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US Soccer Referee Dies After Punch
- Thread starter s7evn
- Start date
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ShinNL
Member
^
I see you're attempting to create perspective but man.... some people just take it too far.
metalslimer
Member
Most of them don't unless it was horrific. It's not considered murder. It's vehicular manslaughter. Many people are out of prison in less than 10 years and driving drunk is honestly much stupider than throwing a punch (something many of us have done before).
He doesn't deserve a very serious punishment, he deserves a moderate one. I believe most state laws would put him at less than 10 years with further reductions for good behavior and the like. Maybe to you that seems serious and we are just arguing for no reason or maybe you actually think he should be in jail for 25 years+, I don't know but what I do know is that this is a manslaughter charge or accidental homicide by assult charge, nothing more.
heliosRAzi
Banned
No one is saying that he isn't responsible. We just think life without parole is a bit excessive. It's a clear case of manslaughter. No DA will try to go for more than that and no judge will go for more than a few years and will probably give the kid probation.
I know, but you are drawing a silly line. I think 15 years in prison is a pretty serious punishment. So is 10. I am not a judge or a prosecutor. I don't know how long this kid will get if convicted. I just know he deserves a serious punishment for killing this man.
the fuck is this? This guy punched and killed the referee of his sports game. That isn't like taking a swing at the guy who shoved you in a bar. This is fucking sociopathic behavior, and your response is "oh, you act like you've never hit anyone before"?
He does need to be made into an example. He doesn't deserve unjust punishment, but he definitely deserves punishment, and fucking therapy. And his example needs to be spread around. I'm completely fine with him being the cautionary tale.
You must be bad at reading then.
Dude Abides
Banned
Sorry, Internet Perry Masons, i should have said you can get convicted of murder 2 for a punch.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_636cb831-f292-5238-b70d-5e523205ff1f.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_636cb831-f292-5238-b70d-5e523205ff1f.html
EleventhDoctor
Banned
metalslimer
Member
I don't completely disagree with that. The arguments I arguing against are the people who legitimately think he should be in prison until he is an old man.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Then what do you call punching the man dead?
The important thing is to determine what 'dangerous' means; the actual level of risk his act exposed the other person to. Anything can result in death.
Who are you to decide this for society? He killed someone. He went out of his way to throw a punch at someone, and that person died. Maybe he didn't have intent to kill, but he did intend to cause harm.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
That sounds about right-55 years.
This post confuses me. Did I take it too far? If thats really what you are trying to say that I don't know how I took it too far. It seems to me that plenty of people on GAF want to pretend they are an expert on this but then they just say they want to throw this kid away forever. I'm just pointing out that he really isn't that dangerous of an element in society. He made a mistake, it happens to the best of us as well. His mistake was just unlucky since it happened to cause a death.
Involuntary manslaughter.
Sorian does this perspective come from anything special? You know of an instance where someone was unjustly punished for their violent actions? Why are you taking up the defense on this?
also, no one is going to "throw him away forever". I'd be surprised if they went more than 10, unless he's got a history.
also, no one is going to "throw him away forever". I'd be surprised if they went more than 10, unless he's got a history.
I'm not deciding anything for the society, this is how the criminal justice system largely works, which is why he should be charged with assault or manslaughter, but the sentence should be closer to the scale of the former
metalslimer
Member
This sounds about right legally. A couple of years and then parole.
outunderthestars
Banned
I would say voluntary manslaughter as there was malice and an intent to harm, just not an intent to kill.
ComputerMKII
Banned
And somehow this wasn't 'a bit excessive' too?
heliosRAzi
Banned
And here is a story of someone getting probation for aggravated assault
Manslaughter. It was not murder in the first.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Involuntary Manslauger is defined as being caused by someone's carelessness, and the accused didn't have an intent.
This kid didn't punch the victim on accident-he had an intent to harm.
Anything personal? No, nothing comes to mind that I can think of. I'm really only taking up defense on this because the first page was riddled with people wanting to toss him in jail and throw away the key. And now more recently, Computer is still arguing that in the topic. Like I said on the last page, I think, its manslaughter, plain and simple. I think he should be doing 10 years at the most with the opportunity of a lessened sentence with good behavior. I do not think that is a "very serious punishment" like some people are calling for but it does fit with what happened.
Edit: I will also say that, yes, voluntary manslaughter would be the correct charge in most states. Involuntary is usually used for negligence (leaving children in the car, etc.).
Did you choose to drink and are or should be aware of the consequences of drinking?
metalslimer
Member
Sounds right no?
So is my understanding wrong here that there only has to be intent one crime (assault) that leads to murder? Either way the kid is probably going to plead down to somethign like this as he is not getting charged with murder no matter how much people want that.
Yeah possible so.
Did he choose to punch and was he or should he be aware of the consequences of punching?
What the kid did is equivalent to driving drunk and killing someone. But people in this thread seem to think what happened was less serious. That is an assumption on my part, so if people arguing for just a few years for the kid would argue the same for a drunk driver, I have no point.
well you know knee-jerk GAF is gonna do what they do. He's not going to get life in prison, so you're defending an unnecessary point. I wouldn't even try to convince them out of it, really. Manslaughter or Murder 2/non-maximum sentence, because he's young and it was an arguably excitable scenario.
Also, if you read the post, you find a couple key differences. There was no "heat of the moment" in that case, the assault was planned and calculated. The person to be assaulted was random but the act itself was there. It also sounds like there was follow-up, he didn't just punch the guy and ran off or started to cool down. He punched the guy to the ground then got on the ground and went for round 2 with him. You're comparing apples and oranges.
metalslimer
Member
There are drunk drivers who get out in a few years on parole. I don't necesarily agree with that sentence though.
Involuntary manslaughter for one-punch deaths is very common in the US
See e.g.
http://columbusgeorgialawyer.com/se...of-man-he-struck-in-waffle-house-parking-lot/
Punching someone does not mean you intended to cause serious injury, let alone kill. Indeed, the punch isn't likely to cause serious injury, although that depends on the circumstances.
metalslimer
Member
Intent to cause serious physical injury? Ok well I guess we would have to know more about the kid, but is that really the case here? The involuntary description does seem more apt.
It was a really stupid kid who at least it seems from the story never wanted to causes serious damage to the ref. Otherwise he would have continued attacking.
outunderthestars
Banned
I just found another case in Las Vegas as well. Looks like there is a clear precedent for involuntary manslaughter charges for that type of crime.
Rocket Scientist
Member
This is one of the biggest false equivalencies I've seen on GAF.
If you look up the state of law Missouri for second degree murder you can clearly see why, The incident in the article was a planned with the intent to cause harm lead to the death of the man.
You cant tell me this heat of the moment incident fit!
Choosing to drink is different from throwing a punch in the heat of a moment
It's not as people arguing for a harsh sentence are largely dismissing the level of risk of the act as irrelevant
ComputerMKII
Banned
That's why people are told to think before they punch.
Rocket Scientist
Member
Completely irrelevant to his insane comparison.
metalslimer
Member
Ok what exactly do you think locking this kid up for 60 yearrs is going to do? I think most people here agree he needs to be punished, but I'm curious why people want this kid in jail the rest of his life when much worse crimes get less.
We shouldn't be punching people in the head if it isn't in self defense. He should be charged with manslaughter, because he's killed someone.
Voluntary manslaughter because he intended to cause harm.
People are told to do a lot of things during their life time. Sometimes you can't follow all of the advice given to you. I know it may be rough for you to understand but people do have emotions.
Choosing to drive is still not the same as throwing a punch. The cases where choosing to drive is a heat of the moment act are much more rare than the cases where choosing to punch is a heat of the moment act.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
I really hope that I'm never on a jury with GAF.
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