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Why did the Dreamcast fail?

The analog stick was slippery and just awful, the buttons were cheap, the d-pad was a joke, it only had 1 analog stick, the ergonomics were a mess it was thinner at the bottom making you held it like this \ /, the cable came at the top, the VMU/Rumble case was too close to the fingers. I'm not saying it was the reason because it wasn't but it didn't help either.

I'll give you the D-Pad, it's nonsensical to me why they went with such a poor design in the Dreamcast, even the VMU's D-Pad felt better, but the rest of the controller felt very solid. I never had any issues with it and I insist that the controller was the least of the Dreamcast's issues.
 

Celine

Member
The Dreamcast's "failure" --which for the most part, was a case of failing to meet the company's financial expectations-- was mostly the fault of Sega's own blunders in the past. The commercial failures of the Sega CD, 32X, and Saturn cost Sega a ton of money and left them with too little money to support a console-that was the primary catalyst of the Dreamcast being discontinued.
Sega problems came from a far but the Draemcast project was definitely failure.

It seems not many realize that the DC years was the period when Sega incurred the major losses.
Sega tried their hardest to push the system before the competition was out by selling the system at a loss.
They literally bought market share by eating the losses per system and yet sales were average.

More than 1 million for a dead system I think is relevant.
Clearing unsold stock at a ridiculous price is not really meaningful IMO.
 
Sega planned to support the DC with a lot of extensions like the zip drive, MP3 VMU and a dvd player or sorts but when you think about it, the megadrive pissed in everyone's mouths with the 32X and mega cd being expensive, hardly supported and being released so late in the console life.

The hype for PS2 was unreal where I lived, it was like a true next generation console with all the trailers and magazine video discs coming out before hand.

It's a shame, even my mother who isn't a tech person used to say she prefered the image quality of the dreamcast over the muddy look of early gen ps2 games.
 
GTA 3 was the game everyone wanted, and it was not coming for the DC.

This and many others. The PS2 had a justifiably frenzy hype because it just plain had better games than the Dreamcast. Sure not at launch, but everyone knew what blockbusters were on the horizon. Still images from the MGS2 and 'Gran Turismo 2000' trailers from E3 2000 were enough for me to chuck my Dreamcast.
 
GTA 3 was the game everyone wanted, and it was not coming for the DC.

I don't remember there being much hype around GTA3 before it was released. Ironically Shenmue was being hyped up more by the gaming media as the next big revolution in gaming, while GTA3 kind of sailed mostly under the radar during its development cycle. The real hype for GTA3 didn't really happen until after the game was released in 2001, which happened after the Dreamcast was discontinued. Though, I do remember there being rumors that GTA 3 was being considered for a Dreamcast port early in development (GTA 2 was released on the DC), but they never went anywhere beyond that.

It also reminds me that a port of Max Payne was slated for the Dreamcast as well. But yet again, that idea was dropped part way through development.
 

jay

Member
And I mean literally in the correct sense - you could get a Dreamcast free by signing up with SegaNet and they still couldn't move the systems.

That's not literally giving them away. Literally giving them away is giving them away, not giving them away as part of paying money for something else.
 

allan-bh

Member
I don't remember there being much hype around GTA3 before it was released. Ironically Shenmue was being hyped up more by the gaming media as the next big revolution in gaming, while GTA3 kind of sailed mostly under the radar during its development cycle. The real hype for GTA3 didn't really happen until after the game was released in 2001, which happened after the Dreamcast was discontinued. Though, I do remember there being rumors that GTA 3 was being considered for a Dreamcast port early in development (GTA 2 was released on the DC), but they never went anywhere beyond that.

I can't remember a big hype for GTA III too, was kinda a sleeper hit.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
What if questions come to mind here...

What if Bernie Stolar did not make the announcment that "Saturn is not our future" and Sega supported the Saturn through 1998/1999...despite all things the console was making Sega some money at least...especially in Japan...with that money they could have added some of it to the Dreamcast development, perhaps throw in the DVD drive from the off instead of planning to release it later....

Also just prior to launch, what if Sega didn't have problems with the chipsets/or one of the components of it being manufactured as is mentioned, that had a direct impact on how quick they could get the machine out, which then subsequently meant they had to revise down their initial sales target for Japan...

More stupidity on Sega's part though, knowing the juggernaut would soon arrive in the form of the PS2, the development guys at Sega circa 1996/97 should have really thought can we REALLY compete with Sony? Do we have the financial muscle anymore?
 
I think most of it has been explained throughout the thread but I'll chime in anyway with my understanding. If I'm missing anything or if any info is slightly off then feel free to chime in and correct me.

To understand the issue you have to go back to the Megadrive days. Sega Japan and Sega America were trying to compete too much internally and what was good for one market didn't necessarily fly in the other market.

Sega Japan had only moderate success with the Megadrive in Japan, it wasn't an out and out failure, but it certainly wasn't lighting up the charts compared to the NES and SNES. At the same time through clever marketing and the right content/market conditions Sega America were a runaway success becoming the market leader for a period ahead of the mighty Nintendo who were unstoppable in Japan.

This led to a lot of clashing egos on both sides with the Japan branch being sour for being compared non favourably to the highly successful American arm and the American arm feeling like they knew what was best and that they should be calling all of the shots.

This led to internal bickering much of which we likely only hear bits of pieces of now. Rather than working together as a team and doing what's best for the overall company by combining strengths the two branches instead tried to one up each other and compete for brownie points with the top brass.

So coming up towards the Saturn this internal strife and wasting of talent resources came up again. The Mega CD was an experiment which Sega can't really be blamed for as FMV/CD was all the rage at the time and even Nintendo were also working on their own disc drive add on which we all know about but had it released would probably have been as unsuccessful as the Mega CD was.

The American branch believed that they found success with the Megadrive so expanding it's life span with the 32X was the right idea rather than putting all resources into the next console. This obviously was a failure and combined with the Mega CD customers had begun to lose a bit of faith in Sega's direction as a company and brand.

The Japanese branch having been pioneers in 3D graphics in gaming from their highly successful arcade business should have been well in the lead in the R&D/Talent department and their next console should have been a smash hit in terms of wow factor and technology.

However a lack of foresight and a bad read on marketing conditions led the Japanese branch to the thinking that they wanted to maintain a tiered environment where arcades possessed the best technology and gave you that "WOW" factor and home consoles were more simplistic. I suppose you could say the thinking was likely akin to the Cinema experience verses the home video experience at the time.

There was likely an element of not wanting to cannibalise Sega's at the time highly successful arcade business and probably also more egos clashing between say the arcade division and the home console division.

So Sega Japan set out to make a machine that continued advancing 2D graphics assuming everyone else would go the same route and leave fancy 3D tech to the arcades.

Later when Sega realised that everyone else was going the 3D home console route they had to scramble to get the Saturn together causing a mish-mash of design philosophies and chipsets which made the Saturn highly difficult to develop for and although a 2D powerhouse from it's initial design philosophy the console's 3D capabilities were somewhat lacking and certainly a late addition in the development cycle.

But Sega had done their research, at least as far as the Japanese market was concerned and had deals in the works with several Japanese third parties who had only recently been freed from Nintendo's draconian monopoly contracts and wanted to work with someone else.

The Saturn released in Japan and was a huge success over there compared to the Megadrive. The Saturn was going toe to toe with the Playstation for the first year. The Japan branch finally felt they were successful by tailoring everything to what they knew of the Japanese market. This however was in stark contrast to the western release of the Saturn.

The Japan branch decided that because the Megadrive was only moderately successful for them that it was better to put past failures behind them and concentrate all their eggs in the next gen basket so all production on Megadrive games was halted. This may have been good for the Japanese market but not for the US market where the Megadrive was still a huge success. This in the US market was a huge blow to Sega as a company as they were killing off the golden goose as it were and stopping that revenue stream and consumer mindshare.

The Sony Playstation was on the horizon and Sony had been wining and dining developers and publishers to bring software to their platform, and they were doing a great job of it too. Backed by the branding and worldwide success/money of Sony which was an unstoppable brand at the time serious competition was on the way.

In what can only be described as one of the dumbest moves in videogame history the Saturn was launched in the US months early to compete with the Sony Playstation in the strangest stealth launch ever. It was a total rush job with no marketing to back it up yet and almost no software as third parties were still working on their launch titles for the console.

This understandably pissed off everyone: publishers, developers, marketing departments, retailers and consumers.

For consumers especially this was the last straw, coming off the back of the Mega CD and 32X failures, the sudden forced death of the Megadrive and now this stealth launch of the Saturn with barely any software or marketing and no mascot Sonic game anywhere in the pipeline.

The Saturn unsurprisingly failed in the west....hard. The Japan branch had finally started to gain success in it's home territory but all for nothing as their decisions had led to the doom of their own brand/console in the rest of the world. Had things been different and better decisions made in final days of the Megadrive and the lead up to the Saturn then we could be living a very different history now but alas Sega had the ball and dropped it so hard it won't likely ever be forgotten.

So coming off the death of the Megadrive and the costly R&D on it's failed add ons. The failure of the Saturn and the sudden decline of the arcades Sega had pretty much lost all of it's revenue streams in just a few shorts years. The company had lost the faith of consumers and publishers alike and was in financial ruin essentially.

But desperate to regain their success and become a competitor again Sega set to work on the Dreamcast, this time they would finally learn from their mistakes and both branches would work together for the common good.

They borrowed money and got to work on a fantastic console. Learning from the terrible launch of the Saturn the Dreamcast had software coming out of it's ears for the launch and first 18 months. It was very front loaded but it needed to be to make an impact.

And to it's credit despite everything against it, the Dreamcast was pretty successful for a time, but it needed to be an absolute runaway success. The console was perfectly aimed at the hardcore and normally were it around longer the mainstream would eventually jump in too, however this was not the case with the Dreamcast.

The Playstation had been an unprecedented success and brought in gamers from much wider age ranges. Games were no longer for little kids, the mainstream were involved now. The hype for the Playstation 2 was bigger than anything before or since. It was simply monumental, and the marketing both backed and played to this fact. The public mindshare was with Sony now and nothing Sega could do would change this. When combined with the high demand and price of DVD players Sony pulled an amazing move and people were using PS2 as a cheap DVD player too further increasing it's success.

Sega had pretty much ran out of money at this stage, if they had a war chest like what Nintendo does it's possible the Dreamcast could have carved out a reasonable success in the market but there just wasn't anymore money coming through the pipeline.

There were talks with Microsoft to buy Sega which almost happened, and Sega knew that afterwards Microsoft were coming to market with or without them. Given the market conditions of high spenders Microsoft and Sony in the market with longterm darling Nintendo and a broke Sega the writing was on the wall.

The Dreamcast itself didn't fail Sega, Sega failed the Dreamcast to put it bluntly. Had "Dreamcast era" Sega been around since the middle of the Megadrive things would have been completely different but they squandered every lead they had by being Sega up to that point essentially and let a competitor take the market they had helped to foster right out from under them. They ran out of money and the public/industry ran out of faith in them.
 
Sega problems came from a far but the Draemcast project was definitely failure.

It seems not many realize that the DC years was the period when Sega incurred the major losses.
Sega tried their hardest to push the system before the competition was out by selling the system at a loss.
They literally bought market share by eating the losses per system and yet sales were average.


Clearing unsold stock at a ridiculous price is not really meaningful IMO.

If that were the case wouldn't Ouya consoles be flying off the store shelves right now? I could get one right now for less than a third of its launch price.
 

Celine

Member
If that were the case wouldn't Ouya consoles be flying off the store shelves right now? I could get one right now for less than a third of its launch price.
Are you comparing Ouya with DC? ah ah.
And here I thought you said it was your favorite system.

DC sold between 2001 and 2002 about 1.2M in US (NPD) but all those units were sold at a conditions "out of the market" because Sega was going "out of the market".
How can these sales be relevant when they happened with fire sales MSRP?
The problem for Sega wasn't a total lack of demand (at least in US) but that sales were slow even if they had pushed the system hard incurring in severe losses.
The record breaking launch period was the bright moment for DC in US but everything else forward was a huge disappointment.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
- No DVD drive was probably the biggest mistake.
- Inferior graphics to the PS2.
- Inferior software lineup to the PS2, eventhough Sega fans wanted us to believe Shenmue was really amazing.
- Not enough price disparity when the PS2 hit, eventhough the visual gap was large.
- Sega is one of the worst-run hardware manufacturers ever, and deserved to fail miserably.

Dreamcast got Dreamcasted. The controller was also a friggin mess, with the cord coming out of the bottom for no good reason, and the little lcd screen thing that served no real purpose. Just one dumb decision after another. How did Sega even come into existence if they were that poorly managed? I'd say the Genesis and Master System were the flukes, and the Dreamcast and Saturn are truer to the incompetent company they were. PEACE.
 
Sega problems came from a far but the Draemcast project was definitely failure.

It seems not many realize that the DC years was the period when Sega incurred the major losses.
Sega tried their hardest to push the system before the competition was out by selling the system at a loss.
They literally bought market share by eating the losses per system and yet sales were average.


Clearing unsold stock at a ridiculous price is not really meaningful IMO.

I originally said "failing to meet their financial expectations" because I remember the DC doing well at first, but not well enough to recuperate the losses they've made. But I guess you have a point.
 

MSI

Banned
I think it failed from not having any form of DRM. Anyone could burn a CD and start playing the games. No mod chips needed.
 

spekkeh

Banned
The Japan branch decided that because the Megadrive was only moderately successful for them that it was better to put past failures behind them and concentrate all their eggs in the next gen basket so all production on Megadrive games was halted. This may have been good for the Japanese market but not for the US market where the Megadrive was still a huge success. This in the US market was a huge blow to Sega as a company as they were killing off the golden goose as it were and stopping that revenue stream and consumer mindshare.

Excellent post. This explains why suddenly MegaDrive withered and Saturn arrived with a dull splat.
 
Are you comparing Ouya with DC? ah ah.
And here I thought you said it was your favorite system.

DC sold between 2001 and 2002 about 1.2M in US (NPD) but all those units were sold at a conditions "out of the market" because Sega was going "out of the market".
How can these sales be relevant when they happened with fire sales MSRP?
The problem for Sega wasn't a total lack of demand (at least in US) but that sales were slow even if they had push the system hard incurring in severe losses.
The record breaking launch period was the bright DC moment in US but everything else forward was a huge disappointment.

I wasn't as much comparing them as I was disagreeing with your assessment. The 1.2M sales in the US at the discounted price showed that there was interest in the console. The Gamecube was also discounted heavily in its later years yet it still sold poorly, the Neogeo Pocket and its variants were also discounted, yet they still sold poorly, even to this day you can get a brand new NGP for a discounted price, I know because I bought one last year, you can't say the same about the Dreamcast.
 

ksdixon

Member
Saturn was the generation equal with PS1, N64. I don't think it's fair to have DC being more powerful than those two systems as a check in the pro column. Besides, Saturn was arguably more powerful than PS1, with the ability to code to the metal, but developers weren't willing to go through 3 Volumes of basic instructions to get the best out of the Saturn when the PS1 was so much easier to code for.
 
- Inferior graphics to the PS2.

I'd argue that most Dreamcast games looked a lot better than early Playstation 2 titles. I don't think that was as relevant of a factor as the good PR that pretended otherwise, by saying the console was ridiculously more powerful, and of course the great number of titles Sony managed to grab like you mentioned.

I never felt let down by the Dreamcast's graphic capabilities, but when I acquired a PS2 and started playing some of my friend's early games I distinctly remember being disappointed with their fidelity. I'm not saying the PS2 wasn't superior, but it took a few years for it to reach a level in which you could argue games looked a lot better than the Dreamcast ones.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
Excellent post. This explains why suddenly MegaDrive withered and Saturn arrived with a dull splat.

MegaDrive (Sega Master System in the US) was never popular stateside. I'd love some numbers to show it was popular, because no one I knew owned a SMS, and you never saw ads for it on tv. You'd see a random SMS in a price closet at an arcade, or a random one at Sears or something, but out of hundreds of boys, not a single one I knew owned a SMS.

MegaDrive was very successful in Europe, but AFAIK, the thing bombed in the US and Japan. NES pretty much owned those two territories. PEACE.
 

schaft0620

Member
PS2 was a $300 system that could play DVDs when DVD players cost $300, DC could not.

Everyone had a boner for Madden back then so that was a big deal too, no EA support on the DC.

When I was a kid lets say there are 20 of us in a classroom 3 of us where in the back of class reading ODCM going "HOLY SHIT POWER STONE 2!" "HOLY SHIT SHENMUE!!" "HOLY SHIT GUNDAM SIDE STORY!!" and everyone else was like, "you guys are freakin neards, my parents aren't going to buy me that shit nor do I care about these "Power Stones you speak of"
 
They ran out of money.

To anyone making Sega jokes.....

Damn-You-Sir-Classy-J.D.-On-Scrubs.gif


.....or ma'am ;P

MegaDrive (Sega Master System in the US) was never popular stateside. I'd love some numbers to show it was popular, because no one I knew owned a SMS, and you never saw ads for it on tv. You'd see a random SMS in a price closet at an arcade, or a random one at Sears or something, but out of hundreds of boys, not a single one I knew owned a SMS.

MegaDrive was very successful in Europe, but AFAIK, the thing bombed in the US and Japan. NES pretty much owned those two territories. PEACE.
That poster's talking about the Genesis tho. I thought MegaDrive was the European/Japanese name for Genesis.

So if you're talking about the Genesis,...not it didn't bomb stateside at all. In fact it led the market here until late '94.

I think most of it has been explained throughout the thread but I'll chime in anyway with my understanding. If I'm missing anything or if any info is slightly off then feel free to chime in and correct me.

To understand the issue you have to go back to the Megadrive days. Sega Japan and Sega America were trying to compete too much internally and what was good for one market didn't necessarily fly in the other market.

Sega Japan had only moderate success with the Megadrive in Japan, it wasn't an out and out failure, but it certainly wasn't lighting up the charts compared to the NES and SNES. At the same time through clever marketing and the right content/market conditions Sega America were a runaway success becoming the market leader for a period ahead of the mighty Nintendo who were unstoppable in Japan.

This led to a lot of clashing egos on both sides with the Japan branch being sour for being compared non favourably to the highly successful American arm and the American arm feeling like they knew what was best and that they should be calling all of the shots.

This led to internal bickering much of which we likely only hear bits of pieces of now. Rather than working together as a team and doing what's best for the overall company by combining strengths the two branches instead tried to one up each other and compete for brownie points with the top brass.

So coming up towards the Saturn this internal strife and wasting of talent resources came up again. The Mega CD was an experiment which Sega can't really be blamed for as FMV/CD was all the rage at the time and even Nintendo were also working on their own disc drive add on which we all know about but had it released would probably have been as unsuccessful as the Mega CD was.

The American branch believed that they found success with the Megadrive so expanding it's life span with the 32X was the right idea rather than putting all resources into the next console. This obviously was a failure and combined with the Mega CD customers had begun to lose a bit of faith in Sega's direction as a company and brand.

The Japanese branch having been pioneers in 3D graphics in gaming from their highly successful arcade business should have been well in the lead in the R&D/Talent department and their next console should have been a smash hit in terms of wow factor and technology.

However a lack of foresight and a bad read on marketing conditions led the Japanese branch to the thinking that they wanted to maintain a tiered environment where arcades possessed the best technology and gave you that "WOW" factor and home consoles were more simplistic. I suppose you could say the thinking was likely akin to the Cinema experience verses the home video experience at the time.

There was likely an element of not wanting to cannibalise Sega's at the time highly successful arcade business and probably also more egos clashing between say the arcade division and the home console division.

So Sega Japan set out to make a machine that continued advancing 2D graphics assuming everyone else would go the same route and leave fancy 3D tech to the arcades.

Later when Sega realised that everyone else was going the 3D home console route they had to scramble to get the Saturn together causing a mish-mash of design philosophies and chipsets which made the Saturn highly difficult to develop for and although a 2D powerhouse from it's initial design philosophy the console's 3D capabilities were somewhat lacking and certainly a late addition in the development cycle.

But Sega had done their research, at least as far as the Japanese market was concerned and had deals in the works with several Japanese third parties who had only recently been freed from Nintendo's draconian monopoly contracts and wanted to work with someone else.

The Saturn released in Japan and was a huge success over there compared to the Megadrive. The Saturn was going toe to toe with the Playstation for the first year. The Japan branch finally felt they were successful by tailoring everything to what they knew of the Japanese market. This however was in stark contrast to the western release of the Saturn.

The Japan branch decided that because the Megadrive was only moderately successful for them that it was better to put past failures behind them and concentrate all their eggs in the next gen basket so all production on Megadrive games was halted. This may have been good for the Japanese market but not for the US market where the Megadrive was still a huge success. This in the US market was a huge blow to Sega as a company as they were killing off the golden goose as it were and stopping that revenue stream and consumer mindshare.

The Sony Playstation was on the horizon and Sony had been wining and dining developers and publishers to bring software to their platform, and they were doing a great job of it too. Backed by the branding and worldwide success/money of Sony which was an unstoppable brand at the time serious competition was on the way.

In what can only be described as one of the dumbest moves in videogame history the Saturn was launched in the US months early to compete with the Sony Playstation in the strangest stealth launch ever. It was a total rush job with no marketing to back it up yet and almost no software as third parties were still working on their launch titles for the console.

This understandably pissed off everyone: publishers, developers, marketing departments, retailers and consumers.

For consumers especially this was the last straw, coming off the back of the Mega CD and 32X failures, the sudden forced death of the Megadrive and now this stealth launch of the Saturn with barely any software or marketing and no mascot Sonic game anywhere in the pipeline.

The Saturn unsurprisingly failed in the west....hard. The Japan branch had finally started to gain success in it's home territory but all for nothing as their decisions had led to the doom of their own brand/console in the rest of the world. Had things been different and better decisions made in final days of the Megadrive and the lead up to the Saturn then we could be living a very different history now but alas Sega had the ball and dropped it so hard it won't likely ever be forgotten.

So coming off the death of the Megadrive and the costly R&D on it's failed add ons. The failure of the Saturn and the sudden decline of the arcades Sega had pretty much lost all of it's revenue streams in just a few shorts years. The company had lost the faith of consumers and publishers alike and was in financial ruin essentially.

But desperate to regain their success and become a competitor again Sega set to work on the Dreamcast, this time they would finally learn from their mistakes and both branches would work together for the common good.

They borrowed money and got to work on a fantastic console. Learning from the terrible launch of the Saturn the Dreamcast had software coming out of it's ears for the launch and first 18 months. It was very front loaded but it needed to be to make an impact.

And to it's credit despite everything against it, the Dreamcast was pretty successful for a time, but it needed to be an absolute runaway success. The console was perfectly aimed at the hardcore and normally were it around longer the mainstream would eventually jump in too, however this was not the case with the Dreamcast.

The Playstation had been an unprecedented success and brought in gamers from much wider age ranges. Games were no longer for little kids, the mainstream were involved now. The hype for the Playstation 2 was bigger than anything before or since. It was simply monumental, and the marketing both backed and played to this fact. The public mindshare was with Sony now and nothing Sega could do would change this. When combined with the high demand and price of DVD players Sony pulled an amazing move and people were using PS2 as a cheap DVD player too further increasing it's success.

Sega had pretty much ran out of money at this stage, if they had a war chest like what Nintendo does it's possible the Dreamcast could have carved out a reasonable success in the market but there just wasn't anymore money coming through the pipeline.

There were talks with Microsoft to buy Sega which almost happened, and Sega knew that afterwards Microsoft were coming to market with or without them. Given the market conditions of high spenders Microsoft and Sony in the market with longterm darling Nintendo and a broke Sega the writing was on the wall.

The Dreamcast itself didn't fail Sega, Sega failed the Dreamcast to put it bluntly. Had "Dreamcast era" Sega been around since the middle of the Megadrive things would have been completely different but they squandered every lead they had by being Sega up to that point essentially and let a competitor take the market they had helped to foster right out from under them. They ran out of money and the public/industry ran out of faith in them.
This can't be said enough. We never hear about how their arcade side played into them folding out of the console market, it would answer SO many questions. I came across an article on Gamespy's archives a long time ago w/ an arcade enthusiast who went into some of Sega's arcade history and mentioned the obscene costs for niche games like F55 Challenge just eating up tons of money. That those sort of games were basically pet projects, passion projects, but not enough about money.

It makes me sad thinking on it b/c Sega, more than Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft, was always about passion projects. I loved that, I was infatuated with them. But they didn't balance that out with enough "money-makers" and this is what we end up with. So when I hear Sony and Microsoft might scale back on 1st-party content to focus more on sure-fire AAA hits, I can understand why. Yet I despise it having to be that way.

Also: excellent post, sums it up very well.
 

Celine

Member
I wasn't as much comparing them as I was disagreeing with your assessment. The 1.2M sales in the US at the discounted price showed that there was interest in the console. The Gamecube was also discounted heavily in its later years yet it still sold poorly, the Neogeo Pocket and its variants were also discounted, yet they still sold poorly, even to this day you can get a brand new NGP for a discounted price, I know because I bought one last year, you can't say the same about the Dreamcast.

NPD:

GC 2003-2004: 5.55M (most of time MSRP = $99)
DC 2001-2002: 1.25M (most of time MSRP = $49)

Of course the main difference between the two is the one was a console still active on the market while the other was discontinued (console wasn't the only thing to get a heavy price cut, the whole ecosystem got discounts).

I agree with you that GC sales were still disappointing after the price cut.
 

spekkeh

Banned
MegaDrive (Sega Master System in the US) was never popular stateside. I'd love some numbers to show it was popular, because no one I knew owned a SMS, and you never saw ads for it on tv. You'd see a random SMS in a price closet at an arcade, or a random one at Sears or something, but out of hundreds of boys, not a single one I knew owned a SMS.

MegaDrive was very successful in Europe, but AFAIK, the thing bombed in the US and Japan. NES pretty much owned those two territories. PEACE.

The US name for MegaDrive was Genesis ;). Master System was called the same across territories. Both SMS and to a lesser extent MD also seemed way less popular in the Netherlands, but apparently it sold somewhere.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
PS2 was a $300 system that could play DVDs when DVD players cost $300, DC could not.

Everyone had a boner for Madden back then so that was a big deal too, no EA support on the DC.

When I was a kid lets say there are 20 of us in a classroom 3 of us where in the back of class reading ODCM going "HOLY SHIT POWER STONE 2!" "HOLY SHIT SHENMUE!!" "HOLY SHIT GUNDAM SIDE STORY!!" and everyone else was like, "you guys are freakin neards, my parents aren't going to buy me that shit nor do I care about these "Power Stones you speak of"

Damn shame, because Powerstone was an awesome game. I feel like Capcom started putting itself in stormy waters when they started making dumb decisions like only releasing PS on the DC. Sega and Capcom's management both made some really dumb platform decisions that seemed to be made more on pride than business sense. PEACE.
 

Pimpwerx

Member
The US name for MegaDrive was Genesis ;). Master System was called the same across territories. Both SMS and to a lesser extent MD also seemed way less popular in the Netherlands, but apparently it sold somewhere.

Derp. Thanks.

My excuse? I'm old. Too old to remember properly. LOL. PEACE.
 
Dreamcast was a great system .... at first. It probably had the best launch - 6 month period ever for a system. But then the games pretty much stopped coming ( it did get PSO in 2001 though ) and the quality severely dropped and then of course the PS2 launched and once the library began building up it was pretty much over at that point. Dreamcast had no real strong sales in any other territory except the US while the PS2 launched and it sold well everywhere.

In 2001 the PS2 started getting games like Gran Turismo, FFX ( JPN ), Twisted Metal: Black, Ominusha, etc. And well, then the big one hit in 2001 called Grand Theft Auto 3.

The PSX had Final Fantasy VII which made it explode. The PS2 had Grand Theft Auto which made it explode. Was pretty much all she wrote from there.
 
I don't remember there being much hype around GTA3 before it was released. Ironically Shenmue was being hyped up more by the gaming media as the next big revolution in gaming, while GTA3 kind of sailed mostly under the radar during its development cycle. The real hype for GTA3 didn't really happen until after the game was released in 2001, which happened after the Dreamcast was discontinued. Though, I do remember there being rumors that GTA 3 was being considered for a Dreamcast port early in development (GTA 2 was released on the DC), but they never went anywhere beyond that.

It also reminds me that a port of Max Payne was slated for the Dreamcast as well. But yet again, that idea was dropped part way through development.

Yeah, GTA3 had little hype. No one thought much of it. Hell, I only thought of the game as something to kill time between Devil May Cry and MGS2 before I got it. Never did I think I'd love it far more than those two games. Of course once people got it and started playing it, the word got out.
 
MegaDrive (Sega Master System in the US) was never popular stateside. I'd love some numbers to show it was popular, because no one I knew owned a SMS, and you never saw ads for it on tv. You'd see a random SMS in a price closet at an arcade, or a random one at Sears or something, but out of hundreds of boys, not a single one I knew owned a SMS.

MegaDrive was very successful in Europe, but AFAIK, the thing bombed in the US and Japan. NES pretty much owned those two territories. PEACE.

I think you are confusing things a little...

MegaDrive was the Japanese and European name for the Genesis.

Sega Master System was the 8-bit competitor to the NES.
 
I'd argue that most Dreamcast games looked a lot better than early Playstation 2 titles. I don't think that was as relevant of a factor as the good PR that pretended otherwise, by saying the console was ridiculously more powerful, and of course the great number of titles Sony managed to grab like you mentioned.

I never felt let down by the Dreamcast's graphic capabilities, but when I acquired a PS2 and started playing some of my friend's early games I distinctly remember being disappointed with their fidelity. I'm not saying the PS2 wasn't superior, but it took a few years for it to reach a level in which you could argue games looked a lot better than the Dreamcast ones.
Yep, people joked about Tekken jag tournament and Ridged racer. The PS2 was hard to program and developers didn't get much support from Sony. I remember reading that the PS2 had some early hardware AA that stole so much bandwidth, it was pointless to use unless you wanted to severly cut your resolution like summoner did.
 

havaska

Member
I remember reading at the time that it was discontinued that Sega were licensing the Dreamcast tech to cable box manufacturers to try to get some revenue. I don't know if that happened but maybe a load of old TiVo boxes out there are Dreamcasts in disguise!
 

Dehnus

Member
The Xbox was essentially designed as a followup to the Dreamcast. If you read "Opening the Xbox" by Dean Takahasi he describes the Xbox hardware teams locking themselves in a room with a Dreamcast for weeks taking inspiration from it and it's software.

The Xbox released as a powerful console with a focus on online play and controller design right out of Sega's handbook. Sega also added to the sentiment by releasing a lot of awesome games on the Xbox like Jet Set Radio, Sega GT, Outrun 2, Crazy Taxi 3, Phantasy Star Online, Otagi 1/2, Super Monkey Ball, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Shenmue 2, Gun Valykrie, etc. etc.

It was no mystery nor secret that the Xbox was Sega DNA through and through. Stolen DNA but Sega DNA.
I'm reading alot of shit here but the stealing takes the cake. Bill gates personally talked with both Hideki Sato and Isao Okawa, to first get in on the Dreamcast deal. He was told by the venerable shareholder that they wanted to get out of the hardware business.

They did not steal anything.😉
 

Fawoosh

Banned
It was ahead of its time and couldn't really fulfill some of its own promises. The main one that comes to mind is the fact that it was given a modem and provide online multiplayer, something you didn't see again until very late PS2 and Gamecube. But dial-up was still the standard so connections were unreliable. I actually still have my Dreamcast keyboard made specifically for the browser and multiplayer.
 

Celine

Member
I remember reading at the time that it was discontinued that Sega were licensing the Dreamcast tech to cable box manufacturers to try to get some revenue. I don't know if that happened but maybe a load of old TiVo boxes out there are Dreamcasts in disguise!
Isao Okawa secret plan for DC was that the system would have served as a base for the transition of Sega from an hardware company to a service provider company that's why for them the inclusion of the modem was so important.
Okawa thought Sega could have had a future if other companies manufactured their own hardware while Sega provided the software ecosystem (more or less similar to Steam).
Unfortunately they were a few years too early.
 
PSX momentum was strong and people would rather wait for the PS2 that was coming out a year later because nobody trusted Sega anymore.

After the sega cd, 32x, saturn mess, it was hard to believe in Sega at the time when the PSX was the must have machine and the PS2 coming soon.

Dreamcast was awesome but Sega's blunders in the 90's really hurt their reputation.
 

rjc571

Banned
I'd argue that most Dreamcast games looked a lot better than early Playstation 2 titles. I don't think that was as relevant of a factor as the good PR that pretended otherwise, by saying the console was ridiculously more powerful, and of course the great number of titles Sony managed to grab like you mentioned.

I never felt let down by the Dreamcast's graphic capabilities, but when I acquired a PS2 and started playing some of my friend's early games I distinctly remember being disappointed with their fidelity. I'm not saying the PS2 wasn't superior, but it took a few years for it to reach a level in which you could argue games looked a lot better than the Dreamcast ones.

Your memory is poor. Early PS2 tech demos from 1999 such as this pre-alpha version of Gran Turismo 3 were so far beyond what the Dreamcast was doing at the time that Sega fans were convinced that they had to be CG. Of course, the final version of GT3 was even better looking than this supposed "CG" footage.
 
It failed because of the Genesis add ons and the weakness of the Saturn drove that majority of US and European Genesis/MegaDrive casual base towards the Playstation brand. Had Sega skipped the silly add ons and the Saturn was a better follow up to the Genesis., the Dreamcast would have the base to survive and succeed.
 
Yeah I wondered that myself, how is it possible that the VMU had a better d-pad even if smaller than the already small DC d-pad.

No clue there. I guess it was either due to the aesthetic (the Dreamcast had a minimalist/futuristic look going for it) or because they were trying to do something similar to the Super Nintendo's D-Pad without being sued by them, hence the small concavity in the center and the "tallness".
 
Because it was the Wii U of it's generation but Sega didn't have the stacks Nintendo does.

Nintendo wishes it was pulling in numbers comparable to what Sega was pulling off with the Dreamcast. It will surpass the Dreamcast by virtue of Nintendo having the money to prop it up for longer than Sega could but at a much slower rate. Actually the Wii U still hasn't matched the Dreamcasts sales when Sega announced the end of the platform's production and going third party.
 
Hype.

Waiting for the PS2 was something the cool kids would do. It was supposed to be so powerful, games would look like Toy Story, so powerful Saddam himself was considering it to guide his rockets! At least that was what you heard on the schoolyard. Why buy this weak console when console jesus was about to arive next year.

The irony was games on a vga dreamcast looked better than anything on a ps2 for a loong time.

Sometimes history repeats itself.
 
Your memory is poor. Early PS2 tech demos from 1999 such as this pre-alpha version of Gran Turismo 3 were so far beyond what the Dreamcast was doing at the time that Sega fans were convinced that they had to be CG. Of course, the final version of GT3 was even better looking than this supposed "CG" footage.

I'm talking about games that were released during the time the Dreamcast was still actively in the market, not tech demos. GT3 only came out in 2001, half a year after Sega announced it was leaving the market.
 

Celine

Member
The failure of the Saturn and the sudden decline of the arcades Sega had pretty much lost all of it's revenue streams in just a few shorts years.
Arcade business declined from FY 1998 (that year was the peak) but the business was still healthy (it was still profitable)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=65998361&postcount=182

And to it's credit despite everything against it, the Dreamcast was pretty successful for a time, but it needed to be an absolute runaway success.
No, DC wasn't successful for the time.
The only bright moment was the launch in US but even there sales fell off the next year and that's despite Sega taking a blood bath.

The Dreamcast itself didn't fail Sega, Sega failed the Dreamcast to put it bluntly. Had "Dreamcast era" Sega been around since the middle of the Megadrive things would have been completely different but they squandered every lead they had by being Sega up to that point essentially and let a competitor take the market they had helped to foster right out from under them. They ran out of money and the public/industry ran out of faith in them.
That's a myth. Dreamcast was a financial disaster.
Look at the severe losses Sega incurred through those years.

Of course Sega was responsible for the DC debacle (being the manufacturer) but the console itself was no saint as it is often depicted.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
....Even Soul Calibur wasn't enough to save the DC, also what hasn't been mentioned is the reason why Electronic Arts didn't sign up to the DC was because when in negotiations with Bernie Stolar, they basically wanted the sports market of the Dreamcast for themselves...forget anyone else wanting to get in on the act, and Stolar didn't agree with that. Hence the over-reliance on Sega Sports..
 
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