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[UnNamed]

I've seen homemade projects better than this. You can't see where original TB ends and Remaster starts.

The remaster is so bad faithful it has problem of texture tiling like any games from 1998.

 

[Drizzlehell]

New graphics look really bad in TR. They should look at Quake and Quake 2 remasters from Nightdive how to update graphics of old game without destroying game style. I swear both looks exactly how I remember them to look when they were released.

Quake 2 didn't have characters with pyramid shaped tits that were supposed to pass for hot chicks, though. This really needed an update.

 

[emivita]

I'm aware that there's no convincing old school tomb raider fans that there is potentially a better version of TR 3's character control that theoretically could exist. It sucks, because I fully believe that old school TR fans and it's specific genre will die on that hill and fade into obscurity.

To this day, a lot of old school TR fans still play classic levels - even complete games - created by the community with the TR Level Editor, as I still do, and still are perfectly comfortable with those controls. It's just a different way to control the game character - more 'mathematic' and thoughtful, I can say - and those who have perfectly mastered these controls are always gonna have a really great experience even 30 years from today.

I'm sorry you had that experience with Soul Reaver 1's controls as I did not

It's not just me, though. Camera in SR1 sucked ass a lot of times, and controls were even camera-oriented. The worst possible combination you can have. My favourite still remains the very first Legacy of Kain, but that was entirely another genre.

 

[kuncol02]

Quake 2 didn't have characters with pyramid shaped tits that were supposed to pass for hot chicks, though. This really needed an update.

All models in Quake 2 are new, Even levels were rebuild.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

I donno, looks a bit jarring to me. Lara is too high poly and smoothed out compared to the enemies. That T-Rex looks atrocious like its some cute Barney character. I dont think anyone would of complained if they left her as is but higher res textures on her because the outside world looks blocky like the original yet she looks like xbpx360 version Lara, just jumps out too much from the rest of the visuals.

 

[BigLee74]

Best news I’ve heard in ages. Still remember the day my cousin said ‘you’ve got to see this’ and showed me Tomb Raider on his PS1…

First three were great. 4 was too big and maze like - had to play with a guide back in the day.

Anyway, in!

 

[Filben]

That T-Rex looks atrocious like its some cute Barney character.

Yeah, the old one still looks terrifying between all those pixels and wobbly textures and limited view distance. The new one looks almost cute.

Not sure if I'm gonna play with modernised or classic visuals.

 

[Hudo]

While I am not a Tomb Raider fan, I always enjoyed watching speedruns of the first 4 Tomb Raider games. There's something calming about it.

 

[Sub_Level]

Nah, I'll keep my fond memories, don't need to go back.

If you’re scared it wont live up to your memories, you shouldn’t be. I played through them when PS4 was already out and they held up fantastic!

 

[Skifi28]

Never played them to completion, so I appreciate the chance to try again on a modern platform with less technical issues. The price is also great, can't complain.

 

[SenkiDala]

Those 3 games are legendary and the remaster looks perfect. It keeps the mood, the essence of the originals, but cleaner, in high definition, and made to be played with modern controllers. It is perfect for me.

Will get the PS5 version on day one and probably the Switch version too for handheld.

 

[UnravelKatharsis]

I'll try to explain why I consider Soul Reaver to be on the same track as Tomb Raider. Apologies in advance for the long post.

I do not consider the Tomb Raider games to be in their own bubble when it comes to platforming. I think that those games are an evolution from what we were used to seeing in 2D grid based platformers with games such as Prince of Persia, Flashback, OddWorld, etc.

I consider this an evolution path: Prince of Persia ---> Flashback ---> Oddworld

I also consider this to be the 3d evolution path that spawned from the above path: Tomb Raider ---> Indiana Jones N64 ---> Soul Reaver

(I am aware that Indy technically released after Soul Reaver, but humor me for a bit)

Indiana Jones N64 shares very, very close similarities when it comes to it's platforming and level design, to Tomb Raider. However, he controlled better because his movement was not confined to a specific confined variation of tank controls. You didn't need to make him pull out his guns and target an enemy so that he could simply strafe or turn on a dime. Instead, you could move him around in a way that's closer to other 3d games at the time, but you still had to line him up for jumps and play very carefully due to the game requiring it for progression and survival. This means that the character control of that Indiana game didn't suffer as much as TR, as the character controls were not supposed to be the main attraction of the Tomb Raider games in the first place, it was always the level design and the fear of failing a calculated jump or sequence.

Soul Reaver evolved the TR control of the character, by making the controls feel much, much smoother than the other two games I've listed. However, it still relied on many grid based level design features and puzzles even though the character could freely walk in 3d. You still had to line up quite a few jumps. You still had to avoid certain pitfalls. You still had to solve sometimes very obtuse and jumping puzzles by taking a step back and surveying your environment, sometimes through multiple moments of failure. It just did all of these things in a way that didn't completely lock you into very, very slow turning and walking animations like TR and to a lesser extent Indiana Jones.

However, if Soul Reaver did not have it's parachute mechanic and wasn't as forgiving with deaths/had more traps, it would be much easier for me to point this out. I think that people don't view it in the same category as those two games because of these two things that ease the user experience, but it definitely, heavily shares DNA with the other two games.

What should have happened after Soul Reaver was that the PS2 Tomb Raider game(Angel of Darkness) should have taken what's there from it's competitors, while keeping it's own soul, and evolving all of this another step further. If you look at footage of Angel of Darkness, you can clearly see that's where they were going to take things. It was going to do both and Lara would feel much better to control(finally no tank controls) while keeping the grid platforming and difficulty.

Angel of Darkness' problem wasn't necessarily the character control, it was behind the scenes turmoil. Eidos made too many mistakes. Yearly releases for every TR game slowly degraded the value of Tomb Raider and degraded the developers themselves to multiple projects of questionable quality after TR 3, due to working on all of the I.P. like a sports game franchise. They scrapped the story and designs of AoD twice before arriving to a final decision, upper management wanted to compete with too many heavy hitters of the PS2 gen, the game was going to be episodic at some point so some content was forcefully cut, the story was all over the place, the level design was half assed, and then finally you weren't even raiding tombs.

Everything about AoD was a mess, arguably except one thing: Lara was finally able to move around like a 3d character. They finally did it. In the one game where they finally started to fix her movement and evolve it, it just happened to be their biggest franchise bomb.

I want grid based difficult platforming to return one day, but it has to be done right. The biggest obstacle, tank controls, have to go. Only a subsection, of a subsection, of a subsection, of a subsection of gamers want tank controls anymore. Difficult platforming can be done right without it, but fans of TR have to acknowledge that TR 3 should never have been seen as the pinnacle of this type of design because it never reached a pinnacle to begin with. It was cut off at the knees.

Ok I understand where you're coming from. I don't WANT tank controls by any means, what I'm trying to say is it can not be changed for these games because too much of the games difficulty and challenge is designed around it's controls. It would simply trivialize all the puzzles and mechanics that were designed around her control. Sure, I agree tomb raider should have evolved faster than it did but I do not agree that the controls can be "fixed" for the older games.

Such a change would require much more tuning and changes to be implemented, then it's not the same game and what would be the point in playing it? There's already a remake.

Edit* oh wow I wish I had read your other comment first. I'm not an old school die hard fan and I'm not dying in any hill. It's just not possible to change the games without completely overhauling the level design. Jesus

 

[BigLee74]

What I liked about the early tomb raider games was the tight control logic. You knew if you could or couldn’t make a jump. In the newer games, there were too many canned animations, auto adjustments mid jump, and just unclimbable surfaces that you could easily reach but the game says ‘nah’.

Ok, tank controls have no place in modern gaming, but I don’t mind revisiting them one more time to experience these games again with a nice frame rate!

 

[Sushi_Combo]

I hope they plan on having a physical release too.

 

[March Climber]

Ok I understand where you're coming from. I don't WANT tank controls by any means, what I'm trying to say is it can not be changed for these games because too much of the games difficulty and challenge is designed around it's controls. It would simply trivialize all the puzzles and mechanics that were designed around her control. Sure, I agree tomb raider should have evolved faster than it did but I do not agree that the controls can be "fixed" for the older games.

Such a change would require much more tuning and changes to be implemented, then it's not the same game and what would be the point in playing it? There's already a remake.

This is a fair take regarding this collection. I guess I’m just not against any options if the remaster team decides to add any control options, much like the old Resident Evil games remaster editions. Even with a new option, the original controls would still exist for those who still want it.

Edit* oh wow I wish I had read your other comment first. I'm not an old school die hard fan and I'm not dying in any hill. It's just not possible to change the games without completely overhauling the level design. Jesus

Relax, the part after I mentioned you was more in regards to posts like this:

To this day, a lot of old school TR fans still play classic levels - even complete games - created by the community with the TR Level Editor, as I still do, and still are perfectly comfortable with those controls. It's just a different way to control the game character - more 'mathematic' and thoughtful, I can say - and those who have perfectly mastered these controls are always gonna have a really great experience even 30 years from today.

Based on this quoted post and his prior one, it feels like(to me) there is no way to convince old school TR fans like emivita of a potential alternative to what already exists. To him, old school TR fans and it’s community of level editors, like what they like and that’s all there is to it.

My problem is that the old school TR community have all essentially decided to agree that TR is exactly where it needs to be and that everyone else has to instead master the tank controls of a 30+ year old game to meet them at their level. If you see what I see here(the hill), you’ll know that I’m not going to have a back and forth with him and I will simply concede that point.

 

[Skifi28]

I hope they plan on having a physical release too.

We all want to get physical with Lara, you're not alone.

 

[Hudo]

grid-based TR games.

Took me quite a while to realize that the levels of the first few TR games were actually grid-based. But it makes total sense, imho. And they hid it pretty well, imho.

 

[Drizzlehell]

All models in Quake 2 are new, Even levels were rebuild.

So?

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Took me quite a while to realize that the levels of the first few TR games were actually grid-based. But it makes total sense, imho. And they hid it pretty well, imho.

There's a satisfying element to that that no other games provide, I really enjoy it. Once you figure out what makes it tick, the "rules" of movement are actually really tight and reliable.

It almost itches some OCD shit in me

 

[TGO]

Very interested in this.

Edit: Oh if tank controls I'm not buying. Surely there's a toggle for modern controls..

Modern controls would break the game.
The best they could do is do a better analogue control implementation which still uses the original control setup.
Her side flip and backflip are tied to those inputs.
Every game since Legend has Lara just jump forward in the direction you push as she'll instantly turn around in that direction.
I guess they could tied it to the walk button and have walk tied to the analogue.
Either way it can't be changed as it's required to platform the levels.
There's a modern controls toggle anyway so, we'll see how that works

Btw has anyone noticed how much attention this announcement has got, a lot of people are hyped for this.

Also I like how the Lara Model looks like a refined version of the OG CGI model

 

[Krathoon]

There was some kind of fan patch on Angel of Darkness that fixes it up. I was messing around with it a while back.

 

[Krathoon]

I like they approach they are taking with this. They upgraded it, but not too much. Kind of like what Nintendo is doing with Mario RPG.

 

[SkylineRKR]

I wonder about the modern controls. If it keeps grid based gameplay, but improves the turning etc then it could be good. You wanted to hold walk during jump sections anyway since it would lock you unto a square, you couldn't fall off. For me it clicked once I learnt it. Before that I took the big gaps by chance and sometimes succeeded and other times I came up short and died. But walk to the edge, backstep and run+jump was 100% success rate. My problem with modern games is how automated it goes, and sometimes the script doesn't bother and you die. I never feel I am in control. Or you suddenly fly without momentum, and other times you are like a magnet towards a grapple point.

I hope they mix it so that the combat etc is more modernized, but the actual platforming is still old school with the same momentum.

 

[BbMajor7th]

Really, really looking forward to revisiting these. Absolute classics. Just the right kind of remaster too - nothing OTT, just tidying it up for modern platforms.

 

[DeleteriousObnoxious]

I've been thinking of the remaster since it announced so far the only disappointing thing is that they seems to not update the various elements but the trailer doesn't really show it to much so its still to early to say for sure.

But yeah by elements i mean, Fire and Water shaders seems to be very simple. Openlara and Croft Engine water effects looks absolutely stunning but perhaps its not possible to change those shaders on the fly with a feature like the graphic toggle.

Openlara:


Croft Engine:


I personally find that the elemental shaders provides a much needed modern look to the old games and make them that much more beautiful to explore.
But in the end i just take what ever we get i just hope they consider adding new shaders to water at least.

 

[cireza]

Btw has anyone noticed how much attention this announcement has got, a lot of people are hyped for this.

Yeah, looking forward to exploring these great levels, full of secrets, with a sexy Lara that simply knows how to shut up. No cringe bullshit, useless features and padding everywhere.

Needs a physical version !

 

[Scotty W]

Does it matter?

Also, I find it really hard to believe they release it to current audience in tank controls. These belong on the PS1. I think they'd like to sell their collection.

I only played TR1 on Saturn for the first time last year. I have looked into getting a PS1 just to play the other games.

I don’t like tank controls, but they don’t bother me enough to lose interest in this collection.

 

[Dr. Suchong]

Nathan McCree did a stellar job on the soundtrack

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Let's hope that this will be better than the GTA collection...

Also : is there going to be a physical version or is it only digital ? (PS5)

 

[Fart Knight]

Digital only

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

They better not fuck with the tank controls. Does anyone know has it been confirmed that it's true to the original controls?

 

[rofif]

idk I think this looks pretty good. Keeps the original style

 

[Killer8]

I think generally this looks decent, and i'm usually pretty hard on remasters. The changes are tasteful. Let's be honest, this is early 3D we are talking about here and the original Lara model was not holding up. The new model looks similar to the HD generation and they thankfully kept her big tits.

The general mood of the lighting is also similar. Thankfully they did not decide "fuck it, let's randomly change the time of day for no reason at all", like some other remasters do. They fixed some of the awful tiling of the original's texture placement. Things which used to be a set of flat pixels, like the window frames, are now represented in true 3D. The foliage also looks a lot better for this reason.

It's not the Nightdive level of polish but it's serviceable. I pre-ordered a game key on Steam because it's pretty cheap and this should look and run great on the Steam Deck.

 

[rofif]

I think generally this looks decent, and i'm usually pretty hard on remasters. The changes are tasteful. Let's be honest, this is early 3D we are talking about here and the original Lara model was not holding up. The new model looks similar to the HD generation and they thankfully kept her big tits.

The general mood of the lighting is also similar. Thankfully they did not decide "fuck it, let's randomly change the time of day for no reason at all", like some other remasters do. They fixed some of the awful tiling of the original's texture placement. Things which used to be a set of flat pixels, like the window frames, are now represented in true 3D. The foliage also looks a lot better for this reason.

It's not the Nightdive level of polish but it's serviceable. I pre-ordered a game key on Steam because it's pretty cheap and this should look and run great on the Steam Deck.

her new model looks how I remember her from official renders

 

[Deerock71]

I'm on board, but only if I actually get a physical copy.

 

[poppabk]

Another "remaster" which is using AI upscaled assets?

The "assets" look the same size not upscaled at all?

 

[Markio128]

I haven’t played these games since they were originally released, so I’m really looking forward to playing them again. I also like how the games look visually.

I’d have bought the MGS collection if a similar effort had been made.

 

[Crayon]

Played 1 on Saturn last year, which is unquestionably the worst way to play it, and had a blast. I’ll be buying this.

Oh ived played it on ngauge.

I like the Saturn version because it lets me play my Saturn. Funny, I just hooked it up like a hour ago.

 

[Scotty W]

Oh ived played it on ngauge.

I like the Saturn version because it lets me play my Saturn. Funny, I just hooked it up like a hour ago.

Good excuse to play Sega Rally.

 

[Crayon]

Good excuse to play Sega Rally.

It is. But damn have I played a lot of that.

And damn that terrible ai in vf2. So much harder to enjoy alone.

Right now I just tried amok for the first time and I love it so far.

 

[Alexios]

idk I think this looks pretty good. Keeps the original style

The very first scene looks really messy like it was randomly AI textured or something, the next one looks much better with the actually nice and fitting ground texture and redone tree trunk and such and the others are a mixed bag in similar ways. Generally I'd play this over the originals I guess so long as there are no new bugs/issues since it probably also has better draw distance, framerate and other stuff (but you probably get that on patched old PC versions anyway). Well, one thing I hope they've done even if it breaks the balance of some minor segments to your favor is to make her climb up ladders and get to crawling way faster and smoother, it's so clunky, weird and slow in the original games compared to the rest of her moves that it makes me not want to replay the games that have those, so just stick with the first two games even though The Last Revelation is ace.

 

[SnapShot]

I haven't sat down and finished any of the classic TR games besides TR6, furthest I got was 3 levels into TR1, and tried TR4 and got lost in the first adult lara desert level. This might give me an excuse to finally play through them proper.

 

[thismeinteil]

Idk. I think I would have preferred they focused completely on TR1 and just done a full remake. Keep the level design the same, maybe a smidge larger, with modern controls. If that did well, then move on to TR2 and then to TR3.

 

[Jesb]

It’s nice this is coming but I’d only play it for free lol.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Idk. I think I would have preferred they focused completely on TR1 and just done a full remake. Keep the level design the same, maybe a smidge larger, with modern controls. If that did well, then move on to TR2 and then to TR3.

We already got that.

 

[KyoZz]

We already got that.

They did an AMAZING job with Anniversary. It's a game I love to play from time to time it's just so good <3
It's also the best render of Lara imo, tons of little animations for her that make the controls perfect.

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

It'd be funny if this time the nude code was real.

 

[thismeinteil]

We already got that.

Yea, but that's 15+ years old at this point. I'm talking about something built for the PS5.

 

[Panajev2001a]

idk I think this looks pretty good. Keeps the original style

Mmmh… curious…

The scene in the thumbnail still looks wrong as the textures are much higher resolution yet the geometry behind it is incredibly sharp and low poly which does not work well. It makes the poor geometry stand out even more. Full faithful remakes that keep the gameplay the same are tricky with titles of the early 3D generation for a reason…

Yeah, all the scenes that look the best are scenes where the level geometry is naturally flat or blocky such as the room in the temple or Lara’s house. Anywhere else where it is a more natural setting, the high resolution textures make the low poly geometry stand out and look actually worse IMHO.