rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
The funny part is that they will make less money because now they have to pay for denuvo.
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[VGC] Denuvo security is now on Switch, including new tech to block PC Switch emulation
- Thread starter Thick Thighs Save Lives
- Start date
- News
winjer
Gold Member
I don't remember Denuvo requiring new hardware. But may have happened.
But it could happen, as newer CPUs also have new instructions to accelerate some calculations.
But games also require new instructions, so they will be needed either way.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Imagine championing the reduction of individual freedom, all for the benefit of a corporation's bottom line
IFireflyl
Gold Member
What a stupid take. It's my game, and I'll play it how I want to play it. I bought a Switch, and a bought a Switch game. If I want to play it on my PC, I'm going to play it on my PC.
I also buy books from Amazon Kindle, and then remove their DRM so I can read those books from any device that I would like to read them from instead of being locked into reading them solely from a Kindle device. This is no different. I'm just accessing my purchased content the way that I want to access it.
Neither Amazon or Nintendo are harmed by my actions. Why would someone go to prison because someone abused their creation? Should the corporations who make firearms be culpable for every murder that is done with a firearm? Absolutely idiotic take, man.
winjer
Gold Member
And Denuvo will be cracked, like all it's previous versions.
Then it's just the paying consumers that get hurt.
Guilty_AI
Member
Didn't stop said game from selling 20 million copies in a few months, so
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
You think there's an honor system or something? lolno if those guys actually bought the games, no one would have a problem, but it's why we can't have nice things.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Are you in favor of any laws? They all reduce individual freedom.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
A lot of laws overstep and should not exist, yes.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Does the pope shit in the woods? Is a bear catholic?
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brian0057
Banned
This.
It's like people either can't or won't understand that companies want to make money.
They're not your friends. And if you think they are, you deserve to have your money taken.
Apparently, it's really hard to not open your wallet.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Anyone that believes that PC gamers that own a Steam Deck and don't own a Switch are stockpiling physical copies of Switch games that rarely go on sale just so they can be a good person before they emulate it is a complete moron.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
There are still millions of functional PS3's in the wild. Not to mention the software archives kept by the developers, the publishers and the platform holders of the source code and binary images.
The argument that material created in the corporate digital era is anywhere near as endangered as stuff made and distributed in the days of analog and magnetic media is plainly horse-shit.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
Naw dawg, I should be able to grab and dash a new PS5 from the store. INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM! Yeehaw
Guilty_AI
Member
oh boy
Mithos
Member
I was thinking of the instruction sets indeed.
Also this was actually the thing I was thinking of about the games I mentioned, cracking Denuvo on that game made the game run on a older cpu (no performance drop either).
I might have dreamt it, but that's what I remember, cant find it though because my google-fu is really bad.
Edit:
It was something like the game didn't need SSE 4.1 or SSE 4.2 support in the CPU, but denuvo did, so...
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graywolf323
Member
who wants to be the one to tell Clear that publishers/developers absolutely suck at games preservation?
not that it matters, they’ll just move the goalposts again
nkarafo
Member
What DRM shills fail to understand is pirates don't buy games. They won't just buy a game because they can't pirate it. They will simply download whatever else they can get. Titles don't mean much in this case.
Pirated downloads don't equal lost sales. Not even 1 every 1000 i'm willing to bet. So, in the end, even when DRM is succesful, the difference in sales is too small for the damage it does to the paying customers. Just to stop pirates out of spite?
Not to mention the cost of DRM itself for the publisher. It's not worth it IMO but i guess some publishers still think it does. Guess they know better.
Pirated downloads don't equal lost sales. Not even 1 every 1000 i'm willing to bet. So, in the end, even when DRM is succesful, the difference in sales is too small for the damage it does to the paying customers. Just to stop pirates out of spite?
Not to mention the cost of DRM itself for the publisher. It's not worth it IMO but i guess some publishers still think it does. Guess they know better.
RagnarokIV
Member
Except code and assets are still being lost for modern games.
dotnotbot
Member
But it takes a lot of time and I bet what Nintendo mainly wants is to prevent people from playing it on emulators when the game is new.
Ron Mexico
Member
Like so many other "services", what makes Denuvo profitable for them is a subscription-based model. You don't have a subscription for a 100% offline product.
Given the cost and the online necessity, I imagine this is going to be used sparingly and universally panned for the small handful of titles where it does get implemented. The implementation cost isn't cheap comparatively (according to AWS it's $0.50 per copy AND $25,000 per month) so you're already limiting your potential audience to what will likely be larger publishers. Now, if you include Denuvo on a title from one of those larger publishers and launch a physical version, you're going to need a disclaimer that the game requires an internet connection since again, Denuvo isn't working offline. That in turn, it would stand to reason, could just as easily impact the sales that Denuvo's entire premise was looking to preserve. Not that Nintendo themselves would ever do it, but would they risk any kind of sales by including a disclaimer of "needs an internet connection to run"? Hard to think so.
The Switch market isn't the PC market. The PC market has become overwhelmingly digital so by that very nature, there's the presence of an online connection.
So the reality, it seems, is that Denuvo on Switch is an "answer" in search of a problem.
Guilty_AI
Member
I lost track of all the devs and publishers who lost source code one way or the other for not apparent reason.
winjer
Gold Member
Could you be thinking about the issues that Denuvo had with Intel's 12th gen?
Several games were unplayable, because Denuvo could not recognize the e-cores and refused to launch.
Some gamers had to disable the e-cores, until a patch for Denuvo in these games. But some people could have just used cracks.
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jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Not the same thing. In this case there is already a law (fair use) that has been decided pretty definitively by the courts. It says that if I buy a Switch game physically, I should have the right play it on whatever hardware I choose if I have the technical means to do so. Any dev that uses this DRM is essentially removing my ability to do so, and won't be getting money from me.
It's not like murder is legal now and I'm against a new law that makes it not so just because it removes my ability to legally murder someone.
Lokaum D+
Member
u cant have nice thing cause Nintendo dont want to invest in hardware and keep selling those 10 years old consoles to profit the most on the back of their fanbase, i m against piracy of any kind, but if u have the game what is the problem to use a better hardware in oder to have a better expirience ?
graywolf323
Member
Mass Effect DLC With Lost Source Code Returns To Legendary Edition Via Mod
Pinnacle Station wasn't included in the recent re-release because its source code had been lost
kotaku.com
Saving video gaming’s source code treasures before it’s too late
Over 90 percent of pre-2000 gaming source code may already be gone.
arstechnica.com
They lost the source code to what!?
I've seen posts all over GAF over the years talking about how some (almost always Japanese) developer lost the source code to their old game. R-Type III, when ported to the GBA? The original code wasn't around, so the port wound up blowing. Sonic the Hedgehog apparently had a similar...
Ninja Gaiden 1 & 2's Code Has Been Lost, So Don't Expect a Ninja Gaiden Black Remaster - IGN
The Ninja Gaiden: Master Collection team was "unable to salvage" code for the original games, meaning that we'll likely never see new versions of Ninja Gaiden Black or Ninja Gaiden 2.
‘Diablo II’ Creators Reveal Original Source Code And Assets Were Lost, Making a Remaster Difficult
Those (including myself) hoping for Blizzard to give longtime fans a remaster of Diablo II (which has long been rumoured to be in the works) have been dealt an unfortunate dose of reality. During a panel at ExileCon 2019, the creators of the Diablo franchise – Max Schaefer, Erich Schaefer, and...
bloody-disgusting.com
Pushing Buttons: Why it’s getting harder to play your old favourite games
In this week’s newsletter: A new report says 87% of games released before 2010 are no longer commercially available – and it’s a huge loss for the art form
www.theguardian.com
etc. etc., there’s so many examples of this, heck Square-Enix lost the source code for Kingdom Hearts 1…
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nkarafo
Member
Publishers lose the source codes of their games all the time. They also tend to tamper or censor old games when they re-release them.
The fact that some people trust the publishers as much is so weird to me.
Mithos
Member
Was way earlier Devil May Cry 5 era denuvo times, like 2019 and around there and game then.
It was something like the game didn't need SSE 4.1 or SSE 4.2 support in the CPU, but denuvo did, so...
Punished Miku
Gold Member
"If you have the technical means to do so" doesn't sound like they are legally required to never use DRM. They are selling the game to be played on their system.
Your original statement about individual freedom was so broad it was just crazy. Corporations have a right to not be robbed outright after investing millions of dollars to make something. The gaslighting on this topic is so ridiculous after what happened with Tears of the Kingdom over a week prior to launch, when obviously none of those people were able to buy the game. Something about that is deeply wrong and has to change.
What you're describing is obviously not how its being used. It's just a flat out lie. The game literally wasn't even out yet.
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ShadyAcshuns
Member
That's such bullshit and you know it. Back in the days of Gamecube I was on an IRC from a group on Gamespot, back when they had unions on forums. There were tons of users who wouldn't buy Nintendo games even when they had parity with the competition. They'd use their fanboyism to pirate Nintendo games and pay for Playstation games just because of brand loyalty.
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Punished Miku
Gold Member
Yep, then it's fine to pirate because they never go on sale. There will always be an entitled reason. More gaslighting.
MadchesterManc
Member
Not to mention, according to the Yuzu FAQ, you need the encryption keys, files etc from your own hacked V1 Switch to legally use the emulator
Switch emulation is such a massive grey area, even with a V1 Switch I've not even bothered to try it yet myself (I really only use it for stuff like Hyrule Warriors etc anyway that play fine as is)
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Things changed drastically around the start of the PS3/360 era as that was when digital distribution became standard, and the entire industry became more corporate/professional. Its easy to forget than even things as basic as source control weren't universally implemented til the late 90's.
RagnarokIV
Keep believing that lie! The issue is more about compiler/tool-chain changes making re-building a frustrating process. Not that that sort of effort is really ever justified unless the project is being maintained/re-built/remastered.
What cracks me up about all this is the idea that everyone who downloads or creates a binary image creates back-ups on back-ups of their own in case their hardware fails or is lost!
Just be honest, you don't really give a toss about preservation, you just want to play old games! Noone's judging you for that, its the dishonest way you are portraying your interests that's the problem
Guilty_AI
Member
lmao
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Funny how you use "yeehaw" when there are far left states that decriminalize and do not arrest for stolen items $1,000 or less. Like California and the like.
So yes, they can pick up the PS5 and walk out unabated. Which is why a lot of stores are closing shop in those areas.
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Lokaum D+
Member
of course there is piracy out there, but been pirated it's not a Nintendo only thing, PS has emulation, Xbox has emulation, ( here in Brazil PS2, PS3 and X360 games are pirated to this day ) Sega has it, emulation is a great, back in the day u could just pop your PS2 game at the PC disk tray and run your own game through some PS2 emulator in order to have a new experience, i dont speak for anyone else but for me and i m very against piracy ,but i don't see anything wrong with emulation, you dont see Sony or MS going after emulation softwares like Nintendo does, again we need to condemn piracy not emulation imo.
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Sleepwalker
Member
If anything it got worse with the gutting and delisting of games due to stupid things like car and music licenses.
chlorate
Member
That’s where you’re mistaken: it’s not your media: you’re buying a license to use it, and what you’re doing is in breach of that license.
Everyone here needs to be in firm agreement that what you are doing IS harmful- no exceptions. You’re parroting the same pernicious disinformation that I discussed in my original post: that there’s some legit purpose to hacking Nintendo or Amazon products. There isn’t: it’s criminal computer abuse, period. There’s nothing wrong with the Kindle user experience that would justify the illegal hack.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Doubt me? VSS only came out in 1995, by far the most commonly employed source control system used at that time. (and a right pain in the arse to integrate into bespoke dev-tools due to its shitty error-code handling... but that's another story.)
Irrelevant in the context of preservation, changes made due to licensing only affect commercial usage.
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KyoZz
Tag, you're it.
So what? I haven't turned my Switch on since probably 2 years because I just can't stand 30 FPS and 720p anymore. It gives me a headache for real.
And YES I used emulation to play games I OWN but with a better framerate and in 4K native. What is the problem, does this affect YOUR experience on your Switch?
And even those who don't pay, why do you care? It wont change anything for you so I don't get it. "Yeah fuck those who can't afford a Switch or the games hahaha" <= That's how some of you sound.
Try to think like that next time: culture is important and should be accessible by everyone.
Finally, don't defend corps like Nintendo, they don't need it and they still make A TON of money.
Punished Miku
Gold Member
Does this honestly even need an answer? Is the gaslighting so extreme that now we're all supposed to believe that having any sense of right and wrong at all is irrelevant if you're not directly involved?
This doesn't even deserve a response. If you honestly think this way you're objectively a sociopath.
U n i o n 0015
Member
graywolf323
Member
Guilty_AI
Member
Screw whatever tools were invented then or since, you're vastly underestimating corporate and organizational stupidity
RagnarokIV
Member
Things changed drastically around the start of the PS3/360 era as that was when digital distribution became standard, and the entire industry became more corporate/professional. Its easy to forget than even things as basic as source control weren't universally implemented til the late 90's.
Keep believing that lie! The issue is more about compiler/tool-chain changes making re-building a frustrating process. Not that that sort of effort is really ever justified unless the project is being maintained/re-built/remastered.
What cracks me up about all this is the idea that everyone who downloads or creates a binary image creates back-ups on back-ups of their own in case their hardware fails or is lost!
Just be honest, you don't really give a toss about preservation, you just want to play old games! Noone's judging you for that, its the dishonest way you are portraying your interests that's the problem
I previously made a thread about backing up my own library - https://www.neogaf.com/threads/back...or-personal-preservation-easy-access.1659498/
Since I can't time travel, that existing means that "the dishonest way you are portraying your interests" is debunked.
As for the start of the PS360 era, there's still lost/corrupt code and assets - example
Regardless if things are correctly and well archived (they never are), companies get bought out, merged and taken over. Things move, get lost and disappear.
Then there's other things like the situation with No One Lives Forever - where multiple parties have a finger in the pie and won't cooperate just to spite the other parties involved because what good is getting 70% of a sale if you can block it and make sure others get 0% of a sale.
Mister Wolf
Member
Smart move to get this secure before the Super Switch release.
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
If nintendo doesnt want their games to be emulated maybe they should invest in better hardware and better security. Maybe try "LaTeRaL ThINKinG" with actually up to date tech. just a suggestion
Never see Playstation games getting emulated before release.... unless before release is 10+ years after the fact. And Xbox security is so good that Original Xbox emulation in 2023 is still not up to par, let alone Xenia.
Never see Playstation games getting emulated before release.... unless before release is 10+ years after the fact. And Xbox security is so good that Original Xbox emulation in 2023 is still not up to par, let alone Xenia.
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