freenudemacusers
Member
"used to"
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Xbox One: Details on Connectivity, Licensing (24 hour check-in) and Privacy Features
- Thread starter mcfrank
- Start date
Angelus Errare
Banned
App store or iTunes? Because if you're talking about iTunes there's a huge difference.
1. I can play the MP3s I bought from iTunes on ANY device
2. If Apple shut down today those MP3s would still work
3. I don't need to phone in to Apple to play my MP3s
4. Even though MP3s are digital, I "own" in the sense I can make a backup and put it on a external, make another copy and put it on a thumb drive, upload another copy to google/amazon.
If you're talking about App Store there are some small differences
1. Price
2. Some apps go free for a day as promo
3. You don't need an internet/mobile connection to use most of your apps
4. You can "return" an app if you don't like it (it's a 24hr window)
5. In the event Apple shuts down tomorrow, all your apps still work.
Context. Hes asking about whether or not there was backlash for itunes and steam when they first launched with DRM.
What's happening now with those two platforms is pretty irrelevant.
They offered some DRM music in 2007 or something then fully switched sometime in 2009 or after.
Any publicly traded company will look at you like a $ but some are more clever about getting it out of you and some actually treat you like a partner. I don't think they will change their policy, but there will probably adjustments to be made.
Gillian Seed
Banned
So my Gamefly account will be useless with XBone?
digoutyoursoul
Member
freenudemacusers
Member
I think what is happening now is pretty relevant.
Nevermind that from day one I could listen to content offline. Imagine the backlash if apple required you to authenticate your ipod every 25 hours to continue using it for music.
IIRC, they had started offering some music DRM-free, but not all. I remember it being obnoxious trying to figure out what had DRM and what didn't, so I said "fuck iTunes" and have used Amazon 95% of the time ever since.
Yeees. You better believe it. Very much so. Particularly steam since it was a revolting mess. Valve bundled it with some extremely compelling software, yet it still was reviled by most users. In the beginning, at least.
One of those is a remnant of the old times. It's only mildly exaggerated.
Irrelevant to his question though. You harping on about how itunes is DRM free doesn't really answer whether or not there was backlash when it first launched and the way you worded it implied that itunes stuff never had DRM at all which is incredibly misleading.
Yes and no, Steam has evolved every time a serious issue has been brought up. As many have pointed out in the thread the sales, unlimited offline mode offset the downside of not being able to trade in your games.
In short, when you get 10 games for 50 bucks not many people complain.
And pirates? Well they will still pirate.
Gillian Seed
Banned
You would think there would be a rental pass code or something.
Until they announce something it is useless (unless you get a copy of the game first lololol)
digoutyoursoul
Member
They said rental is not available at launch but why not? They have figured out every other shitty trick. It's disappointing this console so far I have to say, I doubt I will even watch their E3 presser
Angelus Errare
Banned
More like what happened with those two platforms when they launched is pretty irrelevant because we're not in 2004 we're in 2013. Microsoft isn't competing with Apple and Valve of 2004. Microsoft isn't servicing costumers from 2004. This kind of thinking is the same reason Windows Phone isn't doing well, MS isn't competing with Phone OSes from 2004, they're competing with phone OSes from 2013 nothing can change that. Typing it and saying it a million times won't change it either. No company can compare it's product to one that launched in the past.
It'd be like Honda bringing out a brand new car and comparing how great it is with a Toyota from 2004...who the hell wants to know how well it holds up against a car that's 11 years old?
Then tell him his question is garbage. Don't pretend like itunes never had DRM and feed him confusing nonanswers. SMH
SymbolicGamer
Banned
I'm accepting it because the immediate downsides really don't bother me. Don't get me wrong, the complaints people have are totally valid, but none of it applies to me.
My Xbox stays in my house. I'm always connected to the internet. I don't buy used games. I don't rent games. I don't lend games to friends.
I simply don't have a reason to be upset about the licensing issues or 24 hour check-in.
The one thing that does have me worried won't happen anytime soon, and it's probably something Microsoft will have resolved before it does.
Yeees. You better believe it. Very much so. Particularly steam since it was a revolting mess. Valve bundled it with some extremely compelling software, yet it still was reviled by most users. In the beginning, at least.
One of those is a remnant of the old times. It's only mildly exaggerated.
ha, oh those were the days.
Thanks. I was talking about Apple's policies in general but mostly app store. And my question was a little more basic than that. To me, the whole issue with this latest news is that customers feel their rights are being infringed upon and I was wondering if there was similar pushback/outcry when other platforms reduced consumer rights in somewhat similar ways. Now I fully recognize that MS has not shown that they intend to deliver similar benefits and they have certainly not earned any trust/benefit of the doubt.
shinra-bansho
Member
Consumers organically transitioned to digital storefronts provided by Amazon, Apple, Netflix etc. And on the PC to digital distribution services like Steam, GOG etc.
They were incentivized to do so through convenience, through price, through selection etc.
But for those that wanted to purchase a book, CD, DVD or BluRay to have the physical item and use it as a physical product - they were free to do so.
The problem here is that Microsoft, publishers and game retail are trying to pretend that a physical purchase is a digital download. They want to have their cake and eat it to.
They can't or won't incentivize their digital storefronts with deep discounts because they're beholden to their retail "partners" to sell their proprietary hardware to create an installed base. (Anybody who thinks this will lead to cheaper digital prices should realise this.) Similarly, publishers provide retailers with pre-order bonuses because they're still a big part of moving their software.
So people aren't transitioning like with other entertainment media.
What they've delivered here is the frankenproduct - all the restrictions of digital with none of the benefits. But it's the best of both worlds for them and their partners.
freenudemacusers
Member
I understand that, and yeah, my first post wasn't worded clearly. I'm simply pointing out that the context of now is a lot more relevant than the context of 2009 (when apple dropped DRM from music). Apple seems to have struck a fairly reasonable set of restrictions on content, and microsoft for whatever reason has gone even further The 24 hour thing is super annoying for me, especially since I visit grandparents who do not have the internet at home, outside of spotty 3g.
I can't say I'm particularly fond of where the gaming world is headed. Sure, good games will likely continue to be made, but all these restrictions and red-tape, guidelines and restraints, sort of suck the ease and fun out of what should be a simple hobby.
"Sorry Johnny, I already loaned out my game to Timmy. Plus, you haven't even been on my friends list for 30 days. Don't worry, I tell you what, if X publisher is willing to trade-in this other game for what will likely be a miniscule amount, with the money I may or may not even be able to get, I'll put it towards the game you'd like to play together. But assuming you just moved into a new house, or you have an unreliable Internet connection, just try to make sure you've connected to your console by then within the past 24 hours so we can at least make use of this material which oddly enough doesn't even really feel like we own it."
"Sorry Johnny, I already loaned out my game to Timmy. Plus, you haven't even been on my friends list for 30 days. Don't worry, I tell you what, if X publisher is willing to trade-in this other game for what will likely be a miniscule amount, with the money I may or may not even be able to get, I'll put it towards the game you'd like to play together. But assuming you just moved into a new house, or you have an unreliable Internet connection, just try to make sure you've connected to your console by then within the past 24 hours so we can at least make use of this material which oddly enough doesn't even really feel like we own it."
NullPointer
Member
They get all the carrots, their customers get all the sticks.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yep.
And it's going to be a harder battle with books and games.
Music there was the argument that the labels could make royalties from internet radio sites like Pandora once that law changed, on demand services like Spotify etc. Bands/artists make most of their money from touring and merch sales, so a lot were never super supportive of DRM (with notable exceptions like Metallica) and they did succeed in getting the free music sharing programs like Napster shut down. But couldn't do anything about torrents etc. since they can be used to share any files, rather than designed specifically to illegally share copyrighted music files like Napster and similar programs.
With games, sales are really all they have. Rentals too I guess. So they really have incentive to stop piracy, limit lending and reselling etc.
With books there's nothing but sales.
Movies are the closest to music I guess in that most profit still comes from the box office rather than DVD/Bluray sales, other than for direct to video films of course. TV shows mostly make money by getting ratings and selling ads, so similar argument there.
So I think we'll see books and games be the two media forms most reluctant to go digital without DRM. And even movies/tv I'm not sure will go DRM free for digital downloads very easily either.
It certainly seems so but since I do like the game makers at MS I do hope that some of the steam like App Store benefits see the light of day
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
This is definitely a problem. They're forcing digital on everyone all at once as discs are nothing but a delivery method now--albeit one that has some limited resell/trade in options.
They should have been more gradual this gen and found ways to incentivize people into moving away from discs and into downloads. Make downloads $10-20 cheaper than discs (to at least somewhat offset losing ability to resell). Later in generation start putting some major releases up digitally a week, or even a month, before the disc release date.
Things to get people trying digital, liking the convenience of it etc. Not shoving it down everyone's throat all at once, and all the confusion with the discs etc.
That I don't agree with.
Other than the stupid have to check in every 24 hours, all the benefits/convenience of digital are there for people who just eschew the install discs and buy downloadable versions from the marketplace.
Pricing is another problematic matter of course. But otherwise you get the convenience of not having to go to a store or wait for delivery, not having a physical copy to dispose of when you're done and never want to play the game again (assuming you're not a collector), no need to swap discs and so forth. Pretty much all the stuff that appeals to me about digital distribution is there--other than the prices probably won't be steam like ever this generation, and lack of offline play mode with the 24 hour checks--which honestly would likely never affect me as I can't recall the last time my internet was down for more than a couple hours.
But price will be the kicker for me as I'm not paying the same prices for digital downloads that can't be resold. They drop prices on those so that they're generally always at least $10-20 cheaper than the disc version,then I'd give it strong consideration. But I don't see that happening. But convenience wise, it's fine by me--I don't like the 24 hour check in, but in practice it's unlikely to affect me.
jamesinclair
Banned
So I keep hearing people say "when does your internet go out for 24 hours lol!!"
But wouldnt the following scenario qualify as well?
You play a game Monday.
Now its friday, tropical storm andrea is outside, and youve lost internet. Power still good. Cant surf neogaf, so you load up the old bone....
As its been over 24 hours, youre fucked right?
Intenrt may have only been out for 30 minutes, but you cant play until it comes back, correct?
But wouldnt the following scenario qualify as well?
You play a game Monday.
Now its friday, tropical storm andrea is outside, and youve lost internet. Power still good. Cant surf neogaf, so you load up the old bone....
As its been over 24 hours, youre fucked right?
Intenrt may have only been out for 30 minutes, but you cant play until it comes back, correct?
I think it still checks in between Monday and Friday in your scenario, even if you haven't been using it.
Marty Chinn
Member
Given that it's in a low power sleep mode. It will likely have talked to the servers while you weren't using it to validate. It's also going to do auto patches and stuff like that too while you're not using it.
NullPointer
Member
The 24 hour check-in and the 1-hour check-in on secondary consoles is an incredibly big deal.
shinra-bansho
Member
I was referring to the retail products, rather than digital. A physical Xbone game purchase essentially has the restrictions of digital, but you're still subject to the inconvenience, selection and pricing of retail - c.f. books, music, games.
Instead of trying to incentivize their online storefronts with carrots, they ended up shoving sticks into retail products. And as a consequence they even ended up adding a system-wide DRM onto digital products.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Really that's just up to person on whether it's a huge deal.
I don't like it, but it wouldn't really affect me. I could live with it if I had to, I guess is what I'm saying.
My internet is rarely down period, much less for more than a day. I try to only live in places where I know I have a few different ISP options (I look that up when comparing places) as having good internet is crucial for me as I work at home a lot, stream a lot etc.
Secondary consoles are completely moot for me as it's just me (and soon my non-gaming fiancee) at home--will never have roommates again (and haven't for ages) and I'm never having kids. None of my local friends game at all, so all my gaming is at home and on my main console.
So again, this stuff wouldn't really affect me. I just don't like it in principle and will likely go PS4 if they don't require online checks AND doesn't have some other way for publishers to restrict used game sales.
But at the end of the day, it wouldn't hamper my gaming (other than a VERY rare occurence when my internet was down for more than a day--and I can live without gaming a few days--I'm lucky to get more than 5 hours in most weeks anyway). So I'd get all the convenience I want out of digital gaming--other than the prices likely sucking and being the same as game discs currently which is BS and what bothers me the most about all of this.
You know, in the wake of the NSA revelations where it has been stated that the US government has direct access to data from companies including Google, Apple, and Facebook, fears of possible invasions of privacy become all the more pertinent.
The Guardian also states:
Could it be that the CIA has access to your kinect? It seems crazy, but there is a very real possiblity they do.
CIA chief, general Petraeus, stated last year that these new online devices will be used to spy on people.
It seems we're heading towards a scary future where always on devices will be used to spy on US citizens.
The Guardian also states:
Could it be that the CIA has access to your kinect? It seems crazy, but there is a very real possiblity they do.
CIA chief, general Petraeus, stated last year that these new online devices will be used to spy on people.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/
It seems we're heading towards a scary future where always on devices will be used to spy on US citizens.
webkatt
Member
As long as you're consle is plugged into the wall you'll be fine. The 24 hour connect will be done automatically as the Xbone is "always on"
So if you leave your home for a week and don't take your Xbone, the console will authorize it every 24 hours as long as it is:
A.) Plugged into the wall for power
B.) Has a internet connection.
You don't need to turn on the Xbone once a day.
Still a shitty move I don't agree with
Calls for boycott are always met with mockery on Gaf. But really, that's the only option that remains for consumers, if they want to send the message this is not OK.
As a consumer who purchased 3 Xbox 360s, the joke is already on me. But Microsoft won't get my console gaming dollars this gen.
The press is uniquely positioned here, going into e3. So far, I'm pretty pleased with the coverage of this Microsoft DRM horror show. For the most part, the press has been all over this, and they're telling it like it is. IGN and some others, notwithstanding.
Microsoft decides they don't like the bad press, and they start cancelling e3 round tables and one on one interviews, etc. Microsoft is cramming their DRM, used games, always on policies down all of our throats. We will LOVE whatever crap they force down our throats and we will gush about it, or we can shut the hell up. Well, I vote we shut the hell up.
As in screw them. Call Microsoft's bluff. If I'm press I get as many of my peers together, and actively NOT participate in celebrating/sensationalizing Microsoft's new gaming world order. How would Microsoft feel if all the important press *skipped* their booths, didn't publish any praiseworthy articles - only scathing criticisms of Microsoft's corporate bullying.
Of course that won't happen. I guess it's not very journalisty to boycott and protest stuff by NOT covering it. But I would love to see this blow up on MS, I really would.
Anyways I digress. Will. Not. Buy.
As a consumer who purchased 3 Xbox 360s, the joke is already on me. But Microsoft won't get my console gaming dollars this gen.
The press is uniquely positioned here, going into e3. So far, I'm pretty pleased with the coverage of this Microsoft DRM horror show. For the most part, the press has been all over this, and they're telling it like it is. IGN and some others, notwithstanding.
Microsoft decides they don't like the bad press, and they start cancelling e3 round tables and one on one interviews, etc. Microsoft is cramming their DRM, used games, always on policies down all of our throats. We will LOVE whatever crap they force down our throats and we will gush about it, or we can shut the hell up. Well, I vote we shut the hell up.
As in screw them. Call Microsoft's bluff. If I'm press I get as many of my peers together, and actively NOT participate in celebrating/sensationalizing Microsoft's new gaming world order. How would Microsoft feel if all the important press *skipped* their booths, didn't publish any praiseworthy articles - only scathing criticisms of Microsoft's corporate bullying.
Of course that won't happen. I guess it's not very journalisty to boycott and protest stuff by NOT covering it. But I would love to see this blow up on MS, I really would.
Anyways I digress. Will. Not. Buy.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
That makes more sense.
But on the other hand it will help with pricing as retail stores will still have sales and price drops to get rid of install discs they bought that are just rotting on the shelves. Where if it was all digital publishers could keep prices up longer as there's not that issue of too much stock that has to go driving prices down sooner.
And there's the fact that there will be some limited way to trade in/sell the discs so users can at least recoup a few bucks, which they can't in a digital worlds.
So there are some small benefits to these install discs being around I guess.
But yeah, using them does forgo the convenience of digital downloads for sure, so I get your point now on that front.
100% agree here. They should be incentivizing us into it. I'd be an easy sell personally. Price digital downloads consistently $10-20 less than disc versions and I'll always opt for that as I'm trending in decluttering my life and reducing physical possessions as I've said in a few thread. But I'm not willing to pay the same as physical media to do so, it has to be cheaper since I don't truly own anything and can't recoup a little money by reselling.
It can probably see who is talking and if someone isn't there it won't turn it off.
maabus1999
Member
XBOX Kinect 2now uses facial and lip recognition to process commands on top of voice to determine which player is doing what, aka Doubt you can do this.
webkatt
Member
Probably,
I was just remembering during the reveal how peoples Kinects were responding to the presentation commands
samus4ever
Banned
With all the game drm news I was wondering, will you have to jump through hoops if you want to resell the console itself?
SymbolicGamer
Banned
Not for me. I have no problem driving or walking to the nearest store and getting what I want. There are online stores that sell physical games as well, so inconvenience and selection are not a problem. As far as pricing goes I'd rather pay extra and get something physical than save a few bucks and have nothing to show for it. As I type this, I'm staring at my Mjolnir helmet, Noble Team Statue, and Aliens Power Loader. None of which I would have on display if I went digital.
I'd imagine if you lived in an apartment or dorm, space would be an issue and digital would be the way to go, but I've got two entire rooms just dedicated to my gaming.
Chicks totally dig the Nintendo room.
maquiladora
Member
I don't think we've heard anything about that yet.
BoboBrazil
Member
I wonder how many returns stores will get from people who don't realize it require an online connection to play games? I can see it being a substantial amount, especially from parents on the day after Christmas when all those wonderful new games little Timmy is playing suddenly stop working.
DanteFox
Member
They will if people allow Microsoft to get away with this, and by "get away with this," I mean if you give them your money.
An article by Forbes about what implications the NSA has on the Xbox One:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...c-spying-program-makes-xbox-one-even-scarier/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...c-spying-program-makes-xbox-one-even-scarier/