• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Where is the evidence that Gamepass type services are "the future" moving forward?

Swift_Star

Banned
The attempt to group Sony in with Nintendo’s game sales by Sony fanboys has to be one of the saddest things about GAF. They’re not even in the same league.
That’s not what this is about. GoW and HZD sold more than 10 million. BOTW sold more than 30 million. People chose to pay $60 for games. They’re not stopping to do that because gamepass exists. Care to counter this fact?
And “not in the same league” according to fanboys is a moot point anyway.
But show me evidence that people will stop buying full priced games because GP exists.
You and your friend are still having a hard time proving that people will chose the more “bang for buck” option despite Nintendo and Sony games breaking record after record.
And let us not forget steam. God knows how much Nintendo games would sell there now that Sonys are also breaking records. Good luck proving GP is the end all be all.
 
Last edited:

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Because who plays a 30 minute album over and over again like a video game?

Confused Joe Biden GIF by CBS News


An album is probably the one thing people are most likely to replay. This is an alien take.
 

RevGaming

Member
Confused Joe Biden GIF by CBS News


An album is probably the one thing people are most likely to replay. This is an alien take.
LMAO.

So you'll play the album for 40 hours like a video game? If you do that, you must be one in a billion.

Edit: I really thought people didn't do that in the first week it released. I must not know anybody like that or I haven't asked. I personally find it crazy.
 
Last edited:

Banjo64

cumsessed
That’s not what this is about. GoW and HZD sold more than 10 million. BOTW sold more than 30 million. People chose to pay $60 for games. They’re not stopping to do that because gamepass exists. Care to counter this fact?
And “not in the same league” according to fanboys is a moot point anyway.
But show me evidence that people will stop buying full priced games because GP exists.
I don’t think they will? As seen by Sea of Thieves selling 5 million copies on Steam in 18 months.

I think both methods of delivery can co-exist and I don’t want to see Sony or Nintendo follow Microsoft.
 

RevGaming

Member
You may or may not be right.

All I know is with games becoming increasingly expensive to make how will a subscription service finance those astronomical development costs. If games are costing millions to make in the here and now, what are the costs going to be during the PS6 or PS7 generation.

The only way I see to recoup costs is through microtransactions and I fucking hate those. I don't want to be stuck in pay-to-win bullshit like how its stinking up the mobile gaming market.

Worst case scenario is that years from now GamePass and other competing services evolve into pay-to-win nonsense and which point I'll sure just check out completely.

I don't think game prices are going up in ps6 and ps7 gen because of graphical diminishing returns. I think the 100m console traditional way to sell a couple million of games has always worked. Idk why that had to change.

Gamepass will convert console gaming premium games into more like mobile type of gaming.
 
Last edited:

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
What is this fascination bordering on obsession some users have with Microsoft and game pass's profit margins on this forum ?

I'm a subscriber to the service and wondering how they're sustaining the service is the last thing on my mind as a gamer ..

That's what we do here. We only care about profit.

Because who plays a 2 hour movie or a 30 minute album over and over again like a video game?

I do. I frequently still listens o Eminem The Slim Shady L, which I've heard a million times over the last twenty years.

That’s not what this is about. GoW and HZD sold more than 10 million. BOTW sold more than 30 million. People chose to pay $60 for games. They’re not stopping to do that because gamepass exists.

And why should they stop?

Game pass will not replace purchase of games. It help people who doesn't have many money to play a lot of games. I completed outriders crackdown 3 and doom eternal from game pass. One month for 3 triple a games.

Single player games are completed and then it's on to next game. Why replay a game you already completed?

LMAO.

So you'll play the album for 40 hours like a video game? If you do that, you must be one in a billion.

Which games did you play for forty hours?

I often do that with multi player games, but there ain't many single player games that has the much content, unless you like to run around and gather random collectibles.

And then I'd rather play different games instead.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
LMAO.

So you'll play the album for 40 hours like a video game? If you do that, you must be one in a billion.

I can play some albums 20 times and it only take me 12 hours, that's still me replaying it over and over, and in what universe is every game 40 hours long? That's silly, they're incomparable mediums. That said, there's a LOT of albums I've played for 40 hours or more over my life, that's not uncommon at all.

Spotify and the like are popular because most people will listen to enough different albums that it's just not worth buying those individual albums, because even replayed numerous times, it's still only going to be a fraction of their listening time. Game Pass is great for people who likewise play tons of different games, not as great for people who prefer to invest a lot of time into playing a handful of games every year.
 
Last edited:

RevGaming

Member
MS already confirmed multiple times they don't care for hardware sales.
Because they can't compete with console and game sales with sony and nintendo. Well they have cod now.
Subscription services is where the money is at and Sony sees that as well and people are praising Game Pass.
Quite the opposite. They may do a service but no day 1 games unless they're small indies and a few double A games.
But Sony knows that adding a subscription will also benefit those who do not want to spend $70.
Wait for a sale
MS clearly is seeing some sort of success with Game Pass, if they didn't no one would be using it nor would the company continue to invest in it. Call of Duty is gonna be on Game Pass now.
Because MS believes there are 3 Billion gamers. Phil's coworkers told him it wouldn't work. 25 million in 4-5 years? Hopefully is not getting saturated already. Oh wait, it will, because mobile "gamers" don't give a crap about Halo on their phones and everyone using xcloud already has a PC/Xbox.
Explain to me why Jim Ryan confirmed 10 live service games for Sony by 2026 please? I need to hear your thoughts.
GaaS don't need to be on a service to make money though.
 

RevGaming

Member
No need to wait; results prove you're already wrong.
No. You're wrong. Look at people reacting at Halo Infinite battle pass, lack of skins, high price of skins. Look at Gears 5 complaints about lootboxes.

Watch new games with new characters being high priced or excessively grindy to get. Nickel and diming you every step of the way.
I think they're just saying the majority of gamers, when you include the wider mainstream market, aren't buying one for that reason. Which is statistically true; even in their best year to date Sony 1P games accounted for only 18% of total PlayStation division software revenue.
and why would they lose that 18%? I find it better paying $60 for a multiplayer game and having everything unlocked instead of having it free to play and each character costing $10. If you prefer the latter, good, because most people do, but it's not more "value" to have games like that on a service.
Aside of that though, obviously there are people excited for Forbidden West, and for very good reasons. Same with GT7. But it's still important to keep in mind what percentage that might be when considering the entire PlayStation install base.
They're selling better than third party single player games. They're totally fine.
 

RevGaming

Member
I can play some albums 20 times and it only take me 12 hours,
You're very small minority compared to how many people play games over 12 hours tho.
and in what universe is every game 40 hours long?
I didn't say every game.
That's silly, they're incomparable mediums.
That's my point. Netflix and Gamepass will reach and not reach people for different reasons
That said, there's a LOT of albums I've played for 40 hours or more over my life, that's not uncommon at all.
There are just too many different variables for both to even be the same. The interactivity that video games have, make it a lot different on how games are consumed. People that listen 40 hours of their album are small compared to how many people play a certain game over 40 hours. Plus music is cheaper to make than video games. A LOT cheaper.
 
Last edited:

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Because they can't compete with console and game sales with sony and nintendo. Well they have cod now

"Toyota stops making cars and are doing car radio systems instead, because they can't keep up with the sales of Audi and Volkswagen."

Can't you literally hear how stupid that sounds?

Just because you don't sell as much hardware as the other competitors on the market doesn't mean that a company pulls out from the market.

You're very small minority compared to how many people play games over 12 hours tho.

I think you underestimate how many people who listens to music compared to gaming.
Theres much more people listening to music in the world compared to how many are playing video games.

Gaf ain't real life.
 

RevGaming

Member
When games release DLC or MTX before the game even releases, that’s when I feel like we are having to pay extra for the complete experience. Shadow of Tomb Raider, Granblue Versus, Mass Effect 3 and King of Fighters 15 did this for example if I remember correctly. Most service games are obviously never complete even after years and I guess that one of the things that annoys me because it delays a new game or an improved sequel from the company. I don’t mind DLC or MTX later if it is handled correctly, but day one feels wrong to me. We are still paying full price, but getting less content in certain games on day one and content is purposely held back to sell later.

The mentality now in the industry is, “ship now, complete later” and I suppose fighting games are probably the worst when it comes to paying for the complete experience. I just feel like a GAAS and microtransactions filled industry will encourage this behavior even more with all genres.

I don’t know. I really don’t think we are dealing with the same Sony as before. EA buying someone? Hopefully not lol, but I do wonder what would happens if someone buys EA?
Don't worry.

People will tell you in your face, "oh but it's $15 and you have other games just as bad in 2030."

I have friends already telling me I need to embrace mediocre games.

It's happening.
 

RevGaming

Member
Says who? You? A game that started development before gamepass was even a thing? Before Zenimax was purchased by MS?

Most of the games you are seeing being released on Gamepass right now were not made with Gamepass in mind. They are deals or games that started development before Gamepass was released to entice people to join. Games made for Gamepass started at most in 2018, one year after Gamepass release. They can claim they have big AAA games on the subscription service and slowly change to a more focused Gamepass type of game development (if that ever happens at all).

Exactly.

Starfield wasn't made considerating it will be on Gamepass.

Elder Scrolls 6, Next iD, Arkance, Tango, Machine games will be the true games made with gamepass in mind. If they're less than 10 hours, don't look better than ps4 games, have recycled aspects to them, I know Gamepass/Spartacus ain't gonna work for me.

Oh and Avowed, Fable, Hellblade, Everwild, State of Decay 3 are also good to look out for.
 
Last edited:

RevGaming

Member
Would 100 million subscribers or 18 billion revenue a year suffice?
It won't reach 100m.

1. Xbox consoles never reached 100m. Ps5 was just above it.
2. People on mobile don't like console or AAA games. You think with their expensive iPhones they wouldn't have bought a console from previous gens already?
3. People who can't afford a console won't provide that much $ anyways.
4. People will eventually run of things to play because of their limited subjective preferences in games and drop the service.
5. People will prefer to buy 3 games for the same value because that's all they need for the year. (Casuals)
 
Last edited:
If by "the future" you mean a supplementary service that provides value to gamers and the service providers, then yes clearly. We're already here.

If by "the future" you mean becomes the single dominant distribution method for games, on the whole, no fucking chance. Unless you think every third party AAA publisher is going to give up making AAA because under said model they're no longer economic for anyone other than sub-service providers that reap the lion's share of revenues.
 

Kokoloko85

Member
What is this fascination bordering on obsession some users have with Microsoft and game pass's profit margins on this forum ?

I'm a subscriber to the service and wondering how they're sustaining the service is the last thing on my mind as a gamer ..
Because if its not profitable hows it gonna be good for the industry?

If games studios, publishers, companies dont make their money back after awhile they stop producing those games/consoles etc

Saying its the future,so nintendo and playstation need to do the same but its its not sustainable, its silly (a deathtrap) for the company to do the same…
 

RevGaming

Member
But why does it bother YOU ? You don't have Gamepass, you don't own an Xbox so how does this effect you?
Because it affects him indirectly? Lets say people paid $15 for Spider-man 2. Lets say 90% bought it for $15 and you bought it $70.

Next game becomes smaller in scale because it didn't make that much money and you'll suffer more than them because you wasted $70 instead of $15.

Sony might not make more SP. Overall is a bad thing in the long term.
 

RevGaming

Member
To be fair in the case of Gamepass you still have the option to buy.
Doesn't matter when most people are not supporting the game and you'll get an inferior sequel.

If your response is: " then join them", then that doesn't fix the quality of the game.
 
Last edited:

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
LMAO.

So you'll play the album for 40 hours like a video game? If you do that, you must be one in a billion.

tell me youre a zoomer without telling me youre a zoomer?

Is it even called zoomer?

Im from back in the day when an album was more than disposable pop shite and you would absolutely listen to a classic album for like 40 hours in total. Sometimes that album might be on repeat for multiple days.

It's not yours or my fault that the majority of music has become disposable.
 

Chukhopops

Member
It won't reach 100m.

1. Xbox consoles never reached 100m. Ps5 was just above it.
2. People on mobile don't like console or AAA games. You think with their expensive iPhones they wouldn't have bought a console from previous gens already?
3. People who can't afford a console won't provide that much $ anyways.
4. People will eventually run of things to play because of their limited subjective preferences in games and drop the service.
5. People will prefer to buy 3 games for the same value because that's all they need for the year. (Casuals)
So many baseless assumptions about « people » as if it’s one monolithic block with the same tastes and preferences…
Because it affects him indirectly? Lets say people paid $15 for Spider-man 2. Lets say 90% bought it for $15 and you bought it $70.

Next game becomes smaller in scale because it didn't make that much money and you'll suffer more than them because you wasted $70 instead of $15.

Sony might not make more SP. Overall is a bad thing in the long term.
But you said casuals would prefer to buy the only 2-3 games they care about in a year, why would 90% suddenly go for a sub?
 

MadViking

Member
Maybe you should ask Sony. They were the first ones to devalue high profile games by giving them away through ps+ service.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Don't worry.

People will tell you in your face, "oh but it's $15 and you have other games just as bad in 2030."

I have friends already telling me I need to embrace mediocre games.

It's happening.
Because it affects him indirectly? Lets say people paid $15 for Spider-man 2. Lets say 90% bought it for $15 and you bought it $70.

Next game becomes smaller in scale because it didn't make that much money and you'll suffer more than them because you wasted $70 instead of $15.

Sony might not make more SP. Overall is a bad thing in the long term.

Doesn't matter when most people are not supporting the game and you'll get an inferior sequel.

If your response is: " then join them", then that doesn't fix the quality of the game.
disgusted not safe for work GIF
 

Swift_Star

Banned
And why should they stop?

Game pass will not replace purchase of games. It help people who doesn't have many money to play a lot of games. I completed outriders crackdown 3 and doom eternal from game pass. One month for 3 triple a games.

Single player games are completed and then it's on to next game. Why replay a game you already completed?
You should ask you friend why would they stop, he’s the one claiming people would always chose “more bang for buck” when it’s obviously not true.
As for why replay a game… are you serious? Apart from replayability factors like Souls game offer, some (lots actually) like to replay the games at higher difficulties, try new builds, redo the challenges, rexperience the story. I mean, is this a serious question? People replay games all the time.
 

RevGaming

Member
What I've learned by Gaf is that the users often are afraid of changes.
From a previous conversation we had on another thread, I think you're afraid of change too.
Did hbo, Netflix, and Disney plus devalue movies and TV series. Did Spotify devalue music?
Has Netflix made movies like Avengers, Harry Potter, Lord of The rings, Avatar type of quality? You still gotta remember cable TV still exists. Disney plus doesn't even put their movies day 1. I think Sony will be more like Disney plus but with ps1-3 backwards compatible.
But why do people outright hate game pass? It is optional, you dot have to sub.
If I decide to buy or not, I'm still collateral damage of games selling less and dropping in quality because of these $15 people.
I also don't get why haters are saying that the prices will go up.
Tell that to $120 xbox live attempt.
It won't surprise me that there will be a vocal majority that's gonna praise Spartakus to the skies when Sony releases it, and many of those are the ones hating on game pass
I won't support it either.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
LMAO.

So you'll play the album for 40 hours like a video game? If you do that, you must be one in a billion.
I've been listening to the same albums regularly for more than 40 years. I've listed to the same albums for thousands of hours and I've been more connected to a single song more than every video game I've ever played. Listening to a great album on repeat for 40 hours is nothing.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
You should ask you friend why would they stop, he’s the one claiming people would always chose “more bang for buck” when it’s obviously not true.
As for why replay a game… are you serious? Apart from replayability factors like Souls game offer, some (lots actually) like to replay the games at higher difficulties, try new builds, redo the challenges, rexperience the story. I mean, is this a serious question? People replay games all the time.
Yes, it's a serious question.

I don't rewatch a movie I just saw. I rarely ever see the same movie or TV show again, because I know what happens.

The same with games I've completed them. No reason to play it again as I know what will happen.
 

RevGaming

Member
"Toyota stops making cars and are doing car radio systems instead, because they can't keep up with the sales of Audi and Volkswagen."

Can't you literally hear how stupid that sounds?
Does Toyota has a service where you can use all of their cars? lol
Just because you don't sell as much hardware as the other competitors on the market doesn't mean that a company pulls out from the market.
They can sell as many now. They don't need Gamepass. They have AB now. They can beat sony in console sales. Why cripple yourself with losing money with gamepass?
I think you underestimate how many people who listens to music compared to gaming.
Theres much more people listening to music in the world compared to how many are playing video games.
Exactly, meaning Gamepass will have less subs and be less sustainable.
 

RevGaming

Member
tell me youre a zoomer without telling me youre a zoomer?

Is it even called zoomer?

Im from back in the day when an album was more than disposable pop shite and you would absolutely listen to a classic album for like 40 hours in total. Sometimes that album might be on repeat for multiple days.

It's not yours or my fault that the majority of music has become disposable.
But music is way cheaper to make tho.
 

RevGaming

Member
So many baseless assumptions about « people » as if it’s one monolithic block with the same tastes and preferences…
It's a lot of speculation, for sure.
But you said casuals would prefer to buy the only 2-3 games they care about in a year, why would 90% suddenly go for a sub?
My bad. I mean games like NBA2k, Fifa and Cod. 2 of them are not on Gamepass, so they would be paying only for cod for $120 plus $70 for the other two, twice, so they would rather pay $210 instead of $120+ $70 + $70. Casuals only care about annual games and free to play games. Some only play battle royale and won't care for Gamepass at all.

but let me shut up before MS buys EA and T2 lol.


I still believe Gamepass won't work and if Halo Infinite monetization keeps happening on other games, with lack of content and new upcoming content, people will stop supporting. I just look at free to play games and I go thinking : "I wouldn't want every game to be like this, it would be boring".
 

Interfectum

Member
There is little evidence that Game Pass is the future... it's why MS is spending billions to force feed it down our throats. MS is creating a demand for subscription services and using Netflix as the model.

Notice how Spotify or Netflix grew from the ground up? They solved a problem in their specific industries... Sending people discs through the mail vs sending movies directly to their TV or instead of people having to download gigs of music illegally, provide them with a service to get their music easily.

Gaming has never really needed a subscription service on this level. Games are played different than movies or music. There are some people who only play 2-3 games a year. Very few people consume the volume of games on the level of consuming music or TV. The idea that MS will be coming out with a AAA game every month is laughably wasteful. There will be so many games that go unplayed.

Ask yourself this: Why aren't consumers the ones pushing this? Why did it take a trillion dollar tech company to dump nearly $100 billion on acquisitions, $1 subscriptions and dumping full $60 games to make this happen?
 

Shubh_C63

Member
I 100% believe that is the future. You can't beat free, which would be the next next step for Gaming when user is the product.

[In 15-20 years] Only way it takes more than that is if Sony didn't shook the world with VR and Nintendo with their Wii-AR in 2032.

1. Cheap games
2. All development going (sorta) GaaS which fits GP
3. Less reliance on GPU/specs to cater wider audience (stream games on your iPad)
4. Streaming services
5. META (Summer Wars apocalypse) shit
 

ZehDon

Member
It won't reach 100m.

1. Xbox consoles never reached 100m. Ps5 was just above it.
Contrasting console sales against a multi-platform subscription service is disingenuous. Xbox doesn't need to sell 100m consoles to have 100m Game Pass subscribers. Hell, Xbox doesn't need to sell any consoles to have 100m Game Pass subscribers if taken to the extreme. This is the point of Game Pass. I presume you also meant PS3, as PS5 has just released this past year, and PS4 passed 100m a while ago.

2. People on mobile don't like console or AAA games. You think with their expensive iPhones they wouldn't have bought a console from previous gens already?
Demonstrably wrong. The only objective fact is that people on mobile play games available on mobile. This is why there are mobile ports of GTA and Final Fantasy, and mobile versions of Fortnight and Call of Duty that have all been enormously successful.

3. People who can't afford a console won't provide that much $ anyways.
Refer to point one. Game Pass like-services are designed to circumvent the need for expensive hardware outlays, thus lowering the barrier of entry to the ecosystem. People who can't afford a console still likely have a Desktop computer or mobile phone where Game Pass is also available. For a fraction of the cost of a retail game, they can have access to hundreds of games on their existing platforms. This also ignores the fact that the Series S is the cheapest next-gen console, and is referred to as a "Game Pass box".

4. People will eventually run of things to play because of their limited subjective preferences in games and drop the service.
As you may not be aware, Microsoft has recently invested approximately USD$77 billion dollars in acquiring two publishers, bringing their total internal development studios to around 32. In addition, Microsoft continues to sign third party games for timed appearance on the service each month. The games on Game Pass cross every genre. Microsoft has been quietly cultivating Game Pass with an enormous breadth of titles, and have boasted about the service's ability to service new title discovery. The point isn't to give RTS players unlimited new RTS games, but rather to entice RTS players to try non-RTS games because they can play as many as they want as part of their subscription. According to Microsoft, it's working well.

5. People will prefer to buy 3 games for the same value because that's all they need for the year. (Casuals)
Using Sony as the example, three PlayStation 5 games costs AUD$375.00, at AUD$125.00 a piece. A year of Game Pass Ultimate, covering PC, Xbox, and xCloud, only costs AUD$191.40 if paid at full price on a month-by-month basis. The cost drops considerably if an annual subscription is purchased, or other deals and exploits are used to lower the price. The "casuals" you're referring to are likely just buying the biggest games - Call of Duty, Madden, and Fifa. Call of Duty was recently acquired by Microsoft and will be included in Game Pass next year, and Madden and Fifa's legacy titles are all available via Game Pass Ultimate's inclusion of EA Play. So, a casual can buy a year of Game Pass Ultimate paid per month and still have over AUD$180.00 in their pocket to buy a couple of retail games - including a brand new release that isn't on Game Pass.

The limiting factor in Game Pass's ability to achieve 100m subscribers is Microsoft's ability to consistently deliver industry leading titles on the service month after month after month. Games like Forza Horizon 5 are a great example of what they need to deliver, while Halo Infinite is an example of what they need to avoid - poorly made bloated games designed as "platforms" instead. We can discuss the ability of Microsoft's developers to achieve that goal, and the incentives they may have to turn everything into a GaaS that will hinder them, but, basically every reason you've stated so far is wrong.
 
Last edited:

Roxkis_ii

Member
It's a lot of people who like gamepass, and if I were younger, I probably would to. But as I get older, I start to understand that if things have a cost, your going to pay them one way or another. I would prefer to pay the cost of my games up front. Games on a sub are going to have to try to get money out of people in ways I feel makes games worst to be financially feasible.

On gamepass today, Microsoft is eating that cost, but eventually the accountants will start to get involved, and it's probably not going to be pretty.

At the end of the day, I believe there is a place for gamepass, but I don't think it's going to be the future, maybe apart of it.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
On gamepass today, Microsoft is eating that cost, but eventually the accountants will start to get involved, and it's probably not going to be pretty.

One thing to remember is that it's a long-term strategy and there will come a time when MS close off the £1 trials and various loopholes. When the people that were previously paying a fraction of the cost for the service suddenly find themselves having to pay a lot more, some will leave, but overall I think you'll see the average amount paid per GP sub increasing - and that's before they raise the base price or introduce tiers.
 
There is little evidence that Game Pass is the future... it's why MS is spending billions to force feed it down our throats. MS is creating a demand for subscription services and using Netflix as the model.

Notice how Spotify or Netflix grew from the ground up? They solved a problem in their specific industries... Sending people discs through the mail vs sending movies directly to their TV or instead of people having to download gigs of music illegally, provide them with a service to get their music easily.

Gaming has never really needed a subscription service on this level. Games are played different than movies or music. There are some people who only play 2-3 games a year. Very few people consume the volume of games on the level of consuming music or TV. The idea that MS will be coming out with a AAA game every month is laughably wasteful. There will be so many games that go unplayed.

Ask yourself this: Why aren't consumers the ones pushing this? Why did it take a trillion dollar tech company to dump nearly $100 billion on acquisitions, $1 subscriptions and dumping full $60 games to make this happen?
Lol there wasn't a demand for movie subscriptions either. However NFLX thought that such a system would work and would prove popular, and well we all saw how popular the model got.

Yes MS is hopping on the subscription bandwagon but how you referred to them "force-feeding" subs down our throats carries little weight. What's the sub count now? 20m? That means that clearly a lot of people do like what gamepass offers. Most of them don't care about the the profitability of it to MS or how they get Net adds. The various promotions are an extremely sweet deal and gamers cash in. If MS continues to offer good value, people will continue to sub. If they slip up, they will lose out. And if some people prefer to buy games, last I checked there are no subscription exclusive games. Gamepass is an OPTION and clearly a popular option give the sub growth and offers undeniably great value. At best the service will continue to offer great value gaming for people who don't want to spend a great deal. At worst the system might not meet MS return expectations in the long run and they might wind it down. But who cares about corporate profits?? Take full use of all the promotions and enjoy it. It's a net win for gamers looking for value no matter which way you slice it.
 

Topher

Gold Member
It's a lot of people who like gamepass, and if I were younger, I probably would to. But as I get older, I start to understand that if things have a cost, your going to pay them one way or another. I would prefer to pay the cost of my games up front. Games on a sub are going to have to try to get money out of people in ways I feel makes games worst to be financially feasible.

On gamepass today, Microsoft is eating that cost, but eventually the accountants will start to get involved, and it's probably not going to be pretty.

At the end of the day, I believe there is a place for gamepass, but I don't think it's going to be the future, maybe apart of it.

Pretty much what I was going to say. I don't think for one second that a video game publisher is going to stop selling their games in favor of being part of a subscription. That's what it means to me when people say something is "the future". I see people say the same thing about streaming as if there will be no option to run games on local hardware. As long as there is a consumer base willing to pay money to buy games then publishers will be willing to take their money. It is just that simple.

One thing to remember is that it's a long-term strategy and there will come a time when MS close off the £1 trials and various loopholes. When the people that were previously paying a fraction of the cost for the service suddenly find themselves having to pay a lot more, some will leave, but overall I think you'll see the average amount paid per GP sub increasing - and that's before they raise the base price or introduce tiers.

Agree. More than likely there will be a drop in number of subscriptions at that point as well. But MS will have anticipated that.
 
Last edited:

Roxkis_ii

Member
One thing to remember is that it's a long-term strategy and there will come a time when MS close off the £1 trials and various loopholes. When the people that were previously paying a fraction of the cost for the service suddenly find themselves having to pay a lot more, some will leave, but overall I think you'll see the average amount paid per GP sub increasing - and that's before they raise the base price or introduce tiers.

I'm sure that will happen, but my fear is more on how game will have to be made to be profitable on games pass. If you can't depend on the upfront cost, then your depending on to having to get money from people on the back end with fortnight/ubisoft/mobile game style stores in a lot of games. Game with bad progression systems to make you want to buy boosters.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
I'm sure that will happen, but my fear is more on how game will have to be made to be profitable on games pass. If you can't depend on the upfront cost, then your depending on to having to get money from people on the back end with fortnight/ubisoft/mobile game style stores in a lot of games. Game with bad progression systems to make you want to buy boosters.

I think it's fair to assume you'll see an increase in the amount that happens, but at the same time, they're probably not stupid enough to make it so prevalent that it turns people off. As long as I don't feel like a game is tuned around it, I'll play it and never put any money into that stuff. Intrusiveness is the keyword. When Forza gave me the option of paying a few dollars to unlock the locations of the collectibles on the map, I was fine with it (but didn't buy it), because I can play the game and find those collectibles as normal, or just use a free guide to find them myself. The issue comes with games like Assassin's Creed that are literally designed to have slow levelling in order to convince people to pay for XP boosts in a single player game, which is abhorrent.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Yes, it's a serious question.

I don't rewatch a movie I just saw. I rarely ever see the same movie or TV show again, because I know what happens.

The same with games I've completed them. No reason to play it again as I know what will happen.
You are not everyone else. You should NEVER make assumptions of other people's behaviors on your own. I rewatched Encanto last week.
I played DS3 3 times. I played FF7 10+ times. So that should mean people replay multiple games multiple times since I do it. Why is your behavior more common than mine? lmao.
 
Last edited:

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
You are not everyone else. You should NEVER make assumptions of other people's behaviors on your own. I rewatched Encanto last week.
I played DS3 3 times. I played FF7 10+ times. So that should mean people replay multiple games multiple times since I do it. Why is your behavior more common than mine? lmao.
I didn't say no one did. But there's not many people replaying the same game ten times.

My behavior is more common.... Because many people do it?
 

RevGaming

Member
Contrasting console sales against a multi-platform subscription service is disingenuous. Xbox doesn't need to sell 100m consoles to have 100m Game Pass subscribers. Hell, Xbox doesn't need to sell any consoles to have 100m Game Pass subscribers if taken to the extreme. This is the point of Game Pass. I presume you also meant PS3, as PS5 has just released this past year, and PS4 passed 100m a while ago.
Buying an xbox back then gave access to a lot of UNIQUE games and third party games and they didn't manage to convince 100m people, so I doubt a service that doesn't have 100% of the console's games will do it. No. I meant ps4.
Demonstrably wrong. The only objective fact is that people on mobile play games available on mobile. This is why there are mobile ports of GTA and Final Fantasy, and mobile versions of Fortnight and Call of Duty that have all been enormously successful.
Those games are made to cater to them. These are not. You understand why console gamers hate mobile games, right? Or why Moms don't care about Halo or Fortnite and prefer Candy Crush. Gamepass is already out on mobile, right?
Refer to point one. Game Pass like-services are designed to circumvent the need for expensive hardware outlays, thus lowering the barrier of entry to the ecosystem. People who can't afford a console still likely have a Desktop computer or mobile phone where Game Pass is also available. For a fraction of the cost of a retail game, they can have access to hundreds of games on their existing platforms. This also ignores the fact that the Series S is the cheapest next-gen console, and is referred to as a "Game Pass box".
Yeah. I get it, but still don't believe in it.
As you may not be aware, Microsoft has recently invested approximately USD$77 billion dollars in acquiring two publishers, bringing their total internal development studios to around 32. In addition, Microsoft continues to sign third party games for timed appearance on the service each month. The games on Game Pass cross every genre. Microsoft has been quietly cultivating Game Pass with an enormous breadth of titles, and have boasted about the service's ability to service new title discovery. The point isn't to give RTS players unlimited new RTS games, but rather to entice RTS players to try non-RTS games because they can play as many as they want as part of their subscription. According to Microsoft, it's working well.
Eh. Millions will still play only battle royale and annual franchises lol. Look at your friend list. My casuals friends are like that. Play 1-2 game per year. Doesn't matter how many genres Gamepass has. They don't care. The same thing can be applied to mobile "casual" gamers that only play 1-2 games on their phones.
Using Sony as the example, three PlayStation 5 games costs AUD$375.00, at AUD$125.00 a piece. A year of Game Pass Ultimate, covering PC, Xbox, and xCloud, only costs AUD$191.40 if paid at full price on a month-by-month basis. The cost drops considerably if an annual subscription is purchased, or other deals and exploits are used to lower the price. The "casuals" you're referring to are likely just buying the biggest games - Call of Duty, Madden, and Fifa. Call of Duty was recently acquired by Microsoft and will be included in Game Pass next year, and Madden and Fifa's legacy titles are all available via Game Pass Ultimate's inclusion of EA Play. So, a casual can buy a year of Game Pass Ultimate paid per month and still have over AUD$180.00 in their pocket to buy a couple of retail games - including a brand new release that isn't on Game Pass.

The limiting factor in Game Pass's ability to achieve 100m subscribers is Microsoft's ability to consistently deliver industry leading titles on the service month after month after month. Games like Forza Horizon 5 are a great example of what they need to deliver, while Halo Infinite is an example of what they need to avoid - poorly made bloated games designed as "platforms" instead. We can discuss the ability of Microsoft's developers to achieve that goal, and the incentives they may have to turn everything into a GaaS that will hinder them, but, basically every reason you've stated so far is wrong.
This is the only one I agree with, because I forgot EA play was included. Hmm. Maybe that's why Madden and Fifa turned out to be even worst this year? Because they were on Gamepass? I wouldn't want that.
 
Last edited:

DaGwaphics

Member
Confused Joe Biden GIF by CBS News


An album is probably the one thing people are most likely to replay. This is an alien take.

I really hope @RevGaming was intentionally posting that for shits and giggles. Who hasn't played a new album 10 or 20 times over the first week it comes out, seems bizarre to think otherwise.

Gaming is a focused activity, not something you can do while actively doing something else. That shifts the need for content quite a lot and removes the need for content to be played over and over again. A game that takes 20hrs to complete is going to consume the gaming time of the better part of a month for a lot of people.
 

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
This is the only one I agree with, because I forgot EA play was included. Hmm. Maybe that's why Madden and Fifa turned out to be even worst this year? Because they were on Gamepass? I wouldn't want that.

Nah, both games made their way to GP months after launch, it'll be a miracle if you ever see things like that day-and-date on GP because they're games that sell completely irrespective of quality. It's also why there's a good chance COD won't launch on Game Pass like a lot of people assume it will.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
I really hope @RevGaming was intentionally posting that for shits and giggles. Who hasn't played a new album 10 or 20 times over the first week it comes out, seems bizarre to think otherwise.

Gaming is a focused activity, not something you can do while actively doing something else. That shifts the need for content quite a lot and removes the need for content to be played over and over again. A game that takes 20hrs to complete is going to consume the gaming time of the better part of a month for a lot of people.
He just hates game pass because Microsoft is behind it.
 

RevGaming

Member
I really hope @RevGaming was intentionally posting that for shits and giggles. Who hasn't played a new album 10 or 20 times over the first week it comes out, seems bizarre to think otherwise.

Gaming is a focused activity, not something you can do while actively doing something else. That shifts the need for content quite a lot and removes the need for content to be played over and over again. A game that takes 20hrs to complete is going to consume the gaming time of the better part of a month for a lot of people.
I was being serious. I didn't know listened 40 hours in the first week of an album release. I can hear the same song for an hour but that's usually one song that gets stuck and that's rare.

Regardless, music is cheaper to make, has a wider reach and won't have these concerns.
 
Day 1 releases? Sony's first party games are high budget single player games and don't lend themselves to predatory GaaS oriented type micro transaction type subscription services and I'd like it to stay that way.

Bill Senate GIF
Imagine being so misguided that you actually believe that's what Game Pass (and Spartacus if it does Day 1 releases) would do to games. Did you get hurt by a subscription service as a child or something? If every game becomes a GaaS game that requires you to sink hundreds of hours into them, guess what? People won't subscribe to Game Pass for that, they'll just play the games they want to play. The reason Game Pass is so successful is because people are wanting to play many different types of games.

If you think Starfield, Elder Scrolls 6, Fable, Avowed, Outer Worlds 2, etc. are going to be GaaS oriented gacha games than I don't know what to tell you because you're already lost and your bias is too strong. Microsoft makes money off of the subscription fee, they are going to make people want to buy Game Pass, they aren't going to try and milk every dollar out of people with predatory microtransactions because that will cost them tons of Game Pass subscribers, which again, is going to be a massive revenue.

I know you're going to try and use Halo Infinite and FH5 as examples of how Microsoft is only doing GaaS now, but those franchises have always been multiplayer oriented (or at least a very strong focus on multiplayer/online components), and of course every multiplayer game in existence will have microtransactions (and that was true long before Game Pass), and only Halo's campaign is in Game Pass
 

Nyxir

Member
His too worried that Sony will go the MS route and that TLOU factions will be filled with MTX (which it will) and there is nothing wrong with that If the game is good and fun to play which I believe it will be.
The irony that the first one was a horrible MTX shitfist and pay to win.
 
Top Bottom