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[Elios83]

With Scorpio it remains to be seen how much the system will be like the Pro conceptually. With Pro a lot of efforts at a design level went into not disrupting the PS4 ecosystem and make patching really easy for developers.
If Microsoft drops the One name, the first exclusive titles are announced claiming that they truly wanted to showcase what the system can do but 90% of the lineup will still be shared and the hardware architecture is completely different without esram and maybe a different CPU core, it won't be like the Pro at all. It will be a new console.
It all depends on how many promises Microsoft has made will be kept eventually, we simply don't know right now
IMO it will depend a lot on the success of the product, if they see demand for Xbox One collapsing and a strong interest in the Scorpio, give it a year and they will totally focus on Scorpio forgetting about everthing they promised at E3 2016 just like the did with Kinect.

 

[Aceofspades]

People need to understand that the PS4 pro is just a PS4. Nothing more, nothing less. The Scorpio is not XBO. It's a new gen for Microsoft and they will ditch the XBO once the Scorpio drops. It's Microsoft we are talking about here. People who are stating or believing otherwise don't seem to understand what they have been doing all the years they have been in the console business

Its not a new gen, and if it magically was.. Then its a very weak upgrade. GPU is just 40% more powerful than supposedly previous gen PRO.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Oh, so you are talking about speculation about Scorpio not at all based on facts?

That is a totally different discussion that ton of people would be happy to engage in with you.

Although I must say an NPD thread probably isn't the best place to discuss hopes, dreams and pixie dust 😉

Well, we do. It actually have any real facts about Scorpio besides some forum threads looking down upon other products as they apparently do. It match what Scorpio provides today .

 

[Kleegamefan]

Its not a new gen, and if it magically was.. Then its a very weak upgrade. GPU is just 40% more powerful than supposedly previous gen PRO.

True, but 6TF is still 5X OG Xbox One, which in turn is also 5X Xbox 360.

This is why some believe Scorpio will be a new generation because ofc history is destined to repeat itself.

 

[Liabe Brave]

An my point that even strong brands can be burned by bad marketing.

Of course we don't know the future, but our lack of knowledge isn't a basis for making any prediction we feel like. Projections, to be reasonable, must be based on what we know from the past. And as even you pointed out, we know Sony has weathered bouts of bad marketing multiple times before. They've been making consoles for 22 years, and during that time only a single device has outsold Sony's worst-selling offering--just one machine, from all their competition combined over two decades.

 

[Rikimaru82]

Oh, so you are talking speculation about Scorpio not at all based on facts?

That is a totally different discussion that tons of people would be happy to engage in with you.

Although I must say an NPD thread probably isn't the best place to discuss hopes, dreams and pixie dust 😉

There are no facts about the Scorpio other than it's in the making . 6 TB? It could still change...

I do agree a NPD thread is not the best place for that, it just happens that the discussion happens to be be in a NPD thread 🙈

 

[Rikimaru82]

Its not a new gen, and if it magically was.. Then its a very weak upgrade. GPU is just 40% more powerful than supposedly previous gen PRO.

So are the PS4 and XBO

 

[Norse]

The PS4 Simply has the vest lineup if games of thw two next gen systems.

Spoiler

and the vest hardware for now

Hope that vest keeps you warm this winter. ;-)


If the 67k is correct for psvr for November, is that considered bomba by NeoGAF standards? It surprises me nobody has talked about that.

 

[Norse]

True, but 6TF is still 5X OGXbox One, which in turn is also 5X Xbox 360.

This is why some believe Scorpio will be a new generation because ofc history is destined to repeat itself.

Not new gen per say, but next gen xbone it will be.

 

[Norse]

Fair point, but you miss the point that my interpitation is based on what MS have been doing in the past. Not only with Xbox, but also with their Windows platform.

If they do keep their word than I would be happy for all the XBO owners as they won't be left behind.

Left behind? How so? 360 had some BC for Xbox, xbone plays 300 360 games via BC, is windows vista what you mean by windows platform?

Games are still being made for ps3 and 360.

Does ps3 play ps2 games you already own? Does ps4 play the ps3 games you already own?

So who left who behind again?

 

[Kleegamefan]

With Scorpio it remains to be seen how much the system will be like the Pro conceptually. With Pro a lot of efforts at a design level went into not disrupting the PS4 ecosystem and make patching really easy for developers.
If Microsoft drops the One name, the first exclusive titles are announced claiming that they truly wanted to showcase what the system can do but 90% of the lineup will still be shared and the hardware architecture is completely different without esram and maybe a different CPU core, it won't be like the Pro at all. It will be a new console.
It all depends on how many promises Microsoft has made will be kept eventually, we simply don't know right now
IMO it will depend a lot on the success of the product, if they see demand for Xbox One collapsing and a strong interest in the Scorpio, give it a year and they will totally focus on Scorpio forgetting about everthing they promised at E3 2016 just like the did with Kinect.

Microsoft is positioning Scorpio as a premium Xbox, which again, they have gone on record saying and mirrors PS4 Pro position in the marketplace.

The actual hardware beyond the Scorpio abstraction layer matters little since Xbox games now run on Universal Windows Platform. UWP can, for instance, run Forza Horizon 3 on a PC with an Intel CPU and nVidia GPU. This is much,much further away from Xbox One hardware than Scorpio is likely to be.

Hardware doesn't matter. What matters is what is available to customers at retail. If the hardware is different and faster but the game are the same, it's not a new generation. If the Xbox One S played exclusive games, that would be a new generation .

The performance delta between consoles are irrelevant. The retail positioning of the games is the only thing that matters.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Hardware doesn't matter. What matters is what is available to customers at retail. If the hardware is different and faster but the game are the same, it's not a new generation. If the Xbox One S played exclusive games, that would be a new generation .

The performance delta between consoles are irrelevant. The retail positioning of the games is the only thing that matters.

I agree. Trying to differentiate oneself by delivering a much stronger hardware comes at a price - literally - and is jeopardized by diminishing returns anyhow. In the future, content, features and services will become the only relevant differentiators. And for many, they already are.

 

[Rikimaru82]

Left behind? How so? 360 had some BC for Xbox, xbone plays 300 360 games via BC, is windows vista what you mean by windows platform?

Games are still being made for ps3 and 360.

Does ps3 play ps2 games you already own? Does ps4 play the ps3 games you already own?

So who left who behind again?

My PS2 plays my PS2 games. My PS3 plays my PS3 games. I do not need my PS4 to play them. I still love hooking up my SNES and N64 to play some games. Does BC stand for not leaving anybody behind? It's about the players who do not have the new consoles . PS3 got GT6 while the PS4 came out. What did X360 get when the XBO hit the market? Fifa? Fifa could still be being made for the PS2 so that's not what I mean. And yes, I meant Vista, Win7, 8, 10 etc by windows platform

 

[dead souls]

Xbone will most likely barely pass 40 if MS is lucky.

Sure but when you factor in the unassailable fact that like 90% of my friends purchase digital consoles that means MS will move ~400 million XB1s.

That's a truly impressive total.

 

[Aceofspades]

So are the PS4 and XBO

Nobody ever said that PS4 is a gen above XB1.

 

[hanspampel]

My PS2 plays my PS2 games. My PS3 plays my PS3 games. I do not need my PS4 to play them. I still love hooking up my SNES and N64 to play some games. Does BC stand for not leaving anybody behind? It's about the players who do not have the new consoles . PS3 got GT6 while the PS4 came out. What did X360 get when the XBO hit the market? Fifa? Fifa could still be being made for the PS2 so that's not what I mean. And yes, I meant Vista, Win7, 8, 10 etc by windows platform

the ps3 was dead for sony as soon as they realized the ps4 would be a huge success.

xb360 got titanfall, forza horizon 2 and rise of the tomb raider several years into the new gen. what big high profile game got the ps3? i don't remember any game from sony, beside lbp 3

and some (probably the most) people prefer not having 10 different devices connected to their tv

 

[benny_a]

xb360 got titanfall, forza horizon 2 and rise of the tomb raider several years into the new gen. what big high profile game got the ps3? i don't remember any game from sony, beside lbp 3

You mentioned one game each from each manufacturer.

 

[Detective]

My PS2 plays my PS2 games. My PS3 plays my PS3 games. I do not need my PS4 to play them. I still love hooking up my SNES and N64 to play some games. Does BC stand for not leaving anybody behind? It's about the players who do not have the new consoles . PS3 got GT6 while the PS4 came out. What did X360 get when the XBO hit the market? Fifa? Fifa could still be being made for the PS2 so that's not what I mean. And yes, I meant Vista, Win7, 8, 10 etc by windows platform

You just claimed that Scorpio is a new gen. Even though MS them self said its the same as X1, So you pulled that out of your imagination.

And then you stated that your happy if Xbox owners won't be left behind, left behind in what way exactly? There is already BC since the first Xbox and there is forward compatible now moving forward and not to mention same accessories.

So how are they left behind when they get to keep their own games and accessories?

So what's your point here ?

 

[DieH@rd]

Sure but when you factor in the unassailable fact that like 90% of my friends purchase digital consoles that means MS will move ~400 million XB1s.

That's a truly impressive total.

I also forgot that Xbox One is a working man's console.

 

[hanspampel]

You mentioned one game each from each manufacturer.

i mentioned big games, that got released on xb360 and not ps3.
but yeah. better lets not start a list war here

 

[onQ123]

Nobody ever said that PS4 is a gen above XB1.

I think he/she was saying that Xbox One & PS4 was weak upgrades to the last generation.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Not new gen per say, but next gen xbone it will be.

Yes. Now THIS I can get behind. I find it much more likely future Xboxen will slowly iterate indefinitely (the iPhone model) with customers migrating their Xbox profiles and software forward to the next Xbox hardware when it suits them comfortably.

I firmly believe this future reality is the Microsoft Store/Universal Windows Platform raison d'etre

With this single pivot, Microsoft can stave off Sony and Steam in one fell swoop.

OTOH, I think Sony is more likely to make a clean break and introduce a PS5 when the time is good for them. This is why you see such a conceptual contrast between MS and Sony treatment of their own 1st party games.

During the beginning of a generation Sony HAS NO GAMEZ because they have a massive investment in World Wide Studios. They prefer to allow their 3rd party partners take the lead the first few years on their new console, giving Sony time to create the Horizons, Gran Turismos and God of Wars.

Problem for Microsoft is it took Sony years and millions if not billions of dollars to build WWS into what it is today. I believe Microsoft would like to not copy Sonys model of dozens of games, but rather have a few strong, proven IPs they can more easily iterate on and then migrate on to the next Xbox hardware.

It's a strategy that's not better or worse, just different.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

My PS2 plays my PS2 games. My PS3 plays my PS3 games. I do not need my PS4 to play them. I still love hooking up my SNES and N64 to play some games. Does BC stand for not leaving anybody behind? It's about the players who do not have the new consoles . PS3 got GT6 while the PS4 came out. What did X360 get when the XBO hit the market? Fifa? Fifa could still be being made for the PS2 so that's not what I mean. And yes, I meant Vista, Win7, 8, 10 etc by windows platform

Think big, think "eco-system". Think of those ~25mn PS+ subscribers. Think of their digital games library, bought and PS+ games.

If you could keep and play all those games seamlessly on your PS5, this would be a major asset. If not, they might piss of huge parts of their customer base.

Please keep in mind that thanks to experiences with the Amazon, Apple or Google store, people are used to be able to use their purchased apps and games on their new device nowadays.

 

[Hawk269]

With Scorpio it remains to be seen how much the system will be like the Pro conceptually. With Pro a lot of efforts at a design level went into not disrupting the PS4 ecosystem and make patching really easy for developers.
If Microsoft drops the One name, the first exclusive titles are announced claiming that they truly wanted to showcase what the system can do but 90% of the lineup will still be shared and the hardware architecture is completely different without esram and maybe a different CPU core, it won't be like the Pro at all. It will be a new console.
It all depends on how many promises Microsoft has made will be kept eventually, we simply don't know right now
IMO it will depend a lot on the success of the product, if they see demand for Xbox One collapsing and a strong interest in the Scorpio, give it a year and they will totally focus on Scorpio forgetting about everthing they promised at E3 2016 just like the did with Kinect.

The rumored specs that have been going around are at least 12gb of RAM and a much beefier CPU. This is a stark difference from what Sony has done with the PS4 PRO. While Sony has allocated an extra 512mb for PRO games, if the Scorpio has 12gb of RAM, we can see up to 8.5gb available to games.

So to your point, Scorpio can be much different than what Sony has done, but if they want to keep the promise of all games running on Scorpio, the CPU solution will need to be something that is easy for them to have all original Xbox One games and assuming 360BC running as well. I am no engineer or programmer, but I would assume using a different CPU would cause some issues that perhaps they are able to fix via Software, much like the BC 360 program.

 

[Rikimaru82]

You just claimed that Scorpio is a new gen. Even though MS them self said its the same as X1, So you pulled that out of your imagination.

And then you stated that your happy if Xbox owners won't be left behind, left behind in what way exactly? There is already BC since the first Xbox and there is forward compatible now moving forward and not to mention same accessories.

So how are they left behind when they get to keep their own games and accessories?

So what's your point here ?

You are talking about the new gen adaptors whwre I'm talking about the old gen adaptors. The old gen adaptors who are left behind

 

[Rikimaru82]

Think big, think "eco-system". Think of those ~25mn PS+ subscribers. Think of their digital games library, bought and PS+ games.

If you could keep and play all those games seamlessly on your PS5, this would be a major asset. If not, they might piss of huge parts of their customer base.

Please keep in mind that thanks to experiences with the Amazon, Apple or Google store, people are used to be able to use their purchased apps and games on their new device nowadays.

O I agree it is great to be able to play all my games on one system, but I do not buy a new system to play my old games. I have my old system to do that. I buy a new system to play games which are not possible on my old system

 

[Kleegamefan]

The rumored specs that have been going around are at least 12gb of RAM and a much beefier CPU. This is a stark difference from what Sony has done with the PS4 PRO. While Sony has allocated an extra 512mb for PRO games, if the Scorpio has 12gb of RAM, we can see up to 8.5gb available to games.

So to your point, Scorpio can be much different than what Sony has done, but if they want to keep the promise of all games running on Scorpio, the CPU solution will need to be something that is easy for them to have all original Xbox One games and assuming 360BC running as well. I am no engineer or programmer, but I would assume using a different CPU would cause some issues that perhaps they are able to fix via Software, much like the BC 360 program.

Scorpio could have an i7 as long as hypervizor can be emulated......which can and will be the case....this is specifically why Universal Windows Platform was created and why all MGS software will run on UWP.

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

xbox one will easily reach 50m lifetime sales.
likely 100m+ with the generationless approach

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

This fucking guy


Xbone and scorpio together won't even hit 50 million

 

[justsomeguy]

Last time I checked it was MS who said it's up to the developers how they bring out their games. Could be I missed something, but until MS proves me otherwise I will stick to what I believe MS will do. I base that on their past actions

No, they said it's up to developers how they use Scorpio power - 4k or a super hype 1080p for example.

 

[Kleegamefan]

O I agree it is great to be able to play all my games on one system, but I do not buy a new system to play my old games. I have my old system to do that. I buy a new system to play games which are not possible on my old system

It will be a combination of both. Think iPhone 4->iPhone 7.

iOS 10 runs on iPhone 5 and up. You can bring your old ass apps forward but the old hardware is eliminated via OS requirements.

Future Xboxs will be like this, I bet.

 

[Hawk269]

Scorpio could have an i7 as long as hypervizor can be emulated......which can and will be the case....this is specifically why Universal Windows Platform was created and why all MGS software will run on UWP.

As I said, I am no engineer nor do I have the tech knowledge to know or clearly understand what hypervisor is. But I will leave that to smarter people like you to explain this stuff. I am assuming that it would be easy for them to emulate the Jaguar with a stronger CPU to make things all work. Just wondering why Sony did not take this route and at least go with something a little stronger than what a simple overclock would do. When the rumors of a possible $499 PRO with a better CPU was going around it was making me a bit more excited. I am happy with my PRO as is, but still would of preferred a better CPU even it would of added to the cost.

 

[The Mad Draklor]

Why is there so much Scorpio talk in an NPD thread?

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Why is there so much Scorpio talk in an NPD thread?

Kinda like in sports when you say "wait until next year."

With the lack of numbers there really isn't too much discuss.

 

[Gragen]

Probably said, but I think most months that Xbox wins are due to current ps4 owners buying a one. I was one of them when slim released.

 

[Kleegamefan]

As I said, I am no engineer nor do I have the tech knowledge to know or clearly understand what hypervisor is. But I will leave that to smarter people like you to explain this stuff. I am assuming that it would be easy for them to emulate the Jaguar with a stronger CPU to make things all work. Just wondering why Sony did not take this route and at least go with something a little stronger than what a simple overclock would do. When the rumors of a possible $499 PRO with a better CPU was going around it was making me a bit more excited. I am happy with my PRO as is, but still would of preferred a better CPU even it would of added to the cost.

I guess I should clarify that although I believe Scorpio will be like a PS4 Pro I also believe MS/Sony long term strategy are different.

Scorpio and Pro might be the same but the next round of hardware after that is where they will diverge.

IMO, PS5 will be a clean break with backwards compatibility.

Xbox Scorpio Pro will not only be iterative, but it should also play UMP mobile, Xbox One and PC software via cross buy at the Microsoft Store. Again IMO.

 

[Mrbob]

I firmly believe this future reality is the Microsoft Store/Universal Windows Platform raison d'etre

With this single pivot, Microsoft can stave off Sony and Steam in one fell swoop.

OTOH, I think Sony is more likely to make a clean break and introduce a PS5 when the time is good for them. This is why you see such a conceptual contrast between MS and Sony treatment of their own 1st party

MS is getting their butts kicked on both fronts(PS4 on console, Steam on PC). I'm not seeing the scenario where MS is gaining marketshare against PlayStation or Steam anytime soon. MS spent too long in setting up a unified platform, so I think that ship has sailed. Regarding PS5, I expect it to be fully BC with PS4 so I don't see this clean break so to speak.

Edit:. You can add mobile too if you want as a third front they are getting crushed in.

 

[AgentP]

Why is there so much Scorpio talk in an NPD thread?

It's their hope and Savior. NPD 2018 comeback time!

 

[Kleegamefan]

MS is getting their butts kicked on both fronts(PS4 on console, Steam on PC). I'm not seeing the scenario where MS is gaining marketshare against PlayStation or Steam anytime soon. MS spent too long in setting up a unified platform, so I think that ship has sailed. Regarding PS5, I expect it to be fully BC with PS4 so I don't see this clean break so to speak.

Edit:. You can add mobile too if you want as a third front they are getting crushed in.

Clean break in comparison to the fully iterative hw/sw model Microsoft is following.

They may be losing in the marketplace, but their only alternative is to unify all their platforms. If they don't do that, then they will exit the console business altogether.

Nobody wants to see that.

 

[Norse]

MS is getting their butts kicked on both fronts(PS4 on console, Steam on PC). I'm not seeing the scenario where MS is gaining marketshare against PlayStation or Steam anytime soon. MS spent too long in setting up a unified platform, so I think that ship has sailed. Regarding PS5, I expect it to be fully BC with PS4 so I don't see this clean break so to speak.

Edit:. You can add mobile too if you want as a third front they are getting crushed in.

Mobile you are correct.
Here in the US, ps4 has a 53/47% edge which isn't a butt kicking nor being crushed.
Steam store games run on Windows for the most part, yes?

Since you are a ps4 owner, does psvr 67k units in November mean it's doa? Or should we wait n see what December holds?

 

[AcademicSaucer]

Have they published the list of November best selling games?

 

[Thebeardofknowledge]

Why is there so much Scorpio talk in an NPD thread?

From reading the last 3 pages by only take away is that people are delusional As fuck. I mean you have 3 people who legit think the Xbone has a chance to reach 100 million.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Don't really believe these numbers, but if they are true then it sort of bodes well for Microsoft. Without the Pro it is unlikely Sony would have taken the month.

But those numbers...ugh. Not a great showing for either Sony or Microsoft considering it's a drop YoY.

Yeah but that's a bit like saying 'if Coca Cola didn't exist, Pepsi would be the biggest cola drink in the world'. Fact is the Pro is there. If it weren't, the strategy with the PS4 Slim would be different, or price would be different, or MS would have been less aggressive etc etc. Basically, that's a pointless way of looking at it.

 

[Mrbob]

I believe PS5 will be an iterative model too. I don't see any breaking of compatibility with PS4.

Mobile you are correct.
Here in the US, ps4 has a 53/47% edge which isn't a butt kicking nor being crushed.
Steam store games run on Windows for the most part, yes?

Since you are a ps4 owner, does psvr 67k units in November mean it's doa? Or should we wait n see what December holds?

I should have said I meant worldwide sales for ps4/xb1. Not commenting on Windows itself but just win 10 store vs steam. Ms should definitely be thankful to Valve...Steam kept the pc platform relevant while ms was floundering around with their pc support on og xbox and 360.

 

[michaelius]

I believe PS5 will be an iterative model too.

Yeah I'll be very surprised if it isn't - IMHO only difference will be that develops will be able to choose if they want to do PS5 only, PS5/PS4pro, PS5/PS4Pro/PS4 games unlike now where making Pro exclusives is not allowed.

 

[Norse]

Yeah but that's a bit like saying 'if Coca Cola didn't exist, Pepsi would be the biggest cola drink in the world'. Fact is the Pro is there. If it weren't, the strategy with the PS4 Slim would be different, or price would be different, or MS would have been less aggressive etc etc. Basically, that's a pointless way of looking at it.

Agree


We have no idea what either camp would have done differently had pro not arrived.

I like coke better in cans n bottles but prefer Pepsi from fountain drink stands. Just saying

 

[hanspampel]



This fucking guy


Xbone and scorpio together won't even hit 50 million

i'll take a $100k bet on that.
how certain are you with your claim?

xbox one will be above 25m at the end of this year. so just 25m more xbox one s, xbox scorpio and xbox scorpio s in the next 5 to 7 years


so i really don't know what should be in any way funny about that. i find your comment rather funny. and still i don't laught about it, because i'm well-educated

 

[onQ123]

True, but 6TF is still 5X OG Xbox One, which in turn is also 5X Xbox 360.

This is why some believe Scorpio will be a new generation because ofc history is destined to repeat itself.

6000/1311 = 4.57


1311/240 = 5.46



But also Xbox 360 to Xbox One is a lot bigger jump in technology than what Xbox One to Xbox Scorpio will be.

 

[SneakersSO]

True, but 6TF is still 5X OG Xbox One, which in turn is also 5X Xbox 360.

This is why some believe Scorpio will be a new generation because ofc history is destined to repeat itself.

I mean, people can say they believe its a new gen, but both MS themselves have stated it isn't/won't be, and as i've listed below, they don't have the 1st party man-power that isn't tied up with X1 development needed to support a new generation with exclusive software in order to help it sell.

Xbox fans just think a fresh start would be enough to get the brand back on top, when the reality is that a new generation would likely face a series of troubles X1 currently doesn't have.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

I'm not the first one who said this, even on previous page, but people still quoting only my post for some reasons. Guys, this is just my thought, and i didn't even said that it WILL definitely reach 100+ million copies sold, but there is always a chance that Microsoft will somehow turn things around, just like Sony did with PS3.

There was nothing to turn round. Launch aligned, the PS3 was selling just as much, if not more than the 360 straight out of the gate. It was never getting the thrashing that Microsoft is now.

 

[StrongBlackVine]

i'll take a $100k bet on that.
how certain are you with your claim?

xbox one will be above 25m at the end of this year. so just 25m more xbox one s, xbox scorpio and xbox scorpio s in the next 5 to 7 years


so i really don't know what should be in any way funny about that. i find your comment rather funny. and still i don't laught about it, because i'm well-educated

Another 25 million in the next 5 to 7 years? Xbox Scorpio S? Under this scenario it would be catastrophic if they couldn't hit 50 million. In next 3 years they will struggle struggle to hit 50 million which is probably what most have in my mind when they say this generation.