Considering P4U2 is busted as hell and GG Xrd just started to become super busted, it looks pretty good so far. Once the new wears off I'm sure it'll drop but it really doesn't look bad.
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Fighting Games Weekly | March 30 - April 6 | High Speed Korean Downloads
- Thread starter enzo_gt
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Considering P4U2 is busted as hell and GG Xrd just started to become super busted, it looks pretty good so far. Once the new wears off I'm sure it'll drop but it really doesn't look bad.
It's too much, especially given that Tekken is one of the more complicated games out there without the extra mechanics. Newer players will pick other games because they can learn them in 1/4 to 1/10th the time.
Is Xrd looking "patchable" busted or "fundamentally screwed up" busted.
Karsticles
Member
Do tell about Xrd.
YRCs basically fuck up the entire game and some of the restanding stuff is straight up dumb. It's not hopeless, but I am really turned off by seeing some of the YRC stuff. They'll probably have to heavily retool that mechanic if the game keeps developing like this.
This make's a RT from earlier make a lot more sense (IRL YRCs)
Solo man... Clone chars man...
I mean... Tekken Tag 1 didn't have that problem. And electric sidesteps and lightdashing were norms back in that day and those would make you totally give up Tekken now if the game came out today... Besides, people would laugh at you hard.
Yeah seriously, TZ was that tough, but they will love you if you humble yourself, which the feeling is like going to a strict dojo, but you will definetely improve. But it reminded me why Tekken Nation was needed on those days. Too bad that place initially was ran horrendously, and it failed to be the nicer Tekken place everyone could hope for.
WesternHeretic
Member
I played Tekken from Tekken 1 to Tekken 5. Didn't play Tekken 5.1, DR, and 6.
I bought Tekken Tag 2 and when I turned it on it felt like a new franchise. Just so many mechanics, strings that I had no clue about from skipping the last 3 versions.
While I picked up SF4 after 5-6 years of not playing 3S or ST and it felt like nothing change besides FADC. Same goes for marvel 3 from Marvel 2 just added in TAC/X-factor. It's like oh some new mechanics, but generally same game.
Tekken just felt like a whole new monster. Like I have to relearn the whole damn system.
Are there any devs/games left Mike Z hasn't thrown shade at?
Parallax Scroll
Banned
Sanford playing mvc2 and mashing hard on a MAS stick. I forget what event it happened at.
DEATH;107097476 said:
It's interesting how VF's community tended towards being super-nice for the most part, yet Tekken's went more in the Dustloop direction.
But yeah, the BS was much greater in Tag 1, but a game with that degree of BS coming out today would get it patched out or the game would fail- it's a sign (to me) of how standards have improved today and things are better (Though some folks feel the opposite)
It's why I say games like 3S and CVS2 would have been better games if they had modern standards and patching applied to them.
I don't like what Skullgirls became gameplaywise, but it is a very well-designed game- I think Mike Z has proven his chops. Most of his shots have had pretty good reasoning behind them.
Parallax Scroll
Banned
sf4 volt http://www.twitch.tv/nycfurby
Someone on IRC was explaining to me how people would put in RC inputs after every attack in a chain when they have 25-49.99% meter and OS between the chain attack and a YRC if they burst/dead angle the chain, on block or on hit. Kind of reminds me of the burst OS you could do in MBAA onward out of certain chains, but this is way more applicable. Sounds real fun to deal with.
The problem is, what if people liked that bug?
In this sense, Backdash Cancelling was found and became widely used and loved. Now Tekken 4 came out and removed that bug and people didn't like it at all... The thing is, you don't want to patch anything until you see what the players came up to.
Hey, Marvel is a prime example of that... YES NO PATCH FOR YOU FOLKS... MWAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah, this came about today, along with a video showing how Zato can loop unblocks on you via restand shenanigans. Don't forget using YRC to escape mix ups and possibly punish people going for them. The mechanic is about as dumb as it could get
Karsticles
Member
UMvC3 changes were pretty well received by most of the community.
Each Tekken game just built on the next but, in the process, it became one of the most exciting evolutions I have witnessed in a franchise. But if you skipped Tekken 6, I can see how learning the TA would require extra work because you have to understand bounds to really learn the TA. In its current state, TTT2 can seem complex at first but I also find the complexity to be a little exaggerated. I also feel the same way for the Souls games so I don't know.
The TA system, though, is kind of very addictive when it gets going for you. I have never spent so much time in practice mode in any Tekken game as I have in TTT2. If I had to give an award for the most creative mechanic from last gen, it would be the TA system. I am still floored how they were able to balance it between all the characters. I mean the arcade version served as the beta and hwoarang unblockable and other things got patched before the console release but still.
DEATH;107099018 said:
People sometimes like things that are bad for them. As for folks hating on Tekken 4, I thought that was mostly due to JFLS Jin and the throw system changes. I really wish Namco had tried harder to make Tekken 4 good instead of giving up on it so fast and then becoming so conservative with the series. (but it worked financially) I think the main reason people like bugs/glitches is because they can abuse them for easy wins (top players are guilty of this also)- and then folks agree in order to conform when they don't really agree, just like high school.
But yeah, Tekken did a good job with the Tag Assaults. Part of the reason I wish TTT2 ends up on Steam is for longevity's sake- I feel TTT2 is the end of an era for Tekken, and the game deserves to be immortalized and last beyond the life of the PS3. (Same reason I think the UM games deserve Steam as well). Steam will last longer than the PS4/XB1. I'm glad USF4 is getting a proper PC port for that reason as well.
That said, I can think of one counterexample which drives me nuts, and that's KOF98UM. I believe one of the beta builds took out the unblockables (which to me were super-BS, especially when you could combo then into DMs in a couple of weird cases), and some Japanese players complained and they were put back in. At least 2k2UM took them out (also took AG out)
You still had people vocally complain about the DHC trick being removed. There's that 20-30% of players (thanks EH poll on Edition Select) who are going to fall into the super-self-centered/entitled camp and who just want to play as much BS as they possibly can.
In MTG, you see these guys clogging up ban/unban threads all day with ridiculous/insane suggestions because they don't have a comprehension of how miserable they make things for most other people (or they know and just don't care.)
aMSa, the incredible yoshi from Apex, is streaming some project m
http://www.twitch.tv/amsayoshi
http://www.twitch.tv/amsayoshi
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Hmm.
I'll see if I can track down the video then. Thanks.
Tekken 4 also had ceilings and objects. I was a casual player then even though I didn't think of myself as one. In other words, I thought I was good but sucked and didn't really know it.
And yes, TTT2 is in severe need of a Steam release.
Not me. Tron and She Hulk got nerfed and they were part of my main team.
And then I had trouble finding replacement characters for those two. Though, I guess the Tron fire assist was kind of lame and was really in need of a downgrade. It's too late for a patch now but I would like another vs. game using a similar engine.
Karsticles
Member
I don't recall vocal opposition to the DHC glitch removal aside from folks who said it would reduce viable team composition, which is a fair point. Most folks saw its removal as a matter of when, not if.
I should have said it plainly, but I meant system changes.Not me. Tron and She Hulk got nerfed and they were part of my main team.
It's too late for a patch now but I would like another vs. game using a similar engine.
Even so, kirblar said that folks just hate change. You have legitimate reasons to be unhappy. Though Al_Rikir and Abegen both perform well with Tron, so she isn't entirely hopeless.
This is not only about change... especially for Tekken. People pour their hearts out playing and improving that the skills they had would last a lifetime, kinda like playing guitar or drawing and painting. Would you want all those things that you practiced suddenly go to waste? It's not having a negative impact on their wins, it's about taking away the things that they enjoy on that game..
People put alot of coins and spent so much time for the things that they practiced, because they loved it. And then you removed that for the newbie that don't wanna put in the work? Yes, some people can deal with that for the sake of supporting the franchise, but then the game also becomes less enjoyable too! I mean, it's hard to go back to other wines if you tasted better ones..
A very very minor portion of the player base was against DHC glitch removal. A vast majority wanted it gone because they saw it for what it was... a bug used to inflate damage in a game where damage was already so inflated. The same thing would've happened to TAC infinite removal... some MarlinPie fanboys will cry because "oh noes we can't have swag infinites anymore" but most people will see it as a much better decision.
And yeah there is always that camp who want their broken shit because they want the easy wins. Hell people STILL want Dante's original Hammer back!
UMVC3 did have some complaints about some changes from more than a very minor playerbase. Off the top of my head these were changes that many people didn't like:
*She Hulk/Tron point nerfs. People knew the Tron assist nerf was coming but they nerfed her as a point character as well! She Hulk was pretty much gutted. I don't think anyone really liked these changes to these characters.
*Zero getting the Buster cancel. Everyone saw this as a potentially huge change to the character that could be game breaking (and will you look at that!). Zero was a fine character without this chance, he just needed his LL changed and maybe his scaling. Now he just has too much going for him.
*The HUD and character art in the main screen.
*The side TAC exchange removing meter. It was purely put in the game to screw over Phoenix. Quite frankly they didn't really "fix" the TACs like they said they would.
*The assists having decay hit stun. Made some assists really bad for combos and thus saw much less play. Even made some players change their team (MarlinPie from Magneto to Doom).
But by and large most of the changes in UMVC3 were for the better and approved. Game would've been so much worse if it was still in the Vanilla state.
Every franchise in existence has made changes. The good players always adapt. The fans always come back if the quality is good. Tekken is no exception either, changes have been made across every game and the people who always played learned to adapt. Should I go on a rant because they took away Jin's JFLS from Tekken 4?
For the record... there is NEVER going to be a Tekken game where you "don't put in the work" and get wins. Newbies are never going to be good if they don't put in the work... the only thing that can change is designing the game so that players are given more incentive to put in that work which is required to get good.
I wouldn't consider it a fair point. Most people are good on this stuff and open to changes- but the ones who aren't are going to be hyper-vocal about it, and essentially have to get ignored. This is probably the same type of player who makes a Smurf account - they just like beating up on people because it makes them feel superior.
But if the game's not drawing new players, it's going to die off and leave you with no one playing. Complex systems being pruned may mean the game is simpler and feels somewhat "dumbed down" but those prior experiences will still be of use and still give you a massive skill edge to start from.DEATH;107100602 said:
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I still have my minor complaint, I fucking hate when they added back mashing for full super damage. Just let my buttons be! And vanilla hud is still better
can't believe they thought this was a good idea.
this annoys me too.I still have my minor complaint, I fucking hate when they added back mashing for full super damage. Just let my buttons be! And vanilla hud is still better
Could I get a link to that video?
Will co-sign. My near-30yo hands don't like that type of stuff.I still have my minor complaint, I fucking hate when they added back mashing for full super damage. Just let my buttons be! And vanilla hud is still better
Karsticles
Member
If it weren't rushed, maybe they would have reconsidered it.
The mashing is kind of addictive, but I would be cool with it leaving. I mash in Skullgirls even though it has no effect...I still have my minor complaint, I fucking hate when they added back mashing for full super damage. Just let my buttons be! And vanilla hud is still better
Also, Buckethead's team: I love it. I think it is a top tier team. The way he uses Morrigan is always so impressive. It looks nothing like ChrisG. Morrigan is one of three characters that can pay to get out of incoming mixups. Smart.
It's getting new players... It's just that you can't see them. I mean, Philippines is getting new players. Venenzuelan players are striving. Europe too. You look at Mastercup too and those are filling in the brim on players. If airfare ain't expensive, FR would even blow up. This is the time where it's just American thing...
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
Will co-sign. My near-30yo hands don't like that type of stuff.
I'm in my 30s. It annoys me, its uncomfortable , plus unnecessary wear on buttons. I don't remember, were people thirsting for that to come back? I guess some people truly love pushing buttons.
Get off my lawn!
Main thing about Tekken 4 that I didn't like (which was promptly removed in T5) was that many stages had elevations and depressions. This meant that many combos didn't work because of those elevations and depressions. So if you had a combo you had to go to every ramp on every stage to check if that combo still worked.
Also some characters had stage infinites. Lee had a super easy infinite on that small Wresteling cage type stage for example.
It's really weird... when Tekken 4 came out I was like "why the hell did they do this". Why did they rework so many characters? Why did they remove so many characters? Why did they remove mechanics/change up so many moves? Why is the camera so up close? Why are the effects so muted?
Turns out after over a decade I finally understood why they made those changes. Tekken 4 was basically their preemptive answer to prevent series fatigue. It's basically what some people want after TTT2 now only Namco already tried it with T4. Less characters/clones, less mechanics, more "realistic" combat, less focus on mobility, more environment interaction, better graphics/different engine, 1v1 game play after TTT1 etc.
I pretty much expect the next Tekken to be a Tekken 4 like game. They are probably going to introduce a few new mechanics but also subtract mechanics/characters. Fans of the series will probably not like it. We'll see what happens.
Edit: Forgot about button mashing but IIRC they said they got requests for that so it's not fair of me to list it as something that no one wanted because according to Capcom people DID want it.
Karsticles
Member
Nah, it was not a popular request. The reception was largely negative as well.
Nah Capcom definitely stated that they got requests for that which is why they put it in. They said they wanted that MVC2 feel of mashing buttons or whatever.
I remember this because I was shocked to see that people actually wanted that back.
I only play on Endless stages like Moonlight Wilderness. Easier to practice stuff in without walls getting in the way.
3 top 5 characters on the same team make a top tier team... YOU DON'T SAY!
Buckethead is always fun to watch. He takes a team that should be boring as shit(Zero+ Morridoom) and makes it genuinely entertaining to watch. Those Zero lightning extensions he has off of Shadow Blade assist are amazing! ..and those crossover counters into morrigan for a full combo! got damn!
Why, sure it was a popular request from the few remaining MvC2 players in Japan used as a microcosm to represent the Marvel community.
Please understand.
Karsticles
Member
Capcom always blames everything on the fans. It is even our fault that Megaman got canceled. Apparently folks didn't want it enough. I don't trust those claims for a second.
I only use crossover counters in chip damage emergencies. I love how he does that.
It's Capcpom after all.
But you really have to wonder WHY they did it. They had a very limited time to put the expansion out.. you would think they only put in stuff that they thought was absolutely imperative.
There is always that "sticks breaking early due to mashing" tin foil hat theory.
Bullet points are imperative. And they sure did use it as a bullet point.
Well, it's definitely not the fans' fault it got cancelled, but the fans certainly didn't make a good case for it being a popular venture when they put the petition together.
Why communities use petitions to narrow the scope of their objectives, I'll never understand.
ThatCrazyGuy
Member
I had a dream the other night that Capt. America could throw an air shield at apex of his uppercut. It cost ex meter to do it.
I have Capt America on the brain.
I have Capt America on the brain.
Karsticles
Member
What a great idea.