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[Milchjon]

no one cares. kids a punk and needs jailtime. I wouldn't ask for murder charges, but fuck dude. This isn't a kick in the shins or a punch in the shoulder. He intended to do this person harm, and killed him. Punishment is warranted. 7+ years in prison seems fair.

This isn't someone robbing a liquor store because he's an addict or hungry and penniless. This was plain maliciousness. Of course he can be rehabbed, but he needs to feel the weight of his actions too.

Rehabilitation can include ( a lot of) prison time. It's the false dichotomy of life without parole vs. let him run free (I don't think this has been argued though, only implied by people who think he deserves life or worse) that's bugging me.

There are a lot of possible years between nothing and life.

Today you learn that GAF isn't a single-minded entity.

Of course. It's a trend though that has been visible in several threads.

 

[Messypandas]

Give him a suspended sentence, he obviously had no intention of killing the guy. It was a tragic outcome to a momentary lapse of judgement. Sending him to prison serves absolutely no purpose and I'm sure his job prospects are already fucked.

 

[Sorian]

Tip to amateur lawyer GAF, you can, in fact be charged with 2nd degree murder for punching someone who later dies.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/19636548/murder-charges-in-deadly-punch-of-student-in-st-cloud

You can be charged larceny too. Assuming the jury listens to the judge's explanation of the individual charges, they would throw out a second degree murder charge in both the case you linked and this one.

 

[syllogism]

Any kind of physical contact can potentially kill. At what probability should we draw the line for manslaughter?

 

[MThanded]

Tip to amateur lawyer GAF, you can, in fact be charged with 2nd degree murder for punching someone who later dies.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/19636548/murder-charges-in-deadly-punch-of-student-in-st-cloud

You could be charged with a lot of different things.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

Absolutely horrible. I read an article on this but he was just in a coma...I can't believe he died from it. His daughters said that there is a lot of abuse that goes towards the refs, one ref had his leg broken and I believe this same ref had his ribs broken. Fucking gross.

 

[Ducarmel]

Tip to amateur lawyer GAF, you can, in fact be charged with 2nd degree murder for punching someone who later dies.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/19636548/murder-charges-in-deadly-punch-of-student-in-st-cloud

You failed to mention the prosecutors also charged him with manslaughter and assault, most likely to cover all corners if they don't meet the requirements for 2nd degree murder. But I have to see their states definition for murder it could be different from most states.

 

[Tesseract]

an acceptable momentary lapse of judgment is verbal harassment, not battery. make an example out of this turd muffin.

 

[Smithy C]

Soccer is a gentleman's sport played by thugs.
Rugby is a thug's sport played by gentlemen.

I heard a different version of that saying which far more accurate.

Soccer is a gentleman's sport played by thugs.
Rugby is a thug's sport played by posh people that shit in pint glasses in student pubs.

 

[Deified Data]

Damn, terrible way to go.

And I imagine that the kid feels terrible, too.

This is actually a reason that I'm afraid to punch anyone. Kid should have thought his actions through.

Yep. Tough to imagine you could end someone's life and effectively ruin your own in a kid's soccer league. Glad he's getting what he deserves.

 

[Violet_0]

There have been similar cases in Europe recently. They're having trouble finding referees for non-professional soccer games in Germany because of the escalating violence

 

[Sorian]

Geez, I feel like so many people in here are acting like saints who have never lost their temper when I highly doubt that is true. I don't condone violence but we are human. These things happen, its a shame someone died and there should be punishment, of course, but all of these "lololol make an example out of this little shit! jail forever!" need to chill out. I can only hope for you that you never find yourself in a similar situation because it can happen to anyone.

 

[Lord Ghirahim]

2011 post rehashing.

You'd be surprised at how many people fail to understand that a single punch can kill. Real life isn't DBZ.

 

[metalslimer]

an acceptable momentary lapse of judgment is verbal harassment, not battery. make an example out of this turd muffin.

By sending him to jail for 20 years while the taxpayer has to pay for it? What a waste.

 

[Yaboosh]

Geez, I feel like so many people in here are acting like saints who have never lost their temper when I highly doubt that is true. I don't condone violence but we are human. These things happen, its a shame someone died and there should be punishment, of course, but all of these "lololol make an example out of this little shit! jail forever!" need to chill out. I can only hope for you that you never find yourself in a similar situation because it can happen to anyone.

I have never punched someone out of anger. He is a little shit because he killed someone over a yellow card.

 

[entremet]

Regardless of the legal ramification, he will be live with that guilt for the rest of life.

 

[Milchjon]

There have been similar cases in Europe recently. They're having trouble finding referees for non-professional soccer games in Germany because of the escalating violence

It's crazy how soccer seems to attract the worst kind of people. So many violent incidents all over Europe and probably the world.

 

[Vyer]

Geez, I feel like so many people in here are acting like saints who have never lost their temper when I highly doubt that is true. I don't condone violence but we are human. These things happen, its a shame someone died and there should be punishment, of course, but all of these "lololol make an example out of this little shit! jail forever!" need to chill out. I can only hope for you that you never find yourself in a similar situation because it can happen to anyone.

I agree with your general sentiment, but I would say that assaulting a referee because you got called for a foul isn't exactly on the normal/'happen to anyone' scale either.

 

[akira28]

By sending him to jail for 20 years while the taxpayer has to pay for it? What a waste.

20 years in jail for this asshole, and crack down on referee attacks, and they stop? Worth it. Really, prisoner care is a drop in the bucket when you consider all the money available. Bad resource management doesn't mean we don't have the resources.

Put him in and let the pot grower out.

 

[Messypandas]

By sending him to jail for 20 years while the taxpayer has to pay for it? What a waste.

I'm sure we'll feel safer with this scumbag of the streets and the prime years of his life gone. If he shows remorse - and I sincerely hope he does - have him do something constructive like refereeing for football teams pro bono.

 

[Wiktor]

Give him a suspended sentence, he obviously had no intention of killing the guy. .

But he obviously had every intention of seriously hurting the guy. So he should serve jail time for this.+

 

[djplaeskool]

2011 post rehashing.

Very true.
As annoying that it might be that your car will beep incessantly at you for going more than 5 MPH without a seatbelt, those 5 MPH can kill you. For every steel-beam-embedded-in-skull survivor, there are multiple people severely injured or killed from seemingly small impacts and falls.

 

[heliosRAzi]

Today you learn that GAF isn't a single-minded entity.

Today we learn that you are an idiot. Seriously, life without parole?

 

[Space Avocat]

Did it actually say anything about charging him with manslaughter? Just glanced at the Utah Criminal Code and im guessing he'll get charged with this:

76-5-209. Homicide by assault -- Penalty.
(1) A person commits homicide by assault if, under circumstances not amounting to aggravated murder, murder, or manslaughter, a person causes the death of another while intentionally or knowingly attempting, with unlawful force or violence, to do bodily injury to another.
(2) Homicide by assault is a third degree felony.

Manslaughter is a second degree felony in Utah, so this is even less severe.

http://le.utah.gov/code/TITLE76/htm/76_05_020900.htm

 

[metalslimer]

I'm sure we'll feel safer with this scumbag of the streets and the prime years of his life gone. If he shows remorse - and I sincerely hope he does - have him do something constructive like referring for football teams pro bono.

I would have to know a lot more about his life to feel safer about him being off the streets.

But he obviously had every intention of seriously hurting the guy. So he should serve jail time for this.+

Sure it would have been some kind of assault had the guy not died. Where I disagree is people wanting to "make an example" out of a dumb kid whose life is already forever ruined/changed anyway. If anything he should be shamed into going around and telling his story to warn about the consequences of such a thing and sent to jail for 1-2 years because his life is ruined anyway

 

[ComputerMKII]

Today we learn that you are an idiot. Seriously, life without parole?

A punishment which is proportional to the crime. That's fine and fair, in my opinion.

 

[Sorian]

I have never punched someone out of anger. He is a little shit because he killed someone over a yellow card.

Well I'm happy for you so far. Doesn't change the fact that something could happen tomorrow that tips you in the wrong direction. This kid may never have punched anyone before in his life or he could have had a temper threshold of 0. Sometimes, the right set of circumstances mixed with the general attitude of the day can cause a punch to be thrown. It's an emotional reaction and can happen without thinking.

I agree with your general sentiment, but I would say that assaulting a referee because you got called for a foul isn't exactly on the normal/'happen to anyone' scale either.

I never said the thing that could happen to anyone is punching a ref during a soccer game after he gives you a yellow card. I don't even play soccer so I don't think it could happen to me. What could happen to anyone is their temper egtting the best of them over something that is seen as silly later but was important at the time. Such is life and everyone should be more understanding of that.

 

[zoukka]

I would have to know a lot more about his life to feel safer about him being off the streets.

But you're being rational.

A punishment which is proportional to the crime. That's fine and fair, in my opinion.

Now that's more like it. Let your hate give your strength!

 

[syllogism]

20 years in jail for this asshole, and crack down on referee attacks, and they stop? Worth it. Really, prisoner care is a drop in the bucket when you consider all the money available. Bad resource management doesn't mean we don't have the resources.

Put him in and let the pot grower out.

Should people whose acts create the same kind and level of risk be liable for manslaughter when the extremely unlikely scenario occurs? For example, if some kids throw a small rock of a bridge, fatally hitting someone and we can determine the likelihood of death was similar? How about a strong shove? Or is a punch somehow different? How many punches resulting in no or very minor injuries do you think get thrown every day?

 

[Milchjon]

A punishment which is proportional to the crime. That's fine and fair, in my opinion.

Intent matters. It's not like he shot him with a shotgun, there's a certain amount of "accident" in there.

 

[Sorian]

A punishment which is proportional to the crime. That's fine and fair, in my opinion.

If you truly believe that this case calls for a punishment of life without a parole then you are in a word, stupid.

Edit: And yes, I understand that this post is a little direct but I honestly can't think that someone is being serious when they spout of life without parole for this.

 

[SummitAve]

A punishment which is proportional to the crime. That's fine and fair, in my opinion.

Your a few thousand years late Hammurabi.

 

[metalslimer]

By some people's logic here, high school fights would result in kids going to juvenile hall for years.

 

[Yaboosh]

Well I'm happy for you so far. Doesn't change the fact that something could happen tomorrow that tips you in the wrong direction. This kid may never have punched anyone before in his life or he could have had a temper threshold of 0. Sometimes, the right set of circumstances mixed with the general attitude of the day can cause a punch to be thrown. It's an emotional reaction and can happen without thinking.



I never said the thing that could happen to anyone is punching a ref during a soccer game after he gives you a yellow card. I don't even play soccer so I don't think it could happen to me. What could happen to anyone is their temper egtting the best of them over something that is seen as silly later but was important at the time. Such is life and everyone should be more understanding of that.

You are speaking like someone who has a serious anger management problem projecting that on everyone else, assuming it is normal.

If I punched someone and it killed them, I would certainly be deserving of serious punishment. So would you. And so is the kid in the op.

 

[Spat_triate]

So many lives destroyed by a single punch.

RIP to the ref and hard luck to the teen.

 

[zoukka]

By some people's logic here, high school fights would result in kids going to juvenile hall for years.

Something many gaffers would agree I'm afraid.

 

[Outlaw]

Geez, I feel like so many people in here are acting like saints who have never lost their temper when I highly doubt that is true. I don't condone violence but we are human. These things happen, its a shame someone died and there should be punishment, of course, but all of these "lololol make an example out of this little shit! jail forever!" need to chill out. I can only hope for you that you never find yourself in a similar situation because it can happen to anyone.

Yeah, you're right. The person who dies might be someone close to you and then you might reconsider your stance.

 

[EleventhDoctor]

I knew as soon as I read the OP there would be GAF Defense Force for this "poor kid".

 

[Sorian]

You are speaking like someone who has a serious anger management problem projecting that on everyone else, assuming it is normal.

If I punched someone and it killed them, I would certainly be deserving of serious punishment. So would you. And so is the kid in the op.

No, I'm projecting the fact that we are all human beings onto everyone. In the end, we are slaves to our emotion. Some people are better at holding in that emotion than others but that does't mean there can't be a slip. I don't think this kid thinks of violence as a sport, nor do I, and it sounds like neither do you but its not a stretch to think that this could happen to either me or you.

 

[zoukka]

Yeah, you're right. The person who dies might be someone close to you and then you might reconsider your stance.

Yay let's bring personal emotions and feelings into this! That'll surely inject some logic into the discussion.

 

[metalslimer]

I knew as soon as I read the OP there would be GAF Defense Force for this "poor kid".

Don't try that. No one is saying he is completely innocent. There has to be somewhere in between hoping he gets off scot free and throwing him in jail for the rest of his life with no chance of parole something we don't even do for many rapists.

Yay let's bring personal emotions and feelings into this! That'll surely inject some logic into the discussion.

It's the same dumb argument used for people against the death penalty.

 

[Tesseract]

you're a stupid idiot poopy head radical who doesn't know anything!

 

[syllogism]

Yeah, you're right. The person who dies might be someone close to you and then you might reconsider your stance.

The level of danger and moral blameworthiness of the act should determine the punishment rather than the emotional reaction of the people affected by the crime

 

[heliosRAzi]

A punishment which is proportional to the crime. That's fine and fair, in my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong.

 

[Yaboosh]

No, I'm projecting the fact that we are all human beings onto everyone. In the end, we are slaves to our emotion. Some people are better at holding in that emotion than others but that does't mean there can't be a slip. I don't think this kid thinks of violence as a sport, nor do I, and it sounds like neither do you but its not a stretch to think that this could happen to either me or you.

Just because you believe it could happen to anyone doesn't mean this kid doesn't deserve a very serious punishment. Hell, anyone can drive drunk and kill someone. Drunk people tend to have poor decision making skills. Should we be more understanding of them?

 

[akira28]

Should people whose acts create the same kind and level of risk be liable for manslaughter when the extremely unlikely scenario occurs? For example, if some kids throw a small rock of a bridge, fatally hitting someone and we can determine the likelihood of death was similar? How about a strong shove? Or is a punch somehow different? How many punches resulting in no or very minor injuries do you think get thrown every day?

when you commit an action, you take responsibility for it, even for the unlikely consequences. Freak accident and you kill 20 people? You are still responsible. Freak accident and you maim one for life, you are still responsible. Why should he just get off lightly because he decided he wanted to harm someone, and ended up killing them?

Oops, my bad? No.

 

[zoukka]

I knew as soon as I read the OP there would be GAF Defense Force for this "poor kid".

By defence force you mean people who aren't foaming from the mouth and agree on the standard legal procedure?

 

[metalslimer]

Just because you believe it could happen to anyone doesn't mean this kid doesn't deserve a very serious punishment. Hell, anyone can drive drunk and kill someone. Drunk people tend to have poor decision making skills. Should we be more understanding of them?

Drunk drivers don't get 20 years in prison.

 

[Sorian]

Yeah, you're right. The person who dies might be someone close to you and then you might reconsider your stance.

I doubt I would reconsider my stance. I'm not so blind or foolish to think that the law changes because the victim is someone close to me. Intent is a very important part of a crime and I would never request someone be locked away forever because of the heat of a moment punch to someone. It is a shame and I hope this never happens to a loved one of mine but me knowing the victim, personally, doesn't change the law. Especially in a case where the law is extremely logical.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Intent matters. It's not like he shot him with a shotgun, there's a certain amount of "accident" in there.

By throwing that punch, he intended to do something dangerous which could result in death, so the kid is fully responsible for what happened.