Support NeoGAF

[Amir0x]

So he would effectively prove you and your ilk wrong if he were to get a aggregate score of 60%, right?

I mean, games below 60% usually suck, right?

No. The game is shitty because I say it is shitty. Most games above 80% are still shitty, because I say they're shitty.

The problem is that Denis Dyack himself apparently believes in setting such an astronomically low standard for his game that even he isn't confident enough in his product to defend it with anything approaching real risk. What sort of bet is that? I can't exactly blame him. If my game was Too Human, I'd probably be comparing it to the metacritic rankings of ELF BOWLING and call it a day. That's probably the only sure bet. And remember, HE is the one who called for the bet. It is he who has to own up.

But hey maybe it moves past the laughable abuse of classic Norse mythology and his cliff note browsing and interpretation of Friedrich Nietzsche (wouldn't count on that though, judging by the poor literature rape Lovecraft went through in Eternal Darkness), and maybe it's much better looking than the mishmash of art direction and awful texture and lighting work that is in videos and screens. Maybe it also plays better than a generic RPG-cum-dungeon crawler with action elements, and it's way more rad that anything we should assume. Maybe. But I think if SK's catalog of disasters-shakily-defended-by-console-specific enthusiasts is any indication, it won't be.

But if he is confident in his product, than we should meet halfway between shitty and great no? 75%-80%? In any events once gamerankings and metacritic became the criteria, I just entered for the lulz because setting his game at HAZE and LAIR and trying to stapple SONYGAF conspiracy to the end was too good to believe.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

one thing did occur to me. Thanks to Dennis for doing this on a weds. That means it'll be brought up in this week's 1up yours podcast.

 

[Nif]

Isn't the whole purpose of this thread to judge the game before having played it?

I thought it was to call out the unfair trolling the game receives here, even in threads with positive articles about it. And I don't get why people think this is a a Sony-conspiracy theory now. He probably mentioned those two games specifically because they were recent, and people like Mabuza insist to get their "revenge trolling" on for Haze, or how people expect it to be the largest big-budget flop of the generation.

I'm far from a Dyack fan, but if I'm in any camp, I'm in the one that agrees that sanctioned trolling is bad for GAF and potential fans of those games.

 

[MechDX]

Call him crazy, call him sad, call him cool, whatever...but what he did is get people talking about the game. period. He has people remembering the game. He has people discussing the game's existence. He is bringing relevance to the game whether you like it or not with this thread being that everyone keeps it being bumped near the top. in the midst of the gears of war 2, resistance, metal gear 4, tales of vesperia, SC4/SF4, bionic commando, etc talk....he is keeping Too human alive on this forum.
well played dennis. I see what you are trying to do.

anyways,

ever since I heard about them opting out of the 4 player co-op and going down to two player co-op, I kinda wrote the game off.

however, I am not for or against...I am just gonna wait and see instead of assume with this one.

So true. This shit will be on every videogame news website by tomorrow snd eill do nothing but create an online stir about this game.

 

[TheHeretic]

No. The game is shitty because I say it is shitty. Most games above 80% are still shitty, because I say they're shitty.

The problem is that Denis Dyack himself apparently believes in setting such an astronomically low standard for his game that even he isn't confident enough in his product to defend it with anything approaching real risk. What sort of bet is that? I can't exactly blame him. If my game was Too Human, I'd probably be comparing it to the metacritic rankings of ELF BOWLING and call it a day. That's probably the only sure bet. And remember, HE is the one who called for the bet. It is he who has to own up.

But hey maybe it moves past the laughable abuse of classic Norse mythology and his cliff note browsing and interpretation of Friedrich Nietzsche (wouldn't count on that though, judging by the poor literature rape Lovecraft went through in Eternal Darkness), and maybe it's much better looking than the mishmash of art direction and awful texture and lighting work that is in videos and screens. Maybe it also plays better than a generic RPG-cum-dungeon crawler with action elements, and it's way more rad that anything we should assume. Maybe. But I think if SK's catalog of disasters-shakily-defended-by-console specific enthusiast is any indication, it won't be.

But if he is confident in his product, than we should meet halfway between shitty and great no? 75%-80%? In any events once gamerankings and metacritic became the criteria, I just entered for the lulz because setting his game at HAZE and LAIR and trying to stapple SONYGAF conspiracy to the end was too good to believe.

You aren't the authority on anything. 85% Is the silver lining because thats exactly where Dead Rising sits on Gamerankings.

 

[JoeLang]

The scary thing...Amirox is taking this more seriously than Denis.

 

[JordoftheDead]

Really..weird..thread, even more when the game dev was the one that started it..
But as much as I found Eternal Darkness, average at best..and how Too Human has been jumping console from console...I've always been willing to give it a try..

Heck I'm one of the few that liked the HUD in the game..

You found Eternal Darkness average at best?...
I picked up ED and played it for half an hour deciding I didn't like it.
About a year later in a gaming dry-patch I gave it another chance with my GF and after getting further into the game we both became obsessed with it.
We ended up beating it four times for the 'proper' ending.

To me, it's the best game that hardly anyone played last-gen. Those that did play it didn't seem to give it the attention is deserved.

 

[kmfdmpig]

Being active in the community = Whining like a little bitch about the relative fairness of people dissing on his shitty game?

Yeah, he really showed us. We might get TAGS!*


*

Spoiler

if you agree to his hilarious LOL-worthy criteria

If it were any other game, then I would agree that it would be a lame move to do what he's done, but with this particular game, which for some reason has been held up as a whipping boy for months I don't exactly feel too sorry for defenseless old GAF when even mods troll the shit out of threads in which people are simply interested in talking about the game or sharing new information they had found. We see people like Mabuza right the most inane troll posts ever and it's encouraged, so I can certainly understand when DD might just think that he has something to prove, and frankly with most of GAF treating him like the anti-christ I don't think that there's really that much goodwill he needs to worry about losing.

 

[Sean]

Cheesemeister or donny(?) has a script that runs through GAF posts and parses specific text (which they use in NPD prediction threads). Someone should ask them if they can tally up all the For/Against votes.

 

[DuckRacer]

Um, I don't care about this game at all, so I'll just vote "indifferent". The game looks boring, but seeing how I'm not a fan of these kind of games I'm not in any legitimate position to judge, so eh.


This thread on the other hand is amazing, in many good and bad ways.

 

[Gattsu25]

Still waiting, Denis. The challenge:

If Too Human has above a 90% aggregate on Gamerankings two weeks after release, I lose. If it's below 90%, you lose. The loser gives $1000 to the winner's choice of 501(c)(3) charitable organization.

Confident enough to stand by your "I certainly feel it is the best game we have ever made" comment?

:lol

Awesome

aaaaaannnd...

Glad to see a decent response so far. We may have to "Wambulance" for all the mods claiming the internet is not F41R!

The currency is the tag and metascore is the metric - don't try to change the bet. All those "for" and "against" get their tags changed. To all the mods - pick your meta score. Here is some troll reference from your camp to save you time:

Haze (PS3) Avg Ratio: 57%
Lair (PS3) Avg Ratio: 56%

Don't go to high or you may show your true colors. No more crying, no more trolling, just pick. I would suggest the tag stay for 6 months but I am pretty easy on that.

The "Against" seem in the minority so it should not take you too long to change the tags.

Cop out. Have the mods even agreed to the bet? What the fuck are the stakes again? You don't post here, so why the hell should you care what your tag says? That's like a jock challenging a quadriplegic to a bet where the loser has to be tossed in a lake.

or something.

I'll only agree to this under modified terms: Too Human gets a 90+ on Meta or Gamerankings and I'll take a fucking tag that says "Owned by a mental midget". A lower rating nets you...well...you choose because who the hell cares anyway? Whatever tag you get won't mean a frakking thing because you don't post here.

Agree to those terms and then I'll cast my vote as: Against.

Don't get me wrong...I think your game will be entertaining, but I also think you're one of the most obnoxiously immature (and petty) developers to ever think they were important.

 

[sevenchaos]

My inclination, too. Maybe challenge the critics to a boxing match. You can motion-capture it and put it in your next game.

 

[WickedLaharl]

Am I allowed to vote "against" simply because Dyack must be a tremendous asshole to subject us all to a thread like this?

what the hell are you talking about? this is the filet mignon of threads!

 

[AranhaHunter]

Sorry Denis, but you really need to hear what this sounds like to everyone else.

http://denisdyak.ytmnd.com/

:lol

 

[fernoca]

You found Eternal Darkness average at best?...
I picked up ED and played it for half an hour deciding I didn't like it.
About a year later in a gaming dry-patch I gave it another chance with my GF and after getting further into the game we both became obsessed with it.
We ended up beating it four times for the 'proper' ending.

To me, it's the best game that hardly anyone played last-gen. Those that did play it didn't seem to give it the attention is deserved.

What's wrong with that?
Had it preordered since it was a Nintendo 64 title..
I liked some stuff, hated other..

Or I'm not allowed to find games..average? I mean..is not like I go around screaming Eternal Darkness sucks or anything like that..

 

[FightyF]

75-79% scores are a C+ grade which is average so you are saying if the game gets a failing grade of D then we should jump for joy?

I'm saying that if the game gets higher than a D, then all of the people slagging on the game are proven wrong.

 

[watership]

I'm far from a Dyack fan, but if I'm in any camp, I'm in the one that agrees that sanctioned trolling is bad for GAF and potential fans of those games.

Are you saying the mods are deliberately instigating and contributing to the trolling of Too Human?

 

[JoeLang]

Are review copies of Too Human already out?

According to Hilary at IGN, he has already played through Too Human. Also, didn't Kotaku mention in their post about this maelstrom that they were going back to playing Too Human?

Maybe Denis has already talked with game journalists who have played his game and is extremely confident.

 

[Hannar]

Are review copies of Too Human already out?

According to Hilary at IGN, he has already played through Too Human. Also, didn't Kotaku mention in their post about this maelstrom that they were going back to playing Too Human?

Maybe Denis has already talked with those who have reviewed is game and is extremely confident.

Highly likely.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Are review copies of Too Human already out?

According to Hilary at IGN, he has already played through Too Human. Also, didn't Kotaku mention in their post about this maelstrom that they were going back to playing Too Human?

Maybe Denis has already talked with those who have reviewed is game and is extremely confident.

Are you implying Denis created this topic having knowledge that gave him an advantage for his bet?

 

[purg3]

one thing did occur to me. Thanks to Dennis for doing this on a weds. That means it'll be brought up in this week's 1up yours podcast.

Will Garnett and Shane be back for this weeks show?

 

[Hannar]

Are you implying Denis created this topic having knowledge that gave him an advantage for his bet?

Like he said.... he had the advantage of playing his game.

 

[Cheeto]

No. The game is shitty because I say it is shitty. Most games above 80% are still shitty, because I say they're shitty.

The problem is that Denis Dyack himself apparently believes in setting such an astronomically low standard for his game that even he isn't confident enough in his product to defend it with anything approaching real risk. What sort of bet is that? I can't exactly blame him. If my game was Too Human, I'd probably be comparing it to the metacritic rankings of ELF BOWLING and call it a day. That's probably the only sure bet. And remember, HE is the one who called for the bet. It is he who has to own up.

But hey maybe it moves past the laughable abuse of classic Norse mythology and his cliff note browsing and interpretation of Friedrich Nietzsche (wouldn't count on that though, judging by the poor literature rape Lovecraft went through in Eternal Darkness), and maybe it's much better looking than the mishmash of art direction and awful texture and lighting work that is in videos and screens. Maybe it also plays better than a generic RPG-cum-dungeon crawler with action elements, and it's way more rad that anything we should assume. Maybe. But I think if SK's catalog of disasters-shakily-defended-by-console-specific enthusiasts is any indication, it won't be.

But if he is confident in his product, than we should meet halfway between shitty and great no? 75%-80%? In any events once gamerankings and metacritic became the criteria, I just entered for the lulz because setting his game at HAZE and LAIR and trying to stapple SONYGAF conspiracy to the end was too good to believe.

Why do you have to bring elf bowling into this?

 

[Cipherr]

AGAINST

respect -1
thread is unprofessional imo

WTF is this? Unprofessional? So he needs to be professional when he is here now? :lol As if we would return the favor? Really? REALLY?

Look, I dont like Dyack, and I havent ever liked a game he has made (sorry dude, just being honest) but the bull in this thread has reached an epic level. You guys trying to act like he is some tremendous douche for doing the kind of thing GAF does on a REGULAR is stupid. Let him have his bet, lord knows you all have spent the last 3 freaking years laying in to him and his game. Now he confronts you head on, on your own level (yea....act like you've never seen a Gaf tag bet before, go ahead) and you are suddenly above this immaturity?

Complaining that this thread is some sort of stain on GAF is ridiculous when we get multi paged threads on topics much sillier. Jesus Christ I hope this game pulls something amazing and dethrones OOT or whatever the hell is sitting on top of meta critic and the like just to watch you guys writhe in pain. Who the hell cares if you arent going to buy it, go click on another one of the dozens of topics then.

I'm going to bet For, just to piss you guys off.

 

[MrDaravon]

Glad to see a decent response so far. We may have to "Wambulance" for all the mods claiming the internet is not F41R!

The currency is the tag and metascore is the metric - don't try to change the bet. All those "for" and "against" get their tags changed. To all the mods - pick your meta score. Here is some troll reference from your camp to save you time:

Haze (PS3) Avg Ratio: 57%
Lair (PS3) Avg Ratio: 56%

Don't go to high or you may show your true colors. No more crying, no more trolling, just pick. I would suggest the tag stay for 6 months but I am pretty easy on that.

The "Against" seem in the minority so it should not take you too long to change the tags.

Wow, major backpedaling. You claim it's the best game you've ever made, ED got 90%, and you're setting the bar at fucking Haze and Lair? And no one's even agreed to this "bet" that you've completely taken upon yourself and are apparently going to somehow enforce. Really? Reallllly?

I'm completely convinced now you're fucking with us to get free PR or something, because there's no way someone could head a studio and be intelligent enough to be actually doing this seriously. Even if the game is great I'm just going to think you're a loony whenever I play it now.

 

[Francias Castiglione]

The Lair/Haze references were most certainly to do with fucknut trolls who claimed Too Human would end up like those heavily hyped sacks of shit. Hence "troll reference".

Are review copies of Too Human already out?

According to Hilary at IGN, he has already played through Too Human. Also, didn't Kotaku mention in their post about this maelstrom that they were going back to playing Too Human?

Maybe Denis has already talked with game journalists who have played his game and is extremely confident.

Well then he has cheated and it isn't fair!!!!!

 

[mwgiii]

Denis is a marketing genius.

Love him (as I do) or hate him, he gets people talking about his games.

I have high hopes for Too Human so I am firmly in the FOR camp.

 

[Lilsnubby]

I'm "for". The art direction is derivitive and unfortunate. It's not bad, it's just not very imaginative or original. The game looks like a lot of fun videos though. The systems design look awesome. It just looks like a nice mix of action and rpg elements with nice balance. The whole "Goblin Man of Norway" thing certainly opens them up to ridicule though. For all this talk about "story" I'll be interested how that translates into a game with gears of war-like outfits and generic particle effect animations. Basically I like what I've seen of the team in videos. they're in upstate NY, of all places. they're underdogs. I would love for them to shock the world.

 

[MechDX]

The Lair/Haze references were most certainly to do with fucknut trolls who claimed Too Human would end up like those heavily hyped sacks of shit. Hence "troll reference".



Well then he has cheated and it isn't fair!!!!!

And saying a game is shit before you even play it is?

 

[JordoftheDead]

What's wrong with that?
Had it preordered since it was a Nintendo 64 title..
I liked some stuff, hated other..

Or I'm not allowed to find games..average? I mean..is not like I go around screaming Eternal Darkness sucks or anything like that..

Relax man, I didn't say I had an issue with you finding it average, I just disagree.

 

[A Human Becoming]

Like he said.... he had the advantage of playing his game.

I meant that he had the advantage of already receiving positive feedback from reviewers and possibly scores.

 

[barnacles]

THIS. SHIT. JUST. GOT. REALER.

Yeah. By about - $1000. Whoohoo.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

Will Garnett and Shane be back for this weeks show?

yea they'll be back, which makes the timing even better

 

[akachan ningen]

Denis is a marketing genius.

Love him (as I do) or hate him, he gets people talking about his games.

I have high hopes for Too Human so I am firmly in the FOR camp.

If he's such a genius, why is he directing his marketing at hardcore gaming sites instead of mainstream gamers who know nothing of Too Human?

 

[I_D]

The graphics are hardly bragworthy.
The animations are terrible.
The sound effects are also terrible.
The acting (in cutscenes) is laughable.
The storyline seems pretty lame, though at least it has good origins.
Extremely vital features have been cut from the game.


But.... it's the gameplay that really matters, and I REALLY want a next-gen Diablo, so I'm in the "FOR" camp.





Unless, of course, Diablo 3 truly is announced soon.
That would put me in the "THIS GAME IS NOW USELESS" camp.

 

[barnacles]

I don't know thing one about Too Human.

It's a hybrid game, combining a dating sim with an arcade racer where you breed these cartoony animals and race them and see if they'll go out with you.

If you are "Too Human" looking then the cartoon animals turn you down. So you have to dress up like the animals to get them to like you. The only way to win animal costumes is to win races. But the cartoon animals won't win races if you won't date them.


It's a conundrum.

 

[HiredMan]

For

Was very disappointed when the 4 player co-op was dropped as that was the most appealing aspect of the game for me. Still looks very promising though.

 

[Micromegas]

The whole "Goblin Man of Norway" thing certainly opens them up to ridicule though.

Completely disagree. I thought that fake-umentary stuff was very well done.

 

[JoeLang]

If he's such a genius, why is he directing his marketing at hardcore gaming sites instead of mainstream gamers who know nothing of Too Human?

Who's to say he hasn't? Obviously there will be a demo and commercials from Microsoft.
Fact of the matter is that Denis has made like 3 posts which has taken him probably 10 minutes tops leading to over 60,000 hits about Too Human.

 

[Azih]

You know how Jeff Bell was raked over the coals in the entire gaming press for a PRIVATE PM on GAF?

Well this thread reflects a thousand times worse on Denis Dyack.

 

[AranhaHunter]

TWO HUMAN

THE TRAILER!


(thanks to Darunia for the idea)


fuck am I bored...

LOL

 

[C4Lukins]

If he's such a genius, why is he directing his marketing at hardcore gaming sites instead of mainstream gamers who know nothing of Too Human?

This fiasco has been mentioned on 1up, Kotaku, and Edge's blog already. That is all I know about so far, but he has managed to keep the game visible for better or worse throughout these past couple of years. Who knows if it will backfire, but it will not come out virtually unnoticed like the Dark Sector's of the world.

 

[CowboyAstronaut]

:lol :lol

I think Denis mentioned Haze and Lair in this thread because, despite how terrible those games have looked all throughout the entire stage of their development, they were being still receiving large amounts of hype by people here on GAF.

I don't think people like to revisit it, but Lair was being called a Killer App and was one of the biggest guns in the Console war. At least that's what a lot of people here on GAF were making it out to be. With the known outcomes of both Lair and Haze, it might be possible to say that, even now, the level of negativity Too Human has gotten has eclipsed even those 2 terrible games. How does that happen? Denis isn't likable? People think he talks too much? Whatever the case may be, the Lair devs talked far more trash than Denis has ever done. Denis' biggest crime here on GAF might truly be the fact that he actually cares and believes in the game his team is developing just as much as he's been saying he did all along.

There was a brief moment of honesty during the later development periods of Haze, but that still doesn't put the level of criticism it got anywhere on the level of what Too Human was/is receiving.

The low metacritic scores those games received being pointed out might have a bit of significance because, unless I'm mistaken, doesn't the majority of Too Human's largest critics here on GAF expect Too Human to be this year's Lair? Weren't most people expecting this game to end up being so horrible that it would score as horrible an average on Metacritic as Haze and Lair did?

Maybe my interpretation of why Denis mentioned Lair and Haze is completely off, but I think it makes some sense. I don't it's so much that he's trying to set the bar low, but that his game wont be quite the trainwreck that everyone expects it to be. To know where he stands on the metacritic bar it's in his words, not the numbers. He believes this is the best game they've ever made. The best game they've ever made can't score in the 60s and 70s on metacritic. He believes that the game will be one of this year's best games. It's clear he doesn't see getting above Lair and Haze as a success. It's pretty clear to me that he expects his game to be unbelievable and worthy of 90s.

Whether it actually gets those is another story entirely, but I feel it will personally end up between 86-90 and that wont make it a flop in my book. That will make it amazing.

As I said before though, I'm excited for the game, but if it doesn't deliver for me I wont hesitate to say so.

 

[Chrange]

Being active in the community = Whining like a little bitch about the relative fairness of people dissing on his shitty game?

His game sucks.

You want to talk relative fairness? Really?

 

[Amarox]

I REALLY want a next-gen Diablo

Then go play Titan Quest.

 

[Lykathea]

Pretty epic thread, too bad some people can't seem to pick up on Denis' rather obvious mocking of NeoGAF itself that is latent in this 'ordeal'.

 

[Phthisis]

WTF is this? Unprofessional? So he needs to be professional when he is here now? :lol As if we would return the favor? Really? REALLY?

Look, I dont like Dyack, and I havent ever liked a game he has made (sorry dude, just being honest) but the bull in this thread has reached an epic level. You guys trying to act like he is some tremendous douche for doing the kind of thing GAF does on a REGULAR is stupid. Let him have his bet, lord knows you all have spent the last 3 freaking years laying in to him and his game. Now he confronts you head on, on your own level (yea....act like you've never seen a Gaf tag bet before, go ahead) and you are suddenly above this immaturity?

Complaining that this thread is some sort of stain on GAF is ridiculous when we get multi paged threads on topics much sillier. Jesus Christ I hope this game pulls something amazing and dethrones OOT or whatever the hell is sitting on top of meta critic and the like just to watch you guys writhe in pain. Who the hell cares if you arent going to buy it, go click on another one of the dozens of topics then.

I'm going to bet For, just to piss you guys off.

This is one of the only correct things in this entire thread.

 

[HallucinatingElvis]

pretty fucking awesome if you ask me, shows Denis is still just a guy like you and I. If we can waste our time away being critical of this that and everything else under the sun I see no reason why someone like Denis should be critisized for coming here and being critical of us.

 

[I_D]

Then go play Titan Quest.

Yeah..... no.


If you actually look into the behind-the-scenes gameplay of Diablo 2 (which I do) then you'll see that they aren't even close.


Which is why I highly doubt Too Human will be even remotely close to Diablo 2's core gameplay..... but I still want it, so I have hope.

 

[Quazar]

I can't wait for 1up yours this week.