO games at 4k, I doubt it could run a game made specifically for XSX at 1080p (in fact, devs are having a hard time making exactly that happen), where the XSS is made to run them at 1440p.

 

[WatDat]

6TF Polaris > 4TF RDNA2, plus it has more RAM. Effectively, 4K enchancements for X1 games won't apply (it's a 1080p device after all).

Still:
- X1X is much cheaper
- Runs 4K enchancements
- Has a disc-drive
- Plays the same games (for 2 years)
If you're waiting on the XSX to get a bit cheaper, buying it for pennies with GP for a couple years seems a much better option.

Does being consistently wrong become a bit exhusting?

 

[Tulipanzo]

How did you determine that 6TF Polaris was better than 4TF RDNA2? Also, two more gigs of GDDR5 still doesn't match with GDDR6. The XBX runs base XBO games at 4k, I doubt it could run a game made specifically for XSX at 1080p (in fact, devs are having a hard time making exactly that happen), where the XSX is made to run them at 1440p.

IPC gains over base GCN are 1.25, but X1X is Polaris, a more advanced version.
EDIT: There. 4 Lockhart TFs is about 4.72 X1X/Polaris TFs, per DF's testing

3DMark's graphics scores on its established Firestrike DX11 and TimeSpy DX12 benchmarks are our first port of call. Firestrike shows a 23 per cent boost in throughput between Tahiti and Polaris, and a lesser 18 per cent uplift from Polaris to Navi. End to end, by stacking up those two percentage gains, the improvement is around 45 per cent overall. The usefulness of 3DMark is often called into question, but as we'll see on the next page, this figure is close to actual gaming performance under DirectX11.

RAM is faster, but it has less of it.

What this means is that X1X 4K enhancements won't translate directly, but devs would have to make new patches specifically for Series S.
It makes sense considering it's a 1080p device, so why would it need those in the first place?

It gets muddier considering MS isn't making next-gen exclusives for the next two years, so those CPU/SSD gains wouldn't be stressed.

Does being consistently wrong become a bit exhusting?

You're right, drive-by posts where you don't explain your reasoning at all sound far less "exhusting"

 

[PSNplanetcolony]

4tf....so we are getting fake 1080p?? Can't wait to hear from Dusk Golem

 

[Rentahamster]

As a community of enthusiasts, it's hard to say exactly how the masses will react to this. I have no interest at all in this, but then again, I'm not a casual.

 

[Sir Vilhelm]

Backward compatibility but no disk drive so you can buy all your games again digitally? Very consumer friendly.

I haven't bought a disk since 2011. Same with a lot of people.

 

[tkscz]

IPC gains over base GCN are 1.25, but X1X is Polaris, a more advanced version.
RAM is faster, but it has less of it.

What this means is that X1X 4K enhancements won't translate directly, but devs would have to make new patches specifically for Series S.
It makes sense considering it's a 1080p device, so why would it need those in the first place?

It gets muddier considering MS isn't making next-gen exclusives for the next two years, so those CPU/SSD gains wouldn't be stressed.


You're right, drive-by posts where you don't explain your reasoning at all sound far less "exhusting"

Can't really say how much more advanced the XBX Polaris is over the RDNA2 in the XSS as we don't really have that much detail on the both of them to make that comparison, unless you do in which link please.

50% transfer rates is a big enough gap in speed to easily make up the different in physical amount. Sure, it can't store as much data, but at the rate it transfers data, it wouldn't need to. From what I remember when GDDR6 was being introduced, it was said that 4GBs of GDDR6 is the equivalent of 8GBs of GDDR5 (though this could be hyperbole PR).

 

[Stilton Disco]

As a community of enthusiasts, it's hard to say exactly how the masses will react to this. I have no interest at all in this, but then again, I'm not a casual.

If they still made console exclusives and it had a disc drive, I would be all over this as a cheap second console and BC machine for the stack of X1 and 360 games I still have in a box in the attic.

As it stands it's just a nice way to hold back XSX games enough that I'll have less I'll need to spend on a Laptop, that will play them fine.

 

[hemo memo]

No optical drive? So how is BC going to work?

It’s a cheap Gamepass machine. Probably coming with free month subscription.

 

[Tulipanzo]

Can't really say how much more advanced the XBX Polaris is over the RDNA2 in the XSS as we don't really have that much detail on the both of them to make that comparison, unless you do in which link please.

50% transfer rates is a big enough gap in speed to easily make up the different in physical amount. Sure, it can't store as much data, but at the rate it transfers data, it wouldn't need to. From what I remember when GDDR6 was being introduced, it was said that 4GBs of GDDR6 is the equivalent of 8GBs of GDDR5 (though this could be hyperbole PR).

We can, and in fact DF did it here: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2019-teraflop-face-off-current-gen-vs-next-gen

The point isn't how much better the hardware is (though the TF gap is still not made up for), but that content made with the X1X in mind won't translate to the Series S, which makes perfect sense considering it's a 1080p device.
A dev could get more out of its faster RAM/CPU/SSD, but they'd have to patch their older games specifically for it, to then sell to a 1080p audience, which seems doubtful.

 

[sojuwarrior]

It's slightly better than an Xbox One X due to the CPU and SSD.

surprised to hear this is only slightly better than xbox one x...

 

[GrayFoxPL]

"Enthusiast Price" is pure gold.

Marketing guys:

 

[cireza]

If this console actually gets all the next-gen games at a 300$ price point, they are going to sell a ton of it. Much more than Series X.

I guess we need to see how third parties take into consideration this system, or if they ignore it entirely and make Series X only games.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Wait I thought XSX was PCI E 4.0?

 

[geordiemp]

Not sure what planet you are on buddy but when mommy or daddy walk into the store to buy their son the latest toy this holiday season and they see the following

Xbox Series S - $299
Xbox Series X - $499
PS5 Digital - $549
PS5 Physicial - $599

They won't even have any second thoughts.

They not gonna worry about your double SSDs speeds or 12 tFlop numbers or 1440p vs 4K.

Bookmarked, will come back to your prediction and we can have a laugh.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

You're forgetting one key piece. There are still millions who are satisfied with their 1080p sets. They would view the XSS as the 'right fit' for them and the extra expense on a 4k console a 'waste'.

If this market is large enough this is nothing but a win for MS.

Why would 1080p be the deciding factor?

 

[WatDat]

IPC gains over base GCN are 1.25, but X1X is Polaris, a more advanced version.
EDIT: There. 4 Lockhart TFs is about 4.72 X1X/Polaris TFs, per DF's testing


RAM is faster, but it has less of it.

What this means is that X1X 4K enhancements won't translate directly, but devs would have to make new patches specifically for Series S.
It makes sense considering it's a 1080p device, so why would it need those in the first place?

It gets muddier considering MS isn't making next-gen exclusives for the next two years, so those CPU/SSD gains wouldn't be stressed.


You're right, drive-by posts where you don't explain your reasoning at all sound far less "exhusting"

Take a nap.

 

[Tulipanzo]

surprised to hear this is only slightly better than xbox one x...

To boil it down on Lockhart vs X1X:
- CPU/SSD much better
- Less RAM, but faster
- Less powerful GPU, even though it's more advanced
What this means is that older games will run at X1 settings (or need new patches).

Still, the major issue long-term is that developers would need to dedicate extra optimization to it. Think of how games consistently run the worst on X1S, only with the baseline power being about 3 times higher, and much less RAM.

 

[Codes 208]

No optical drive? So how is BC going to work?

It’s BC to your digital library.

something something digital future

 

[TheContact]

Getting all that hardware under 250 watts is an engineering marvel tbh

 

[Elder Legend]

Don’t bother. He doesn’t get it. (And likely won’t be getting an Xbox anyways.)

Yeah i am starting to notice that. The straws that he is grasping for are starting to show. The fanboyism disease is real.

 

[Elder Legend]

First off, do you have data to back that up? What does "majority of average casual crowd" even mean. What is a casual? How do you measure that? PS3 beat 360 long term and was more expensive. PS2 beat everything and was cheaper. Gamecube was the cheapest of its gen and lost. Wii was a bit cheaper I think and dominated. But what is the commonality? All of the "winning" platforms had the software that people wanted.

So many theories being kicked around how Microsoft is going to rise from the ashes like a "Phoenix from Arizona", but the thing constantly ignored is the fact they are getting bad press, and bad numbers in terms of the online interest. They slashed prices on Xbox One like crazy and that still did nothing. So how is a low price on Xbox Series S going to move that needle? Now you can play the same stuff as on the One with your new system, but for maybe 300 bucks?

Sorry, but your facts aren't facts.

The PS3 almost killed the entire PlayStation division. If that generation did not last as long as it did, PS would not exist today.

 

[WatDat]

Yeah i am starting to notice that. The straws that he is grasping for are starting to show. The fanboyism disease is real.

The fantastic Flight Simulator reviews are only making he and his team even CRAZIER. It’s kinda entertaining, though. Not gonna lie.....

 

[DarkMage619]

Giving people options isn't a bad thing. Nvidia isn't hurting the PC market by making GTX 2050s AND GTX 2080 Tis. Games endure.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

The PS3 almost killed the entire PlayStation division. If that generation did not last as long as it did, PS would not exist today.

PS3 came out a year later,cost significantly more than the 360/Wii,had better rated exclusives than the 360 and outsold it in lifetime sales.

Most importantly with Sony making the right choices in it's latter years...PS3 laid the carpet down for the PS4 which went on to dominant this generation.

 

[sojuwarrior]

the screenshot mentions xbox series x exclusives, does that mean there will be games that won't work at all on xbox series s?

 

[EliTheIceMan]

I am telling you man, series S has so much potential and Microsoft despite not having major games at launch, has the potential to outsell PS5 because of Series S pricing. I don't see Sony pricing their PS5 DE anywhere as low as Series S.

PlayStation fans will buy the PS5 no way the xss will outsell the ps5 worldwide only in the states people still like disk though so that may also affect it my take is that MS will want to sell the XSs to make money that they lose with the XSX

 

[WatDat]

PlayStation fans will buy the PS5 no way the xss will outsell the ps5 worldwide only in the states people still like disk though so that may also affect it my take is that MS will want to sell the XSs to make money that they lose with the XSX

You keyboard has both a ‘period’ key and a ‘comma’ key, ya know.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Not sure what planet you are on buddy but when mommy or daddy walk into the store to buy their son the latest toy this holiday season and they see the following

Xbox Series S - $299
Xbox Series X - $499
PS5 Digital - $549
PS5 Physicial - $599

They won't even have any second thoughts.

Didn’t you say you write for a gaming site? And this is the trash you write?

XSX 50$ less expensive than the PS5 DE?

Check your bias mate, good lord. Embarrassing how many Xbox fanboys got a job writing videogame news. Is this because you love underdogs and somehow makes you feel like you are “fighting the system”?

 

[geordiemp]

Didn’t you say you write for a gaming site? And this is the trash you write?

XSX 50$ less expensive than the PS5 DE?

Check your bias mate, good lord. Embarrassing how many Xbox fanboys got a job writing videogame news. Is this because you love underdogs and somehow makes you feel like you are “fighting the system”?

Just because he writes for a gaming site does not mean he has to know anything about hardware, as you should know by the crap we read everyday,

 

[WatDat]

Didn’t you say you write for a gaming site? And this is the trash you write?

OMG, seriously? What cyber hobo asswipe ”blog” is it? LInk me. I need a hearty laugh today.

 

[MrS]

Didn’t you say you write for a gaming site? And this is the trash you write?

Unsurprisingly, the only trait required to write for Xboxaddict.com is the ability to bleed green.

 

[Marlenus]

6TF Polaris > 4TF RDNA2, plus it has more RAM. Effectively, 4K enchancements for X1 games won't apply (it's a 1080p device after all).

Still:
- X1X is much cheaper
- Runs 4K enchancements
- Has a disc-drive
- Plays the same games (for 2 years)
If you're waiting on the XSX to get a bit cheaper, buying it for pennies with GP for a couple years seems a much better option.

The 5Tflop 5500XT is about 10% faster than the 6.3Tflop rx580 already and it has a bandwidth defecit.

A 4 Tflop RDNA2 GPU with enough memory bandwidth and improved colour compression is going to be there or thereabouts with a 6Tflop polaris GPU while having an enhanced feature set like I already mentioned. On top of that the CPU performance is going to make hitting 60fps at 1080p or 1440p a lot easier than doing so on the X1X.

 

[AllBizness]

10gb of ram and still under 4tf? Must be a pretty shitty GPU.

 

[WatDat]

Unsurprisingly, the only trait required to write for Xboxaddict.com is the ability to bleed green.

Let’s try not to discount the insane amount of “blue blood” on this “enthusiast” forum. I think it’s smart for us all to admit that reality. (Powers up PS4 Pro to play some Tetris Effect.)

 

[Soapy Wooder]

Let’s stay on topic and keep it friendly please.

 

[FireFly]

A 4 Tflop RDNA2 GPU with enough memory bandwidth and improved colour compression is going to be there or thereabouts with a 6Tflop polaris GPU while having an enhanced feature set like I already mentioned. On top of that the CPU performance is going to make hitting 60fps at 1080p or 1440p a lot easier than doing so on the X1X.

It depends if they go for a 128 bit bus (like the 5500 XT) or a 256 bit bit bus (like the 5600/5700).

 

[Orta]

It’s BC to your digital library.

something something digital future

Screw that for a laugh. All my old OG & 360 stuff is physical. Not paying for them again.

Guess that's the Series S off my list then, it was the only reason I was considering one

 

[AllBizness]

Let’s try not to discount the insane amount of “blue blood” on this “enthusiast” forum. I think it’s smart for us all to admit that reality. (Powers up PS4 Pro to play some Tetris Effect.)

If you're not playing Tetris Effect on PSVR you have not lived.

 

[anothertech]

The more interesting proposition is when SeX and PS5 cost $599

And SeS and 5D cost $399

I'm telling you, price reveals are going to blow minds.

 

[splattered]

If you're not playing Tetris Effect on PSVR you have not lived.

It's one of my favorite PSVR games!

 

[Marlenus]

It depends if they go for a 128 bit bus (like the 5500 XT) or a 256 bit bit bus (like the 5600/5700).

If it is 10GB ram then it might be a 160 bit bus with 5 2GB chips.

 

[Dane]

I think 1440p60fps is likely for BC improvements and retro style/non demanding tech games.

 

[Tulipanzo]

The 5Tflop 5500XT is about 10% faster than the 6.3Tflop rx580 already and it has a bandwidth defecit.

A 4 Tflop RDNA2 GPU with enough memory bandwidth and improved colour compression is going to be there or thereabouts with a 6Tflop polaris GPU while having an enhanced feature set like I already mentioned. On top of that the CPU performance is going to make hitting 60fps at 1080p or 1440p a lot easier than doing so on the X1X.

"There or thereabouts" is going to be tough to sell when the X1X is much cheaper.
As I've already mentioned, the Lockhart is about 4.72 TF Polaris, so unless RDNA2 shows EVEN BIGGER, yet unseen or mentioned gains, then in won't work.

Still, the issue here is that this 1080p system won't run the old 4K enhancements, which frankly isn't surprising.
Developers would have to patch their titles to account for novel hw features, specifically on a device to be marketed as 1080p.