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[Nightbird]

To the people thinking the guy in OP dodged a loaded question... let me ask you, are there any female characters you'd fancy being in a relationship with? I don't mean a one night stand, I mean someone you could spend a sizable portion of your time with and think you'd enjoy their company... I can't think of too many personally.

In that case i've gotta go with Chie

She's the kind of Girl i could easily see myself spending Time with if she was real. energetic, fun, also a bit tomboyish, but thats okay.


But in the End your point still stands, there are not much non-sexualized Characters in Videogames



Disclaimer: This is my Opinion, and is not meant to start a discussion about Persona

 

[SmartBase]

Perfect.

 

[Ivan Amiibo]

In that case i've gotta go with Chie



She's the kind of Girl i could easily see myself spending Time with if she was real. energetic, fun, also a bit tomboyish, but thats okay.


But in the End your point still stands, there are not much non-sexualized Characters in Videogames

we got a persona character, now it's an official waifu thread

 

[oni-link]

I only skimmed the article but I was under the impression that the author was implying sexy and well-developed were somehow mutually exclusive character traits, that if a character was designed to be sexy then they start off their "life" with their looks defining them.

She is saying designing women to be attractive and not just sexy will result in better characters, and that hot or sexy characters are great, but not if that is all they offer

She isn't saying you should want to date characters in games, or films or books for that matter, but that well written characters that you feel like you would want to date if they were real, will result in a more enjoyable experience (I'm assuming she means games that are narrative driven)

In the same way that a film would a better film if it had a well written female lead played by Scarlett Johansson, than if it had a vapid and boring character played by Scarlett Johansson

 

[Simbabbad]

To the people thinking the guy in OP dodged a loaded question... let me ask you, are there any female characters you'd fancy being in a relationship with? I don't mean a one night stand, I mean someone you could spend a sizable portion of your time with and think you'd enjoy their company... I can't think of too many personally.

I'm gay and there's no male character I'd fancy being in a relationship with, at best, they're cover boys. It's a silly question. It'd already be sort of silly if we were talking about films, but video games?! I don't get why straight guys torture themselves so much on these sort of issues. Enjoy your eye candy and stop feeling guilty for bloody everything.

Likewise, she answered Link (specifically Hyrule Warriors) and Leon Kennedy (specifically RE4 Leon "with that jacket"). Does Link make her want to be in a "serious relationship" with him because in Hyrule Warriors specifically he has such a great personality (lol)? Really? Or is it because there's a skin where he's nearly in briefs? Does Leon Kennedy's jacket in RE4 have any meaningful weight to his "company" - because if he doesn't have the jacket, she's not as interested.

Also, I find really funny she's mentioning Hyrule Warriors, because the "good guys" cast is almost entirely female: all the males are either mute (Link), mute kids (young Link), evil bad guys, or caricatures (Darunia, fucking Tingle), and any woman there has more personality than any other male, minus Ghirahim who's androgynous and flamboyant (nearly femme, actually), and maybe Zant (that's reaching) who's a maniac fool. That game's a love letter to women characters in various shapes and styles, most of them not being "classically" sexy (Midna, Impa, etc).

Finally, as far as interesting characters in "feel" and complexity go, with whom you can genuinely feel human emotions, I'd more easily name female characters than males: Heather from Silent Hill 3, Lexine from Dead Space Extraction, Heather from Shattered Memories (not the same character than in SH3), Emily Wyatt from Deadly Premonition, some of the Fatal Frame leads (all females), Elle Holloway from Silent Hill Homecoming (I know, not the best game, but I thought she was well written and acted), Juliet Starling from Lollipop Chainsaw (hey, first to be genuine eye candy, but it's her personality and the relationship with her "nearly a sex toy" beheaded boyfriend that really makes her interesting and fun)... and that's only from the top of my head, and I have zero romantic interest in women.

Now, if you ask me about guys... I draw a blank. Physically, I'd have names, but positive characters (not tortured, cliché, loser or sociopath) with a "real" personality? I don't know.

Sounds to me like her fella wisely ducked a loaded question. That dress looks great on you and I don't fancy anyone unless they have an amazing personality like you dear. No I wasn't looking at her breasts, merely admiring that lovely brooch she had.

This.

 

[Nightbird]

we got a persona character, now it's an official waifu thread

read the title of my post please.

Edit: I edited it into my post too

 

[AyaisMUsikWhore]

While I agree on the idea that women characters should be more three-dimensional in their attractiveness (no pun intended), the idea that the author listed a mysterious group of female characters we're not privy to that her 3rd-party boyfriend "didn't have a crush on" is proof of her point is silly.

On the top of my head, if I suggested (author repeats omitted):
Samus
Lara Croft
Joanna Dark
Yuna
Jill Valentine
Sherry Birkin
Ada Wong
Princess Zelda
Elena Fisher
Jade
Liara
Anya Stroud
Sonya
Sarah Kerrigan
Mass Effect's Shepherd
Alex Roivas
Zoey from Left 4 Dead
Bastila
Aya Brea
Konoko
Meryl
Shantae
Aveline
April Ryan, etc.

and her boyfriend admitted to having a crush on some of those characters, would the piece be dead in development?

😍😍😍😍 YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

 

[Yoritomo]

I totally misread where this thread was going to go.

 

[ryseing]

I think I had a crush on Elika from PoP.

My lil bro had a crush on Ellie when he was playing The Last of Us

Elika is a great answer.

And did you break the news to your brother?

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Some of the advertising renders might be okay like the mirror's edge woman, but the actual in-game models aren't something I'd call sexy in any videogame.

But yeah, I tthink his girlfriend may not have come to terms with the fact that men are visual and can **** someone they loathe; while women are more thinky-feely when it comes to arousal.

Men may be visual, but to say that translates into men being able to fuck anyone they want completely detached from emotion is a leap. That's a dangerous stereotype and, in my lifelong experience as a man, just completely untrue.

Both men and women have empty sex. But men are not unfeeling power drills.

And this is a stereotype that social activists are trying to break down aggressively, because it's dangerous to teach boys that their sex is biologically or culturally nonemotional compared to that of women.

Men and boys need to develop better expectations of female characters so they can have better expectations of actual women. That's why Mad Max: Fury Road is such a big deal, because it's an action movie from a 70 year old director built on that exact concept.

 

[PirateKing]

Next user who comments is my GAF wifu.

Spoiler

This is where the thread is going right? :\

 

[Meffer]

Most female characters I like are mostly from Nintendo. Peach, Bow, Rosalina, Toon Zelda, Vivian, etc. because they're great characters.
And Midna, can't forget about Midna.

 

[MrChocolate]

It's like people don't even play videogames.

Bonnie is quite an example as a previous gaffer said. Abigail from the same game is another one.

Lucca (from CT) and Kid (from CC), Both smart and sexy, well, Lucca is a different kind of sexy. Schala while not a MC, she is quite hot and misterious and hnnnnngg.

Selan from Lufia 2. Smart, strong and hot.

Elena from Uncharted.

Those are a few examples from different eras.

 

[Nightbird]

nevermind haha

 

[kingwingin]

Need more older women in games like katherine Marlowe from uncharted 3.

 

[Shuggananas]

Will anybody think of the horny teens ?

 

[IvorB]

spiritually-minded assassin Thane from Mass Effect

Ew... the lizard guy? That's nasty.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Nico Collard from Broken Sword.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Sounds to me like her fella wisely ducked a loaded question. That dress looks great on you and I don't fancy anyone unless they have an amazing personality like you dear. No I wasn't looking at her breasts, merely admiring that lovely brooch she had.

I feel terrible that that's how I read it as well

 

[Klossen]

She is saying designing women to be attractive and not just sexy will result in better characters, and that hot or sexy characters are great, but not if that is all they offer

She isn't saying you should want to date characters in games, or films or books for that matter, but that well written characters that you feel like you would want to date if they were real, will result in a more enjoyable experience (I'm assuming she means games that are narrative driven)

In the same way that a film would a better film if it had a well written female lead played by Scarlett Johansson, than if it had a vapid and boring character played by Scarlett Johansson

"well written". I love that term. A character written to be sexy isn't inherently badly written. A character written to be complex and "realistic" can serve to be detrimental in the wrong place and time, thus badly written. She uses Ivy as an example of a poorly written character, even though there's no need for Ivy to be more than she is. She uses Alyx as an example of a well-written character, even though there are plenty of characters who are both sexy, and are better characters than Alyx, some already mentioned in this thread.

Gaming is not a narrative medium. There's no need to push a narrative standard on games as it's secondary to the interactive anyways. Nobody will argue with you that well-written characters are preferred. But the notion that well-written is inherently something realistic and complex is false.

 

[Dylan]

Those of us attracted to men have a fairly varied selection of looks and personalities to choose from in video games, because male characters generally have more going on than skimpy armour and gravity-defying body parts.

Disagree.

I think that the types of games that feature shallow representations of women also feature shallow representations of men. Many games which take the time to design more human-like characters do so for both sexes equally.

 

[Yeul]

Ew... the lizard guy? That's nasty.

I went for Garrus when I played through ME but devoid of being a "lizard guy", Thane was interesting. Why ew? Lol

 

[ab.aeterno]

Being sexy and having a great character are not mutually exclusive and I'm tired of that assumption. Those male characters she named? All who most would say are attractive male characters. Just because they were attractive didn't hurt their character.

No shit. The point being made is that when a creator defines a female character solely by their sexy character design, the result is empty window dressing that is neither interesting nor long-lasting in the hearts and consciousness of gamers.

A character can be attractive and sexy and interesting and substantive. The point the author is making is that most designers skip the last two points, which make for a worse character in the long run.

On that note, I also see plenty of excellent female characters ignored in gaming because they look "sexy" which is automatically tied to shallow for many. Ashe in FFXII is an excellent character with a clear-cut character arc that I never see mentioned. Is it because she's too sexy to be considered a good female character?

Yes, I'm sure the fact that no one remembers or talks about Ashe is because people find her too sexy, and not because people don't like or care enough about her to ever talk about her.

 

[guymockingdale]

dont think anything terrible about digging a fictional character, to a point. many designed for just that reason.

but I will say one character for some reason really did strike my fancy. Tripp, from Enslaved. think it was the expressiveness.

 

[QaaQer]

Men may be visual, but to say that translates into men being able to fuck anyone they want completely detached from emotion is a leap. That's a dangerous stereotype and, in my lifelong experience as a man, just completely untrue.

Both men and women have empty sex. But men are not unfeeling power drills.

And this is a stereotype that social activists are trying to break down aggressively, because it's dangerous to teach boys that their sex is biologically or culturally nonemotional compared to that of women.

Men and boys need to develop better expectations of female characters so they can have better expectations of actual women. That's why Mad Max: Fury Road is such a big deal, because it's an action movie from a 70 year old director built on that exact concept.

Fury road is great, but it is still weird that in a movie where fertility is the main theme, the prized women are stick thin, narrow hipped supermodels who probably have irregular menstrual cycles.

As to your point, what I'm saying is that (and I'm stereotyping and generalizing here) when you ask a man what is sexy you will get a description of looks 99/100. For women, the answers will mostly not be visual.

Now, who a man wants to spend time with and raise a family with and grow old with, well looks are faaaaar less important there.

 

[Simbabbad]

Gaming is not a narrative medium. There's no need to push a narrative standard on games as it's secondary to the interactive anyways.

This.

 

[Meffer]

Oh and Chie is da bomb!

 

[CSJ]

As a female, I can see the point she's trying to make, but her boyfriend should have answered honestly. If someone gets mad for answering what female characters in a video game they like I see it a bit differently than the supposed loaded question of what female actress do you like??? Even then it's silly to be considered a loaded question either way. Like who cares?

When you discover some people aren't going to react like you would, you'd understand how some questions absolutely need to be deflected.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Not a girl and he doesn't really have a personality but Ash from KoF made me do this the first time I saw him:

That's the only game character I can think of.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

For all of Quiet's awful design I appreciate that they went with Eastern European facial features.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Gaming is not a narrative medium. There's no need to push a narrative standard on games as it's secondary to the interactive anyways. Nobody will argue with you that well-written characters are preferred. But the notion that well-written is inherently something realistic and complex is false.

This is a different argument that you're having, but you are wrong. Gaming is a narrative medium. It is a medium used to tell stories and express ideas through those stories. Last of Us, BioShock, Metal Gear, Thomas Was Alone, the list goes on.

If you deny the use of gaming as a narrative medium you are ignoring information that is right in front of you. You are also holding back an art form by claiming its invalidity despite proof and passion otherwise.

It's just not correct. Games being interactive first has nothing to do with its validity as a narrative medium. Is the medium telling stories? Yes. There you go. Narrative medium. There is nothing you can say to refute this because it is a basic fact of the medium. Games being a piece of entertainment as a primary purpose of development is also true for every other medium.

Just because not every game has a narrative, or just because a lot of them are bad, doesn't make gaming any less of a narrative medium.

Virtually every rule and building block of film and greater literature also can and does apply to narrative games.

 

[akidnamededdy]

She is saying designing women to be attractive and not just sexy will result in better characters, and that hot or sexy characters are great, but not if that is all they offer

She isn't saying you should want to date characters in games, or films or books for that matter, but that well written characters that you feel like you would want to date if they were real, will result in a more enjoyable experience (I'm assuming she means games that are narrative driven)

In the same way that a film would a better film if it had a well written female lead played by Scarlett Johansson, than if it had a vapid and boring character played by Scarlett Johansson

I mean...I doubt anyone would disagree with the notion that video games could use better writing in general (citing the examples throughout the thread here where people say there aren't many male characters they'd want to spend time with either).

I mean yes, with female characters it's more problematic because you've got all the sexualization and objectification issues on top of everything. But the medium in general still has a long way to go if something as formulaic as The Last of Us is held up as an example of greatness.

...

I think Elika and Farah of the Prince of Persia franchise are two characters I would hang out with. And Maya from Ace Attorney seems fun.

This thread is weird.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

I would have answered Maiden in Black.

 

[Sagely]

Fury road is great, but it is still weird that in a movie where fertility is the main theme, the prized women are stick thin, narrow hipped supermodels who probably have irregular menstrual cycles.

The lack of body shape diversity in what's shown as attractive is a huge sticking point for me. This is especially true of games, to the point where a female character with a slightly different body shape to the norm is immediately noticeable. Even though there's a decent number of female characters with more interesting costumes and personalities, they still tend to have the same body shape in general.

 

[Jathaine]

I think everyone in this thread needs to stop for a moment and just go play Senran Kagura. Shinovi Versus, especially.

There's 20+ girls and I "fancy" most of them. Not because they are sexy or whatever but because they are cool and fun characters and certainly not lacking in personality.

 

[Simbabbad]

Even then it's silly to be considered a loaded question either way. Like who cares?

Maybe he knew, given his girlfriend's job, his answer would get published and discussed on tons of forums and other social media, like it's being discussed right now. That'd have anybody "caring".

 

[FriedConsole]

It sounds like the dude lied and did the self preservation exercise all married men do when asked if they think any other women are attractive. I think most women know men are lying except this woman who wrote the article.

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

To the people thinking the guy in OP dodged a loaded question... let me ask you, are there any female characters you'd fancy being in a relationship with? I don't mean a one night stand, I mean someone you could spend a sizable portion of your time with and think you'd enjoy their company... I can't think of too many personally.

I think the author's premise may be built on somewhat faulty assumptions. It sounds like if they see that a female character that is traditionally sexy they assume there's nothing more to her and stop looking. We can certainly have both, like my Shallie here

 

[Dragon1893]

I can find a lot of female characters that have just as much, or more, personality than the male characters she has a crush on and also have a major influence on their game's story.
The article makes it sound like her examples set a bar that very few female characters in the entire gaming universe can reach, which really isn't accurate.
I agree with the premise of the article, but her boyfriend drawing a blank is hardly indicative of anything.
Writing in videogames still has a long way to go, regardless of character gender or the way they are portrayed visually.
The fact that these types of articles like to ignore the good characters we've been seeing to prove a point rubs me the wrong way though.

Take this quote:

Sure, you’re probably over-catered for if you like, say, cynical young guys with buzzcuts and tribal tattoos, or grizzled cops/soldiers/space marines with gigantic chips on their muscular shoulders.

I thought the issue was lack of personality? How are fans of muscular soldiers/space marines over-catared when this is about finding characters that are "inteligently written" and 99% of the characters that fit this stereotype are absolutely terrible?

To reiterate, I obviously agree that more good characters is always a good thing, I just don't agree that the number of actual great characters is as lopsided to the male gender as this article implies.
Her boyfriend could easily have a list as big as hers and with even better written characters to boot.

 

[……forgetit]

I think everyone in this thread needs to stop for a moment and just go play Senran Kagura. Shinovi Versus, especially.

There's 20+ girls and I "fancy" most of them. Not because they are sexy or whatever but because they are cool and fun characters and certainly not lacking in personality.

Yeah.......no, game gives me the skeevies.

 

[Slayven]

Sounds to me like her fella wisely ducked a loaded question. That dress looks great on you and I don't fancy anyone unless they have an amazing personality like you dear. No I wasn't looking at her breasts, merely admiring that lovely brooch she had.

Pretty much, he knew if he said something out of pocket he would have to stop playing the game and have a long talk.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Jodie Holmes is good at equations and stuff.

 

[stuminus3]

To the people thinking the guy in OP dodged a loaded question... let me ask you, are there any female characters you'd fancy being in a relationship with? I don't mean a one night stand, I mean someone you could spend a sizable portion of your time with and think you'd enjoy their company... I can't think of too many personally.

Being Cate Archer's other half would be super cool!

 

[Yeul]

When you discover some people aren't going to react like you do you'd understand how some questions absolutely need to be deflected.

Oh I'm perfectly aware of this. But I'm talking about this specific instance. She's a journalist and her intentions to write an article about this topic were probably there from the beginning in some way, shape or form. I feel like there must have been more to the conversation than her boyfriend saying "nope can't think of any". Like I said, out of the games she listed, he couldn't think of any at all? Even to aid the discussion? In this case dodging a question just causes everyone to start listing out characters and miss/distract from the general point she's making.

 

[QaaQer]

It sounds like the dude lied and did the self preservation exercise all married men do when asked if they think any other women are attractive. I think most women know men are lying except this woman who wrote the article.

Women really don't want to know what goes in the heads of men. I'd link to a Louis CK comedy bit, but I can't be arsed to find it.

 

[psylah]

I would have answered Maiden in Black.

It's the accent.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Women really don't want to know what goes in the heads of men. I'd link to a Louis CK comedy bit, but I can't be arsed to find it.

You love your stereotypes.

Fury road is great, but it is still weird that in a movie where fertility is the main theme, the prized women are stick thin, narrow hipped supermodels who probably have irregular menstrual cycles.

Mad Max isn't about fertility. It's about masculine commodification of women as a means to perpetuate themselves. That's why the wives are all supermodels. They represent a flawed ideal beheld by flawed men.

 

[so1337]

I would have answered Maiden in Black.

Her presence somehow soothes.

 

[Yoda]

If said depiction suits the story sure. If its purely to try an make video games a "reflection of society" then no. Entertainment products =/= a place to promote morals.

 

[Jathaine]

Oh I'm perfectly aware of this. But I'm talking about this specific instance. She's a journalist and her intentions to write an article about this topic were probably there from the beginning in some way, shape or form. I feel like there must have been more to the conversation than her boyfriend saying "nope can't think of any". Like I said, out of the games she listed, he couldn't think of any at all? Even to aid the discussion? In this case dodging a question just causes everyone to start listing out characters and miss/distract from the general point she's making.

Maybe that's because the general point she's making isn't based in reality..? There's quite a few well-written females out there. Some sexy, some not. Probably just as many as there are male characters.

I'm not really sure what the big deal is.