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[Represent.]

thats pure incompetence. ridiculous statement.

 

[JimmyRustler]

Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?

Watch the 30 minutes credits of an AC and you’ll know.

 

[Strider Highwind]

Yikes

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

thats pure incompetence. ridiculous statement.

15 years is probably hyperbolic, but we know 16 will take place over the entire world and not just a region or two, including multiple cities, towns, dungeons and large environments, whilst also offering high level cinematics and visuals. As well as distinct art styles betweem the 5-6 different kingdoms, as is common in FF. Makes complete sense to go down the open zone / wide linear approach here.

FF15 went openworld and it was an unfinished and underwhelming empty experience.

 

[Mister Wolf]

"Younglings" is his nice way of saying simple minded.

 

[KXVXII9X]

So, I wasn't off when I said making an open world game massively lengthens development time. I hope this smaller scale allows them to populate the game with more interesting content.

I'm really glad the game isn't turn based to be honest. I don't hate to turn based games and used to prefer them, but I think most traditional turn-based systems are extremely dated. I think Final Fantasy 7 Remake was a nice blend of turn base and action combat. Allowing you to be strategic while keeping the faster paced combat. Same with games like Xenoblade. There are many opportunities for action combat to grow and thrive by incorporating more physics and better AI. Things like contextual animations and actions and using the environment and to your advantage (Zelda BotW) can offer more engaging and dynamic combat.

 

[Smiggs]

Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?

I sort of get the impression he's talking about a true 'world', not a smaller in game area/continent. Even as big as a game like Odyssey is, some of the classic JRPGs from years past could absolutely dwarf games like that and BOTW if the whole world map was completely fleshed out.

If they continued making the FF7R world map as detailed as they did Midgar in part 1, the game would be absolutely massive.

 

[KXVXII9X]

I love SRPGs where you have to move and position your team (do I try to keep my distance with ranged attacks? Rush in for a quick kill but leave myself open to counterattack if I fail? Try to lure the enemy into a less advantageous position? Etc). There are plenty of strategic decisions and risk/reward propositions you have to make.

I’m bored to death of traditional turn-based JRPG battle systems where your guys stand on one side and the enemy stands on the other side. Either they’re piss-easy and you just pick “attack” from a menu until you win, or else they try to ratchet up the difficulty and end up being very tedious.

Good riddance. If S-E wants to give us another FF Tactics then I’d be overjoyed. But I’m good if they never make another ATB game again.

I have the same exact reaction to you in preferring tactical turn base games over traditional ones. Traditional ones are so overdone at this point and feel shallow. SRPG's on the other hand still offer much more in the way of player choice and risk and reward. Divinity Original Sin 2 is a great example of that. It is much more involved than a simple turn-based game using the elements, environment, positioning, and cover to your advantage. Your combat skills are also used in and out of battle seamlessly. Hopefully with the success of Triangle Strategy and hopefully Diofield Chronicle, they will consider FF Tactics.

 

[kunonabi]

Fuck young people for not liking turn based games.

The funny thing is a lot of them do. And I'm still wondering where Square got this notion to begin with. It's not like a mainline Final Fantasy title has ever outright flopped just because it was turn based and other big rpg franchises are still doing quite well with turn based combat.

It's the same with their crazy open world comments. They've been bitching about it since the PS3 era but Nintendo manages to pump out 4 Xenoblade games with relative ease despite their own troubles with the HD transition.

I think it's less about open worlds being too difficult and young people not liking turn-based games and more that Square is just painfully incompetent when it comes to Final Fantasy.

 

[cash_longfellow]

I’m far from a youngling but I can’t stand the traditional DQ/FF JRPG battle systems anymore. Good riddance.

Also glad it’s not open world. Last thing I need is another game filled with zany quest giver NPCs asking for you to forage for tomatoes and shit (and you know that’s what we would get).

Same! I grew up on NES and SNES rpgs, and I just don’t have the patience for that battle style anymore…I much more enjoy action RPGs these days.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

"Younglings" is his nice way of saying simple minded.

Yes, it’s sad they are dumbing the game down for the gaijin dudebro audience. Too simple minded for complex strategic gameplay like “pick attack from a menu until everything is dead” or “use the kind of element that can hurt this enemy” or “use a potion if your HP is low”.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I'm the targeted youngling suck it boomers

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

As for turn-based / action. I'm not young and grew up playing FF, but prefer action overall. FF7R best of both worlds and should be the template going forward imo.

 

[A.Romero]

Honestly I don't see turn based making a come back for games like this. That genre is covered by indie games pretty well and even some stuff like Yakuza. There is just not mass appeal for that.

TBH I like turn based but I liked FFVII Remake stuff better.

 

[jimmypython]

Give me flying mounts then I will be happy

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

I like turn-based, I like real-time action. I like open-world, I like linear. I like JRPG's, I like WRPG's, I like SRPG's. I like every FF for different reasons and can't stand the fandom that chooses a favourite and shits on the rest. The real problem is with a one dimensional player base, not the design choices most of these devs make.

FFXVI is one of my most anticipated games, can't wait, the release of a new FF is always an event and I know they will deliver.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Yes, it’s sad they are dumbing the game down for the gaijin dudebro audience. Too simple minded for complex strategic gameplay like “pick attack from a menu until everything is dead” or “use the kind of element that can hurt this enemy” or “use a potion if your HP is low”.

They think their style of turn based is complex, which is laughable. Those are simple minded compared to the likes of games based off DND 5E like Baldur's Gate 3 and Solasta.

 

[th4tguy]

This was FF6's "world" for instance, which just amounted to 3 islands. You could absolutely do a FF world to Genshin's scale and make it feel massive. Just because Genshin is a mega-continent doesn't mean you couldn't split it into 2-3 sub-continents.

Look at world of Warcraft as another example of splitting large continents up. It can be done and still be interesting.

 

[Black_Stride]

Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?

The credits of those Ubisoft games are longer than Avengers Endgame, and they still snub some devs/studios.
Further between any two key points Ubi games basically have nothing or procedural shit....like shit shit that you'd rather just fast travel over, cuz no one likes stepping in shit.

They didnt tell this kid what was going to happen in this take or hes already a hell of an actor.

 

[Xeaker]

Yoshida went on to explain that he believes the evolution in console technology has pushed RPGs towards action-based mechanics rather than turn-based:

Pathetic. At least DQ11 delivered.

 

[DerivedDataCache]

Lol everybody losing their minds when games now take 4-8 years to make.
Here comes the new benchmark: 15 YEARS.

 

[Lethal01]

They think their style of turn based is complex, which is laughable. Those are simple minded compared to the likes of games based off DND 5E like Baldur's Gate 3 and Solasta.

I prefer action but it's very dissapointing that 2 trailers in the game looks like
"just straight up DMC with damage numbers" instead of borrowing elements from it's ATB origins like FF7:remake did.

Seems like a big step back from some unique to just a generic action game.

 

[Popup]

For me, it feels like the developers continue to regard FF as a showcase of technology and graphics as well as story telling and gameplay. They obviously have to make compromises but I find myself drifting away from FF now.

Personally I am more than happy for cutting edge tech to make way for art direction, and prefer the overall package in games like the Dragon Quest series, Persona (after persisting with it) and Level 5 titles like the older PS2 Dark Chronicle and more recent Ni No Kuni.

I love the strategy of turn based, the mixing of personas or items in cauldrons mechanics, the collectables (and the way they are presented),and building mechanics on games that feature those.

You can keep the story alive in these games, still have a huge world and the game feels more alive and immersive to me somehow still. The trouble is, there are increasingly fewer titles that hit the mark unfortunately.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Is this just a linear action game then?

So it's just final fantasy by name?

 

[YukiOnna]

Like I said last time he talked about it, I don't want open world, so I'm happy. I don't care if it's turn based or action, combat looks good regardless.

Unfortunately, this is all old info and nothing new from Famitsu.

Is this just a linear action game then?

So it's just final fantasy by name?

Zone/Area based world ARPG since it's a globe spanning adventure than one location.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Man, it’s almost like some of those open world games, or any games with fields and such, also aren’t meant to be exact scale or something…..

Like, does he think in Ocarina of Time that Kokiri Forest is actually meant to be literally 3 minutes away from Hyrule Castle?

It’s called scaling, seriously. Anyone could have a game‘s entire world, as long as it’s not Earth as we know its scale and layout, be open world and work. Nobody is asking for a realistic scale of a planet. That would mean walking between towns would take actual DAYS of play time. No open world game I’m aware of bothers with that level of realism for obvious reasons.

So really, good job. You just made the developer’s argument even more baffling.

How is that any better? If it’s “open world” but you scale it down to the point where snow-covered mountains, swamps, rainforest, deserts, and beaches are all within a couple minutes’ jog of each other, all that does is make the world feel tiny and not at all like the world-spanning adventure of the classic FF games.

I’d much rather just have a world map with towns and dungeons.

 

[Belthazar]

Look at world of Warcraft as another example of splitting large continents up. It can be done and still be interesting.

World of Warcraft is not an open-world game.

 

[lovetalkgames]

Develop an actual battle system and combat mechanics instead of simply relying on turn-based.

 

[Captain Toad]

So this is not an open world game? That’s really weird.

Thank goodness. I never want to see FF go the route they did with FFXV again.

 

[Kimahri]

Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?

Words are important, read what he said, again.

"global story within an open world"

This suggests the story is quite big in scope, covering many various regions. His point is obviously that the world they'd have to create to make xvi open world would be way to massive, and thus much larger than assassin's creed games.

So thank fuck for that then, AC is toobig for its own good as is.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Youngling love turn based lol look at all the mobile crap they love.

Square is a shell of its former sell anyway.

 

[JimboJones]

Disappointing but expected. At least they are serving turn based fans with Dragon Quest, Bravely Default and other games.

 

[lh032]

Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?

but they play the same : (

 

[AmuroChan]

I'm not sure the younger generation will all of a sudden jump into FFXVI just because it's action-based. S-E has to remember who their core audience is. The core fans who grew up playing FF are now in their 30s and 40s. Trying to make a mainline FF game appeal to 15 year old's seems like a strange direction to take.

 

[KungFucius]

In terms of manpower, Ubisoft are several times large than Square Enix.
It is one of the reasons why they are able to do annual and biennial releases with AAA budgets.

Tbh quantity doesn't necessarily equate to quality.

Valhalla shows that higher quantity reduces overall quality.

FF could go back to an overworld (map with encounters and obstacles)+ detailed dungeons/towns model and make that work. Honestly, I have missed that aspect of FF since they dropped it back in the PS2 era.

 

[Kataploom]

I'm happy for many devs ditching "big open worlds" where they don't make sense, I'll always prefer semi-open worlds as I played all my life, those feel much better paced and less of a chore. I was talking to a friend that he started another BOTW game and I was like "man, just continue your last saved game, it's not like you can't go anywhere and do anything anyway, you're just unnecessarily handicapped lol". Can't imagine myself reseting my BOTW saved game, I've already put like 200 hours into it and am happy with what I got... But for Dark Souls I'll probably continue the NG+ since I already know everything and the game isn't near as big.

Regarding the "15 years" comment he made, maybe the team size or budget is not as big as an enormous Ubisoft game, I hope so, I'm fearing the industry going that route because that clearly isn't sustainable...

 

[Celcius]

Persona 5 Royal is amazing, has sold tons of copies, and is turn based. I don’t understand why Square has completely given up on it.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

It’s funny, I used to think I was all smart and sophisticated because I played “thinking man” strategic turn-based games like FF VI and Chrono Trigger, while my friends were playing games that actually required some skill and mastery (Castlevania IV, Contra 3, Super Metroid, Madden, etc).

 

[RCU005]

When I was playing Horizon Forbidden West I realized that practically all open world games are in a post-apocalyptic setting. I wondered how long it would take to make a game in the city. I believe GTA is the only one and it does take a decade to make.

Also, I think that developers put themselves into a corner when popularizing open world games, because now people would expect bigger games, so we have those checklist open worlds.

I’d much prefer substantial linear games with great stories, but the majority want huge games even if they are empty. As good as Zelda BOTW is (due to gameplay mechanics) the open world is empty. The new Sonic Frontiers is just a barren world (and it’s not even true open world)

I don’t get why people would want to play more on an empty world than having a great experience in a “not-so-open world”

My guess is that Final Fantasy 16 will benefit greatly by not being open world, and people will love it (assuming the story and combat is good).

The PS3 had FPS craze, and it died out a lot on PS4, so I hope the open world craze would die soon. We need more variety in games that will benefit from not being open world.

 

[Comandr]

 

[Esca]

In YoshiP I trust

 

[March Climber]

It would be fun to make a bet to see how many people come into the thread, not reading the OP, thinking Open World simply means a big landmass and not actually a fully explorable non-procedurally generated planet.

Persona 5 Royal is amazing, has sold tons of copies, and is turn based. I don’t understand why Square has completely given up on it.

From what I've googled Persona 5 + P5R sold just over 6.5 million, FFXV sold over 10 million. Square wants that bigger number. Also they haven't completely given up on it. Dragon Quest had it and quite a few of their non-AAA products have featured turn based systems. For the time being, Final Fantasy is too big of a franchise and has moved on.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Squares version of action combat really sucks IMO.

 

[March Climber]

Squares version of action combat really sucks IMO.

It's been hit and miss, depends on who the combat lead is.

 

[Fuz]

ditched its traditional turn-based battle system in order to appeal to younglings​

 

[RCU005]

Dragon Quest had it

Dragon Quest 12 is confirmed to have a different combat system. I think they even said it would not be turned-based.

 

[Jinzo Prime]

Yoshi-p out here making some pretty bold statements here lately. I think Yoshida is one of the good guys at Square, so I hope his plans work out, but XVI has got to deliver now.

 

[manfestival]

I find this to be awesome and great news. Open world was a disaster for FF15 IMO.

 

[March Climber]

I find this to be awesome and great news. Open world was a disaster for FF15 IMO.

The oddly developed open world was only one of many of 15's problems.

 

[nordique]

I prefer command action rpgs to turn based, so for me this is welcomed news (I loved FF7 Remake)

But I understand this is doing away with FF tradition so I understand those who are upset