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[CornBurrito]

What does this even mean?

I think it means someone doesn't understand how statistics work.

Like some women are taller than men, so obviously no height difference between the sexes exists.

Right Lebrick? Because that's basically what you're arguing.

 

[IHaveCandy]

I don't understand why somebody who feels they are of a different gender is compelled to attire themselves in a typical way of that gender. If a male develops and has the brain chemistry of a woman, I understand how that may be uncommon but possible. What I don't get is why that male then is apparently compelled to wear what women typically wear. A lot of women's wear is partially due to function, and not just form. And things that deal with just form should be things anybody should be able to wear regardless of whatever gender they recognize themselves under.


So basically, what I'm asking is why do I not ever see or hear about a transgendered person that decides to wear what they like to wear instead of what their gender categorizes them to wear? Why does a male with the mind of a female feel compelled to dress himself/herself as a typical female?

Sorry for the page bump, but I really would like an answer to this.

 

[Cyan]

I don't understand why somebody who feels they are of a different gender is compelled to attire themselves in a typical way of that gender. If a male develops and has the brain chemistry of a woman, I understand how that may be uncommon but possible. What I don't get is why that male then is apparently compelled to wear what women typically wear. A lot of women's wear is partially due to function, and not just form. And things that deal with just form should be things anybody should be able to wear regardless of whatever gender they recognize themselves under.


So basically, what I'm asking is why do I not ever see or hear about a transgendered person that decides to wear what they like to wear instead of what their gender categorizes them to wear? Why does a male with the mind of a female feel compelled to dress himself/herself as a typical female?

Why do men feel compelled to dress like men? In general, I mean? Why do members of category x frequently adopt characteristic y that is associated with category x? There's your answer.

 

[BadAss2961]

What does this even mean?

That not all cis and trans people have distinct differences in their brain that makes them what they are.

 

[yeoz]

So basically, what I'm asking is why do I not ever see or hear about a transgendered person that decides to wear what they like to wear instead of what their gender categorizes them to wear? Why does a male with the mind of a female feel compelled to dress himself/herself as a typical female?

We feel the need to express ourselves as the gender we identify as (whatever that might be), and presentation, including how one is dressed, is a big part of that.

 

[-COOLIO-]

i was thinking, and even if you had an established gender identity at 3, different from your sex, does that mean that in the long term you will always be better off having had a sex change in your pubescent years? im guessing it's a win in most cases but hormone blockers at around 10 years old is such an intense decision.

 

[Cyan]

That not all cis and trans people have distinct differences in their brain that makes them what they are.

Cool, what are you basing this statement on?

 

[Devolution]

i was thinking, and even if you had an established gender identity at 3, different from your sex, does that mean that in the long term you will always be better off having had a sex change in your pubescent years? im guessing it's a win in most cases but hormone blockers at around 10 years old is such an intense decision.

How is it any more intense than forcing someone to live in the physical body of the gender they don't feel aligned with?

 

[IHaveCandy]

Why do men feel compelled to dress like men? In general, I mean? Why do members of category x frequently adopt characteristic y that is associated with category x? There's your answer.

I think a lot of that has to due with social norms being followed. I used to find any jean even remotely skinny very girly and thought it would look feminine on me. I've loosened up on that a lot and don't mind wearing any jeans that may be skinnier as long as they are comfy, which super skinny jeans aren't. So if we're going by that logic, wouldn't a male to female transgender that does not intend to do any sort of operation would feel like they stand out more out of social norms by dressing in female attire?


I may not be able to really put myself in this mindset since I really don't know how much of my tastes are controlled by my gender. But I strongly believe that if one day I suddenly had the brain chemistry of a woman, but every other facet of myself remained the same, I would still prefer wearing jeans and shirts because they are comfortable and I look good in them. Not necessarily in a masculine way either. I just can't imagine myself suddenly wanting to wear skirts or skinnier clothing. In my mindset, I feel like clothing has more relation to your body type than your gender.

 

[-COOLIO-]

How is it any more intense than forcing someone to live in the physical body of the gender they don't feel aligned with?

you could always get the sex change later, but if you dont, you still have a fully male system and that certainly has it's advantages.

 

[yeoz]

i was thinking, and even if you had an established gender identity at 3, different from your sex, does that mean that in the long term you will always be better off having had a sex change in your pubescent years? im guessing it's a win in most cases but hormone blockers at around 10 years old is such an intense decision.

They are probably not on puberty blockers yet. Hormone blockers I think aren't that big of a deal either.
They'll just hold off puberty, which will just start right up after they stop, if they so choose too. It's not a big deal, honestly.

Decide puberty blocking was right? Win! Life goes on.
Decide puberty blocking was wrong? Stop hormone blockers, restart puberty. Life goes on.

 

[CornBurrito]

That not all cis and trans people have distinct differences in their brain that makes them what they are.

Do you have any actual data to back this assertion?

 

[IHaveCandy]

How is it any more intense than forcing someone to live in the physical body of the gender they don't feel aligned with?

See, that's what I mean. Why does a transgendered person not feel right with the body they have. Why does a male to female transgender not feel right not having breasts? Is it a matter of brain chemistry? Does a female grow up naturally with the mindset that she is supposed to have breasts even if there is no social pressures making her think so?

 

[beje]

There's a pretty good documentary about transgender kids (ranging from 6 to 16 years old) in Youtube most of you should watch as it gives a good insight. The whole "what if I don't want anymore" is a serious topic that is touched several times, and kids are completely aware through all the therapy sessions of the consequences of the whole process (hormone shots, being sterile after SRS, etc...) so I doubt any "false positive" could slip through. I mean, you can hold on a "lie" or "whim" for so long, if some kid is crossdressing (not actual gender dysphoria) just for attention they would chicken out very early on the process. Just the thought of getting into medication for hormone blocking would be more than enough given the hate most kids have for medicines and such.

 

[BadAss2961]

Cool, what are you basing this statement on?

I'm basing it on the same assumptions that a 10 year old boy has a brain disorder that means he's a girl. The OP has no information about this kid going to professionals, yet much of GAF assumes that the parents are right.

 

[-COOLIO-]

They are probably not on puberty blockers yet. Hormone blockers I think aren't that big of a deal either.
They'll just hold off puberty, which will just start right up after they stop, if they so choose too. It's not a big deal, honestly.

Decide puberty blocking was right? Win! Life goes on.
Decide puberty blocking was wrong? Stop hormone blockers, restart puberty. Life goes on.

ooohhhh, thats not so bad, i thought theyd have long term ramifications. i shoulda googled em.

edit: what does the follow up entail? opposite sex hormones until adult age and then a possible sex change?

 

[Devolution]

See, that's what I mean. Why does a transgendered person not feel right with the body they have. Why does a male to female transgender not feel right not having breasts? Is it a matter of brain chemistry? Does a female grow up naturally with the mindset that she is supposed to have breasts even if there is no social pressures making her think so?

You'll have to ask someone who is transgendered. For me when I developed it just felt like it was another stage, I'd imagine for transgendered folks it feels like something is really off or wrong. Imagine if you woke up tomorrow in someone else's body. That's how I imagine it feels but they could honestly explain it from their point of view.

 

[Xenon]

I think I am going to disagree with this decision, at least with what I know. It seems to me that the parents of this child could be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. For all we know the child is just an effeminate boy whose parents found it more acceptable to change him into a girl rather than deal with with a boy who acts like a girl and likes girl's cloths.

I am not a fan of people making this choice for him at this point in his life and not being ignorant with my use of pronouns here because he is still a boy. When he gets older and more self aware then I will respect his choice. But right now he is just too young to know what the fuck is going on.

 

[Cyan]

I'm basing it on the same assumptions that a 10 year old boy has a brain disorder that means he's a girl. The OP has no information about this kid going to professionals, yet much of GAF assumes that the parents are right.

Sorry, this doesn't really hold up or even have any relevance.

You said that not all transgender people have distinct differences in their brains making them what they are. This is not a question of assumptions, but a question of fact.

Are you acknowledging, then, that you simply made it up?

 

[IHaveCandy]

You'll have to ask someone who is transgendered. For me when I developed it just felt like it was another stage, I'd imagine for transgendered folks it feels like something is really off or wrong. Imagine if you woke up tomorrow in someone else's body. That's how I imagine it feels but they could honestly explain it from their point of view.

I can only analyze how I grew up, but I can't say I have any sort of identifying attachment to my penis. If I lost my penis, I'd be bummed due to no longer being able to have sex, but I wouldn't feel as if my gender or sexual identity had been changed or ruined. I believe if I grew up with the same life I did without a penis, I'd still feel like a man. I just view the penis as a sexual organ. A pleasurable tool for reproduction. That's why whenever I hear about transgendered people feeling the need to have these operations to feel more complete, I find it very odd. I wonder if others share my views about their own sexual organs.

 

[Cyan]

I can only analyze how I grew up, but I can't say I have any sort of identifying attachment to my penis. If I lost my penis, I'd be bummed due to no longer being able to have sex, but I wouldn't feel as if my gender or sexual identity had been changed or ruined. I believe if I grew up with the same life I did without a penis, I'd still feel like a man. I just view the penis as a sexual organ. A pleasurable tool for reproduction. That's why whenever I hear about transgendered people feeling the need to have these operations to feel more complete, I find it very odd. I wonder if others share my views about their own sexual organs.

It might simply be that your view of these things or your sense of self is somewhat different than most people's.

For example, do you inwardly cringe when you hear the name "Lorena Bobbit"?

 

[IHaveCandy]

It might simply be that your view of these things or your sense of self is somewhat different than most people's.

For example, do you inwardly cringe when you hear the name "Lorena Bobbit"?

No. Should I know who that is?

 

[Earthstrike]

I don't understand why somebody who feels they are of a different gender is compelled to attire themselves in a typical way of that gender. If a male develops and has the brain chemistry of a woman, I understand how that may be uncommon but possible. What I don't get is why that male then is apparently compelled to wear what women typically wear. A lot of women's wear is partially due to function, and not just form. And things that deal with just form should be things anybody should be able to wear regardless of whatever gender they recognize themselves under.


So basically, what I'm asking is why do I not ever see or hear about a transgendered person that decides to wear what they like to wear instead of what their gender categorizes them to wear? Why does a male with the mind of a female feel compelled to dress himself/herself as a typical female?

But if they like to wear female clothing, are they not an instance of what you are looking for? Essentially what you're asking may very well boil down to, how come women don't wear men's clothes? The answer is that they are men's clothes and (most) women wouldn't want to express themselves that way. So why wouldn't a female in a male body feel the same way? Perhaps a question that may be more addressing the point you are trying to make is "why aren't there more tomboyish transgendered m2f. Then again I'm not sure how many data sets have been compiled to analyse this and they may very well exist.

 

[Cyan]

No. Should I know who that is?

Oh man, I'm showing my age. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt

 

[CornBurrito]

You'll have to ask someone who is transgendered. For me when I developed it just felt like it was another stage, I'd imagine for transgendered folks it feels like something is really off or wrong. Imagine if you woke up tomorrow in someone else's body. That's how I imagine it feels but they could honestly explain it from their point of view.

I actually disagree. I think a psychologist, or better yet a neuroscientist is more qualified to answer the question as to why trans individuals exist.

I'm basing it on the same assumptions that a 10 year old boy has a brain disorder that means he's a girl. The OP has no information about this kid going to professionals, yet much of GAF assumes that the parents are right.

I'm not sure what you're saying.

I said trans individuals actually have notable statistically significant brain differences compared to cis individuals.

That's not exactly a brain disorder. I'm not claiming this boy has that. But you're saying that "10 is too young."

No it isn't. These differences exist well before 10.

 

[IHaveCandy]

I just googled the name. I've heard that story. I cringe about it because it sounds painful and I'd like to keep my body intact. I'd be upset at all of the urinary problems and inability to have sex or reproduce, but I do not think I would have lost a part of my "manhood" from that kind of act.

 

[yeoz]

Found an article with a LOT MORE DETAILS.

Nashua School District applauded for accommodating transgender third-grader
By MARYALICE GILL
Staff Writer

After facing complaints that a transgender student was being discriminated against, the Nashua School District has agreed to let the student enroll at a new elementary school and be addressed as a female by school staff.
Janson Wu, a staff attorney with Gay & Lesbian Advocates & Defenders, praised the Nashua School District for its efforts to accommodate the needs of the transgender third-grader.
“I applaud the Nashua School District’s efforts to ensure that all students, including transgender students, are able to go to school safely and receive a good education,” Wu said.
The School District reached the settlement agreement with the family in May after addressing complaints from earlier in the school year.
“The issues that public schools must often address mirror the broader issues in our society,” Superintendent Mark Conrad said in an email to The Telegraph, “and to the extent these issues reflect differing or even divisive opinions in the general community, we must find ways to address those issues to balance competing viewpoints while assuring we are protecting the rights of all children and ensuring their success.”
The Nashua family participated in a series of interviews with The Telegraph, but ultimately asked to remain anonymous to protect the child’s right to privacy.
Her story started to attract attention when GLAD featured her family in “We Are New Hampshire,” a book that highlights transgender individuals living in the state. The story has since been taken down from the online version of the publication.

Accepting change
What would you do if your son told you he was your daughter?
That happened for this mother over the district’s winter break last year. When the child returned to second grade that January dressed as a girl, using a female name, she was initially accepted by her teacher and classmates and was allowed to use the same restrooms as the other girls in class, her mother said.
Her daughter was happier and better behaved than she ever had been as her son.
But when a classmate’s parent complained about the girl using female restrooms and staff continued addressing her as male, her daughter’s mood darkened and behavioral issues increased, her mother said.
The child was ultimately separated from her classmates, seated in a single desk in a room of shared tables and was no longer allowed to use the girls restroom, her mother said.
Eventually, her mother removed her from school, and she received outside tutorial services from the district for the remainder of the 2011-12 school year.
This fall, however, she is back in class at a new elementary school, according to an agreement reached between the district and the mother.
“It’s our policy not to discriminate against any student, and that would include transgender students,” Conrad said.
According to the agreement, provided by the family, the student will be treated “the same as all female students in every aspect.”
The School District agreed to identify her by female name in educational records and to grant her access to the restrooms used by her female classmates.
She also is permitted to wear the clothing that female students wear and is granted the use of female pronouns by school personnel.
According to the settlement, the student’s transgender status is confidential medical information, and related information can only be shared with “appropriate and necessary” staff, and not other students or their families unless authorized by the girl’s mother in writing.
Information about a student, including his or her transgender status, is confidential, said Wu, who represented the family in the settlement.
“Particularly for students who do have a medical diagnosis related to their transgender status, that is confidential medical information, and whether or not a student decides to come out as transgender is a personal decision,” Wu said. “It’s a difficult decision, and it’s one that has to be made on a case-by-case basis.”
The district doesn’t comment on the individual circumstances of a student.

The right to remain silent
Transgender students typically don’t require educational accommodations because of their transgender status, Conrad said.
“The principal accommodation has been in providing a student with the option to use an individual unisex bathroom,” he said.
During his three years as Nashua’s superintendent, Conrad said the district has changed students’ school assignments under state statutes and Board of Education policies a few times, but not for discrimination-related concerns.
When the district becomes aware it has a transgender student in the school community, it works with the student, parents and staff – usually the teacher, principal, school psychologist and guidance counselor – to assess that student’s needs, Conrad said in an email.
Only a handful of students in the School District are transgender, Conrad said.
“The desires and needs of each student will be different, and the plan for support will therefore be specific to that individual student,” Conrad said.
For instance, a few years ago, a high school-age transgender student requested to share her story with a health class at Nashua High South, and the school administration and health teacher allowed it, Conrad said.
There is no “formal place” in the district’s health curriculum to address questions relating to gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender individuals, Conrad said. But high school health units on sexual harassment “often leads to discussions on accepting differences in people,” he said.
As members of the transgender community identify themselves at increasingly younger ages, Wu said, transgender youths are often the first to come out in their district, triggering the need for education and some struggle for schools to reach a full understanding of who they are.
“It can be very challenging to be the first youth in a school to be out and having to blaze that path,” Wu said. “The epidemic of school bullying is incredibly troubling right now, and we know LGBT and transgender youth are disproportionately the targets.”
But for families and schools that support a transgender child, that transition can present positive opportunities, Wu said.

Live free
New Hampshire is the only state in New England that doesn’t have explicit laws that protect transgender individuals, Wu said.
“That is certainly something we would like to see fixed,” he said.
State and federal laws protect a student’s access to a safe and appropriate education, Wu said, which protects students – including transgender and gender-variant youths – across the board.
Still, codifying explicit protections for New Hampshire’s transgender population is “incredibly important,” Wu said.
“Only those explicit protections will provide the type of guidance that employers and businesses and schools are looking for as more and more transgender individuals are coming out,” Wu said.
The Nashua School District has a student and staff policy of not discriminating against any student, including those of the transgender or gender-variant population.
Staff members are oriented on that policy every two years, Conrad said, and the district hasn’t seen the need to develop policies that speak specifically to transgender concerns yet.
“I think that would depend on whether we see that need over time,” Conrad said. “Right now, it’s a relatively rare occurrence, and we’ve been able to work through concerns that arise. I think many of the protections are already in place.”
Public schools, by nature, have students who require individual accommodations or plans based on learning needs, health or mental concerns, family circumstances or other transitions in a student’s life, Conrad said.
Transgender students in school are now one of those situations.
However, it’s usually the adults who have the greatest difficulty adjusting.
“In the few instances in which transgender students have been members of our school communities, we have found parents or staff have more concerns than most of our students,” Conrad said.

The fucking money shot:

When the district becomes aware it has a transgender student in the school community, it works with the student, parents and staff – usually the teacher, principal, school psychologist and guidance counselor – to assess that student’s needs, Conrad said in an email.

She's seen an actual frigging psychologist. She's not just a kid acting out or pretending. This is real, folks. Get used to it.

 

[beje]

I can only analyze how I grew up, but I can't say I have any sort of identifying attachment to my penis. If I lost my penis, I'd be bummed due to no longer being able to have sex, but I wouldn't feel as if my gender or sexual identity had been changed or ruined. I believe if I grew up with the same life I did without a penis, I'd still feel like a man. I just view the penis as a sexual organ. A pleasurable tool for reproduction. That's why whenever I hear about transgendered people feeling the need to have these operations to feel more complete, I find it very odd. I wonder if others share my views about their own sexual organs.

Well, according to the transgender people I know in real life, it's not so much about your genitalia (primary sexual characteristics) than your whole appearance like breasts and a curvy figure (girls) or body hair and a muscular figure (boys) which are the secondary sexual characteristics, this is, what you see at a first glance and that is influenced by (you guessed right) hormones. In fact, there are some transgender people that couldn't care less about the "plumbing" and never get that part done because the remaining 95% of their body is according to their brain and that feels good enough for them.

 

[Gaborn]

Oh man, I'm showing my age. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_and_Lorena_Bobbitt

That's no fun. THIS is fun.

 

[Devolution]

I actually disagree. I think a psychologist, or better yet a neuroscientist is more qualified to answer the question as to why trans individuals exist.

I disagree. A psychologist could tell you why they exist in scientific terms but no one can actually relay the experience better than someone who's gone through it.

 

[-COOLIO-]

She's seen an actual frigging psychologist. She's not just a kid acting out or pretending. This is real, folks. Get used to it.

wow, chiiilll. i dont think anybody is picking sides here.

 

[CornBurrito]

I disagree. A psychologist could tell you why they exist in scientific terms but no one can actually relay the experience better than someone who's gone through it.

I've met gay individuals who felt they were gay because they didn't have a father figure to teach them how to be a straight alpha bromale.

That's scientifically bullshit.

 

[BadAss2961]

Sorry, this doesn't really hold up or even have any relevance.

You said that not all transgender people have distinct differences in their brains making them what they are. This is not a question of assumptions, but a question of fact.

Are you acknowledging, then, that you simply made it up?

It's really just common sense. You really believe that all trans people have differences in their brain? Show me this evidence.

What about those who've undergone the change that spent their whole lives as men without anyone realizing they were different? We had a thread recently where a man with a wife and two kids came out and decided to go trans in the middle of his life. With no other information, people defended him and immediately treated him as if he was no different than a cis female.

 

[yeoz]

I disagree. A psychologist could tell you why they exist in scientific terms but no one can actually relay the experience better than someone who's gone through it.

From all the research that I've read about, the end result is, the scientific community at large simply doesn't know why.
There are a lot of theories, but, there's no definitive answer as to why people are trans.

 

[Devolution]

I've met gay individuals who felt they were gay because they didn't have a father figure to teach them how to be a straight alpha bromale.

That's scientifically bullshit.

What point do you think you're making with this statement? That "fake" transgenders won't give you a proper explanation of what they went through?

From all the research that I've read about, the end result is, the scientific community at large simply doesn't know why.
There are a lot of theories, but, there's no definitive answer as to why people are trans.

So it really is up to transgenders to explain their experiences and for us to listen. As I thought.

 

[CornBurrito]

It's really just common sense.

Oh good. We are done here. You obviously aren't willing to make an intellectual argument.

What point do you think you're making with this statement? That "fake" transgenders won't give you a proper explanation of what they went through?

That a developmental neuroscientist is better equipped to explain why someone someone is trans or cis than a regular trans/cis person.

I never said anything about "fake" transgenders. I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying anyone is a fake.

 

[Emitan]

It's really just common sense

So you're making it up?

 

[Devolution]

That a developmental neuroscientist is better equipped to explain why someone someone is trans or cis than a regular trans/cis person.

Yeoz just said different. I'll refer to that poster about it.

 

[CornBurrito]

Yeoz just said different. I'll refer to that poster about it.

Well if the scientific community isn't set on any explanation, that doesn't mean I'll defer to an individual.

From a personal feelings perspective, they are more qualified. Just not from a scientific perspective.

I'm not going to accept something like (a made up example) "I'm trans because my daddy left me when I was young and I was surrounded by only my mom and 3 sisters" as a valid scientific explanation for transgenderism unless that's shown under a controlled study to actually be a cause.

 

[Mush]

How old is a third grader?

 

[Earthstrike]

It's really just common sense. You really believe that all trans people have differences in their brain? Show me this evidence.

What about those who've undergone the change that spent their whole lives as men without anyone realizing they were different? We had a thread recently where a man with a wife and two kids came out and decided to go trans in the middle of his life. With no other information, people defended him and immediately treated him as if he was no different than a cis female.

What does other people believing they are different have to do with anything? Human beings come in all shapes and sizes. If I meet a tomboy, I'm not gonna say "man, thats probably a transgendered person". I will likely perceive that person as female. Do you believe gay men are transgendered. Did you know that most drag queens are actually cisgendered males?

 

[Devolution]

Well if the scientific community isn't set on any explanation, that doesn't mean I'll defer to an individual.

From a personal feelings perspective, they are more qualified. Just not from a scientific perspective.

I'm not going to accept something like (a made up example) "I'm trans because my daddy left me when I was young and I was surrounded by only my mom and 3 sisters" as a valid scientific explanation for transgenderism unless that's shown under a controlled study to actually be a cause.

They're asking how those individuals know, which requires the input of said individuals.

 

[BadAss2961]

Oh good. We are done here. You obviously aren't willing to make an intellectual argument.

Thank you for playing.

 

[CornBurrito]

Thank you for playing.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6552/abs/378068a0.html

Here's some evidence suggesting a difference.

Claiming that all brain regions are the same in every individual is a positive claim. You need to supply evidence too. "Its common sense" is not legitimate evidence. It is begging the question.

 

[BadAss2961]

What does other people believing they are different have to do with anything? Human beings come in all shapes and sizes. If I meet a tomboy, I'm not gonna say "man, thats probably a transgendered person". I will likely perceive that person as female. Do you believe gay men are transgendered. Did you know that most drag queens are actually cisgendered males?

I don't know how to answer this, because it's something that i'd actually ask people in this thread.

I don't disagree with anything you just said.

 

[yeoz]

So it really is up to transgenders to explain their experiences and for us to listen. As I thought.

All I can really speak to is my personal experience. I've never identified as the gender I was assigned at birth. It never ever felt right to me. Puberty was absolute hell for me. My body never felt right, my genitals certainly didn't make any sense to me. That said, I don't really know what it means to be the other gender either. I just know that I'm not this one gender, and with the conventional gender binary as we have it, the other gender is the only real option at the moment. Maybe in the future, I'll end up as agender, or bigender, or just genderfluid. But, going on hormone replacement therapy has simply changed things so much for me for the better, mentally and emotionally, that I think I'm going in the right direction.

That a developmental neuroscientist is better equipped to explain why someone someone is trans or cis than a regular trans/cis person.

They simply don't know. We don't even really know right now why gay people are gay right?
Retracted while I go do some research.

 

[IHaveCandy]

I'm going to go ahead and open this can of worms. How do you feel about pedophilia being treated as a medical issue? As far as I can tell, the media and general population treats a pedophile as somebody that we'd all prefer just be dead. Now I can understand that viewpoint when talking about a pedophile who has actually harmed children. I don't think any amount of innate desires should override your responsibility to protect and respect children. However, I don't think in this world today that a pedophile that has done no harm to children and honestly views his condition as a curse could get the kind of understanding that they deserve. I think among a majority group of the population, a gay man can come out to his friends and get the kind of support they should get. I think if a pedophile were to come out to his friends and try to explain that they want to do everything they can to get rid of those kinds of feelings and such would be met with universal rejection and revulsion. Whenever I bring up this point to my friends that are for the most part in favor of sexual equality, they have this attitude that pedophilia is just some sort of sick perversion that bad people are into because they just enjoy the power of it and harming kids. That is certainly true for some, but I think there are a real group of people that feel like they are living with a born curse and deserve to be treated differently.

 

[Emitan]

Well if the scientific community isn't set on any explanation, that doesn't mean I'll defer to an individual.

From a personal feelings perspective, they are more qualified. Just not from a scientific perspective.

I'm not going to accept something like (a made up example) "I'm trans because my daddy left me when I was young and I was surrounded by only my mom and 3 sisters" as a valid scientific explanation for transgenderism unless that's shown under a controlled study to actually be a cause.

They're asking how those individuals know, which requires the input of said individuals.

There's some miscommunication here from both of you. You're basically coming at this from two different sides.

Devo: You are talking about someone knowing that they are transgender.

CornBurrito: You are talking about the medical reasons that cause someone to be transgender.

 

[CornBurrito]

They simply don't know. We don't even really know right now why gay people are gay right?

I thought the general consensus is prenatal hormones. And contrary to what people believed, it is actually excess testosterone which has a feminizing effect on the male brain when present in excess prenatally.

 

[Gaborn]

I thought the general consensus is prenatal hormones. And contrary to what people believed, it is actually excess testosterone which has a feminizing effect on the male brain when present in excess prenatally.

Basically yes.

Also, your name change is jarring.