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[Alucard]

I love these movies. I really do. After all this time they still hold up well, but over the years I've started picking out things that kind of get to me about the films. A New Hope is cool but I start losing interest about an hour in and then regain it again once the Death Star approach begins. Empire is...well, awesome all the way through. The first half hour of Jedi is wicked too, right up until the Ewoks make their first appearance and totally slow the entire movie down. Then things get cool with the 3 major scenes constantly switching near the end...the battle on Endor, Luke and Vader in Palpatine's chamber, and the space battle headed up by Lando. But then there are more Ewoks and I can't help but bite my lip each time they show up.

Seriously, Jedi could have been far and away the best of the 3 movies if the Ewoks didn't play such a big role, or if they were removed and substituted with a different species. As is, Empire will forever be the poster child of the franchise for me. I mean, you've got the awesome battle on Hoth, Luke training on Dagoba, Han navigating an asteroid field, the imagination of Cloud City, Han being frozen in carbonite, and the classic duel between Luke and Vader. Then the movie just sort of ends without any real closure and leaves you thirsting for more. It's perfect.

I'm sure discussing the original trilogy and talking about Lucas' choices is totally old-hat, but I just felt compelled to post this anyways.

 

[ManaByte]

Jedi has much bigger problems than just the Ewoks.

 

[Alucard]

Jedi has much bigger problems than just the Ewoks.

Do go on.

I can't wait to watch Empire on widescreen DVD. The VHS full screen can really get annoying, especially when trying to read the scrolling text at the start of each movie. Plus, a lot of the scenes look cramped and "incomplete" because of the lack of widescreen. I might have to get the DVD set when it comes out, despite more Lucas tampering.

 

[clipunderground]

I loved Jedi. Wouldn't have changed a thing.

 

[3rdman]

It would have been great if David Lynch had agreed to do ROTJ.

 

[ManaByte]

Do go on.

In Jedi, Han is just along for the ride. He's just there to react to shit and go "whoa, your his sister?". He was a major character in the last two movies, and he is just background noise in Jedi. Hell, Lando has more important things to do than Han like blowing up the Death Star II.

The Tatooine stuff is drawn out way too long.

The stuff on the ground on Endor puts you to sleep.

etc. etc. etc.

 

[Prine]

I loved Jedi. Wouldn't have changed a thing.

exactly! Jedi> Empire> New Hope

 

[ManaByte]

I might have to get the DVD set when it comes out, despite more Lucas tampering.

SE = Superior Editions

 

[ManaByte]

exactly! Jedi> Empire> New Hope

Jedi is on the same level as Episode I, and as such is not even near the same league as Empire (the Greatest Movie Ever Made. Fuck Citizen Kane.)

 

[Alucard]

I loved Jedi. Wouldn't have changed a thing.

I loved most of Jedi. Everything that happens at Jabba's Palace is awesome. Leia coming in to save Han, the big battle at the Sarlac pit, and practically everything else was just great. However, the new musical dance number that was added in is completely pointless. It does absolutely nothing to forward the plot and was probably only added in so Lucas can stroke his ego a little more and say "look what I did." Then the Ewoks show up...and BAM the movie slows to a crawl. Leia's first interaction with one of them had me just waiting for the next scene. Then the big thing with C-3PO being a "god" took forever. Sure, the village looks cool but the things are just so annoying and useless. (yeah, yeah, they helped in the forest battle) Yoda's death was a great scene, and the conflict between Luke, Vader, and Palpatine was fantastic with the massive space battle acting as a back drop.

Okay, so maybe I just really didn't like the Ewoks.

 

[Diomedeskun]

I love Jedi and Empire. Whichever I watched most recently at the time is usually my favorite of the two. I will admit that Empire is virtually perfect and Jedi might have been better with Wookies insetead of Ewoks, as was the original plan.

 

[human5892]

As is, Empire will forever be the poster child of the franchise for me. I mean, you've got the awesome battle on Hoth, Luke training on Dagoba, Han navigating an asteroid field, the imagination of Cloud City, Han being frozen in carbonite, and the classic duel between Luke and Vader. Then the movie just sort of ends without any real closure and leaves you thirsting for more. It's perfect.

I agree. A New Hope feels like it really can't stand on its own as one movie, and the Ewoks in Jedi get old almost as soon as they're introduced. They create too much of a whimsical feel to the movie; when watching the scenes with the Ewok battles, I didn't feel a sense of urgency at all, and I wouldn't have even cared if the Empire managed to secure the Rebel base. This apathy even spilled over a little to the Vader/Skywalker battle, which was otherwise very well-done.

That was the problem with the two prequels -- they throw in cutesy one-liners and too many "wacky" moments, and any serious mood that was being established is thrown out the window. Comic relief -- like the droids in the desert in A New Hope -- is one thing; soiling entire segements or even the whole movie by throwing in stupid crazy characters (do I even need to say Jar-Jar?) or one-liners that are just terrible (pretty much any non-serious statement made in the two prequels) are another.

If the whole series had carried the feel that Empire managed to achieve, I would like it a great deal more than I do today. As it stands, for me, The Empire Strikes back is a bright spot in an otherwise tremendously unbalanced franchise.

 

[ManaByte]

I love Jedi and Empire. Whichever I watched most recently at the time is usually my favorite of the two. I will admit that Empire is virtually perfect and Jedi might have been better with Wookies insetead of Ewoks, as was the original plan.

Well, if they went with the original plan you wouldn't have got that Wookiee battle until Episode IX...

The original plan was to have Vader turn to the Light Side in Episode VI and have him team up with Luke and hunt down the Empire as father and son. Episode IX was to have the massive Wookiee ground battle (which is now in Episode III) and the fall of the Empire. Wookiees would become the next generation of Jedi Knights and the entire saga would be revealed as being played back from the memory banks of a certain droid...

 

[lilraylewis]

AHH! Parenthetical spoiler!

 

[jett]

Jedi is on the same level as Episode I, and as such is not even near the same league as Empire (the Greatest Movie Ever Made. Fuck Citizen Kane.)

You are giving Episode 1 way, WAY too much credit. The battle between Luke and Vader alone put it over TPM. Episode 1 is just an awful, awful movie.

For me its ESB => ROTJ > ANH.

 

[SickBoy]

However, the new musical dance number that was added in is completely pointless. It does absolutely nothing to forward the plot and was probably only added in so Lucas can stroke his ego a little more and say "look what I did."

Note only pointless, but inferior to the technologically lame original scene ...and talk about screwing up the music...

-SB

 

[Warm Machine]

Jedi's story is very simplistic compared to A New Hope and Empire. Even the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones have more interesting storylines with more plot points.

 

[mattx5]

Return Of The Jedi is an awesome achievement, and the inclusion of the Ewoks don't bother me one bit (Unlike the inclusion of Jar Jar in the prequels, ugh).

Nothing can beat out the the final duel between father and son, which is a cinematic hallmark as far as I'm concerned.

Luke Skywalker beating back his own father, sparks flying, lights flashing, Dark Side Beckons booming in the background.

The right to left panning shot in that duel is one of the greatest shots of all time.

And of course, with the new DVDs, Lucas saw fit to ruin the ending to one of the greatest movies of all time, by changing a pivotal scene -

Not the fault of Mr. Christiansen, but definitely the fault of Lucas for thinking that the same emotional impact would remain after replacing the wise, mature Anakin with a grinning boy that looks younger than Luke.

My childhood has been raped

:|

 

[ManaByte]

And of course, with the new DVDs, Lucas saw fit to ruin the ending to one of the greatest movies of all time, by changing a pivotal scene -

Not the fault of Mr. Christiansen, but definitely the fault of Lucas for thinking that the same emotional impact would remain after replacing the wise, mature Anakin with a grinning boy that looks younger than Luke.

My childhood has been raped

:|

EPISODE III SPOILER

Spoiler

Yea, if Anakin dies as his young self it'll make much more sense for him to appear all old as a Jedi Spirit even though he died when he was young.

 

[mattx5]

I know all about that, but why did Lucas even have to write that crap in? And not only that, but he's changing the OT to fit the PT!

Wrong!

I can live with every other change except for the new 'spirits' shot.

Ugh, as soon as the DVDs come out, I'm going to make my own custom version of Star Wars. Everything from the new DVDs except for the 'spirits' scene. I'll get that from the Laserdiscs....

 

[Mama Smurf]

Manabyte you asshole, you've already put a spoiler in this thread without marking it.

 

[Great Wasabi Man]

the only thing I didn't like about Jedi was Storm Troopers are uber ellet troopers of the sci-fi equivilant to the Nazi's, the empire can destroy planets, and cast a shadow of fear where ever they go...yet OMG look out teddy bears tossing rocks what can we do with our LASERS!!! Run away....Run Away!

 

[Great Wasabi Man]

EPISODE III SPOILER

Spoiler

Yea, if Anakin dies as his young self it'll make much more sense for him to appear all old as a Jedi Spirit even though he died when he was young.

Spoiler

my only problem with that is that Vader finds the good in himself and saves luke then dies...if he has no soul and turly died when he was younger,the vader suit was just keeping his body alive, how did a machine feel the bond between father and son and trun on the emperor? A new Jedia power L337 h4XX0r?

 

[Prospero]

ESB is the only one of these movies that I'd bother to watch these days. It has the best production design out of all three films, the best visual effects sequences from an aesthetic standpoint, the best musical score, the best screenplay BY FAR, and Vader isn't the second-string bad guy of A New Hope, or the weak cardboard villain of ROTJ--in ESB he's an absolute psychopath.

When the new DVD trilogy comes out, I'll pull out my vintage VHS widescreen version of ESB and watch it--that'll satisfy me.

 

[ManaByte]

Manabyte you asshole, you've already put a spoiler in this thread without marking it.

It's not really a spoiler when Lucasfilm made it a major point of their presentation to, oh, 7,000 people at Comic Con.

Oh, and Anakin Skywalker is really Darth Vader. OMGWTF.

 

[MonkeyBoy]

i remeber that i used to whine and complain about the puppets and ewoks, but when comparing the original trilogy with the new trilogy, return of the jedi is awsome! no complaints. it doesent really matter anyway, none of this really matters.

 

[Alucard]

i remeber that i used to whine and complain about the puppets and ewoks, but when comparing the original trilogy with the new trilogy, return of the jedi is awsome! no complaints. it doesent really matter anyway, none of this really matters.

What do you mean it doesn't really matter? Arguing about movies and such? I'll agree with you there, in the grand scheme of things. Still, this is a message board. People don't have much else to do other than discuss and argue their opinions. *shrugs*

Loved the Vader and Luke fight, but the forest battle had me fighting sleep.

 

[The Shadow]

I'm sure discussing the original trilogy and talking about Lucas' choices is totally old-hat, but I just felt compelled to post this anyways.

Coincidentally, me and a friend watched the original (non-special edition) just last night. We probably would have watched all three but it was getting late by the time it was over, around 1am.

I must have watched this movie 20-30 times already. So much so that I even knew were the commercial break would occur if it was being broadcast.

I'm really, really glad I was able to get ahold of the bootleg laserdisk > DVD rips.

 

[Mama Smurf]

It's not really a spoiler when Lucasfilm made it a major point of their presentation to, oh, 7,000 people at Comic Con.

Oh, and Anakin Skywalker is really Darth Vader. OMGWTF.

One of those revelations has already been shown in the films. One hasn't. See the difference?

And of course it's a spoiler! Who cares how many people have seen it, for those of us avoiding spoilers, telling us parts of the plot before the movie is out is a spoiler. I avoid Ep. III topics for that reason, and I don't go into Star Wars topics where I'm not entirely sure that won't be discussed. In original trilogy threads though, spoiler things for films not out. It's not like you don't know how to or that you should, you managed to tag something else up there.

 

[ManaByte]

One of those revelations has already been shown in the films. One hasn't. See the difference?

And of course it's a spoiler! Who cares how many people have seen it, for those of us avoiding spoilers, telling us parts of the plot before the movie is out is a spoiler. I avoid Ep. III topics for that reason, and I don't go into Star Wars topics where I'm not entirely sure that won't be discussed. In original trilogy threads though, spoiler things for films not out. It's not like you don't know how to or that you should, you managed to tag something else up there.

The major spoiler I blacked out, if you highlighted that it's your own fucking fault. Wookiees in Episode III has been a known point for a long long long long time before the title was ever announced. If you wanted to avoid hearing about Wookiees in Episode III you would have to not watch any TV from November to May, not go to any movie from November to May, or look at any Star Wars videogame from November to May. Hell, you'd have to avoid Starwars.com as they are pimping their "Wookiees on the Webcam" like crazy there. Fuck, the first official news of Episode III casting revolved around the Wookiees.

 

[Tool]

Here's an Episode III spoiler:

Spoiler

It's gonna suck real bad.

 

[Mama Smurf]

The major spoiler I blacked out, if you highlighted that it's your own fucking fault. Wookiees in Episode III has been a known point for a long long long long time before the title was ever announced. If you wanted to avoid hearing about Wookiees in Episode III you would have to not watch any TV from November to May, not go to any movie from November to May, or look at any Star Wars videogame from November to May. Hell, you'd have to avoid Starwars.com as they are pimping their "Wookiees on the Webcam" like crazy there.

I didn't highlight the spoiler, I don't know why you think I would have.

Seeing as this wookie thing has been known so long and I haven't heard it before this thread, don't you think I could have made it to seeing the film without hearing it either? I managed to see Spider-Man 2 without knowing ANYTHING about it other than that Doc Ock was the bad guy. I managed not to see a single trailer for it, but posters are harder to avoid.

Look, it's no skin off your back to spoiler tag things regarding films not yet out. But for me, it really can ruin a film. Perhaps people who don't much care about spoilers (or even like them) can't understand that, but just believe me when I say it's true. Obviously I have no power to force you to do it, but it'd be nice if you would.

 

[ManaByte]

I didn't highlight the spoiler, I don't know why you think I would have.

Seeing as this wookie thing has been known so long and I haven't heard it before this thread, don't you think I could have made it to seeing the film without hearing it either? I managed to see Spider-Man 2 without knowing ANYTHING about it other than that Doc Ock was the bad guy. I managed not to see a single trailer for it, but posters are harder to avoid.

Look, it's no skin off your back to spoiler tag things regarding films not yet out. But for me, it really can ruin a film. Perhaps people who don't much care about spoilers (or even like them) can't understand that, but just believe me when I say it's true. Obviously I have no power to force you to do it, but it'd be nice if you would.

I normally do, but the Wookiee Episode III thing is such well-known knowledge since Lucasfilm is using that to hype the movie that I normally don't black it out.

As I said, you need to find a nice dark cave and move into it until May if you don't want to know anything about Wookiees in Episode III. It's going to be everywhere since Lucasfilm wants to use that to promote the movie in a big way.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Well fair enough then, if it's like Doc Ock I guess I can't avoid that. I just don't know what I'm gonna be able to avoid almost a year before release.

 

[ManaByte]

Hell, just today starwarsshop.com put up the first wave of pre-Episode III figures for pre-order and one is a Wookiee. There's no way to avoid it.

 

[jett]

Spoiler

my only problem with that is that Vader finds the good in himself and saves luke then dies...if he has no soul and turly died when he was younger,the vader suit was just keeping his body alive, how did a machine feel the bond between father and son and trun on the emperor? A new Jedia power L337 h4XX0r?

Exactly, if

Spoiler

Anakin is "dead" there is no way Vader could've felt the a father-son bond with Luke. Even worse, somehow this "machine" turns to the light side at the end. I've read about how Anakin "dies", and it just seems unnecessary.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Spoiler

The spirit was living in the corpse of Vader (half machine, half Anakin) thanks to the Force

.

 

[ManaByte]

For the SW DVD set...final proof that Stormtrooper are clones...Stormtrooper voices have been redubbed by Temura Morrison. So he redubbed all of the Stormtrooper lines as well as Boba Fett's lines.

 

[yoshifumi]

i love the big battle on endor in jedi even with the ewoks.

 

[Dan]

I don't really understand why he's bothering to do those new voices with Morrison. What does that mean for the Academy that Biggs went to and Luke wanted to go to? Are only Stormtroopers clones and not TIE pilots? Lucas is only making this relatively straightforward series overly complicated by retroactively changing entire concepts and side references.

Spoiler

And I've heard about the apparent ability for Palpatine to suddenly tell all the Clonetroopers to turn on their Jedi commanders and whatever in RotS but I'm not sure why that capability would be needed 30 years later.

Ugh. He's just making things too complex and really removing people's ability to suspend disbelief. It's one thing to have this space age civilization with essentially wizards using magic, but he's pushing past that limit with some of this.

 

[ManaByte]

I don't really understand why he's bothering to do those new voices with Morrison. What does that mean for the Academy that Biggs went to and Luke wanted to go to? Are only Stormtroopers clones and not TIE pilots? Lucas is only making this relatively straightforward series overly complicated by retroactively changing entire concepts and side references.

Spoiler

And I've heard about the apparent ability for Palpatine to suddenly tell all the Clonetroopers to turn on their Jedi commanders and whatever in RotS but I'm not sure why that capability would be needed 30 years later.

Ugh. He's just making things too complex and really removing people's ability to suspend disbelief. It's one thing to have this space age civilization with essentially wizards using magic, but he's pushing past that limit with some of this.

Luke and Biggs wanted to go to the Imperial Academy to become Imperial Navy Officers, which are human and not clones. You don't go to the Academy to become cannon fodder. Stormtroopers are Clones, as are TIE Pilots as they are just a continuation of the Clone pilots from the Clone Wars.

Spoiler

Imperial Navy Officers are also seen in Episode III in one of the final scenes.

And Sidious' ability (the Emperor is officially named Darth Sidious as per Lucas - Palpatine was just the disguise) to control the Stormtroopers is crucial even 30 years later to maintain control.

 

[Alucard]

If the original intent of the new trilogy was to tie up loose ends and plot holes, I think it's having the complete opposite effect.

For one, how come in Jedi Obi-Wan tells Luke that his father was a great pilot before he even met him, but in Episode 1 Anakin is just a useless kid when he meets Obi-Wan? I mean, come on now...

 

[ManaByte]

If the original intent of the new trilogy was to tie up loose ends and plot holes, I think it's having the complete opposite effect.

For one, how come in Jedi Obi-Wan tells Luke that his father was a great pilot before he even met him, but in Episode 1 Anakin is just a useless kid when he meets Obi-Wan? I mean, come on now...

Yea, he was the only human pilot who could drive a Pod Racer

 

[Dan]

Spoiler

And Sidious' ability (the Emperor is officially named Darth Sidious as per Lucas - Palpatine was just the disguise) to control the Stormtroopers is crucial even 30 years later to maintain control.

Spoiler

How so? What part of the original trilogy requires Sidious having that control? As far as I can tell - if this is true - his use of clones and mind control only results in a lot of useless troops who are as inaccurate with a blaster as possible and never once really win a battle or encounter by their own doing.

This just reeks of Lucas changing his mind about how he made the films originally and now he's trying to shove a square peg into a round hole.

 

[Boogie]

No use arguing with Manabyte, he's the biggest Lucas apologist here

 

[DrForester]

Problems with Jedi:

HOOPER
Don't make me bust a cap in your ass,
yo! Jedi's the most insulting
installment, because Vader's
beautiful, black visage is
sullied when he pulls off his mask to
reveal a feeble, crusty white man!
They're trying to tell us that deep
inside, we all want to be white!

BANKY
Well isn't that true!

DANTE
All Jedi Had Was A bunch Of Muppets

Now all we need is the updated script for Empire:


Obi Won:
You must go to Degobah, and train with Yoda, the jedi master who instructed my master's master.

 

[Spectral Glider]

I still prefer A New Hope over Empire over Jedi. Nothing beats that intro of the troopers blasting through the door and then Vader materializing out from the wafting smoke.....awesome, awesome, awesome. A New Hope also has more Alec Guiness, which is always a good thing. I much rather Han and Leia bitching amongst all the sexual tension over the syrupy sap that gets poured around by the end of Empire. Granted, it works simply because Ford was smart enough to know George's writing needed some ad-libbing. And stuff like C3PO cursing his metal body at the end of the trash compactor scene, that's the subtle comedy that Lucas no longer has.

Which reminds me of another area where the new movies fail miserably. There's so much more character development between just two damn droids in the beginning of this series that when R2 gets blasted at the end, you feel either great disappointment or get pissed off. Aside from Qui-Gon, all these new characters could get wiped out and I wouldn't give a second thought to them.

 

[MoxManiac]

I must be the only one who hates Star Wars. Seriously, my whole family loved them ever since they came out, but I never could get into them, despite being a fan of Sci-Fi. :/

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

And of course, with the new DVDs, Lucas saw fit to ruin the ending to one of the greatest movies of all time, by changing a pivotal scene -

:|

omg...this makes me not want to buy the DVDs now..WTF!

 

[Rocket Punch]

Does the new Ewok celebration scene with Christiensen make it into the new DVDs coming out this November??? Are people gonna get this? I'm still wondering if I should wait for the whole 6-pack for the ultimate edition.