Or a lawyerI really hope that I'm never on a jury with GAF.
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US Soccer Referee Dies After Punch
- Thread starter s7evn
- Start date
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ComputerMKII
Banned
"Nul n'est censé ignorer la loi." ("Ignorance of the law is no excuse/Everyone is presumed to know the law").
EleventhDoctor
Banned
nailbombxx
Member
Involuntary manslaughter.
Rocket Scientist
Member
The mob is always harsher than professional judges. It's not just Gaf.I really hope that I'm never on a jury with GAF.
empty vessel
Member
That's absurd. The kid should face consequences, but he didn't intend to kill anybody and his actions were reactionary. And he's a juvenile.
You are saying that the puncher is less blame worthy because the emotional condition he is in leads him to make a decision to do something without rational forethought. A drunk person is also in a condition which can lead him to make a decision to do something without rational forethought. The difference is anger causing a cloud of judgement or booze. Results are the same. Someone dies because you weren't thinking clearly enough.
Choosing to punch someone because you have anger management issues is the same as choosing to drive drunk. Both should have serious consequences.
It still does not absolve you from consequences of drinking, and terms and conditions set to operate a vehicle and multiple warning on labels of drinks to not to operate vehicles requiring licenses.
I would also like to point out imo the young man should be locked up for a good while, but no where near 20 to life, 5 to 10 sounds fair.
djplaeskool
Member
I really hope that I'm never on a jury with GAF.
Sentenced to five years of demeaning tags, Pop-GAF gif inventory duties, and daily playthroughs of Resident Evil 6
Dude Abides
Banned
No I'm not. The premeditation wasn't relevant to the murder 2 conviction. He wasn't convicted of murder 1.
Do you have any legal training?
Of course it doesn't absolve you from anything. Neither does being angry when you punch and kill some dude.
metalslimer
Member
The only reason I think the driving penalty should be harsher is the fact that a car is a lot more dangerous than a fist
I really hope that I'm never on a jury with GAF.
Judge: Alright, the charges brought to court for the case of the State vs. EleventhDoctor are as follows: Possession of a Controlled Substance and Sale of a Controlled Substance to a minor, how do you plead?
EleventhDoctor: Not G....[interruption]
GAF Juror: Actually, Your Honor, we feel that a charge of first degree murder should be added to the case!
Judge: On what ground? There was no death or victim
GAF Juror: Doesn't matter, we have to find a way to lock this guy away forever, he committed a crime!
I don't mean to insinuate that you do drugs or would sell them to a minor, that's just what came to mind
I wouldn't be shocked if incidents of death are just as likely from a punch as they are from someone driving above the legal limit, but there probably aren't stats to say one way or the other. I just think that a ton of idiots drive drunk.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Yep. Never touch people unless attacked first, that's self-defense 101. It's not that hard.
These people playing sports barely within the terms "amateur" have no right to attack a referee. They are doing you a service by adjudicating your shitty, worthless league and OH NO they happen to maybe get one thing wrong. Get over yourself you stupid fucks who play amateur sport. Fuck that person who punched that ref that resulted in his death. Lock 'em up.
Angry Fork
Member
So many fucking psychotic people on gaf.
It was a punch, have you guys never been in a fight before. This kids life doesn't deserve to be ruined over this.
It was a punch, have you guys never been in a fight before. This kids life doesn't deserve to be ruined over this.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Lest we not forget, Nicholas Cage was sentenced in Con-Air-and the judge claimed his fists were a deadly weapon! Real Talk.
I'm not claiming ignorance of the law is a pass. I am, however, claiming that the heat of the moment (emotions) leads to a lesser sentence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide
Ultimadrago
Member
Yikes. That's terrible.
Should he go to jail at all? Or is it just kids being kids, could have happened to anyone?
And this wasn't a fight.
I understand the mental state argument, that would most likely have been used to find him guilty of the assault.
Yet the difference between accidentally killing somebody and intentionally killing somebody has been established by the law/courts. I do feel accidentally killing somebody should always be punishable, but I don't see how its just as egregious as intentionally killing somebody.
empty vessel
Member
A concept that I find a lot of people have difficulty with is the difference between culpability and punishment. Generally, every criminal offense carries with it a sentencing range. Even in Texas--the death penalty capital of the USA--a person who commits intentional murder can receive a probated sentence or a sentence as low as 5 years in prison. It is all of the circumstances surrounding the technical criminal acts--those that aggravate it and those that mitigate it--that will factor into an ultimate sentencing decision.
No, I don't have any legal training. Question right back to you.
Anyway, the premeditation of an assault isn't relevant to a murder 1 charge but it does show malice which is usually the indicator of murder 2. Heat of passion/moment crimes usually have no malice behind them which is why they fall below murder 2.
Dude Abides
Banned
Lol getting a yellow card isn't legally recognized adequate provocation.
To answer your question, I have a JD and have practiced law for nine years.
I don't understand why you are inferring that this kid going to jail and the fact that this could have happened to anyone are mutually exclusive ideas.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Imagine if this kid had something ACTUALLY upsetting occur to him.
It's not that he punched someone that his life should be ruined. It's the fact that he KILLED someone that his life should be ruined.
For everyone on here that says he shouldn't be punished too severely, would you want to tell the victim's family that his death is not a big deal? The kid was just angry so he shouldn't be punished too bad. Next time he gets angry he'll try not to kill. Does this sound ok?
Angry Fork
Member
By fight I meant to point out punches aren't typically a big deal. They're thrown all the time at other people, it's extremely rare and unfortunate if serious injury occurs because of it.
I think whatever will get him to realize he shouldn't punch people is enough. This entire process has likely taught him of that already. I'm not an advocate of revenge, it is common sense to anyone that the death was an accident.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
You're not understanding-the kid had emotions.
If true, then your claim seems silly. Anything can be recognized as provocation. If it caused a temporary loss of control, then it would fall into the category. What is important to one person can be rubbish to the next. There is no "catch-all" list that can state what will set someone off and what won't.
I don't feel like I am the one doing that. It feels like you and others are presenting the "it could happen to anyone" defense to justify a much lower charge.
EleventhDoctor
Banned
Good luck convincing a jury that.
Gaf isn't one person.
Angry Fork
Member
If a guy yelled at some woman for something, she slaps him, he trips on something falls over hits his head on the floor and dies, should her life be ruined? It's a freak accident.
You charge him on something for the punch, assault, whatever it is. Nobody is saying he was right for punching.
But you don't do eye for an eye to 'make up' for an accidental death.
okay... lets just not do this.
please?
because if it was generally accepted that punches kill then ramble ramble ramble rant that's just a hell of a leap
Not that rare. Look up punching death on google. There were five or six that got reported on in the last couple of years. There are several spots on the skull with architectural weaknesses, that can lead to concussion, brain swelling, and death.
Dude Abides
Banned
Yes in fact there are certain acts that are recognized as adequate provocation and those that aren't. Me walking in on you fucking my wife would be considered adequate provocation in every jurisdiction. You calling me an idiot would never be.
heliosRAzi
Banned
It was an accident and I don't think one's life should be completely ruined because of an accident. That isn't to say that the kid should get off and go free. This was manslaughter (or homicide by assault or whatever) and the kid should face the consequences, but some people in this thread are calling for life without parole and that is excessive.
outunderthestars
Banned
I imagine he will get 6-12 months, have a violent felony on his record, and thus spend the rest of his life poverty due to lack of employment.
All over a soccer match.
This guy received 3 months, a long probation, and anger management for a one punch death in 2011.
All over a soccer match.
This guy received 3 months, a long probation, and anger management for a one punch death in 2011.
It should absolutely be generally accepted that punches can kill. Because punches can kill.
Sucks to be him, but he killed a man. Think of how it is for his wife and kids from now on.
MoonLightWave
Member
Missouri state law.
So the knockout game which purpose is to cause enough harm to knock somebody out had nothing to do with charging him with 2nd degree murder.
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