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[Sander Cohen]

Tomb Raider, TLOU, Horizon are just a few examples of games (I know there are more but these stuck to me) I played this gen where you’re made to believe that physically significantly weaker sex can overpower hordes of men like they are joke. I don’t mind having female leads but it does create huge ludonarrative dissonance in my head.

So I’m playing modern Tomb Raider for the first time since it‘s PS Plus monthly game and notion that she can just strangle big muscle men with her bow like it’s nothing is absurd. It doesn’t work. I know people will mention how it’s also not realistic that Nathan Drake can gun down hundreds of people in his games but I think about it this way: if he can win in a single gunfight against 1 man it’s realistic in people’s minds that he can win in multiple ones.
Now, chances of any female winning in a single fight against physically larger and stronger men in real life is very small. Maybe through some trick or cleverness but not likely. Yet you can see what Ellie does or Lara or Alloy or anyone else.

I’m not emphasizing skill with guns because, obviously, females can be almost just as good there (although also not likely) or in cases where your enemies are zombies like in Resident Evil or similar games.

My point is, yes, make games with female leads as much as you like (though vast majority of AAA gamers are male) but put them in realistic scenarios that don’t always necessarily have to include melee violence because it just feels off.

 

[Thicc Enigma]

Userbanned: (duration pending) sexist comments in a sensitive topic, prior severe infractions

 

[IntentionalPun]

Who cares?

Plenty of games have male leads who aren't muscle men, who then are able to defeat huge muscle men in the same way.

99% of games aren't attempting to be realistic simulations.

 

[Night.Ninja]

Steroids from Guatemala

 

[Kdad]

Someone trained in combat and in condition will wipe the floor with 99% of the untrained population regardless of their gender or size. Embrace your weakness.

Also...you're playing a GAME not a life simulator FFS

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Games are pretend.

The bigger issue is demanding that females can be just as effective in combat as males, and screeching/doxxing/boycotting whenever the product does not match your arbitrary standards.

 

[Hudo]

Androids are more effective then humans, though.

 

[Spaceman292]

Old Man Yells at Cloud

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Now, chances of any female winning in a single fight against physically larger and stronger men in real life is very small. Maybe through some trick or cleverness but not likely. Yet you can see what Ellie does or Lara or Alloy or anyone else.

How old are you OP? Video games are not real life.

 

[V2Tommy]

Any woman than can pull herself up a cliff thousands of times is going to kick your ass.

 

[AV]

You don't have a problem with a protag easily murdering 500 people across the course of the game, getting hit with bullets constantly, making inhuman jumps and falls as long as it's a man doing it?

I don't think the problem is the game.

 

[Sethbacca]

Are we just supposed to accept that a single man going up against an entire army is able to defeat them but not that a female character can kick ass? Games are pretend. Don't take them so seriously.

 

[Jon Neu]

The problem is that feminists have a big inferiority complex regarding to males, so they have to pretend at all costs that females are as strong as males.

There was a time in which being a strong woman meant much more than being just a literally physically strong person, but those nuances are sexist, apparently.

You don't have a problem with a protag easily murdering 500 people across the course of the game, getting hit with bullets constantly, making inhuman jumps and falls as long as it's a man doing it?

I don't think the problem is the game.

Those are just the mechanics of videogames. It would be silly to defeat 3 enemies and ending the game there.

But yes, it's incredibly far more believable to have a man doing it than to have a let's say; a toddler.

 

[SleepDoctor]

Had Her Walking Like Bambi: Karen Gets The Soul Slapped Out Her For Stepping Up To The Wrong One!

Her azz started walking on her ankles.. Posted by JR

m.worldstarhiphop.com

Abby vs Joel irl lol

Don't know how to embed videos from ws.

 

[HarryKS]

The problem is that feminists have a big inferiority complex regarding to males, so they have to pretend at all costs that females are as strong as males.

There was a time in which being a strong woman meant much more than being just a literally physically strong person, but those nuances are sexist, apparently.




Those are just the mechanics of videogames. It would be silly to defeat 3 enemies and ending the game there.

But yes, it's incredibly far more believable to have a man doing it than to have a let's say; a toddler.

It's not a man.

 

[Sander Cohen]

I agree with “games are games, don’t take them too seriously“ stance but at the same time current trend is hyper realism because many people tune out if it’s not realistic in AAA. Yes, they are still games but they are also more realistic than ever and it will only get better from here. So, that argument is kinda on shaky legs in this age.

 

[Thugnificient]

Is this what we call irony?

I'm not sure if OP is being flippant.

 

[TheContact]

This woman could kick the shit out of a lot of guys. There's plenty of women out there that would fare better in combat than a man would. If all things were equal, probably not, but not everything in life is equal. Besides that, it's a video game, not real life. Some suspension of disbelief is required to have a good time.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Its not games that give the wrong impression on this subject matter, its the movies.

Seeing some 5ft 1in 120lb female movie star kick the shit out some 6ft 2in 220lb muscle, is going to lead to all sorts of life disapointment for young girls watching.

 

[JimiNutz]

While I get what you're saying I literally give ZERO fucks because it's videogames and they are all (outside of sims) inherently absurd and unrealistic

If I was playing a super realistic racing sim and suddenly my car grew a pair of wings and flew off then maybe I'd care a little bit (although that would also be kind of awesome).

 

[synchronicity]

Who cares?

Plenty of games have male leads who aren't muscle men, who then are able to defeat huge muscle men in the same way.

99% of games aren't attempting to be realistic simulations.

Yeah, games are fantasy in the first place. And often the more absurd the better imho. Just look at Platinum.

 

[Jon Neu]

This woman could kick the shit out of a lot of guys. There's plenty of women out there that would fare better in combat than a man would. If all things were equal, probably not, but not everything in life is equal. Besides that, it's a video game, not real life. Some suspension of disbelief is required to have a good time.

The most competitive women in their respective sports have been utterly destroyed by the worst men in their respective sports. That woman would be utterly destroyed by the worst fighters of the men division.

People in this times seem to really underestimate the incredible amount of sheer strength, athleticism and resistance difference between women and men.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

I agree with “games are games, don’t take them too seriously“ stance but at the same time current trend is hyper realism because many people tune out if it’s not realistic in AAA. Yes, they are still games but they are also more realistic than ever and it will only get better from here. So, that argument is kinda on shaky legs in this age.

Sorry, but what about Tomb Raider is hyper realistic can i ask? I think you're confusing graphics with gameplay, because nothing about the game is realistic other than the envrionment and graphics. TLOU as well, set in a post zombie apocolypse world is realistic with mutant beings walking around? Yeah, cause that happens all the time here, sick of them damn zombies.

 

[Grinchy]

I generally don't have any issue with it because the characters we play already do inhuman things no matter what sex they are. If Nathan Drake can climb ropes and rocks for 30 minutes straight before running 4 miles and then getting into a fight with 12 armed guards, then I can buy into a supernaturally strong woman as well.

 

[AV]

Those are just the mechanics of videogames. It would be silly to defeat 3 enemies and ending the game there.
But yes, it's incredibly far more believable to have a man doing it than to have a let's say; a toddler.

The thread isn't about toddlers. If your concern about the """realism""" in video games stems from whether or not it's a male or female performing literally impossible feats, you aren't concerned about realism at all, you've got a stick up your ass about thuh essjaydubya agenda, let's be honest.

 

[Mihos]

I read comic books for the realism

 

[Jon Neu]

The thread isn't about toddlers.

The principle is the same. Ellie or Dina are incredibly much more weaker than a man.

If your concern about the """realism""" in video games stems from whether or not it's a male or female performing literally impossible feats, you aren't concerned about realism at all, you've got a stick up your ass about thuh essjaydubya agenda, let's be honest.

My concern is criticizing an obvious politically charged design decision when I see it. Yours is criticize anybody who criticizes the essjaydubya agenda.

 

[BabyfaceRe]

Tbh this is only true when your talking about raw strength/power, everything else is a wash. Your example of Lara choking someone from behind with a bow string is pretty damn realistic, not sure if you've ever been choked out before but if someone is squeezing down on your carotid artery you go out in seconds, especially if you're caught unawares.

Aloy uses ranged weapons almost exclusively, this negates any argument about 1 v 1 strength.

Ellie consistently struggles with being out-muscled its literally a part of her game play loop and is contrasted very well by the other playable character that is visually more muscular than her and utilises that strength in a way Ellie literally can't.

"I’m not emphasizing skill with guns because, obviously, females can be almost just as good there (although also not likely) or in cases where your enemies are zombies like in Resident Evil or similar games."

And this is the kicker, why on earth would you think that women are biologically worse with guns than men? That's based on absolutely nothing.

 

[Kev Kev]

 

[Bernkastel]

Realism is the last thing I care about when interacting with a visual medium. I can always experience the real world around me, but now I would want to experience something you cant in real life or an ideal reality(more on that later). So, when playing Valkyrie Chronicles, I dont think "Hey, in real life girls with skirts wont be in battlefield". But when a game tries to be a sim for certain aspect of life, I would now want it my ideal reality not the game makers, I would want it to be tailored to my tastes. So OP cant police on whether I like how a social aspect of life is depicted on video games or not.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

Who cares?

 

[Fbh]

I honestly don't care, I don't go to games for realism and I tend find most games that aim for realism to be boring.
I have no problem suspending my disbelief when it comes to what Lara or Ellie do , same way I don't care that Drake doesn't end up in a Wheelchair after most of his stunts and falls.

It only bothers me when there's a clear contrast between characters in cutscenes and in-game. Like in the first Tomb Raider reboot where for like half of the game cutscenes depic Lara as this afraid girl stranded on an island.....and then it switches to gameplay and you go shotgun blast people in the face for 30 minutes.

 

[Sander Cohen]

Sorry, but what about Tomb Raider is hyper realistic can i ask? I think you're confusing graphics with gameplay, because nothing about the game is realistic other than the envrionment and graphics. TLOU as well, set in a post zombie apocolypse world is realistic with mutant beings walking around? Yeah, cause that happens all the time here, sick of them damn zombies.

Being realistic doesn’t necessarily mean that it exists in our current world. It can portray what can happen or some alternate history. Unearthing some old artifacts sounds realistic enough. TLOU is set in post-apocalyptic world. Can apocalypse happen in our world? Well, yes it can (doesn’t matter what type of apocalypse are we talking about). So can deadly virus happen etc.

Fantasy games are not realistic because there are unimaginable stuff like magic, alien races, monsters etc.

 

[Kdad]

Its not games that give the wrong impression on this subject matter, its the movies.

Seeing some 5ft 1in 120lb female movie star kick the shit out some 6ft 2in 220lb muscle, is going to lead to all sorts of life disapointment for young girls watching.

You can be 6'2" 220lbs of muscle (in fact I am) and still fight like a god damn pansy...being a lunkhead doesn't mean you have hand to hand combat training.

I'm not fighting anyone of any gender or weight class because I'm not trained in combat and would get my ass kicked within a minute.

 

[Jon Neu]

Tbh this is only true when your talking about raw strength/power, everything else is a wash.

Strenght/power means you are far more athletic, far more fast, far more resistent, far more coordinated, etc...

It's an enourmous advantadge in basically almost every field of an adventure game. Yes, in shooting while moving too.

The harsh truth is: women simply can't compete with men in any physical activity. There's just too much of a difference.

 

[Davey Cakes]

Power fantasies are for everyone.

 

[mejin]

Dude, they are just games. lol

 

[AV]

My concern is criticizing an obvious politically charged design decision when I see it. Yours is criticize anybody who criticizes the essjaydubya agenda.

I don't at all, only the people that criticise it where it doesn't exist. You're boxing shadows. How in the ungodly fuck is Lara Croft being able to dominate men a "politically charged design decision"? She's the playable character, she's been doing it for almost 25 years. It's just looking for something to be angry about for the sake of it.

 

[LazyParrot]

My point is, yes, make games with female leads as much as you like (though vast majority of AAA gamers are male) but put them in realistic scenarios that don’t always necessarily have to include melee violence because it just feels off.

You realize that pretty much every game featuring melee combat is wildly unrealistic no matter the gender of the protagonist, right?

 

[Birdo]

In a modern setting, I don't really mind. It's goofy, but meh. Power fantasy and all.

In historical settings, it really bothers me. It's happening a lot in tv/film too. Women charging on a battlefield. It's stupid and it takes me out of the moment. It did not happen. Period.

 

[Trogdor1123]

Someone trained in combat and in condition will wipe the floor with 99% of the untrained population regardless of their gender or size. Embrace your weakness.

Also...you're playing a GAME not a life simulator FFS

Was going to say this as well. Training makes such a difference in most things in life.

 

[LeftThumbstick]

Being realistic doesn’t necessarily mean that it exists in our current world. It can portray what can happen or some alternate history. Unearthing some old artifacts sounds realistic enough. TLOU is set in post-apocalyptic world. Can apocalypse happen in our world? Well, yes it can (doesn’t matter what type of apocalypse are we talking about). So can deadly virus happen etc.

Fantasy games are not realistic because there are unimaginable stuff like magic, alien races, monsters etc.

You are so disingenous that it hurts.

First, not just as simple as "unearthing artfiacts". It's a fictional story about a rich girl who happens to be a trained athlete, explorer and fighter who fights animals, people and unearths these magical artifacts than seem to make buildings crumble when picked up. It's completely unrealistic if you look at it in context, not out of context like you are making it out be.

You also conveniently left out the "zombie" part of the TLOU comparison. Yes, a real world post-apocolypse scenario could happen in the way of natural disaster, chemical poisoning or some kind of man made mistake, but not zombies. Canibals probably, Zombies, no.

These games are a fantasy scenario, completely made up by some writer/game dev and at the end, they are just games. Such a weird thing to be hung up on is how you feel demasculinated by the depiction of women who can fight, in games.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Yeah it can look very unrealistic in some games, especially when it comes to climbing and melee combat where physical strength is very important. But I guess it's a better option to pretend than to have more female characters looking like Abby.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah because a man can rip apart dinobots who weight tons with his bare hands and doesn't get tired fighting machines right?! same for every type of demon, monsters, creatures, enhanced soldiers etc, have you ever seen an horror movie when a regular soldier doesn't get shredded to pieces by monsters?? (if he's not the protagonist of course)

Let's just say that besides very realistic scenario with a limited number of human enemies, every menace in videgames would be too much to handle even for a navy seal even if he is 100% more stronger and durable than a woman.

 

[hyperbertha]

I don't have a problem suspending disbelief watching women beat men in media. My problem is using that with toxic intentions like some modern games media.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Gender is irrelevant. Experience, training, equipment...these are the things that make for an effective combatant.

Steroids from Guatemala

...she's probably like, 200% better in fight than the majority of the folks on this forum. Conservatively.

 

[Woopah]

In a modern setting, I don't really mind. It's goofy, but meh. Power fantasy and all.

In historical settings, it really bothers me. It's happening a lot in tv/film too. Women charging on a battlefield. It's stupid and it takes me out of the moment. It did not happen. Period.

It was definitely rare but women fighting in wars is something that has happened many times throughout history.

In response to the OP, your stance that gaming protagonists are only allowed to do unrealistic things as long as it's not women doing them to men is odd.

I mean, your issue with Horizon isn't that someone is defeating giant robot dinosaurs but that someone is defeating men. Why?

 

[EverydayBeast]

Males are more powerful no argument that's why there's male and female sports leagues the gap is MASSIVE, teenager boys are stronger than adult females.

 

[Soulja]

When are we going to stop pretending that people can recover from multiple gun wounds just by hiding away from gun fire for 5 seconds.

Its just a game.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Absolutely hilarious given that in a lot games, characters can have things like:
- regen health
- unlimited stamina
- magical weird powers
- and so many other unrealistic skills/mechanics that are there for gameplay purposes.

I don't understand that having a female lead doing unbelievable things pushes things too far.