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[A Link to the Past]

*cry cry*

Authors lose money from second-hand sales, directors lose money from second-hand sales, recording producers lose money from second-hand sales

But for whatever reasons, this is bad only when it comes to video games.

 

[etiolate]

I can only imagine the horrible damage garage sales are doing to baby Gap's potential sales.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

Im waiting for SSF4 AE to drop to $20 (second hand/used) so I dont have to give Capcom any more money.
If I buy UMvC3, it'll be second hand too.

 

[r@v3n]

lol, whining won't sell ur games buddy. Why did u make it an exclusive if u were worried abt sales

 

[eek5]

Totally agree. And he was just voicing his opinions on a website about the industry. I see no harm in that...

I'll add - it's also such BS that in this society, we take one quote from a long interview, chop it up and then bold small sections. And then everyone bases their criticisms on the bolded few lines of text. It's great if you want to make a commentary spurred off of a statement, but it's absurd to judge a person and a business based on something so simple (and in text).

To be fair, I disagree with everything he said in the entire interview. The only thing I can sort of agree with is when he starts talking about adjusting prices on games but then I can only agree with him if you take that line out of context

 

[Nemesis121]

Im waiting for SSF4 AE to drop to $20 (second hand/used) so I dont have to give Capcom any more money.
If I buy UMvC3, it'll be second hand too.

I am waiting for the same price too.........


I just bought my cousin 4 games for his birthday, 3 Xbox games and 1 PsP, all used.

 

[Bad7667]

a game I enjoyed more for a week vs a game I play all the time for 6 months? and I have no issues with buying used, infact I think I bought HR used and uncharted 2. gamestop buy 2 get 1 free rocks with the 10% off too. add the $5/10 off discount for rewards, you can get some crazy deals. for the price of one new game, I wait 3 months and can get 3 for the same price.

But that's you. So you're saying that each publisher should ask you what price they should set their games? You originally said you want games like Alan Wake, little to no replay value and SP only to be cheaper than a CoD. But how does a publisher value this? My original point was that its impossible to know what the person buying your game is getting out of it. An example would be that some people may have gotten 20 hours out of Heavy Rain, and others may have only gotten 5 hours out of Black Ops.

I wasn't saying buying used is bad. I'm glad you can play more games for less money.

 

[mclem]

Stop making disposable media and we'll stop disposing of it. Maybe.

Some games would be worse if they weren't also disposable. Catch-22!

 

[Gvaz]

I may not be able to copy it, but if I buy it, I OWN it, I can LEND it, and I can SELL it.

as much as I agree, most companies try to make it out to "it's not yours, you're paying for the right to borrow it from us"

 

[Solid07]

What did they expect? It was a short game with small replay value. Customers saved money by renting, borrowing or buying used copies of the short game. I paid $60 for it the day it came out (12:01am) and traded it in the next day.

Surprise of the century there. :l

 

[R_thanatos]

*cry cry*

Authors lose money from second-hand sales, directors lose money from second-hand sales, recording producers lose money from second-hand sales

But for whatever reasons, this is bad only when it comes to video games.

i wish to know where you live , only to move here , because in france , stuff like second hand sales , and rightfull revenues for authors ( music, movies & videogames ) are quite a big problem shloud i believe ..heck even a law was voted ( almost impossible to act on ) ..

Things like that are a pain in th *ss of all those producers around the world ..because there is no real stability in media controls for them yet ..so they are bitching because they are thinking at what seems to them like a wasted potential

What was the name of that law , again ? HADOPI .. i think ... quite a deal they made in france i believe ..

 

[afternoon delight]

He should be happy he received so many 60$-rental-moneys.

 

[marrec]

By my calculations, I'd lost maybe 10s of dollars on Heavy Rain when I bought it for 60 and was only able to sell it for 35.

I feel robbed.

 

[Warm Machine]

I can easily imagine a future where MS or Sony or whoever rents you a game for 24 hours for $5. They do it for movies right now. They are probably just waiting for better bandwidth penetration and to work out the brick and mortar situation.

Anyone who buys the game after renting it would be paying more for it. It is no different than a rental store except you can always find a copy.

 

[DryvBy]

I'm just curious.. has anyone been persuaded to a different conclusion to the used game market since these topics have began? I'd really like to know if the side FOR used games has been moved even slightly, or if the side AGAINST used games has been moved even slightly.

You may continue bickering after you've answered my question. That is all.

 

[HK-47]

While i admit david expressed himself badly i just don't see what's wrong with the game ...

People will argue " LOL QTEs" or " JASSSON" but to summarrize Heavy rain to that scène only is not fair ...

i bought Heavy rain , i'm part of the 2Mil ..and i'm damn glad i did ..The industry need more games like it .. It has replayability , some cool scènes and a control scheme both accessible & Fair considering what you're doing ...

Since The nomad soul , david is complaining HOW hard it is to make game based on storytelling , he is not going to change now when he realize that with more sales he could have EVEN more ambitions next time

Yeah its pretty hard. Maybe next time David Cage will finally make a good one.

 

[staticneuron]

Bollocks. Pure. Unadulterated. Bollocks. Gaming has NEVER been so mainstream. Ever. I see a 60+ year old man rocking his PSP like a beast on NYC. Mobile/portable gaming, console gaming and even PC gaming via platforms like Steam have never, ever, ever made gaming as accessable as it is now. The "target audience" for gaming isn't shrinking. It has only expanded. Constantly. Gone are the days where videogames were for 12 year old shut ins. The industry isn't anywhere near as narrow as you're making it seem to be. It's as robust and healthy as any entertainment industry out there. The profits seem to back me up here...

Please. The average age of gamers was around 30....... 10 years ago. When I talk about size of industry, I was talking about in relation to other industries people are trying to compare it too such as books, auto's or movies. It isn't a guess or a wild rational leap. The size of the market is determined by the installed base of each device. Since games are not interchangeable between these devices it is even more segmented. This generation especially thanks to the Wii and the PSP we have seen probably close to 100 million more units added to the cumulative total. But it doesn't change the situation. The old man is playing the PSP is counted towards the install and that doesn't make the grab for sales any less important. Sure you can point to a couple of Multiplatform sales and say "see" they are doing well, or even a handful of the larger pubs but the fact remains budgets for big titles have increased and they need to keep them up to stay competitive and reviews and metascores have no problem ripping into a game if they lack "visuals" or don't rank up in comparison to other big budget titles. Take a step back, count the amount of dev studious out there with major projects. Now count the successful ones you are pointing out. Do you see anything a bit lopsided?

The fact that they ARE becoming more and more modular. They've become a hell of alot more modular since this generation of consoles hit the market. DLC wasn't mainstream before. It is now. That's modular content. Only difference is the base game starts at 60 and goes up depending on how much the user wants to invest. For an example., Gears of War 3 launches at 60. I'll have that AND whatever DLC launches. It's extra money and it's completely OPTIONAL content and I'm getting it all. Skins, Characters, Maps...because I'm that into it. Also, I'm not suggesting "forcing" anything. I'm just stating that there ARE justifiable methods to attempt to recoup some of the cost of used games sales...but you can't have you cake and eat it too. You can't piss and moan about how much used games sales aren't "fair" then baulk at adapting to a changing market. Hell, it isn't even changing in regards to used games sales. Used game sales have existed since CalecoVision.

DLC is additional content not modular. You cannot use them independent from original content. And that is the point there. Designing for additional content is one thing designing for "modular content" (parts that can be used independently from one another) throws a monkey wrench in certain designs and goals.

But can the industry sustain every starry eyed dev studio trying to make the next Halo or COD? Dumping millions of dollars into a game isn't going to make it a GOOD game. As someone else pointed out, there's a plethora of cheap, affordable, in many cases completely free tools to use in order to make games. Big budgets carry big risks. That's on the companies making those risks. Not the used game industry.

They don't dump millions just to hope for a success. They are forced to dump millions just to compete. It happens all the time. Animation are not as good as... or gameplay is a little lacking in comparison to... , are just a few of the things you see in reviews that in turn makes it seem as if the devs weren't trying enough when chances are it was time or money that is the issue.

It's not about importance. All of them exist symbiotically. Users get AMAZING experiences in the form of interactive entertainment. The creators of the content get a rabid fanbase that can and will consume and drive their revenue up. The retail outlets provide a huge medium and convenience for BOTH creators and consumers of content to buy/sell as they (and the market) sees fit.

No they don't. You don't "need" to press a game on a disc to get it to consumers. You don't need a special store either. The game is the most important part because at least with that, there is something to be offered, something to desire, hence the driving force of the industry. You cut the feet off the devs and that is it for the content. The presses and the retailers will do what afterwards?

 

[TheStevo]

I rented the game. The game isn't worth the money it's being sold for, I'm not shedding any tears when they didn't even expect the game to sell well yet alone hit two million units sold. Cry moar, QD.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Im waiting for SSF4 AE to drop to $20 (second hand/used) so I dont have to give Capcom any more money.
If I buy UMvC3, it'll be second hand too.

*high five*

 

[Fantasmo]

They don't dump millions just to hope for a success. They are forced to dump millions just to compete. It happens all the time. Animation are not as good as... or gameplay is a little lacking in comparison to... , are just a few of the things you see in reviews that in turn makes it seem as if the devs weren't trying enough when chances are it was time or money that is the issue.

No they don't!!!!

I gave many many examples in my previous posts in this very thread, in the last 200 posts actually.

Repeat after me:
You do NOT have to dump millions to compete.
You do NOT have to dump millions to compete.

You can make a damn fine living, borderline millions, if not millions, by being creative and NOT dumping millions.

Yes, being technologically ahead of the curve is an easy way to get noticed, and a good reason for a huge marketing push BUT...

If a company is dumping gobs of money, then they're dumb for dumping.
If it works out for them, great. If it doesn't that's their freaking problem for choosing the wrong competitors.

Team Meat sold at least 600,000 copies, nevermind merchandising and brand awareness by being creative. Now you tell me, is Super Meat Boy revolutionary? Hell, it's barely even evolutionary? It's just happens to be fantastic, fun, creative and rather cheap for the amount of gameplay in there!

There are others, but I'm not going to keep quoting myself, YOU look them up.

Your statement is not only not true, it's total nonsense!

My viewpoint is, why would you choose to compete with Crytek, id, EA, Epic, if you can't hang with em? That kind of tech and output takes a huge budget.

Compete on a different level and the whole game changes.

What they're not telling you is that they knew this going in. You don't get that type of quality by bumbling around.

 

[Antagon]

No they don't!!!!

I gave many many examples in my previous posts in this very thread, in the last 200 posts actually.

Repeat after me:
You do NOT have to dump millions to compete.
You do NOT have to dump millions to compete.

You can make a damn fine living, borderline millions, if not millions, by being creative and NOT dumping millions.

Yes, being technologically ahead of the curve is an easy way to get noticed, and a good reason for a huge marketing push BUT...

If a company is dumping gobs of money, then they're dumb for dumping.
If it works out for them, great. If it doesn't that's their freaking problem for choosing the wrong competitors.

Team Meat sold at least 600,000 copies, nevermind merchandising and brand awareness by being creative. Now you tell me, is Super Meat Boy revolutionary? Hell, it's barely even evolutionary? It's just happens to be fantastic, fun, creative and rather cheap for the amount of gameplay in there!

There are others, but I'm not going to keep quoting myself, YOU look them up.

Your statement is not only not true, it's total nonsense!

My viewpoint is, why would you choose to compete with Crytek, id, EA, Epic, if you can't hang with em? That kind of tech and output takes a huge budget.

Compete on a different level and the whole game changes.

What they're not telling you is that they knew this going in. You don't get that type of quality by bumbling around.

From what I've played though, the whole appeal of Heavy Rain is its production values. The actual writing and directing are awful and the gameplay mostly detracts, not adds to the experience by adding all kind of useless fluff motions that just slow the game down and leaving out the most obvious choices when you have options. For example, when you're at the police station

Spoiler

for reporting your missing son

you got several choices, but you can't tell the truth even though that seems to be the smartest thing to do in the situation.

The game looks nice and you can see that they've thrown tons of money against it, but the whole core of it is rotten.

 

[Brannon]

He's mad about used game sales.

I'm mad about $60 price tags.

One of us is going to stop being mad and get a game at the proper price no matter what, and one of us is going to kiss my ass.

 

[jepjepjep]

LOL, if the game was worth keeping, people would keep it. Maybe if the game was fun to play through more than once, they wouldn't be having this issue...

 

[R_thanatos]

Yeah its pretty hard. Maybe next time David Cage will finally make a good one.

We have different opinions ..maybe because i've played nomad soul 3 times and indigo prephecy twice .. of course i've restarted HR 3 times so far .. and i'm not regretting anything ... HR has flaws but is hardly less than "good"

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Please. The average age of gamers was around 30....... 10 years ago.

You're right. Today it's 37. Please, Just stop.

But don't take my word for it: http://www.joystiq.com/2011/06/08/esa-2011-essential-facts-note-rise-in-women-adult-gamers/

When I talk about size of industry, I was talking about in relation to other industries people are trying to compare it too such as books, auto's or movies. It isn't a guess or a wild rational leap. The size of the market is determined by the installed base of each device. Since games are not interchangeable between these devices it is even more segmented. This generation especially thanks to the Wii and the PSP we have seen probably close to 100 million more units added to the cumulative total. But it doesn't change the situation. The old man is playing the PSP is counted towards the install and that doesn't make the grab for sales any less important. Sure you can point to a couple of Multiplatform sales and say "see" they are doing well, or even a handful of the larger pubs but the fact remains budgets for big titles have increased and they need to keep them up to stay competitive and reviews and metascores have no problem ripping into a game if they lack "visuals" or don't rank up in comparison to other big budget titles. Take a step back, count the amount of dev studious out there with major projects. Now count the successful ones you are pointing out. Do you see anything a bit lopsided?

A 25.7 BILLION dollar industry in 2010. Lopsided my arse, pal.

DLC is additional content not modular. You cannot use them independent from original content. And that is the point there. Designing for additional content is one thing designing for "modular content" (parts that can be used independently from one another) throws a monkey wrench in certain designs and goals.

Semantics. You can call DLC pecan pie, it doesn't change the fact that developers are DESIGNING THE GAME FROM START to include DLC in their revenue projections. If you don't think so, you underestimate developers desires to realize long term/post launch strats to maximize profit.

They don't dump millions just to hope for a success. They are forced to dump millions just to compete. It happens all the time. Animation are not as good as... or gameplay is a little lacking in comparison to... , are just a few of the things you see in reviews that in turn makes it seem as if the devs weren't trying enough when chances are it was time or money that is the issue.

Forced? Says who? Welcome to capitalism: Adapt or Die. The industry has changed and it's up to everyone content creator and content purchaser to adapt. Combating used games sales as a business strategy in order to maximize profits only makes an enemy of your userbase/potential userbase and is doomed to failure because it's a piss poor strategy. If it worked, I promise you there are many other industries that would have been successful other than gaming. That's really the truth of it. (Caveat: Their ONLY chance of this being successful is going 100% purely digital distribution. But their myopic gains will be offset by the plethora of gamers that have data caps on their internet or just don't have the bandwidth to download 7gb xbox games and 20+gb ps3 games....)

No they don't. You don't "need" to press a game on a disc to get it to consumers. You don't need a special store either. The game is the most important part because at least with that, there is something to be offered, something to desire, hence the driving force of the industry. You cut the feet off the devs and that is it for the content. The presses and the retailers will do what afterwards?

You cut the feet off of *A* dev, and 10 more will adapt, succeed and thrive in its place. Once again, welcome to capitalism....

 

[R_thanatos]

My viewpoint is, why would you choose to compete with Crytek, id, EA, Epic, if you can't hang with em? That kind of tech and output takes a huge budget.

BUt they could compete !! That's the whole reason sony went and pushed the project forward !!

Without that money Heavy rain wouldn't have been the same game ..it would have less endings , less dialogs , even less choices , and it would have been shorter !!People can't be satisfied with small games all the time. And some games NEED money to exist ... Assasin creed can't exist without huge production values...and many games are THE SAME..

Just because everyone can't go that route ..doesn't mean that if one studio CAN , they should avoid it .. We NEED games like Heavy rain

 

[Version 3.0]

No they don't. You don't "need" to press a game on a disc to get it to consumers. You don't need a special store either. The game is the most important part because at least with that, there is something to be offered, something to desire, hence the driving force of the industry. You cut the feet off the devs and that is it for the content. The presses and the retailers will do what afterwards?

You're severely underestimating the importance of retail. Sure, it's becoming less important to game delivery as DD ramps up, but it's still a huge market and has several advantages over DD - advantages for the publisher, not just the customer.

First and foremost, retailers buy up anywhere from thousands to millions of copies, day 1, and allow the publisher to instantly recoup a huge sum of money, possibly their entire development cost or more. The game doesn't even have to sell well (depending on the publisher's deal with each retailer), it can bomb and the publisher (not to mention the platform license holder) still walks away with their cash - the retailer eats some or all of the loss.

If a game bombs as a DD release, the publisher is out all those costs with nothing to offset them.

Of course, there are disadvantages as well, such as (on topic) the inability to circumvent your customers' ownership rights - or at least the extra effort (and illegality) of doing so.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

BUt they could compete !! That's the whole reason sony went and pushed the project forward !!

Withpout that money Heavy rain wouldn't have been teh same game ..it would have less endings , less dialogs , even less choices , and it would have been shorter !!People can't be satisfied with small games all the time. And some games NEED money to exist ... Assasin creed can't exist without huge production values...and many games are THE SAME..

Just because everyone can't go that route ..doesn't mean that if one studio CAN , they should avoid it .. We NEED games like Heavy rain

I completely, 100% agree. We do need big budget games. In fact, the industry and consumers demand it. But it's incumbent on those developers to make big budget games with enough content and long term value to justify the 60$ new price tag to consumers. Everything else is white noise in this debate compared to this crucial point....

 

[Fantasmo]

BUt they could compete !! That's the whole reason sony went and pushed the project forward !!

Withpout that money Heavy rain wouldn't have been teh same game ..it would have less endings , less dialogs , even less choices , and it would have been shorter !!People can't be satisfied with small games all the time. And some games NEED money to exist ... Assasin creed can't exist without huge production values...and many games are THE SAME..

Just because everyone can't go that route ..doesn't mean that if one studio CAN , they should avoid it .. We NEED games like Heavy rain

Are you only reading part of my posts?

...

My viewpoint is, why would you choose to compete with Crytek, id, EA, Epic, if you can't hang with em? That kind of tech and output takes a huge budget.

...

What they're not telling you is that they knew this going in. You don't get that type of quality by bumbling around.

I already stated QD had a big budget, knew it, pushed tech like the big boys, then this one guy blames used sales for not making him richer. My problem with this guy's statement isn't that taking risks is bad, it isn't that Heavy Rain should be low budget, nor that they need to aim lower. I brought up all that stuff about lower budget games to show you can make a classic as well as great money by aiming lower but that wasn't the point. Of course I also enjoy big budget games!

My point was simply this: if you're going to take a huge risk, be prepared for any possible consequences, including going under, and blame nobody but yourselves if you fail.

This didn't even happen. They did wonderfully (probably thanks to Sony's marketing push honestly), but the guy wants even more money so he blamed the used industry. I've read about this sentiment multiple times at this point, but this one just took the cake. That's what made me sick enough to start posting in this thread.

 

[Antagon]

We have different opinions ..maybe because i've played nomad soul 3 times and indigo prephecy twice .. of course i've restarted HR 3 times so far .. and i'm not regretting anything ... HR has flaws but is hardly less than "good"

What's good about it? The writing is shite and 90% of the gameplay is superfluous and doesn't really change the game at all. It's frustrating that people look at this as the future of story telling in games and not to something like Silent Hill: Shattered Memories or Shadow of the Colossus.

 

[JaseC]

Forced? Says who? Welcome to capitalism: Adapt or Die. The industry has changed and it's up to everyone content creator and content purchaser to adapt. Combating used games sales as a business strategy in order to maximize profits only makes an enemy of your userbase/potential userbase and is doomed to failure because it's a piss poor strategy. If it worked, I promise you there are many other industries that would have been successful other than gaming. That's really the truth of it. (Caveat: Their ONLY chance of this being successful is going 100% purely digital distribution. But their myopic gains will be offset by the plethora of gamers that have data caps on their internet or just don't have the bandwidth to download 7gb xbox games and 20+gb ps3 games....)

 

[hateradio]

I was one of those who bout it new and sold it. 8)

 

[R_thanatos]

What's good about it? The writing is shite and 90% of the gameplay is superfluous and doesn't really change the game at all. It's frustrating that people look at this as the future of story telling in games and not to something like Silent Hill: Shattered Memories or Shadow of the Colossus.

i love shadow of collosus , i'm not a fan of silent hill however.

For the gameplay , the ARI parts were very well done , and the fact that you have to mimick actions with the right stick is a good thing ( as opposed to just a PRESS A ton interract in most games ) ..the writting being shit is your opinion alone .. and i won't argue ABout that part because it's objective ....there are Many scenes in heavy rain that are very well done , especially ETHAN trials ( Or the evil doctor basement )

So suddenly ..the story is Bad because you didn't like the twist ? but what about the other qualities the story had ? you won't make me believe there is nothing else in heavy rain than the fact you didn't like that ..the point of view of your character was 100% accurate .. Heavy rain is not the first to use this trick and it certainly helps to make the game less predictable.

Heavy rain is not perfect by any means , there are some parts of the story that feel "FORCED" but as a whole it's certainly not just "sh*t"... unless you think it's bad because others told you so ...

 

[mescalineeyes]

the writting being shit is your opinion alone ..

... or anyone really ever immersed in a real storyteller's medium such as books or movies.

(I am not saying games can not tell a story, but Heavy Rain decided to tout itself to have a story that actually mattered when ultimately, it was borderline dumb and lazy, if immersive.)

 

[Antagon]

i love shadow of collosus , i'm not a fan of silent hill however.

For the gameplay , the ARI parts were very well done , and the fact that you have to mimick actions with the right stick is a good thing ( as opposed to just a PRESS A ton interract in most games ) ..the writting being shit is your opinion alone .. and i won't argue ABout that part because it's objective ....there are Many scenes in heavy rain that are very well done , especially ETHAN trials ( Or the evil doctor basement )

So suddenly ..the story is Bad because you didn't like the twist ? but what about the other qualities the story had ? you won't make me believe there is nothing else in heavy rain than the fact you didn't like that ..the point of view of your character was 100% accurate .. Heavy rain is not the first to use this trick and it certainly helps to make the game less predictable.

Heavy rain is not perfect by any means , there are some parts of the story that feel "FORCED" but as a whole it's certainly not just "sh*t"... unless you think it's bad because others told you so ...

I've only just gotten the game and am far from finishing it, but theres so much bad stuff already in that I can't take it seriously. It's from simple stuff like drawing a whole house for a project from scratch in what seems like an hour or two max, the way the kids behave like 3 year olds or the fact that you can't actually tell the truth about what happened when you're reporting your son as missing. And how the hell did the press and Shelby know about Shaun missing? That's just some examples, I can keep on going on about it and that's just a few hours in.

The ARI part that I've played seemed stupid. The ARI is out of place in the game and the gameplay only consisted of pressing R1 and seeing some clues show up, then following a trail. Why not make you think a bit and try and piece everything together yourself?

And I don't think that mimicking the motions adds a lot. Closer to the opposite, the devs seemed to feel necessary to add in tons of useless motions, just to show off. I mean, why the fuck would I care about the tie of the chief? Why make me do 5 motions to tie that? Or why do I have to push a couple of buttons to carry a couple of bags of groceries? Really, that doesn't pull me in at all.

About Shattered Memories (Major ending spoilers, don't read it if you still want to play it):

Spoiler

The concept behind the story is brilliant. Cheryl's traumatized by her fathers death and has idolized him in her memory. Her view on her mother is very unrealistic as well, somehow blaming her for her fathers death and the divorce. During the game your exploring both her memories of her childhood after the event and the effects of the trauma on it and you're learning more about Harry and what he really was like.

Thing is, you basically form her memories of him. The way you play, influences what Harry was like. It's an absolutely brilliant way to interweave your interaction with the story and adds a lot to the experience.

 

[R_thanatos]

I've only just gotten the game and am far from finishing it, but theres so much bad stuff already in that I can't take it seriously. It's from simple stuff like drawing a whole house for a project from scratch in what seems like an hour or two max, the way the kids behave like 3 year olds or the fact that you can't actually tell the truth about what happened when you're reporting your son as missing. And how the hell did the press and Shelby know about Shaun missing? That's just some examples, I can keep on going on about it and that's just a few hours in.

The ARI part that I've played seemed stupid. The ARI is out of place in the game and the gameplay only consisted of pressing R1 and seeing some clues show up, then following a trail. Why not make you think a bit and try and piece everything together yourself?

And I don't think that mimicking the motions adds a lot. Closer to the opposite, the devs seemed to feel necessary to add in tons of useless motions, just to show off. I mean, why the fuck would I care about the tie of the chief? Why make me do 5 motions to tie that? Or why do I have to push a couple of buttons to carry a couple of bags of groceries? Really, that doesn't pull me in at all.

You're not far into the game ..and you've not paid attention..
You can draw a house in 1,2 hours , especially if it's just an overall design in concept .. never you DO draw the interior of the house .. it's never specified what the project ethan is working on was ..it's a silly argument .

The kids are spoiled by their parents and excited because a party will happen ( it's a birdthday after all .. )i fail to see how they are acting like 3years old ... they are acting like kids ( i repeat ) Have you played with kids .... yes it's silly but every parents playing with kids outdoors do that ( i do ) ..Compare 2 years later with the ethan - shauw set piece ..
Really ..these are bad examples to dislike the game.

So yeah "i having blackouts recently , my son has disapeared and i think think i'm the origami killer " ..yeah let's tell the truth ..he 's lost a son already , his mariage and is confused .. but sure telling the truth is the right choice ...

Shelby doesn't know about shauwn ( in the plot ) his setinng is : i'm working with the previous familly to find more clues about this than the police.. it's stated nmerous times that the police didn't paid attention to the killing because the victim were poor , the origami case escallated shortly BEFORE the start of the game ( and that is why Jaden is coming ) ... what's more

Spoiler

the reason he know about shaun is explained later in the game

..

About ARI , you can miss clues ( yes even with ARI ) this isn't gabriel knight or monkey island where you can try anything untill you've realised that you must use the GUM on the cactus to open the door..but sure let's try Everything and get stuck for hours in a set piece ...

About mimicking ... Those actions are simple tutorials ...later the game requires quite more complex actions ( such as avoiding electric arcs for example , or police chases , this is nothing but a way to accomodate the player to the control scheme )..and yes ... for normal ties ..you sometimes have to make those complex moves

 

[thelurkinghorror]

lol, whining won't sell ur games buddy. Why did u make it an exclusive if u were worried abt sales

This... how many more copies you sell if the games is multiformat? A lot... but Sony pay you a lot for the exclusive, the exactly amount of money you loss for not selling your product on other format. Quantic, you have to add this next time you put a firm on an exclusive contract.

 

[snap0212]

... or anyone really ever immersed in a real storyteller's medium such as books or movies.

(I am not saying games can not tell a story, but Heavy Rain decided to tout itself to have a story that actually mattered when ultimately, it was borderline dumb and lazy, if immersive.)

So what you say is that, once enough people have an opinion about something, it becomes a fact?

Maybe it doesn't, but that's when you step in and say that anyone who even qualifies to have an opinion about that Topic shares your opinion. Only religious people are in a position where they can have a valid opinion about God. Everyone else who has a different opinion about God is not religious and thus not in a position to have an opinion about God. Okay.

 

[reggieandTFE]

Funny enough I bought this used last week. Why are most of the voices so terrible? Besides Scott and Madison, it doesn't sound like anyone else is a native English speaker. The damn kids sounds like mentally diminished 5 year olds.

 

[Diablos]

Just now, I was thinking about Heavy Rain as I went through trophies on an old account, and something popped into my head. Not sure if it has been previously discussed.

I remembered what David Cage once said about how one should play Heavy Rain:

... "I would like people to play it once…because that’s life. Life you can only play once...I would like people to have this experience that way." He goes on to say, "I'm fine with [reloading to avoid a bad result], but the right way to enjoy Heavy Rain is really to make one thing because it's going to be your story. It's going to be unique to you. It's really the story you decided to write...I think playing it several times is also a way to kill the magic of it."

(source)

So, he first advocates for playing the game only once so that it remains your unique story. He is indirectly stating that he prefers you view it as something with essentially no replay value unless you want to cheapen the experience. Okay, I can respect that. Everyone kind of crafts their own story that is unique to their experience playing the game. Makes sense.

But to then later whine that you have lost money due to used game sales, well... that's kind of ironic, isn't it? By more or less encouraging people who bought your game to play it only once, Mr. Cage, you might have well have also added "feel free to give the game to a friend or trade it in when you're done since you have no need to finish the game more than once." After all, what else am I going to do with it? Let it sit on the shelf? People don't have a lot of money these days, so the practical thing to do for a game that you would only play once is sell it or let friends and family borrow/keep it.

I just find it really funny that he would take out his frustration over poor sales on the used game market. Maybe he shouldn't have made a previous statement that probably encouraged a lot of people to ditch their copy as soon as they get to their ending.

EDIT: It was not Cage who said that, but Guillaume de Fondaumiere (Co-Founder). Still, it's throwing a lot of people off as Cage is the director, not to mention it makes it look like there's a lack of communication between key people within a company. Just messy. The game director is saying play it only once while the co-founder is saying that ditching Heavy Rain has cost the company a lot of money because of the used game market. Reeks of mixed messaging.

 

[Ellis Kim]

Just now, I was thinking about Heavy Rain as I went through trophies on an old account, and something popped into my head. Not sure if it has been previously discussed in light of his recent whining about the used game market.

I remembered what David Cage once said about how one should play Heavy Rain:


(source)

So, he first advocates for playing the game only once so that it remains your unique story. He is indirectly stating that he prefers you view it as something with essentially no replay value unless you want to cheapen the experience. Okay, I can respect that. Everyone kind of crafts their own story that is unique to their experience playing the game. Makes sense.

But to then later whine that you have lost money due to used game sales, well... that's kind of ironic, isn't it? By more or less encouraging people who bought your game to play it only once, Mr. Cage, you might have well have also added "feel free to give the game to a friend or trade it in when you're done since you have no need to finish the game more than once." After all, what else am I going to do with it? Let it sit on the shelf? People don't have a lot of money these days, so the practical thing to do for a game that you would only play once is sell it or let friends and family borrow/keep it.

I just find it really funny that he would take out his frustration over poor sales on the used game market. Maybe he shouldn't have made a previous statement that probably encouraged a lot of people to ditch their copy as soon as they go to their ending.

Derp.

I can take just one example of Heavy Rain," Quantic Dream co-founder Guillaume de Fondaumiere told GamesIndustry.biz. "We basically sold to date approximately two million units. We know from the Trophy system that probably more than three million people bought this game and played it.

I seriously hope not everyone (and I know a few gaming podcasts got this completely wrong and thought like you did) thinks that it was Cage who said this. Seriously, guys.

 

[Diablos]

Derp.

I seriously hope not everyone (and I know a few gaming podcasts got this completely wrong and thought like you did) thinks that it was Cage who said this. Seriously, guys.

Derp indeed, I stand corrected. Either way, Guillaume de Fondaumiere had to know Cage previously said that. He honestly should have just kept his mouth shut. It makes it looks like there's a lack of understanding and communication between key people within the company. Or people just wrongly take it out on David Cage which is unfortunate.

 

[Massa]

I have relatives in the US right now so I checked gamestop.com to see what's the selling price for some older games right now, and sure enough I find that they just don't stock new games for the most part, only used games. Heavy Rain in particular is unavailable new at $30, available used at $27.

This is ridiculous.

 

[Ellis Kim]

I have relatives in the US right now so I checked gamestop.com to see what's the selling price for some older games right now, and sure enough I find that they just don't stock new games for the most part, only used games. Heavy Rain in particular is unavailable new at $30, available used at $27.

This is ridiculous.

Amazon?

 

[Version 3.0]

I have relatives in the US right now so I checked gamestop.com to see what's the selling price for some older games right now, and sure enough I find that they just don't stock new games for the most part, only used games. Heavy Rain in particular is unavailable new at $30, available used at $27.

This is ridiculous.

What's ridiculous about it? Are you suggesting Gamestop should buy more new copies from the publisher? I promise you that's not economically sound. And given their market share, they may have sold 25% or more of those 2 million, so I'd say they've done their part.

 

[X26]

what a douche

 

[Massa]

Amazon?

Sure, but that's still a very large part of the market going that route.

What's ridiculous about it? Are you suggesting Gamestop should buy more new copies from the publisher? I promise you that's not economically sound. And given their market share, they may have sold 25% or more of those 2 million, so I'd say they've done their part.

What's ridiculous is that it's not a sustainable model.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Sure, but that's still a very large part of the market going that route.



What's ridiculous is that it's not a sustainable model.

Publishers can't or won't take less of a cut. Gamestop can't or won't take less of a cut.

Which pretty much leaves two options:

- Game price stays the same, budgets plummet, everyone makes more money.

- Game prices increase, budgets stay the same, everyone makes more money.

Neither of which is great for the consumer.

What will likely happen is:

- Game prices stay the same or increase, budgets increase, no one is really making more money, publishers will blame Gamestop, Gamestop will blame publishers, both will continue to work with each other and fuck the consumer over on high used game prices and low buybacks and used game punishments such as Project Ten Dollar and 185KB DLC keys because, in the end, the only sustainable model is one that is built on the assumption that the consumers are endless fountains of money that will never say enough is enough.

Hooray, future.

 

[Diablos]

what a douche

See my edited post.

 

[witchedwiz]

Im waiting for SSF4 AE to drop to $20 (second hand/used) so I dont have to give Capcom any more money.
If I buy UMvC3, it'll be second hand too.

seriously screw capcom..
sold my mvc3 for 25 euros, buyng umvc3 for 24...
Hope that arc-system goes back and offer a free cs2-TO-extended patch, and give cs2 user the option to
1) buy the whole package of cs2 char + extended char + say "new extended feature" for 15 euros
2) buy extended char + say "new extended feature" for 6 euros
else..
I'm skipping extended..
no offense, but..
I bought sf4..
then I bought ssf4..
then i payed for ssf4 ae..

mvc3..
i bought 2 chars..
then I have to buy umvc3..

bb:cs
then i have to buy bb:ct
then i have to buy bb:ct charas
then I have to buy YET another full game???

heck, step up a bit, I'm no frigging cow, I'm a consumer, ffs, you can't just expect me to say "yes sir, I'll give you my wallet now"..
And then they DARE complain about used sales??
Them balls!