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[Heyt]

Video is ending now. First one was terrible biased crap. This one is still propaganda, but it's better in some ways.

At least Anita adresses some of the better reasonable responses to her first video, even if she uses her flawed logic.

I have the impression that the video took so long to make because she wanted to mention so many games that nobody would want to take the time to rip appart each example and argument as they did with her previous video. I really want to think she's wrong.

At least the topic is more interesting and she gets some points across. Also, admits that there is no macho conspiracy in the videogames industry. That really took me off guard. I would never thought she would back down at all on anything her first video (or any of her videos for that matter) implied.

Also, she spoiled Pandora's Tower and Dishonored for me. Less trigger warnings for violence and more for fucking spoilers, will ya!?

 

[DragonSworne]

Finished watching.

Wow, what took so long? This video was so disappointing.

She made a 25 minutes video filled with spoilers and no analysis. She added nothing to the first video.


At this point, she is becoming a feminist trope.

 

[Rebochan]

It doesn't have to be humorous. That's actually the plot of The 3rd Birthday.

and Kill Bill.

They're still extremely uncommon and in a military shooter like the character was part of, non-existant.

There's actually a ton of female revenge stories out there. Have you ever seen the Lifetime Channel?

So we went straight from million-dollar AAA titles and Hollywood blockbusters to niche made-for-cable dramas?

You can find a niche audience for anything.

 

[Shinta]

TRIGGER WARNING: Spoils Dishonored and Pandora's Tower.

They're still extremely uncommon and in a military shooter like the character was part of, non-existant.



So we went straight from million-dollar AAA titles and Hollywood blockbusters to niche made-for-cable dramas?

You can find a niche audience for anything.

Like Dragon's Crown, and half the games she listed? Lifetime Channel probably has way more viewers than many of the games she lists.

 

[Riposte]

D-did Dishonored just get spoiled for me?

Yes and no. The death, no. The implications, kind of yes. This video is fucking full of spoilers. Like, it functions more as a collection of spoilers than a proper statement on female characters.

Both huge spoilers for Darkness and Darkness II.

 

[MormaPope]

Her whole thing with the "euthanized damsel" isn't just a female exclusive thing. Look at Gears of War 3 when

Spoiler

Marcus' Dad died. THAT is a euthanized damsel in her view but no, only Maria is.

All she does is name a whole bunch of shit then labels it sexist then moves onto the next.

I can't help but feel this. Maximo being part of the problem with female portrayal in games? It's a game based on Ghouls and Goblins/whatever, which in turn is about the classic hero overcoming hell to save the princess.

It's as if she doesn't apply context to why something is how it is, no story context, no game design context, if a female is a victim in any circumstance, that's sexist.

 

[IHaveCandy]

She can keep giving examples day and night, it doesn't really matter if that is all her argument is. Listing 10 games an example doesn't matter in a medium that has tens of thousands of video games.

 

[KTallguy]

Is called Execution. Thats the whole reason of 'tropes'.

Execution matters a lot. Tropes are tools. There's no denying that. But it's important to step back and examine why these tropes exist. The works with these tropes still have inherent value, and I enjoy a lot of them. But it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be examined.

 

[Inanna]

How can she be so slow making these mediocre videos with all the money she got? the last time a girl with better arguments and argueably better production values made a video repsonse in 2 days

err that response video was horrible, I don't get how people are praising that woman.

 

[Risette]

I can't help but feel this. Maximo being part of the problem with female portrayal in games? It's a game based on Ghouls and Goblins/whatever, which in turn is about the classic hero overcoming hell to save the princess.

It's as if she doesn't apply context to why something is how it is, no story context, no game design context, if a female is a victim in any circumstance, that's sexist.

I think there's a good case for Ico also being a child's fairy tale-esque story in a similar vein.

 

[Coffee Dog]

hahahaha max payne 3 is about fucking human trafficking. Are you shitting me?

I knew better than to give money to someone who was clearly unqualified to tackle this issue. All this does is make feminism look worse and defeats it's purpose of education.

 

[Shai-Tan]

The Bionic Commando example is hilarious. His arm is made from his wife? I vaguely recall idle thumbs talking about that ages ago and it sounded like everything else about the game was terrible (except for the swinging around like spider man)

 

[Lusankya]

D-did Dishonored just get spoiled for me?

I don't think so, no.

 

[Hero]

Not done with Pandora's Tower yet or some of the other games she talks about so I unfortunately can't watch the entire video to really discuss it.

What a dumb way to approach a video.

 

[Surface of Me]

No, and that's kind of the point of her entire video series. The stories are the same today.

Yeah, but for a lot of games the story is backseated greatly to the gameplay. They simply need something to set up the action, and that's generally easy to do with "The princess has been kidnapped!". Stories don't matter that much in the majority of video games, but this series is pretending they do.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Yes and no. The death, no. The implications, kind of yes.

Is still a big spoiler, specially because is specially noted in the Low Chaos route.

 

[RobotRocker]

I don't know how she managed to be completely patronising to feminists and anyone interested in a proper academic based discussion buy by golly she did it.

At least its going to make a lot of nerds angry just by the subject matter. But still would have been nice to have something to discuss rather than a fat load of nothing.

 

[Camp Lo]

I think I got spoiled on a lot of games.

 

[DragonSworne]

Not done with Pandora's Tower yet or some of the other games she talks about so I unfortunately can't watch the entire video to really discuss it.

What a dumb way to approach a video.

Don't worry about skipping the games she shows.

99% of them are just spoilers with no analysis. She just basically says "this is sexist" and moves on.

 

[Dellrizla]

I think she raised some quite valid points, however I did not like her eyebrows.

 

[Veelk]

To the people defending Jenny from Darkness:

I checked her wiki page and frankly there isn't much about her (Specifically, up until she was killed, not in Darkness 2 and afterwards). She was Jackies friend and defended him from some bullies and later realized that she was in love with him, from what it says. It doesn't say much about her likes and interest, what her life was, why she was even in love with him, much about her life in general.

And then she was killed, not for anything SHE did, but because she was associated with Jackie.

It doesn't seem to me that Anita is wrong in describing Jenny as "Jackie's" for the purpose of the narrative, since outside the relationship with him, whatever she did or who she was was irrelevant.

 

[Takuya]

When she talked about Ico:

to trigger an emotional response in male players

You serious? That's sexist if anything.

 

[HawthorneKitty]

Yessssssssss Pandora's Tower got a nice bit of footage... I don't know if it's a good thing.
I like Anita though and her explanations have been enlightening; I love watching her.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Execution matters a lot. Tropes are tools. There's no denying that. But it's important to step back and examine why these tropes exist. The works with these tropes still have inherent value, and I enjoy a lot of them. But it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be examined.

But that doesn't mean that they should be descontextualized just because, specially in Dishonored were the figure has more connotations in the grand narrative than just Sacrificial Lamb.

 

[Gbraga]

I actually liked both videos, but if those examples are really just the tip of the iceberg, why the hell spoil recent games? If you have tons of examples, at least pick the ones that are less likely to ruin people's experience with a game

At least I want to play Dishonored just to try cool shit with the powers, if I cared about the story I'd be really pissed.

 

[Whompa]

fucking spoilers...omg...

 

[KTallguy]

Yeah, but for a lot of games the story is backseated greatly to the gameplay. They simply need something to set up the action, and that's generally easy to do with "The princess has been kidnapped!". Stories don't matter that much in the majority of video games, but this series is pretending they do.

A lot of games need context to stay interesting, and that's why most AAA games have some sort of story mode, and characters, and cutscenes. That transition happened way back in the SNES/Megadrive -> Playstation/Saturn/N64 era, but has been there ever since the beginning.

And ICO is a great game, but really it's Sleeping Beauty with the Beauty walking around with you, wicked witch and all. You don't understand each other's language, so she doesn't really have the power to speak. She gets carried away by the shadow beings and you have to rescue her, etc. Again, it's not inherently bad, but you have to look at it for what it is.

 

[PhantomOfTheKnight]

*watches episode*

...what, no Tomb Raider?

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Great video. I feel a bit a sick

 

[Riposte]

To the people defending Jenny from Darkness:

I checked her wiki page and frankly there isn't much about her (Specifically, up until she was killed, not in Darkness 2 and afterwards). She was Jackies friend and defended him from some bullies and later realized that she was in love with him, from what it says. It doesn't say much about her likes and interest, what her life was, why she was even in love with him, much about her life in general.

And then she was killed, not for anything SHE did, but because she was associated with Jackie.

It doesn't seem to me that Anita is wrong in describing Jenny as "Jackie's" for the purpose of the narrative, since outside the relationship with him, whatever she did or who she was was irrelevant.

How does this not apply to every character who is not Jackie?

 

[Pau]

I don't know how she managed to be completely patronising to feminists and anyone interested in a proper academic based discussion buy by golly she did it.

At least its going to make a lot of nerds angry just by the subject matter. But still would have been nice to have something to discuss rather than a fat load of nothing.

Her audience does not seem to be people interested in a proper academic discussion, but rather people who are just being introduced to these concepts.

I would have hoped that by now someone would have taken advantage of the lack of more in depth discussions and capitalized on the subject being "in" at the moment, but I haven't seen anyone do that. (And if anyone has links or suggestions, that would be greatly appreciated!)

I've thought about doing that myself, but it takes me ages to beat any game, and even longer to write something presentable.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Why are ratings disabled for this video?

 

[K.Sabot]

Unfortunately I can't watch this because she apparently spoils a bunch of games I haven't played.

Thanks for warning me GAF, sorry for your loss.

 

[Kusagari]

LOL

Did she really just include a clip from Child of Eden?

 

[Makai]

I don't get this woman. So basically, she wants every girl character ever to use a bazooka and kick everyone's ass despite of the narrative?

I must admit I have not watched her videos yet but I am confident that you are missing the point. Tropes that appear in media effect our understanding of gender/race/class/etc and revealing how different groups are portrayed in media is a good first step with the ultimate goal of eroding arbitrary differences of treatment between groups in society.

There could easily be an even longer video series called Tropes vs. Men about the expectations of manliness that are perpetuated by video games. Giving the same expectations to women is not helping. Bayonetta is not the answer.

 

[PdotMichael]

I can kind of see why people are bothered by Ico's presence, but c'mon guys, I'm pretty sure that the creator is a confirmed sexist.

He is?

 

[A Link to the Past]

That's a little bit ad hominem.

Anyway, ICO spoilers,

Spoiler

the big bad is a woman who, whilst evil, isn't overtly sexualised, whilst feminine, and powerful.

Not really. ICO was about leading a defenseless female, SotC had a male composer because Ueda felt that one was needed to appeal to men (thanks to Aeana for pointing that out), and The Last Guardian switched protagonist gender because he didn't find a physically strong female character believable, as well as the implication that he felt a female character needed to wear a skirt (at least in his game).

 

[APZonerunner]

Like the first video, I feel this is a good cause and interesting points, but I don't see where all that money went. And yes, I know she got a lot more than she asked for, but I'd still expect that to show in the videos - in presentation, in perhaps flying out to some developers to interview some on the attitudes depicted in their games -- basically, for the money that was exchanged I'd hope it'd be a lot more comprehensive. It makes interesting points, though.

 

[Inanna]

that Ico part...

It was true though, the girl is bigger than the boy, and all the boy does is hit enemies with a stick. Can the girl not use the stick herself? :s

 

[Byronic Hero]

Yes and no. The death, no. The implications, kind of yes. This video is fucking full of spoilers.

I don't think so, no.

Okay, cool.

I can't wait for the responses for this video.

 

[pakkit]

I'm not liking this analysis as much as the first. Despite the introductory disclaimer that the analysis is divorced from an opinion on the game, the use of terms such as "insidious" or even "patriarchal imbalance of power in love" kind of take me out of the conversation. The problem with labeling an imbalance of power being instrumental to love as "patriarchal" is that it implies that the "matriarchal" solution is equilibrium. There is no evidence that that is the case, and I see men and women fall in love with people that they want to change or to care for. Caregiving being a part of love has little to do with genderism and absolutely nothing to do with patriarchy - wasn't this the entire crux of the "gays can't raise children" argument? Caregivers and caretakers exist in all realms - and in that sense it does make sense given the male-dominant industry that a lot of the tropes rely on women being in threat as a hook for men to care. It's a cheap, uninteresting hook, but as Anita pointed out with Psychonauts, as long as good writing is there it doesn't matter what trope is used. As with the previous episode, the biggest point made here is that games need to branch out. This is a billion dollar industry with children and adults trying out new games at an absurd pace, so a wider vision for games would be great. This is also why I'm excited for the consoles that have embraced the indie development scene. These types of experiences are usually the forefront for thought-provoking gameplay, and inoffensive stories.

 

[Dahbomb]

There should be a big spoiler message in the thread title. I think I got spoiled on at least a dozen games in that video.

Jett would be furious right now.

 

[Veelk]

How doesn't this apply to every character who is not Jackie?

I don't know, I never played, but that's not a defense, since it doesn't have to be that way. They can give other characters a history, their own personal motivation for doing things, etc that is totally unrelated to the main character and his place in the story.

 

[Darklord]

To the people defending Jenny from Darkness:

I checked her wiki page and frankly there isn't much about her (Specifically, up until she was killed, not in Darkness 2 and afterwards). She was Jackies friend and defended him from some bullies and later realized that she was in love with him, from what it says. It doesn't say much about her likes and interest, what her life was, why she was even in love with him, much about her life in general.

And then she was killed, not for anything SHE did, but because she was associated with Jackie.

It doesn't seem to me that Anita is wrong in describing Jenny as "Jackie's" for the purpose of the narrative, since outside the relationship with him, whatever she did or who she was was irrelevant.

What exactly is wrong with two people in love thinking they "belong" to each other? How many people both say "That's my girl" or a girl might say "See that guy at the bar? Yep, that my man". It's common for both genders and nothing about it is sexist. I think my girlfriend is mine and she thinks I'm hers.

 

[CaptainSchwann]

To the people defending Jenny from Darkness:

I checked her wiki page and frankly there isn't much about her (Specifically, up until she was killed, not in Darkness 2 and afterwards). She was Jackies friend and defended him from some bullies and later realized that she was in love with him, from what it says. It doesn't say much about her likes and interest, what her life was, why she was even in love with him, much about her life in general.

And then she was killed, not for anything SHE did, but because she was associated with Jackie.

It doesn't seem to me that Anita is wrong in describing Jenny as "Jackie's" for the purpose of the narrative, since outside the relationship with him, whatever she did or who she was was irrelevant.

You do realize the games were based (loosely) off a comic series right? It's hard to cover that much material with the VERY limited budged the studio got for the games.

 

[IHaveCandy]

She isn't really explaining why the violence is bad because it is women. Violence is violence to me. It doesn't suddenly have a different meaning to me just because a woman is being the victim.

 

[MormaPope]

I think there's a good case for Ico also being a child's fairy tale-esque story in a similar vein.

I'd definitely say it is.

She just said another thing which sorta left me in awe.

Depictions of female vulnerability are used an an easy way of writers to trigger an emotional reaction in male players.

Nope. Character vulnerability, male, female, whatever, is used as a way to trigger a emotional reaction. People have cried over what happens to male characters, people have cried over what happens to female characters, I almost cried due to what happened to a shadow boy and a robot in Nier.

Mass Effect 3 tried to use vent kid/space kid to get the player emotional, and it failed miserably.

 

[Delusibeta]

Pandora's Tower can probably be sufficiently covered by reading the back of the box, unless there's a plot twist at the end of the game I'm not aware of [/have not played the game].

 

[LordJim]

It's a bit sad that copypasting from the appropriate TvTropes section and adding a disclaimer 'The things you read may be interpreted as sexist by some people, especially out of context' is just as informative as the 2 videos she has put out.

Won't have to put up with her slow pace or fake laughs either

 

[akidnamededdy]

Why are ratings disabled for this video?

To stifle the voice of the male-o-centric maleocracy.

Aren't ratings and comments disabled for all her videos?