• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Where do you stand on No Man's Sky?

But what's that exploration worth if every planet feels the same? You're not gonna meet many, if any, people in the game, the game is that vast, which sounds impressive, but everyone of of them is roughly gonna have the same experience playing the game on samey planets. My main issue is I realised this from the get-go and the illusion doesn't work on me. I want exploration to be meaningful, I don't want to pay a game constantly aware of the game-mechanics like with this (Bethesda games are the same btw).
"The illusion doesn't work on me"
"I want exploration to be meaningful"

This isn't a magic trick. You haven't even played the game yet. Sounds more like you're already biased in what the game is and will be and how it play, without giving their engine or tech a chance to prove itself. Especially when they specially tweaked the engine to only show certain kinds of species and planets for demos and footages

I mean, can you imagine going to see a movie like Revenant or The Raid or The Thing or LOTR or whatever and just thinking "Oh great, yup, it's all fake. I know it's all just CGI and perspective and stunts and sets. The illusion won't work on me"
 
Still not sure what type of game it is.. you just explore and gather stuff? If it reminds me any bit of minecraft im staying away. Any videos I watch I see no objective or reason.
 

SomTervo

Member
Still not sure what type of game it is.. you just explore and gather stuff? If it reminds me any bit of minecraft im staying away. Any videos I watch I see no objective or reason.

On the very previous page:

There are a bunch of written hands-on previews by journalists from early May. I recommend reading those. Very enlightening and have interjections from the devs explaining stuff. In short:

- your 'objective' is to reach the center of the galaxy. When you open up the starmap you can see all nearby systems but also a 'breadcrumb trail', a gold line showing you the most direct route to the center
- the devs are very secretive about what is there, so we don't really know if it's a maguffin or if it will have meaningful content (presumably the latter, TBH. You don't give players a massive objective like that and then make it nothing but the credits. There are sketchy rumours that it opens up a whole new set of gameplay mechanics)
- you start on the outer edge of the galaxy with low-tech gear. To get anywhere you need better engines, more fuel. To get these items/upgrades you need to hunt for resources, survive dangerous weather/animals, etc (this is the beginning of the 'what you do' gameplay loop)
- the closer you get to the center of the galaxy the more dangerous planets and space-faring races become. Planets will be more toxic (poison atmospheres, high radiation, freezing/extreme heat), and have more dangerous wildlife. So you need to keep upgrading your weapons, suit and ship to survive here. You can't just fly along merrily to the end of the game. You'll die repeatedly if you do. The devs are dedicated to making the game challenging (see my quote above to eXistor)
- reaching the center could take anywhere from 50-200 hours, or forever if you weren't interested and just wanted to explore
- there are a bunch of hand-crafted (ie non-random) space-faring races who you can enter dialogue with, who have faction affiliations, etc. Build up affiliation with them and you can have good trade. Kill them and you can steal their stuff but aggro other race members. They have buildings on planets you can break into, destroy, gain access to through dialogue. There are hints you can hire positive-affiliation race members as wingmen for more fire support. Different races are at war across the galaxy and these battles are just dynamically happening of their own accord

So as a player you have the choice to:
- just muck about in an endless, unique universe exploring and finding cool shit
- aim for the center of the galaxy to 'beat the game' and see what happens (will still lead to a long, hard adventure)
- join forces with an alien faction and take part in the galactic war

Ofc, you're basically making your own fun either way. Unless there's some really game-changing shit at the center of the galaxy.

Edit: and ofc none of it might come together and the game might still be shit
 

forms

Member
The game will finally release in August (hopefully). Has been delayed multiple times, no show at E3 this year and a lawsuit settled recently. Their website was last updated in May with the IGN preview. Things aren't looking good for them.

I feel like the game will be mediocre at best.I hope I'm wrong because the game lloks great and the potential is huge.

Are you asking if we are for or against? :D

I am for.
 

kyser73

Member
The game isn't all about just looking at things. It has other very concrete, more "traditional" gameplay systems that you can have fun with in a procedurally generated universe. I have tons of fun doing stuff in minecraft's procedurally generated seeds, and they way NMS handles procedural generation is way more interesting than minecraft for me. From what we know of their engine, which they haven't exactly been secretive about, NMS's generation process is more complex than just mixing around presets and changing colors like the robots you've presented show anyway.

Don't bother Icey, he's not worth it.

It might be shit. It might not work. The core gameplay loop might not be satisfying and the endless amount of procedurally generated content might turn out to be not-at-all compelling.

However, if you do plenty of reading about it, hands-on previews etc, it sounds like the core gameplay loop does work, and it is going to be fantastic. So day one for me based on the promise.

Beware: The amount of misinformation and misunderstanding about the game is staggering.

I haven't read through the thread yet, I'm just replying straight, but I'd put money on that cool_dude is already in here trolling about the game and keeping his head in the sand.



The closer you get to the center of the galaxy the more different the planets will feel.

Laws of physics will break. Planet layouts and shapes will break. Creature types and algorithms will break.

Closer to the center of the galaxy becomes infinitely more dangerous, surreal, and disturbing as you proceed. It'll get legit hard.

PS Have you heard the quotes from Sean saying that exploration has to be meaningful? Quote:

Yup, same old schtick about variety & the colour of grass.

I only know this because he was quoted...
 
I've said it since the game was announced; Procedural generated worlds don't necessarily mean anything.

I remember Besthesda touted that Oblivion was so vast and detailed it was impossible to do it by hand. But if you explore that world, you'd have to agree that something was lost. Yes, Oblivion looks like a realistic forest with realistic hills, rivers and everything, but it lacks the expert world building of Morrowind, or Ocarina of Time or World of Warcraft. Where every rock and tree has been created by designers.

I'm only saying this because I saw posters in the past arguing that the games vastness will never make it boring. Because it's endless. But terrain variety can still be unique constantly, yet still boring, if you figure out how the sausage is made.
And that goes for the creatures and everything too. Spore was a good example of how something can be unique every time, but still come up short.

But my own real concern has always been that there wasn't going to be any real meaningful or challenging combat. No space flying or action shooting or platform jumping that lets you improve your skills. Nothing to get better at. If it's a estatic journey like Flower, Flow or Journey, that is fine. But I don't see that as something that can have as much replay value as what the hype has been lead to believe.



And that really is the thing. NMS is already a victim to the insane hype contained within gamers who don't really ask what is lost for NMS to have the feature set it has. Every game is a compromise, and I think personally that NMS might be a 1-10 hour game for most people. The mechanics seems more to be a excuse than something that has difficult enemies, or stuff like that, so it comes up to want to explore these procedural worlds. the worlds will change in tilesets, as will the creatures and fauna, and that is fine, but how much. How many. And how unique will ever world and creature respond your standard laser beam weapon.
NMS is a game like Universim ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU9Yg1ZtFd0 ) in that the potential for endless worlds is immense, but execution is going to be very hard. I hope for the best.


I don't expect NMS to reinvent the wheel. I think fanboys damaged this game by hyping it up so much. It should be more seen as an experiment than this declaration of a new era of gaming with its never ending game. I feel the IGN previews really showed the limited scope of the game. It's a indie game made by a small team. It's not Star Citizen, yet people almost treat it as such.
 
"The illusion doesn't work on me"
"I want exploration to be meaningful"

This isn't a magic trick. You haven't even played the game yet. Sounds more like you're already biased in what the game is and will be and how it play, without giving their engine or tech a chance to prove itself. Especially when they specially tweaked the engine to only show certain kinds of species and planets for demos and footages

I mean, can you imagine going to see a movie like Revenant or The Raid or The Thing or LOTR or whatever and just thinking "Oh great, yup, it's all fake. I know it's all just CGI and perspective and stunts and sets. The illusion won't work on me"

You're comparing carefully handcrafted scenes from movies like lotr to randomly generated content? really?
 
You're comparing carefully handcrafted scenes from movies like lotr to randomly generated content? really?
The point is not comparing the actual works, but the notion of going into something with this mechanical cynical mindset of "seeing through the illusion" or "that it won't work on me" or whatnot, from the outset, rather than, you know, enjoying what's there and how it's presented and forming your opinion based on that
 

oneils

Member
Can you elaborate? What's not well executed?

Shooting, ship building, exploration on planets, space travel. They are all in the game, but they don't seem to be that well done to me. And the ps4 edition seems to have issues with draw distances.

Edit: that doesn't necessarily mean it will be a bad game. Maybe it will be really fun, despite its flaws. I just don't know. That's why I'm cautious about it.
 

MrS

Banned
Not going to buy it and don't understand the hype - hope it's good for those who are going to buy it though. All of the game footage I've seen left me underwhelmed.
 

Mailbox

Member
I'm excited, but I probably won't be picking it up day one. My ps4 died lately, so i need to save up some money to get a new one and there are a ton of games between September and February that take priority.

I'm expecting it to be good, and for the "but what do you do" crowd to never shut up.


You're comparing carefully handcrafted scenes from movies like lotr to randomly generated content? really?

the point just flew right over your head didn't it?

also NMS isn't "random generation" but rather procedural. Tons of variables are used to make the planet you went to the same planet after you leave and come back. Its not some super random mishmosh.
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Shooting, ship building, exploration on planets, space travel. They are all in the game, but they don't seem to be that well done to me. And the ps4 edition seems to have issues with draw distances.

Edit: that doesn't necessarily mean it will be a bad game. Maybe it will be really fun, despite its flaws. I just don't know. That's why I'm cautious about it.

What is not well done about the ship building, or space travel? Or exploring planets? Or the shooting? What's not well done about them?

Ship building seems pretty cool. Different groups have different focuses, combat, exploration, etc. you need to become worthy to purchase better parts, or steal plans.

What is flawed about the planet exploration and what would you do better?

Shooting looked fine to me. We know you can craft different accessories to your weapon to have different effects.
 

JBwB

Member
It looks great but I don't think it's my cup of tea. Will be interested to see the reviews for it near towards release.
 
But my own real concern has always been that there wasn't going to be any real meaningful or challenging combat. No space flying or action shooting or platform jumping that lets you improve your skills. Nothing to get better at. If it's a estatic journey like Flower, Flow or Journey, that is fine. But I don't see that as something that can have as much replay value as what the hype has been lead to believe.
What? We already know the game has a leveling system, upgrades for yourself, weapons, and ships, career paths to improve at, factions to build relationships with, conditions and planets that require different and better gear to survive, etc.

It has as much of a meaningful structure as Elite, if not more so because here you have at least one concrete objective to work towards
 

dragos495

Member
i literally have no interest in this game. why would i? just because you can visit planets which are somewhat diferent? because of the nice colours?

i cant comprehend the hype around it!
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
i literally have no interest in this game. why would i? just because you can visit planets which are somewhat diferent? because of the nice colours?

i cant comprehend the hype around it!

What would you consider planets that are very different? What would be different enough?
 

oneils

Member
Please elaborate....

Pew pew seems kind of cheap. Point reticule, watch lazer or projectiles fire. It doesn't seem polished.
Exploration on the planet is about dropping a probe and walking to blinking thing.
Space travel is zoom out, warp to new destination.
Progression seems too simple. After you warp to new destination, get better tech and warp to even further destination.
Draw distance is distracting.

Space travel is not exactly elite dangerous, and combat is not exactly halo/doom. I get that. That would not be realistic. It's just that when I see it all together, I'm left sceptical.

Like I said, it doesn't necessarily mean it will be a bad game. I've only formed this impression based on what little game play we have seen so far. The game play loop and sense of scale might be enough to make it all tie together and be a great game.
 

eXistor

Member
"The illusion doesn't work on me"
"I want exploration to be meaningful"

This isn't a magic trick. You haven't even played the game yet. Sounds more like you're already biased in what the game is and will be and how it play, without giving their engine or tech a chance to prove itself. Especially when they specially tweaked the engine to only show certain kinds of species and planets for demos and footages

I mean, can you imagine going to see a movie like Revenant or The Raid or The Thing or LOTR or whatever and just thinking "Oh great, yup, it's all fake. I know it's all just CGI and perspective and stunts and sets. The illusion won't work on me"

I've watched many movies and played many many videogames for years and years. I can still be taken away by well-crafted experiences and I want this game to work for me. I really do. The things they've shown simply haven't convinced me they will work the way they want them to work. I don't really appreciate the fact that you paint me to be someone who isn't open to anything, when the opposite is true. If you have a well-crafted game or movie (it doesn't matter what it is) I'll suspend my disbelief, no problem. In fact, the films you've mentioned are some of my favorites; they're expertly crafted films. I'm simply saying, in the specific case of NMS, I simply don't buy into the universe they've "created" because it looks to be paper thin.

Again, I'd love to be proven wrong and as I've said many times before: I'm buying the game at launch, it's a very intruiging one. I'm certainly all for these kind of games. I just hope it's gonna be better than what they've showed.
 

Z3M0G

Member
I'm curious about how much you actually explore a planet. All the demos seem to have you landing conveniently by a lake and near buildings, but I don't remember anyone flying around the planet to find that landing spot. If exploring is more like 'fly down from space to spot X' then that would lower my interest. I want the exploring on the ground to be as interesting as flying around in space. I want to be able to (meaningfully) spend time on a planet rather than just land/tag stuff/take off.
I hope im completely wrong, but when a planet has something interesting, i suspect that thing exists duplicated every few kilometers (more or less) in every direction. That when you "explore a planet" you can see everything it has to offer within a square kilometer or so. (Hopefully not)
 
The point is not comparing the actual works, but the notion of going into something with this mechanical cynical mindset of "seeing through the illusion" or "that it won't work on me" or whatnot, from the outset, rather than, you know, enjoying what's there and how it's presented and forming your opinion based on that

It's not cynical, there is not a single game out there with procedurally generated content that compares to handcrafted environments (and just as importantly: map design to accommodate the gameplay mechanics)

Thinking that this game will be different is naive.

Procedurally generated is always red flag for generic content.

You're acting as if you can procedurally generate a king's landing or minas tirith.

Those are the kinds of interesting and well designed environments people talk about when they say they want to explore. To find crazy points of interest like that.
That is the drive to explore.

You leave midgar in ff7 and on the world map you find junon and rocket town , you explore in dragon's dogma and find the valley of the wind and bluemoon tower.

You're not getting that quality of content with procedural generation , ever. And the odds of any semi interesting formations or designs to ever come out of the rng are so slim that you'll be wading through a sea of generic garbage before you ever find it.

'biomes' are not interesting, what you might find in them is. And that is what NMS is missing. No matter how many different biomes you generate, it's pointless as there is no junon or bluemoon tower waiting for you in them. And since everything is reset once you leave a planet you can't even leave your own mark and make your own creations like in minecraft. (a game not about exploring, but a creative sandbox, every last interesting scene ever screenshotted in minecraft is of hand made content created by the players)

People lose interest when they hear the words 'procedurally generated' for a reason
 
Minecraft isn't about exploring? The most interesting engaging thing about Minecraft is the exploration. Seeing what natural formations are over the next hill, or finding an insane cave system to descend into. That's the main reason I played and enjoyed the game so much

I have zero interest in building things in Minecraft. That's boring.

Trust me, exploring landscapes for me is just as exciting as exploring cities and towns in other games
 

bidguy

Banned
game seems way too ambitious ... especially coming from the team that brought us joe danger

sounds good on paper but ill be surprised if its any good. reminds me of molyneux and his promises really
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
I hope im completely wrong, but when a planet has something interesting, i suspect that thing exists duplicated every few kilometers (more or less) in every direction.

You are wrong.

I'm curious about how much you actually explore a planet. All the demos seem to have you landing conveniently by a lake and near buildings, but I don't remember anyone flying around the planet to find that landing spot. If exploring is more like 'fly down from space to spot X' then that would lower my interest. I want the exploring on the ground to be as interesting as flying around in space. I want to be able to (meaningfully) spend time on a planet rather than just land/tag stuff/take off.

Some things will be marked when scanning. Things that scanners in a spaceship would reasonably see. But there are other things that are not marked on the map, like underground cave systems with different resources to mine and different animals.
 

Elandyll

Banned
On the very previous page:
Honestly at this point I think that people not knowing what the game is about, or comparing it to Minecraft or Spore are just trolling.
Not interested in exploration/ sandbox games to start with, they just want to let people who are very excited by the game know that -they- really don't see what the whole thing is about, or what's to be excited about. They almost find it offensive that so many others would be excited in fact.

Imo, if they can't be bothered to read any of the hundred pieces written on the game (assuming they are of good faith to begin with), why give them the attention they seek?
 
game seems way too ambitious ... especially coming from the team that brought us joe danger

sounds good on paper but ill be surprised if its any good. reminds me of molyneux and his promises really
Besides having ambitious projects, not really. Molyneux would make promises and claims about what he wants and hopes to have in his game. Sean has made a point to only show and talk about things that are in definitely in the game and not bring up features that might not work or haven't been implemented. Even going as far as denying that certain gameplay elements exist because he didn't want to promise things that might be cut or not work

For example, saying the game didn't have NPCs because they were still working on the feature and didn't want to reveal it until they were certain it worked well and was integrated into the game
 

Tigress

Member
It's not cynical, there is not a single game out there with procedurally generated content that compares to handcrafted environments (and just as importantly: map design to accommodate the gameplay mechanics)

Thinking that this game will be different is naive.

Procedurally generated is always red flag for generic content.

You're acting as if you can procedurally generate a king's landing or minas tirith.

Those are the kinds of interesting and well designed environments people talk about when they say they want to explore. To find crazy points of interest like that.
That is the drive to explore.

You leave midgar in ff7 and on the world map you find junon and rocket town , you explore in dragon's dogma and find the valley of the wind and bluemoon tower.

You're not getting that quality of content with procedural generation , ever. And the odds of any semi interesting formations or designs to ever come out of the rng are so slim that you'll be wading through a sea of generic garbage before you ever find it.

'biomes' are not interesting, what you might find in them is. And that is what NMS is missing. No matter how many different biomes you generate, it's pointless as there is no junon or bluemoon tower waiting for you in them. And since everything is reset once you leave a planet you can't even leave your own mark and make your own creations like in minecraft. (a game not about exploring, but a creative sandbox, every last interesting scene ever screenshotted in minecraft is of hand made content created by the players)

People lose interest when they hear the words 'procedurally generated' for a reason

The setting is more interesting to me for the fact that it wasn't just made purposely to be interesting but a set of rules dictated it. Kind of like our earth in reality. Do you think some one handcrafted the Grand Canyon just to make it interesting to explore for us? No, physics and chemistry made it. Some rules saying if this happens than this happens and lots of different rules coming together to dictate what happened to form it. Our whole universe is like that. Yes, our universe has a lot more complex set of rules than a game. But the tech gets better as more people work with it so those older prcpocedural games will have simpler rules than NMS so they are not necessarily a good predictor.

But to me it's more exciting to explore it because it wasn't just made on purpose in a very exact way just to be interesting. If I find something interesting it is because it was luck (and also I am truly discovering it).

Do you find our earth boring? Does everything have to be man made on purpose to be interesting for you to like it? Personally I think interesting landscapes are more something to marvel at for the fact that they weren't made by a sentient being but just a set of rules and pure coincidences ended up making it look like that.

I mean I like handcrafted worlds too but each thing has a different appeal and to just flat out rule out something because it's not man made specifically to be an entertainment ground for you is a bit closed minded.
 

oneils

Member
It's not cynical, there is not a single game out there with procedurally generated content that compares to handcrafted environments (and just as importantly: map design to accommodate the gameplay mechanics)

Thinking that this game will be different is naive.

Procedurally generated is always red flag for generic content.

You're acting as if you can procedurally generate a king's landing or minas tirith.

Those are the kinds of interesting and well designed environments people talk about when they say they want to explore. To find crazy points of interest like that.
That is the drive to explore.

You leave midgar in ff7 and on the world map you find junon and rocket town , you explore in dragon's dogma and find the valley of the wind and bluemoon tower.

You're not getting that quality of content with procedural generation , ever. And the odds of any semi interesting formations or designs to ever come out of the rng are so slim that you'll be wading through a sea of generic garbage before you ever find it.

'biomes' are not interesting, what you might find in them is. And that is what NMS is missing. No matter how many different biomes you generate, it's pointless as there is no junon or bluemoon tower waiting for you in them. And since everything is reset once you leave a planet you can't even leave your own mark and make your own creations like in minecraft. (a game not about exploring, but a creative sandbox, every last interesting scene ever screenshotted in minecraft is of hand made content created by the players)

People lose interest when they hear the words 'procedurally generated' for a reason

I tend to agree. Oblivion felt prett bland compared to the other elder scrolls games.

One thing I wonder about is how easy will it be to break this game. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that some players figure out how to get to the centre of the universe on day one.
 

MikeyB

Member
i literally have no interest in this game. why would i? just because you can visit planets which are somewhat diferent? because of the nice colours?

i cant comprehend the hype around it!

There is no other space flight game on PS4 (Strike Suit Zero doesn't count). There wasn't one on PS3 either.

I'm super stoked for the game for a whole bunch of reasons, but if I'm really honest about it, a big reason is that it is the only entry in a genre I have loved for 20 years - a genre with very few console entries and PC entries that often had prohibitive system requirements.
 
There is no other space flight game on PS4 (Strike Suit Zero doesn't count). There wasn't one on PS3 either.

I'm super stoked for the game for a whole bunch of reasons, but if I'm really honest about it, a big reason is that it is the only entry in a genre I have lived for 20 years - a genre with very few console entries and PC entries that often had prohibitive system requirements.
Not to mention it's arcade-y instead of being serious and realistic
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Pew pew seems kind of cheap. Point reticule, watch lazer or projectiles fire. It doesn't seem polished.
Exploration on the planet is about dropping a probe and walking to blinking thing.
Space travel is zoom out, warp to new destination.
Progression seems too simple. After you warp to new destination, get better tech and warp to even further destination.
Draw distance is distracting.

Space travel is not exactly elite dangerous, and combat is not exactly halo/doom. I get that. That would not be realistic. It's just that when I see it all together, I'm left sceptical.

Like I said, it doesn't necessarily mean it will be a bad game. I've only formed this impression based on what little game play we have seen so far. The game play loop and sense of scale might be enough to make it all tie together and be a great game.

Wow, everything you've said is wrong or simplified to the point it has no meaning. (except the draw distance)
 

SomTervo

Member
I've said it since the game was announced; Procedural generated worlds don't necessarily mean anything.

I remember Besthesda touted that Oblivion was so vast and detailed it was impossible to do it by hand. But if you explore that world, you'd have to agree that something was lost. Yes, Oblivion looks like a realistic forest with realistic hills, rivers and everything, but it lacks the expert world building of Morrowind, or Ocarina of Time or World of Warcraft. Where every rock and tree has been created by designers.

I'm only saying this because I saw posters in the past arguing that the games vastness will never make it boring. Because it's endless. But terrain variety can still be unique constantly, yet still boring, if you figure out how the sausage is made.
And that goes for the creatures and everything too. Spore was a good example of how something can be unique every time, but still come up short.

But my own real concern has always been that there wasn't going to be any real meaningful or challenging combat. No space flying or action shooting or platform jumping that lets you improve your skills. Nothing to get better at. If it's a estatic journey like Flower, Flow or Journey, that is fine. But I don't see that as something that can have as much replay value as what the hype has been lead to believe.

The mechanics seems more to be a excuse than something that has difficult enemies, or stuff like that, so it comes up to want to explore these procedural worlds. the worlds will change in tilesets, as will the creatures and fauna, and that is fine, but how much. How many. And how unique will ever world and creature respond your standard laser beam weapon.
NMS is a game like Universim ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU9Yg1ZtFd0 ) in that the potential for endless worlds is immense, but execution is going to be very hard. I hope for the best.


I don't expect NMS to reinvent the wheel. I think fanboys damaged this game by hyping it up so much. It should be more seen as an experiment than this declaration of a new era of gaming with its never ending game. I feel the IGN previews really showed the limited scope of the game. It's a indie game made by a small team. It's not Star Citizen, yet people almost treat it as such.

Really appreciate that you came at this from a level-headed approach.

That said, you're still missing a couple of key facts about their procedural generation algorithms (and the game in general).

1. In No Man's Sky's code, the procedural generation isn't set in stone. It's not a one-formula-fits-all gig.

At the outer skirts of the galaxy, the base algorithm is in play. It takes a bunch of formulae, plonks a seed into them, lets the effects ripple through.

But the closer you get to the galaxy, the more these procedural algorithms blend together and break their own rules in procedural ways. They customise themselves within layers and layers. For example, say near the galactic center the systems will procedurally generate a 6-legged dog animal's model. There's a body. Then it will procedurally generate a bat-animal's animation skeleton. There's a set of muscles. Then it will gradually, bit by bit, tweak the body, and tweak the muscles, to fit each other, meshing both of the procedural algorithms (for a dog-model and bat-skeleton) so that you eventually get a twisted, freakish dog-thing which looks a bit like a dog but moves weirdly, horribly like a bat. Take a step back and look at how many potential models there are already and how many skeleton bases there are already and the possibilities start to become mind-boggling. The game creates its own animations procedurally.

It's little wonder in many hands-on previews the journalists mentioned devs being surprised by the players' findings. The devs literally haven't seen half the shit the game's super-complex systems can make.

The idea is that there are procedural systems working upon procedural systems, combining them, meshing them, merging them, so that just saying 'there are a few procedural algorithms' is disingenuous. The game makes its own. And results in weirder and weirder and increasingly unique as you proceed through the galaxy/game. This also works on their AI behaviours, on planet-creation rules, etc.

2. The comparison to Oblivion is a bit disingenuous because in NMS surviving the world itself is the main gameplay loop. TES's gameplay revolves around narratives. The thousands of hand-crafted narratives in the game world, as well as making your own narrative and the narrative of your character. NMS's gameplay loop revolves around survival gameplay, through which you build your own narrative. So it's clear that procedural content in a game like Oblivion wouldn't work: the DNA of the game is the hand-crafted lore. Procedural stuff didn't affect the gameplay at all, you still just float about whacking enemies with an RNG-invoking weapon. But in NMS, the procedural elements create an infinite amount of actual gameplay situations for you to deal with - there's a storm happening, there are minerals underground i need, it's nighttime and certain creatures are coming out, there's a battle overhead and one of the factions hates me and will come attack me if they see me, etc.

3. There is a huge weapon upgrade tree and ship upgrade tree (basically tens of different kinds of weapon/ship) and on top of this there are hand-crafted space-faring factions who are at war with each other and have their own faction affiliations. Fight with one and they might reward you, but the other will then shoot on-sight. If you want the game to be harder, blow more shit up and aggro more people.

4. The team are also on-record saying they want the game to be challenging, and there are designers on board from classic '00s devs like Criterion working on the gameplay systems, so there's a decent reason to believe the mechanics will be good.

However, I'm not a fanboy. I'm not saying that the game will be great because of the reasons above. It might still be shit. I'd be disappointed but I think that's entirely possible and plausible.

Honestly at this point I think that people not knowing what the game is about, or comparing it to Minecraft or Spore are just trolling.
Not interested in exploration/ sandbox games to start with, they just want to let people who are very excited by the game know that -they- really don't see what the whole thing is about, or what's to be excited about. They almost find it offensive that so many others would be excited in fact.

Imo, if they can't be bothered to read any of the hundred pieces written on the game (assuming they are of good faith to begin with), why give them the attention they seek?

Honestly? I'm not really responding for those people's benefit.

I'm responding for the benefit of passers-by. People who are just skimming the thread and wondering more softly about how the game works. I'm basically trying to spread info about the game which people really don't know but is A) really cool and B) shows high potential for good gameplay.

And my rhetoric will be better if I'm arguing with someone :)
 

DMTripper

Member
This game has had way too much hype and can't see it living up to many people's expectations. Kinda feel sorry for the dev as it's mainly Sony's doing. I'm guessing they are trying to put the breaks on as we didn't see it at E3.

I'm gonna wait and read reviews etc, but my daughter definitely has the NMS fever :-D
 

Steejee

Member
Very much wait and see.

The combat videos looked pretty dull, and procedural generated content rarely works for me (very much depends on the type of game). It'd be nice if this was an exception though.
 

oneils

Member
Wow, everything you've said is wrong or simplified to the point it has no meaning. (except the draw distance)

Diablo III is Click on monsters until they die. Have I simplified it to the point of having no meaning? I don't think so. It's actually a very good game because it's polished and people like the gameplay loop and sense of progression. Will we be satisfied with no mans sky? I won't know until I've played it.

Edit: oh and feel free to correct when I'm wrong. You asked me to elaborate and I had the courtesy to do so. I'm not sure why you havent shown me the same courtesy.
 
Top Bottom