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[Stilton Disco]

Gpu wise, its really not stronger than the X. Its stronger than the pro though. It's the Cpu that gives it the leg up. The GPU in the Series S is weaker than the GTX 1660 Super by at least 20%.

One undeniable positive with XSS is that the barrier for entry for next gen Xbox and multiplat games will be incredibly low for PC gamers.

I'm expecting a Laptop packing a 3050 will most likely match this thing at 1080p, which will be the new entry level for PC gaming next year.

 

[onQ123]

PS5 is 10tf variable and Sony won't be targeting 1080p (hopefully) so whatever Sony can do on the PS5 can be done on XSS at lower resolution.

Nope PS5 will do things that won't even be happening on XSX so you can't say it will be done on XSS at a lower resolution . Notice I said will & not can .

 

[-Arcadia-]

This may have been discussed earlier but the lack of a disc drive is somewhat shocking tbh. I mean, this my assumption and I could be wrong but, i feel like price conscious consumers would also be price conscious with regards to game purchases? Removing the disc drive seems like a huge own goal to me especially looking at the failure that is the Xbox One SAD edition. I can't believe they would make that mistake again. Also, seeing as the US is by far Xbox's biggest market, the lack of a disc drive seems like a bigger own goal especially when you consider the internet infrastructure in the states.


Apart from that, it's also very evident that this is a 1080p machine at best. In no way is this a 1440p machine at least judging by the specs. Yes, if we're playing current gen games, sure but next gen games? Not a chance.

Finally, what's the storage size of the SSD on the Series S? No disc drive means its at least 1TB? At least I hope so or that would be another own goal.

Good points, but from a manufacturing standpoing, dropping the drive and associated licenses had to be a win. Imagine trying to stay on some kind of basic parity with the SX, while trying to claw back every price advantage possible. That's a pretty easy sacrifice.

I don't think people will be too worried about used games, or downloading them. The vast, vast majority of Americans have access to some kind of decent internet in this day and age. Maybe not the farmland boonies, but that isn't representative of the typical American experience.

 

[DavidGzz]

For all the casual early adopters!

At $300 it sure will be! Just like the "casuals" who bought a $300 Switch. The right price point will do that.

 

[EverydayBeast]

XSS is the real deal

 

[SF Kosmo]

Not true, this has shared memory VRAM and RAM protion, you don't need so much VRAM here...

That's a good point, but it's not as if there's going to be a flat 6GB savings built in just from going down to 1080p.

 

[SlimySnake]

For 199$, after taking a substantial loss, Series S would be the most popular next-gen console. The cheapest way the experience new games in 1080p/1440p with still stellar IQ.

Just imagine Microsoft flooding the market with its 199$ console and gaining Game Pass subscribers like crazy. The would lost a shitton of money year after year, but in the long term it would be totally worth it.

But Phil Spencer said he doesn't want to sell consoles.

 

[SlimySnake]

XSS is the real deal

I don't see how anyone can see a 3.9 tflops next gen console and think it's thr real deal.

Its a shit deal.

 

[M1chl]

That's a good point, but it's not as if there's going to be a flat 6GB savings built in just from going down to 1080p.

It's 4x less resolution from 4k (if that's the target), so it probably will suffice.

 

[splattered]

So it's a 1440p/60fps target machine just like i've been speculating... sweet!

Weird that people keep saying this is $299, XSX $599, and then PS5 $399???

It's most likely XSS $299, PS5 $599, XSX $599 (PS5de maybe $549 with the deletion of the disc drive)

This might actually make Xbox adoption explode next gen with the focus on Gamepass and xCloud.

 

[RayHell]

Ok, slightly smaller power supply and a little less RAM, but those are also small costs. Where does it say it has a smaller SSD?

Still it's adding up. SSD is a maybe that's why I've put a ?

 

[Bonfires Down]

I mentioned it in another thread, and this isn't meant to suck the wind out of the sails from this rumor, but what happens when a very demanding game releases for the XSX that forces it to reduce its resolution below 4k? Wouldn't that mean that the XSS version goes sub-1080?

Yes, but if they have decent upscaling solutions that might not be a big deal. They also have a decent bit of leeway as the Series S has 1/3 the power of the Series X rather than 1/4 as you would expect from a 1080p console.

 

[Stilton Disco]

Good points, but from a manufacturing standpoing, dropping the drive and associated licenses had to be a win. Imagine trying to stay on some kind of basic parity with the SX, while trying to claw back every price advantage possible. That's a pretty easy sacrifice.

I don't think people will be too worried about used games, or downloading them. The vast, vast majority of Americans have access to some kind of decent internet in this day and age. Maybe not the farmland boonies, but that isn't representative of the typical American experience.

That would mean MS are once again falling into the trap of building a system sold world wide, and judged on its performance on that global stage, for a single part of the US market.

Most of the places around the world the XSS would be ideally suited for do not have the same fast reliable Internet the US has.

Actually now that I think about, even most places in the US that have the fast broadband needed for a digital only console are either paying through the nose for it or have data caps.

The kind of people this would cater to price wise are generally not those with the infrastructure to utilise it.

The main group I see buying this are middle class parents for their kids, which means competing with Switch, which is not a fight I'd put money on Xbox winning.

 

[TheSpecialOne]

Good points, but from a manufacturing standpoing, dropping the drive and associated licenses had to be a win. Imagine trying to stay on some kind of basic parity with the SX, while trying to claw back every price advantage possible. That's a pretty easy sacrifice.

I don't think people will be too worried about used games, or downloading them. The vast, vast majority of Americans have access to some kind of decent internet in this day and age. Maybe not the farmland boonies, but that isn't representative of the typical American experience.

Good points, but from a manufacturing standpoing, dropping the drive and associated licenses had to be a win. Imagine trying to stay on some kind of basic parity with the SX, while trying to claw back every price advantage possible. That's a pretty easy sacrifice.

I don't think people will be too worried about used games, or downloading them. The vast, vast majority of Americans have access to some kind of decent internet in this day and age. Maybe not the farmland boonies, but that isn't representative of the typical American experience.

I definitely agree that dropping the drive saved them in licensing fees and costs but, id argue that its wasnt worth it as it didn't align the product with the behavior of price concious customers. I know that I don't buy many games digital games from the Xbox Store because the sales are infrequent and often unimpressive. Physical copies can be often found for much cheaper prices.

I still disagree on the topic of network infrastructure. We have games like Call of duty with their awful patches. I believe the last one was 60+ GBs on Xbox. Even first party games are 100 GB+ and i expect game sizes to increase next gen. Higher quality assets often require more storage. When you combine this with poor internet and or data caps, it only serves to highlight the importance of physical games.

Anyway, most of this is baseless speculation. Nobody knows how the market will react and we just have to wait and see.

 

[-Arcadia-]

That would mean MS are once again falling into the trap of building a system sold world wide, and judged on its performance on that global stage, for a single part of the US market.

Most of the places around the world the XSS would be ideally suited for do not have the same fast reliable Internet the US has.

Actually now that I think about, even most places in the US that have the fast broadband needed for a digital only console are either paying through the nose for it or have data caps.

The kind of people this would cater to price wise are generally not those with the infrastructure to utilise it.

The main group I see buying this are middle class parents for their kids, which means competing with Switch, which is not a fight I'd put money on Xbox winning.

I would think the One S would be fine for third worlders. They're typically a generation or so behind in that fashion anyway. Series S will be cheaper, but I don't believe it to be targeting that kind of extreme budget market. This, I think, is going to be more about next-gen for a nicer price, and the price may bot be that low, if rumors about the Series X being $600 are to be believed.

Your observations about US internet are outdated. Good internet is cheap, and I'm not sure data caps are as much of a thing as they used to be. I've yet to hit one, despite going north of hundreds of GBs in a single month, nor do I hear much about it anymore, even on this enthusiast forum, in an age where internet usage is only intensifying (4K, more streaming than ever, gigantic games). My guess would be that restrictions were untenable and relaxed.

 

[DavidGzz]

I guarantee you these mistakes that MS is making (Lockhart, forced 1st party on Xbox One for 2 years, Halo delay, every 1st party game on GamePass Day One, etc) will be used as excuses as to why the PS5 succeeded 6 years from now. It's funny, because in the moment "certain" people are using these exact same mistakes from MS and calling them positives.

I've been reading your posts for a while and I'm pretty sure you see anything MS does as a negative so not sure you're the most unbiased source here. For me, as an enthusiast the 2 years "forced" Xbox One thing sucks but I'll live, especially since it only goes for XGS so not sure many games will be affected as their bigger games seem further out. Otherwise, the others ARE positives. XSS will help XSX stay relevant and "free" 1st party games for me is awesome. Not sure how they could be negatives. As far as Halo, I wasn't jonesing for it so if the delay improves the games launch how is that bad? PS5 will definitely succeed(this word doesn't mean "win") but so can Xbox. The same way MS and Sony succeeded with PS3 and 360.

This is coming from someone getting both consoles. Just seems like common sense.

 

[supernova8]

I disagree.

If the average customer is presented with 3 (or more) price options, they tend to go to the middle. Companies will deliberately scale their services to take advantage of this. The $x.99 trick on prices is another example of leveraging psychology against customers.

In this hypothetical scenario
XsS - lowest price, lowest specs
PS5 - midrange price, much higher specs
XsX - highest price, even higher specs

The problem shows up if PS5 is a big jump from XsS, but XsX is not as big of a jump over PS5. Customers will "settle" for a midrange option that is "good enough" in terms of power. Brand reputation plays another huge role here. An example would be going to a quik lube or a car wash. The cheapest option is $7, the PREMIUM is $9, and the ULTRA PREMIUM is $17. It is likely that the PREMIUM will get the most sales as it is priced only a bit higher than the normal, and for a vanity service people tend to forget the $ cost.

5 Psychological Hacks That Will Make Your Pricing Page Irresistible | MarTech

How do you get your customers to make the right buying decision? Columnist Neil Patel explores the persuasive powers of the pricing page.

marketingland.com

Microsoft is hoping to squeeze Sony out by offering the cheapest as well as the most powerful option. This is not a controversial observation. However, it is plausible this will work against them, as Sony offers one unified SKU and Microsoft offers two, in addition to the "middle pick" psychological issue mentioned above.

When you put it like that, I might just get a PS5 (was always getting a PS5 anyway)

 

[supernova8]

When you put it like that, I might just get a PS5 (was always getting a PS5 anyway)

If Microsoft puts out some really good first party stuff (big IF) later in the generation I could definitely consider an XSS purchase.

 

[Marlenus]

Also, the XsX CPU is 3.8 Ghz now?

It needs to be the same as the XSX CPU to make game design easier because with this spec all the devs have to do is change the resolution setting and the rest will take care of itself.

EDIT: Sorry misread. Yes the series X is 3.8Ghz with SMT turned off and 3.6Ghz with SMT turned on.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Weird that people keep saying this is $299, XSX $599, and then PS5 $399???

It's simultaneously impossible to hit a sub-$300 price point with lower-end components on XSS-and- the removal of the disc drive on the PS5 will result in $100 cheaper system...interesting.

It's most likely XSS $299, PS5 $599, XSX $599 (PS5de maybe $549 with the deletion of the disc drive)

I don't see how PS5 and XSX don't end up the same price, which I'm guessing will be $499. The PS5AD could be $399, but more likely around $449, while XSS is $299. If PS5AD comes in at $399 then XSS should go to $249.

 

[DESTROYA]

At this point I don’t believe anything Tom Warren tweets

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

I expect a 6TF RNDA2 GPU on Series S and a Series X being a 12 TF GPU. $349 & $559 plausible?

 

[Stilton Disco]

I would think the One S would be fine for third worlders. They're typically a generation or so behind in that fashion anyway. Series S will be cheaper, but I don't believe it to be targeting that kind of extreme budget market. This, I think, is going to be more about next-gen for a nicer price, and the price may bot be that low, if rumors about the Series X being $600 are to be believed.

Your observations about US internet are outdated. Good internet is cheap, and I'm not sure data caps are as much of a thing as they used to be. I've yet to hit one, despite going north of hundreds of GBs in a single month, nor do I hear much about it anymore, even on this enthusiast forum, in an age where internet usage is only intensifying (4K, more streaming than ever, gigantic games). My guess would be that restrictions were untenable and relaxed.

Just looked it up, and nope, the US has the 7th most expensive internet in the world, with 118 countries offering easily accessible internet for cheaper per mb than the US.

Similarly the US is one of the worst places for unlimited internet and one of the worst first world nations for high speed broadband coverage.

All from articles I easily found on Google, with data and statistics from articles published in 2020.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Developers gonna get more annoyed with the scale back no?

 

[SF Kosmo]

It's 4x less resolution from 4k (if that's the target), so it probably will suffice.

But again, this assumes that every XSX is just a native 4K version of an XSS game, and that's actually a huge limitation on how people use the hardware. It's exactly why Halo Infinite got all the backlash it did. Running a last-gen game at 4K60 does not make something a next-gen visual experience.

 

[M1chl]

But again, this assumes that every XSX is just a native 4K version of an XSS game, and that's actually a huge limitation on how people use the hardware. It's exactly why Halo Infinite got all the backlash it did. Running a last-gen game at 4K60 does not make something a next-gen visual experience.

Well this is presumption that 343i is good studio and that they pushed game to the limits... I know that it's a bad call on MS part to show it like that.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

For 199$, after taking a substantial loss, Series S would be the most popular next-gen console. The cheapest way the experience new games in 1080p/1440p with still stellar IQ.

Just imagine Microsoft flooding the market with its 199$ console and gaining Game Pass subscribers like crazy. The would lost a shitton of money year after year, but in the long term it would be totally worth it.

Looking at the lower than expected specs (CU count) and lack of disc drive (cost saving and hint of 'Gamepass box'), I think $200 price tag could be their mic drop momemnt.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Unless this for


Just the fact that it does not run at 3.8 GHz when. Running in 16 threads mode/appearing as 16 virtual cores.

No one ever said it did so how is it misleading?

That is neither how render pipelines work nor how software development works.
Tooling, staffing, QA, certification.....all those efforts just doubled.
And since downscaling is usually a lot harder than upscaling ...well you can fill in the rest.

That's a pretty big jump in logic to make. Do PC developers on average have double staffing and tooling etc... Compared to primarily console devs? They have made scalable games since early 90's really.

 

[MarkMe2525]

If 4k+ and high frame rates are important to you.

I'm pretty sure his point was they are different and if they were not, that would be silly.

 

[MarkMe2525]

The way these different iteration of consoles are named is so dumb. I legit lost track nor do I know which is the latest. And that is coming from a guy that browses gaming forums.

Your typical soccer moms and dads wont be able to differentiate these consoles when they’re looking to buy gifts for their kids and instead wind up dissapointing them with.

xbox
Xbox 360
Xbox one
Xbox one x
Xbox series x
Xbox series S or xbox S
??

iPhone se
iPhone x
iPhone xs
iPhone xr
iPhone xs max
iPhone x max

I work in the cell phone industry and soccer mom's have no issue.

P.s. just realized I triple posted... My bad!!

 

[Phrixotrichus]

That's a pretty big jump in logic to make. Do PC developers on average have double staffing and tooling etc... Compared to primarily console devs? They have made scalable games since early 90's really.

PC developers do not have platform holder-quality certifications to go through as there are no platform holders. And upwards scalability is a lot easier to get "stable" than the other way around.
What happens when the QA staffing underestimates hardware variability and is cut short on PC can be seen on examples as recent as Horizon`s PC port.

 

[GHG]

Especially outside places with good Internet around the world .

This is the biggest kicker.

I've seen some people saying this could appeal to poorer countries... Not a chance if there's no disk drive in the thing.

 

[MarkMe2525]

PC developers do not have platform holder-quality certifications to go through as there are no platform holders. And upwards scalability is a lot easier to get "stable" than the other way around.
What happens when the QA staffing underestimates hardware variability and is cut short on PC can be seen on examples as recent as Horizon`s PC port.

Steam, Origin, MS store have no certification requirements.? I could be wrong but I don't believe that to be accurate. Also to your point IF accurate. If PC are easier to develop for and get published, your assumption states that it will take double the staff for a dev to make a game for MS upcoming consoles vs Sony and PC platforms. That statement seems like an unsubstantiated assumption without precedent.

 

[TLZ]

Performance target of the XSS 1440p / 60 fps......

Are they fucking retarded?

Yes.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

. If PC are easier to develop for

god no!

your assumption states that it will take double the staff for a dev to make a game for MS upcoming consoles vs Sony

Jesus, no!

That statement seems like an unsubstantiated assumption without precedent.

Because you just made that ridiculous statement up....

Steam, Origin, MS store have no certification requirements.?

Steam barely has one, basically "it starts, good enough". Origin and MS I don`t know.

 

[-Arcadia-]

Just looked it up, and nope, the US has the 7th most expensive internet in the world, with 118 countries offering easily accessible internet for cheaper per mb than the US.

Similarly the US is one of the worst places for unlimited internet and one of the worst first world nations for high speed broadband coverage.

All from articles I easily found on Google, with data and statistics from articles published in 2020.

I live here, and it isn't exactly like journalistic or polling endeavors have a sterling reputation in 2020. I can cite CNN telling us that white people all have a sickness that makes us racist, the lies and carefully twisted facts Fox News spouts every day, or the multiple polling outlets that assured a Clinton victory, but it doesn't make it any more true.

That level of awful reporting and lack of integrity goes well beyond politics. As controversial as it is (and maybe it needs to be less so) 'I googled a bunch' really isn't a solid argument anymore, especially for a foreigner.

I'm telling you that for $30-40 a month, not much at all, you can get a good internet service, and that data caps aren't a thing that anybody really talks about anymore. Furthermore, I live in a remote area where these things should be more constrictive, and yet.

 

[MarkMe2525]

god no!

Jesus, no!

Because you just made that ridiculous statement up....

Steam barely has one, basically "it starts, good enough". Origin and MS I don`t know.

You literally said devs for MS would have to double their staffing, tooling etc.. I respond to said statement. You say I made it up? Are you ok?

 

[DeepEnigma]

Garbo.

It is cute seeing some of the very same people who want to troll the PS5 about "power," carry water and trip over themselves for this anemic box.

 

[Codeblew]

It needs to be the same as the XSX CPU to make game design easier because with this spec all the devs have to do is change the resolution setting and the rest will take care of itself.

EDIT: Sorry misread. Yes the series X is 3.8Ghz with SMT turned off and 3.6Ghz with SMT turned on.

They have to worry about having 6GB less memory as well.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

You literally said devs for MS would have to double their staffing, tooling etc.. I respond to said statement. You say made it up? Are you ok?

If you are unable to comprehend a text consisting of a whopping 3 sentences than that`s not really a problem on my side.......

 

[psorcerer]

I live here, and it isn't exactly like journalistic or polling endeavors have a sterling reputation in 2020. I can cite CNN telling us that white people all have a sickness that makes us racist, the lies and carefully twisted facts Fox News spouts every day, or the multiple polling outlets that assured a Clinton victory, but it doesn't make it any more true.

That level of awful reporting and lack of integrity goes well beyond politics. As controversial as it is (and maybe it needs to be less so) 'I googled a bunch' really isn't a solid argument anymore, especially for a foreigner.

I'm telling you that for $30-40 a month, not much at all, you can get a good internet service, and that data caps aren't a thing that anybody really talks about anymore. Furthermore, I live in a remote area where these things should be more constrictive, and yet.

As somebody who lived in US for some time, but comes from abroad: for a first world country US internet is atrocious.
Like really shitty and slow.
It comes mostly from the fact that US infrastructure is much older that in other places.
US got broadband early, but nobody cared to upgrade it much.

 

[Marlenus]

They have to worry about having 6GB less memory as well.

Lower res textures for the lower target res.

 

[Shambala]

Microsoft holding back next gen with this shitty ass 4tf machine. If anyone complained about the Ps5 specs let’s see them justify this shit.

 

[SlimySnake]

Yes.

its crazy how Tom Warren, a tech journalist, doesnt look at that and call BS right away. Shameful.

 

[Stilton Disco]

I live here, and it isn't exactly like journalistic or polling endeavors have a sterling reputation in 2020. I can cite CNN telling us that white people all have a sickness that makes us racist, the lies and carefully twisted facts Fox News spouts every day, or the multiple polling outlets that assured a Clinton victory, but it doesn't make it any more true.

That level of awful reporting and lack of integrity goes well beyond politics. As controversial as it is (and maybe it needs to be less so) 'I googled a bunch' really isn't a solid argument anymore, especially for a foreigner.

I'm telling you that for $30-40 a month, not much at all, you can get a good internet service, and that data caps aren't a thing that anybody really talks about anymore. Furthermore, I live in a remote area where these things should be more constrictive, and yet.

No offence, but I think I'm going to trust the actual published statistics over your anecdote, sorry.

Also while we're on anecdotes, pretty much all UK broadband is unlimited and about half the price you're saying you 'not much' is.

I get 60mb's from the equivalent of 15 bucks with line rental, and I live in the English countryside, where the Internet coverage is a bit shit.

 

[HTK]

What if Microsoft is touting that they will be cheaper than the PS5 because they are thinking about Xbox Series S and not Xbox Series X?

 

[CrysisFreak]

R u gonna get an xbox serial xtreme or an xbox cereal sucker?

 

[mckmas8808]

Lockhart isn't a mistake though it's actually the smartest thing that they are doing in all this.


The 4K market is still smaller than then HD market & there is also a big market of people who don't really care about specs they just want the new console. parents & grandparents buying gifts for their kids will go for the Lockhart .

Series S will most likely sell better than Series X

I hope for gaming sake it DOESN'T sell better than the XSX. Plus the XSX will run games perfectly on 1080p sets. I wish MS would focus mostly on that console and not the XSS. Plus why would parents and grandparents by the XSS, when most of the games will be on X1S and still look good at 1080p?

I've been reading your posts for a while and I'm pretty sure you see anything MS does as a negative so not sure you're the most unbiased source here. For me, as an enthusiast the 2 years "forced" Xbox One thing sucks but I'll live, especially since it only goes for XGS so not sure many games will be affected as their bigger games seem further out. Otherwise, the others ARE positives. XSS will help XSX stay relevant and "free" 1st party games for me is awesome. Not sure how they could be negatives. As far as Halo, I wasn't jonesing for it so if the delay improves the games launch how is that bad? PS5 will definitely succeed(this word doesn't mean "win") but so can Xbox. The same way MS and Sony succeeded with PS3 and 360.

This is coming from someone getting both consoles. Just seems like common sense.

Not true at all. I just disagree with many of MS choices for gaming at the moment. Gamepass is one of the best things that's been created in the video games space in the last 10 years. But those games aren't "free" at all. You are renting them for a time for $10 a month. And that's cool, but lets call it what it is. I want MS from the 360 era back (mainly to push Sony to be better every year and for Sony to not fall on their laurels), not this new Xbox crew that doesn't believe in generations or hardware console sales.

 

[Hezekiah]

Yes, in software development there is such a thing as cheap and quick ports. There has been trillion of cheap and quick ports in the console and PC world. They don't cost 5 dollars, that's for sure, but relatively for what a game costs to make and develop, they are cheap and quick.

But it's okay, the concern trolling by the Sony fans was a given.



I see some Remasters and some not demanding games doing it.

You wanna bet?

Yeah remasters, last gen games.

It isn't powerful enough to run proper next-gen games at 1440p/60fps.

 

[VincentMatts]

I know its probably better than the Xbox One X, but it still bothers me that it has less TF. Its just weird.